Sailing tips and advice

Chris Miller6 said:I'm looking to pick up a Nike 31 s
is anyone selling one?

The one currently listed in the ads? It's way overpriced....

If you actually saw her and got a taste, she wouldn't seem so expensive to you 🙂
The people who know her well, they say the same thing...

Chris Miller6 said:if you actually got a chance to see it and test it out, you wouldn't find the price too steep🙂
those who have spent time on her always say the same thing...

That boat is just getting too old... sure, you can refurbish it and pack it with new gear, but age eventually catches up with you.
As for me, I am planning on buying a vessel later this year, though I'm looking for something entirely different from a Nike 31.

Do you actually have a concrete plan in mind?

Chris Miller6 said:Do you have any specific plans for it?

Yes, T8sc... you can go check it out at the marina over in Ičićs.

Honestly, you’re basically looking for something just for everyday entertainment...
I figured you were after something on a much larger scale. It isn't bad, I guess. 🙂

Chris Miller6 said:So you're basically looking for something for everyday leisure...
I honestly thought you were hunting for something much larger. It's actually quite decent 🙂

It’s more than enough for a couple cruising along the Atlantic Ocean... it features an electric motor, solar panels, and a wind generator... essentially, it's time to ditch the diesel and gasoline once and for all 🙂

haha, looks more like some cheap pastries from Dunkin' 😁
It doesn't even look like it has a cab, but I've only seen pictures online, so I guess it's no surprise

Chris Miller6 said:haha, and don't forget the cheap pastries from the local bakery 😁
It doesn't look like there's much cabin space, but since I've only ever seen it online, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

There is definitely a cabin; four adults can sleep in there quite comfortably. There’s also a small kitchenette setup, and you could easily fit a portable toilet in there.

On a side note, I really dislike having internal combustion engines on sailboats. They are almost always the root cause of some headache that ruins an entire trip, regardless of whether the boat or the engine is brand new or old. For instance, just recently on a brand-new sailboat, they had installed this fancy new keyless ignition system (Caterpillar), and of course, the whole assembly failed by the second day. Since the unit is completely encased in epoxy, your only real option is to swap out the entire box. In the meantime, we were getting the engine started using nothing but a literal piece of wire...

The only times you actually need an engine on a sailboat are when you're trying to maneuver into a crowded marina or during a total dead calm—say, if you're trying to set a net or if you're genuinely in a hurry and there isn't a breath of wind. For those specific situations, an electric motor is far more practical, simpler, and reliable, plus you don't have to deal with the stench of diesel or gasoline.

hahaha, that’s basically my car—it runs on a key card, and heaven forbid the electronics actually fail. But hey, at least my car doesn't have sails...

I get it, though... in these last 14 or 15 years, we've died out three times too, but none of those instances had anything to do with the engine itself. Twice it was just human error, and the third one might have been linked to the motor—one wire shook loose from the terminal due to vibrations.
yanmar rules!!!
how's the sailing at Lake Central Park?

Chris Miller6 said:but I get it... we've had our power die on us three times over these last 14 or 15 years, but none of those instances were actually linked to the engine. Twice it was just human error, and the third time could potentially be tied to the motor—one wire shook loose from the terminal due to vibrations.
yanmar rules!!!
how's sailing at Lake Central Park?

As long as your mast is standing and you have sails, you can pretty much dock and set off almost anywhere.🙂

Central Park is great right now in the spring; there’s plenty of wind, and it often blows quite hard, but the summer tends to be pretty rough unless a light breeze happens to roll in. Finally, the days are getting longer now that Daylight Saving Time kicked in, so it's actually possible to get out for a sail after work.

Unfortunately, hardly anyone sails at Central Park anymore. A fair amount of the older crowd takes the Laser training courses, but very few of them stick around with the club. The club only has five old Lasers left in mediocre condition, though they're fine enough for lessons and just messing around. It would be fantastic if they could pick up another five boats to make racing more viable. But hey, we know how to pull off a match race once in a while, and that's always a blast in Lasers.

Back in 2005 and 2006, we used to run the Central Park Cup regularly... but that all fizzled out once there wasn't anyone left to push people to participate. If the club hired someone on a permanent basis, maybe the cup would get going again, because there would always be someone present at the club.

I've actually got a newer Laser coming this Saturday (finally bought one!), so I just need to polish it up and rig it up XD. Or maybe I'll look into some G-XD systems, and then perhaps I'll head out to the sea for a regatta if I can manage it.

Lately, I’ve been mulling over picking up a sailboat—something in the 20 to 26-foot range—equipped with a WCon and a six-bearing setup featuring a folding keel, mostly so I can actually get it on a trailer without losing my mind.
Does anyone here have actual hands-on experience with a setup like that, or maybe some solid recommendations?

