Best offshore sportsbooks for online betting?

Man, they’ve actually started dodging payouts. A buddy of mine tried to cash out and sent over his ID, but then they hit him with this ridiculous runaround asking for a passport or a driver's license. He told them five different times he doesn't have either one, so they pull the "send us a scan of your health insurance card" move. He scans the damn thing, and they just tell him, "Nah, we don't accept those." It was a total headache, honestly. After fifteen days of constant back-and-forth and playing games, they finally dropped the money 👎

Just set up a PayPal account and toss about ten bucks in there. Then, you can just pull that ten back into PayPal along with your fifty, and either send it straight to your verified bank account or just keep it sitting in your balance

Terry Edwards6 said:There isn't a tax on online sportsbooks, just the brick-and-mortar ones. Personally, I think DraftKings is the way to go for singles, maybe FanDuel too.

Actually, DraftKings takes that premium fee themselves, not the government.

I was trying to get my payout from DraftKings, and they started asking for ID copies. First, I sent over my driver's license, then a few days later they hit me up saying they needed my passport too (WTF???). So I send that, and now they just say it's "under review"... It’s been 4 or 5 days since I sent the passport and still nothing. Total time since I requested the withdrawal? About a week. Seriously, what the hell are they doing? Is this even normal? Who do I contact if they try to screw me over? Starting to get really worried about my money...

👎

crimsonsailor0 said:I’ve been trying to get a payout from DraftKings, and the whole process has been a complete headache. First, they asked me to upload my ID. I did that, only to have them hit me up a few days later saying they needed my driver's license too. Like, seriously? WTF? So, I sent over the license, and now they’re just telling me it’s "under review." It’s been about four or five days since I submitted the license, and I’m still sitting here waiting for my money with zero updates. In total, it’s been about a week since I first requested the withdrawal. Honestly, what are they even doing? Is this actually normal, or am I being played? Does anyone know who I should contact if they try to ghost me? I’m starting to get a little nervous about whether I'll ever see my money.

👎

Don't worry, you'll get your money eventually. By the way, how much are we talking about? Sometimes these places can be a little slow when it comes to processing payouts.

It’s not a huge amount, mostly under $167. Hopefully...

slywolf57 said:For those of you trading on E*TRADE, what's the deal with the Service Fee? If I'm getting this right, if I make more than 20% on my stake in a year, they hit me with a 20% tax? Am I on the right track?

So, I guess you didn't quite get it right; when you start out, E*TRADE takes a commission on every trade you make, which is about 5%, and that's just on your net profit. For example, if you put down $33 at odds of 1.70, your net profit is $23, and they take 5% of that, which is $1.25, so your payout ends up being $56, making your actual profit $22. Basically, as you pay commissions, you earn points—there's a chart that shows how it works—which helps lower that fee. Right now, my commission level is around 4.2%. You don't just get points when you win, though; you get them when you lose too. Like, if that bet above was a loser and you lost your 100 bucks, they’d calculate an "implied commission" and give you points for that. Also, your points drop by 15% every week due to "weekly decay," so I guess you have to keep playing to stay ahead.

Then there's the "Service Fee." E*TRADE basically looks at your total net profit for the year versus all the commissions you've paid (both direct and implied). If the commission you've paid is less than 20% of your net profit, they charge you the difference to bring it up to 20%. That's the Service Fee. Traders were pretty upset about it, though, because someone could be down one year and then huge the next, triggering the fee. So, E*TRADE changed it so they look at your lifetime performance instead of just annually.

From what I've read on various forums and blogs, maybe only 1% to 3% of users actually end up paying the Service Fee, since you have to be incredibly successful to hit that. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying it if I were actually making that much money! 😁 My advice is probably just not to worry about it; there's a slim chance you'll be that successful, and if you are, I guess you won't mind the cost! 😉

crimsonsailor0 said:It’s not exactly a massive amount—usually stays under $167. Fingers crossed..

They'll pay out eventually. Sometimes these things just drag on a bit longer than you'd like...

Carl Vaughn74 said:I know this question has probably been asked a bunch of times already, and I tried searching for it, but here we go...

Can anyone tell me about their experience with withdrawals from bwin??

It says I can use PayPal, but I don't really want to. I could use my Visa, though (do I need to have deposited from that same card first?) or maybe a wire transfer....

And what's the deal with wire transfers—which bank do they actually send it to??

As for my ID, I already sent them stuff before because there was some issue with identity verification, so everything should be fine on that front...

just go with PayPal don't even bother overcomplicating things, it's easily the best option for bwin and pretty much any other sportsbook

I hope my questions are appropriate for this discussion topic.

When people talk about online betting sites, are they specifically referring to platforms where you can actually buy and sell odds? ...Because if that isn't the case for all of them, what would be the more precise term for those that do allow that kind of trading?