Over here in the States, you see the Vika 25 being shoved down everyone's throat in ads all the time (looking at you, $15k base price before gear or tax), but there are plenty of cheaper Polish imports that haven't even hit our shores yet. Personally, I’ve got my eye on the TES 678. Or maybe a Viva 700, a Sasanka 660, a Corvette 650, a Twister 700 or 800, or those Raptor 26 and 27 models.

Anyone out there own something similar who could shed some light on this?

cosmicfox15 said:Lately, I've been thinking about picking up a sailboat in the 20-26 foot range equipped with a WCon and six berths, featuring a folding keel so I can tow it on a trailer.
Does anyone have experience with this kind of setup or any recommendations?

In the US, the Vika 25 is advertised quite a bit (around $15k excluding gear and taxes), but there are plenty of other, cheaper Polish boats that haven't even hit the American market yet. For example, I really like the TES 678. Or maybe the Viva 700, Sasanka 660, Corvette 650, Twister 700 and 800, or the Raptor 26 and 27, etc.

Can anyone with similar interests shed some light on this?

Why is it so important to have six berths? Are you planning on bringing a whole troop of kids along? 🙂 Honestly, six berths is just overkill for any sailboat under 30 feet, or even slightly above that.

Everything you mentioned is relatively similar, though the Raptors might offer a slightly more modern design (but they are heavy). As for those Vika 25 boats, looking at the photos and specs, I’m not particularly impressed; it feels more like a toy than a real sailboat. Everything else you listed is a much better choice.

The main issue with these types of boats is that people try to cram too many berths and living amenities into a relatively small hull. This inevitably makes them heavy, sluggish, and frankly, boring to sail.
On top of that, they end up being too heavy to tow with a standard car, so you'll need something with decent pulling power and weight.

Simply put, a short waterline combined with high weight is a major limitation—top speeds usually hover around 5-6 knots in ideal conditions. You might get one of them to plane down a wave occasionally, but don't expect miracles. In light winds or when the swells pick up, these boats are just miserable.

In this category, the best sailboat ever built (performance-wise) is probably the Hunter Sonata, but unfortunately, they haven't been making them for a long time. They are still very popular in Britain and live on as an one-design class. You can find them used at great prices. They handle beautifully in a regatta, though they aren't exactly known for planing downwind.

The International H-boat is also worth considering; even though the interior space is tighter, it sails exceptionally well in both light air and heavy wind or waves.

Of course, if all you need is a boat for short hops from island to island and speed isn't your priority, then everything you mentioned is fine. At that point, it’s just about the price and making sure your wife likes it.🙂

If I were in your shoes looking for a boat like that, I’d look for something with a maximum weight of around 2,600 lbs, a wide and flat transom to allow for planing downwind, and naturally, a tall mast and plenty of sail area.🙂

If you have a bit more cash and are actually interested in sailing rather than just cruising, you might consider something ultra-light and fast, like the T8sc, which still offers a relatively comfortable stay for 3 or 4 people.

A test of the T8sc will be out on the sea and on the blog soon (), so I'll write up some thoughts on what matters most to me in these kinds of boats.

casualfox9 said:Why does it matter if you have six bearings? What, do you have a whole army of toddlers running around the house? 🙂 Six bearings is just overkill—honestly, it’s way too many for any sailboat under 30 feet, or even anything larger than that. It’s just unnecessary.

Everything you mentioned is pretty much in the same ballpark—maybe the Raptors offer a slightly more modern look, though they’re definitely a bit heavy for my liking. As for that Vika 25, looking at the specs and the photos... honestly, I'm not feeling it. It feels more like a toy than an actual sailboat. Everything else you brought up to the table is a much better call.

The fundamental issue with boats like these—and I really mean this—is that people try to cram an absurd amount of berths and living space into a relatively small hull. It’s a classic mistake. You end up with a vessel that’s heavy, sluggish, and honestly just plain boring to actually sail. You lose all the soul of the boat when you turn it into a floating apartment complex.
Second off—and this is just common sense if you've ever actually tried it—they’re way too heavy to haul around behind a standard sedan or some basic commuter car. You really need something with actual muscle under the hood... something beefy and substantial that can handle the weight without breaking a sweat.

It’s pretty straightforward—you’ve got a short waterline paired with massive weight, which basically acts as a built-in speed limiter. You're looking at top speeds of maybe 5 or 6 knots under perfect conditions, tops. Sure, maybe one of them will skim a bit faster down a swell if the stars align, but let's not go expecting any miracles here. In light wind? Forget about it. Big waves? They’re practically useless.

If we’re talking about that specific category, you’re probably looking at the Hunter Sonata as the absolute GOAT—at least when it comes to actual sailing performance—but unfortunately, they haven't been in production for ages now. They’re still massive over in Britain, though, mostly because they've basically become a staple one-design class there. You can actually snag a used one for a steal if you know where to look. They absolutely crush it in match racing, but—and this is the big "but"—they just don't have that tendency to plane when you're running downwind.

The International H-boat is actually pretty interesting—I mean, sure, you aren’t exactly living in a mansion once you step inside, and the cabin space is definitely on the tighter side—but man, does it move. It handles like a dream regardless of whether you're just cruising on a light breeze or battling heavy winds and choppy waves out on the sea. It just works.

Look, if all you want is a little boat to hop between islands for short trips—and you couldn't care less about actual sailing speed—then yeah, everything you mentioned is totally fine. At that point, it really just boils down to two things: how much it’s going to cost you and whether or not your wife actually likes the look of it. 🙂

If I were looking to pick up a sailboat like that—I mean, if I were actually pulling the trigger—I’d be hunting for something with a max weight of around 1,200 kg. You need that wide, flat transom, too... something that actually lets you plane downwind instead of just fighting the waves all day. And obviously, you can't skimp on the rig—give me a massive mast and plenty of sail area, or don't bother. 🙂

If you’ve got a bit of extra cash burning a hole in your pocket—and more importantly, if you actually care about real sailing rather than just drifting aimlessly around a harbor—you might want to start looking at something ultra-light and seriously fast. Take the T8sc, for instance. It’s a different beast entirely, but honestly, it still manages to be relatively comfortable enough to host three or four people without feeling like you're camping on a raft.

The T8sc test results are dropping soon—both out on the water and over on the blog. Stay tuned.http://sailing.bloger.com...so, I’m going to lay out a few things that actually matter to me when it comes to these kinds of sailboats—you know, the stuff people usually overlook while they're busy obsessing over the shiny bits.

We can talk if you're down.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Honestly, I’m on the exact same page—I need something that lets me just wander from cove to cove and take a dip whenever the mood strikes. And look, we definitely need those six berths. My family is a 2+2 setup, and let's be real, being stuck alone on a boat is just plain boring. It really ought to have enough room to squeeze in a few more friends too, whether they're adults or just kids running around.
So, I’ve got this Santa Fe—solid enough to pull about 5,500 lbs—and right now I’m eye-balling this used 5,500 lb trailer sitting there for around $2,500. My main hurdle? I really need to go out and get my BE license first. Once that's sorted, I'll be cleared to tow anything up to about 4,200 lbs, provided the width stays under that 82-inch limit. Honestly, if I don't play this smart, I'll end up stuck dealing with those absolute nightmare permits that run you an extra $650 or so. That's why I'm already ruling out the Twister, the Raptor, and the Tango—just too much headache for what it is.

Look, I don't really care if a boat is heavy or slow—that’s just how things are sometimes—but what would actually kill me is if she's tossing and turning too much in the chop. I'm not entirely sure how those smaller sailboats handle the swell, but I'm really hoping they perform better than the big cruisers. Honestly, just thinking about spending a few hours tossing and hauling lines on one of those massive yachts... that alone would absolutely break me.
It’s not even the same story when you're talking about sailboats. Even though they're small, they carry a heavy keel—so there's that. What do you reckon?
To be honest, I find the Vika a bit underwhelming too. My eyes are really set on the TES 678, but man, that price tag is steep, and sometimes the build quality feels a little flimsy compared to others. I might pull the trigger on a used TES for around $15k, but I haven't made up my mind yet. What's your take? From what I can tell, that specific one looks solid—it was built by this charter company that actually has TES manufacture boats for both their own fleet and for retail.

cosmicfox15 said:We can do that if you're down.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Everything you mentioned resonates with me; I really just need something suitable for cruising from cove to cove and getting some swimming in. It absolutely has to have six berths because my family is a group of four, and honestly, it gets pretty lonely being out on the water by ourselves. Ideally, there should be enough room to host a few more friends, whether they're adults or kids.
Regarding the towing situation, I currently drive a Santa Fe which has a 2,400 lb capacity, and I’m looking at picking up a used 2,500 lb trailer for about $2,500. My main hurdle is getting my BE license first. Once I have that, I’ll be able to tow everything up to roughly 4,000 lbs, provided the width stays under 8.4 feet. Otherwise, I’d have to deal with those ridiculous $650 permits. That’s why the Twister, Raptor, and Tango are off the table for me.