It’s often mentioned that the odds tend to be higher on these specific types of online sites (referring to the ones with the buy/sell functionality)....Could anyone give me a rough estimate of just how much higher they really are? I happened to come across some comparisons on certain websites suggesting that an odd of around 4 at a standard sportsbook might climb as high as 12 over there.
However, I've only found comparisons regarding long shots or extreme outliers.....there seems to be nothing regarding the favorites.
What would a typical, non-extreme difference look like? For instance, if a certain price is sitting at 1.3 here in the States...what might that look like over there??

David Gomez6 said:People keep mentioning that odds are consistently higher at these online exchanges (I'm talking about the ones with peer-to-peer trading).... can anyone give me a realistic estimate of how much better they actually are? I stumbled upon some comparisons on a few sites where an underdog priced at 4 at a place like DraftKings jumps up to 12 over there....
But all those comparisons I found were just for long shots or extreme outliers... nothing for the favorites.
What’s the actual difference in a normal scenario—not an extreme one? Like, if a heavy favorite is sitting at 1.3 here, what would that look like on an exchange??

It fluctuates. They have a much wider spread of prices, so while the favorites stay pretty much the same, you see massive jumps on the underdogs. If you're hunting for upsets, that's where the real value lives.

And don't forget: even if the price looks identical or is just a couple of cents lower online, you're still winning because you aren't getting hit by the massive vig we deal with here. Online is almost always better.

Mark Kelly said:Do I actually need a steady job just to be able to withdraw using this card?
?

No, you don't. And honestly, you don't even need the card to make a deposit; you can just use PayPal or Neteller directly from your bank account through online banking. You just transfer the funds there, and those services basically act as your digital wallet for everything online.

Alexander Hill2 said:Varira. They offer a wider range of odds, so favorites usually stay pretty level while the underdogs get much higher payouts. If you're looking to back an upset, it’s definitely the better place to be...

And don't forget, if the odds match or are even just a penny lower than what you see online—considering we have such high margins here in the States—the online options will almost always be better.

If they are identical, does that mean they are actually tracking the price drops from the major sportsbooks?

They react way too fast to every little swing. Take the Spartans, for example. You see online blocks popping up, then a bit later you're seeing SS, while over in Germany, things could have still...

Wait a moment, I want to make sure we are on the same page here... I am referring to those platforms where users themselves offer and settle bets. (Back/Lay), or whatever the terminology might be today.
There is also a specific term used: odds distribution.

...for instance, who would actually stop me from continuing to offer a bet on a specific matchup if the platform decided to block that particular game??
Essentially, it would mean that even if a game is blocked, I could more easily sell off my position at a lower price once the odds have dropped.🤔??

Heh, I don't have the patience to mess around with time...

David Gomez6 said:There is some talk about how the odds tend to be slightly higher at these online sportsbooks (I am specifically asking about the ones that offer peer-to-peer betting mechanics)....

...hehe, no matter, thanks anyway!

...but that is precisely why I asked initially if all online books allow this, or just specific ones. Because, for instance, if I understood correctly, this E*TRADE platform mentioned allows it... yet it is still categorized simply as an online sportsbook 🤷

David Gomez6 said:Wait, just a second, are we even talking about the same thing? I mean those places where users actually set their own odds and pay each other out. Like, the Back/Lay stuff... or whatever you want to call it.

That’s basically not called a sportsbook, it’s an exchange, mostly because you can both "buy" and "sell" odds. Since you aren't playing against the house but against other traders, matches don't get blocked for those usual reasons—as long as someone actually wants to take your bet. E*TRADE is probably the biggest and best exchange out there, but I also have an account at www.wbx.com, which is pretty decent too; a lot of people swear by www.betdaq.com, though it didn't really wow me personally.

Regarding the odds, they're usually about 10 to 20% better than your standard bookies, though once you factor in a 5% Service Fee, that gap shrinks a bit. Honestly, I see local US sportsbooks adding all these weird manipulative fees lately, which seems pretty silly to me. As if it isn't enough that they take the vig, especially since their odds are usually worse than what you find online anyway.

There are two main headaches if you go the exchange route. First, there's a lack of markets for smaller leagues. In our local US sportsbooks, you can find dozens of different ways to bet on almost any game, even something obscure like a Cypriot league match or Norway's third division. But on E*TRADE, for those kinds of games, you might only see the moneyline, halftime, halftime/fulltime, or over/under 2.5 goals—sometimes just the moneyline. The second issue is liquidity, or how much money is actually moving. An exchange works by you offering an odd on whether something happens or not (that's the Back/Lay thing; for example, in Inter Milan vs AC Milan, backing Inter means they win, while laying them means they won't win, which is like a double chance x2. I guess the difference in odds is huge here; I don't have time to dive into it now, but I'll try to explain later, but in this case, the odds on an exchange could be nearly double compared to a regular bookie, meaning you could make twice as much on the same amount of money!). However, if nobody wants to take your price, your bet stays unmatched, so nothing actually happens. That's why E*TRADE is mostly good for the big leagues, or maybe on slow days when traders pick up those smaller games. On WBC and DraftKings, that problem is even tougher because they aren't as huge, so there's less money floating around and a lower chance your bet gets matched.