Look, I don't mind if the sailboat is heavy or a bit slow, but I would definitely struggle if it was constantly bouncing around in the waves. I'm not entirely sure how these smaller sailboats handle, but I'm hoping they perform better than powerboats. Honestly, spending hours hauling anchors on a powerboat would drive me absolutely insane.
It's actually not like that on sailboats. Even though they're small, they carry a heavy keel. Don't you agree???
By the way, I find the Viko a bit uninspiring too. My top choice is the TES 678, but it's significantly more expensive and sometimes feels less robustly built. I might try to hunt down a used TES for around $15,500, but I haven't made up my mind yet. What's your take? From what I've seen, it looks like high-quality work produced by a charter company that builds TES models for their own fleet and for resale.

Any sailboat is bound to be more comfortable than a powerboat. 🙂😁

The issue with a smaller sailboat comes down to the chop... it certainly won't be "comfortable," but as long as you have wind in the sails, you can manage.

I don't know much about TES specifically. It might be best to search online for something like "TES 678 owners or reviews..." If I spoke Polish, I'd probably dig through some Polish forums to see what people are saying.

If I were choosing a boat like that, I'd personally go for a Hunter Sonata if I could find a decent used one in good condition. You get less space than the TES, but the sailing performance is incomparable.
A friend of mine recently bought an H-boat; he might bring it over to the States sometime, so I'll try to get some sailing time in on it.

casualfox9 said:Any sailboat is obviously going to be more comfortable than a powerboat, 🙂😁but let's be real...

The issue with a small sailboat comes down to the swells—it definitely won't be "comfortable," but as long as you've got wind in the sails, you can manage to survive.

I don't know the first thing about TES—honestly, your best bet is probably just scouring the web for "TES 678 owners" or some kind of review... if I actually spoke Polish, I might try digging through some Polish forums, but I'm out of luck there.

If I were actually pulling the trigger on a boat like that, I’d probably aim for a Hunter Sonata—find a decent used one in good shape. It’ll have less space than the TES, sure, but the sailing performance is incomparable.
A buddy of mine recently picked up an H-boat, and he might tow it over to the States once or twice, so I'll probably get a chance to take her out.

Actually, you're spot on. On smaller waves, the sailing motion helps dampen the mass—even if it does heel the boat over. And honestly, I wouldn't even consider taking a boat like this into heavy swells anyway.
I once had a dream about an 8-meter sailboat weighing about 7,700 lbs, and it felt completely stable. These American boats are usually closer to 3,300 lbs—not that I could even haul them otherwise.
Does the Hunter have a swing keel? Because if it doesn't, it's off the table.
By the way, TES owners are almost better organized than the actual sales department. There's a site, www.tes-freunde.de, but they seem way more focused on technical specs than actual sailing or how the thing handles in a chop. Besides, most of those people haven't even seen a real wave since they spend all their time on lakes.

cosmicfox15 said:You’re absolutely right there. On smaller waves, the rolling motion actually helps offset the weight of the sails, even if it does heel the boat over. As for heavy swells, I haven't even considered that possibility.
I once had a dream of sailing an 8-meter sailboat weighing about 7,700 lbs, and it felt incredibly stable. These Polish boats, though, are only around 3,300 lbs—otherwise, I wouldn't even be able to tow one.
Does the Hunter have a lifting keel? Because if it doesn't, it's out of the question.
By the way, the TES owners are almost better organized than the sales department. There's a site, for example, www.tes-freunde.de, but they seem more focused on the technical specs of the boat rather than actual sailing or handling swells. Besides, not many people over there can speak to that, since they mostly sail on lakes and probably haven't even seen a real swell.

The Hunter Sonata was designed with both fixed and lifting keels, so you should take a closer look at the details here:
http://www.sonata.org.uk/about/index.php

The issue, however, is that it utilizes four bearings.

Hey there, fellow sailors;
So, I’m heading out on a sailing trip with my crew next week, and I wanted to pick your brains. For those of you who've actually experienced that—you know, that "once-in-a-lifetime" feeling people always talk about—any tips? What should I pack? How should I dress so I'm actually comfortable out there instead of miserable?

jadescout56 said:Hey there, fellow sailors;
I’m heading out on a sailing trip with some friends next week, and I would love to get some advice from those of you who have experienced that—as many describe it—truly once-in-a-lifetime feeling. What should I pack? What kind of clothing will keep me most comfortable out on the water?

Grab some technical sailing pants and a weather-resistant jacket... that’s your foundation. Beyond that, here is what you'll need:
- Deck shoes or non-slip sneakers
- Waterproof boots
- Sailing gloves
- Sunglasses
- Sunscreen
- A warm tracksuit, plenty of socks, and a few extra T-shirts

That should cover it...