Like I said, I'll try to explain the whole Back/Lay system later tonight. I really think exchanges have a massive edge over traditional sportsbooks; in the last year or so that I've been using E*TRADE and WBC, maybe 99% of my action has been through the exchange.

Ethan Edwards3 said:As I mentioned, I will attempt to explain how this back/lay system functions later this evening...

👍 ..you are quite sharp if your 8 AM is tonight 😁

...I understand the theory behind how it should work (though I have only read about it)
...my only confusion is that while you obviously cannot bridge pairs between different providers, is it possible to bridge multiple odds from the same provider if they are offering several at once???

Ethan Edwards3 said:for example, Inter Milan vs AC Milan: backing Inter Milan means they win, laying Inter Milan means they won't win—essentially a double chance x2

...and although this lay position truly only yields a profit in this specific case if it results in an x2, I would rather describe it as a lay position where we act as the broker; we set the odds and determine the maximum stake for that price...but it all depends on whether anyone actually wants to take our offer. ...that is what I am curious about regarding practical application.
You mentioned there is weak liquidity in the smaller leagues... does that mean those odds would be easy to sell?? (assuming we offered them at realistic values)

I am also wondering how certain one can be about selling an odd that is common in the market if your price isn't deviating from everyone else's??
..if I have understood correctly, when we sell an odd and set a max stake of, say, $100, does that mean one player can buy the whole $100, or could two people buy $50 each? If that is the case... perhaps you could help me estimate my question like this:
Suppose I set an odd for a major game that saw a massive rush of interest, causing the price to drop from 1.4 to 1.3. (side question: when the price drops due to a surge, does the momentum continue, or do people just get discouraged because the value dropped and they bail en masse??... or perhaps when the price drops so much that the bet gets blocked at local US sportsbooks, is that when the real rush begins?)...and now, suppose I am laying that 1.3 odd, which is right in line with everyone else also selling at 1.3, and let's say I set an unlimited stake (which is impossible without unlimited coverage 😁 ...but just for the sake of estimation)....how much money would a group actually pay to buy those odds from me??
I know you cannot give me an exact figure, but I am looking for a rough idea, even if it seems silly. I want to know if we are talking about just a few dollars with a heavy dose of "maybe"
...or if it is the other extreme: that everything within the market range sells without issue up to my maximum limit....
I hope you follow what I am trying to ask... and if you have any experience, I would appreciate your help 👍

David Gomez6 said:👍 You're doing pretty good for someone up at 8 AM tonight, I guess. 😁

I was planning on adding that explanation later tonight, so here it is... And honestly, I think I hit the nail on the head—the director usually shows up around 8 AM, so I guess I just completely lost track of time! 😁

David Gomez6 said:I mean, I think I get how it’s supposed to work in theory, but I've really just been reading up on it.
I guess I didn't quite catch one thing... it's pretty obvious you can't net multiple pairs across different bookies, but is it actually possible to net several odds from the same provider if they're offering more than one? Maybe.
I guess this Lay position only really pays off if it hits a double, maybe. I’d rather just call it a Lay position since we're acting like the broker here—basically setting the odds and deciding the max stake ourselves.

I'm not totally sure I get what people mean by "nesting." Like, is it actually possible to play several parlays at once? I guess you can find that stuff under the "Parlays" section. If you just play it normally by backing everything on the slip, it’s basically just a standard ticket like you'd see at any local sportsbook—you only win if every single pick hits. But, you could also lay your parlay, which means you'd win if even just one of your picks loses. In that case, you're kind of acting like the house, or the broker who took the bet, and if one leg fails, they lose the money and you win. Though, to be honest, I don't really like doing parlays on E*TRADE. I've never actually placed one myself; I mostly just stick to singles, specifically the in-play ones.

David Gomez6 said:I guess this Lay position only really pays off if it hits that x2 mark. Maybe it's better to just think of it as us acting like a broker, where we're the ones setting the odds and deciding the max stake for that price.I guess it all just depends on whether anyone actually wants to bet on our lines. That's really what I'm curious about—how it actually works in practice, I guess.
So, you're saying there's not much action on the smaller leagues? I guess that might mean it'd be pretty easy to move those odds if we actually wanted to offer them at realistic levels. Maybe.

So, you basically set your own price with that bolded text, I guess. But if nobody bites, then what? You’ve gotta estimate a realistic price and watch how it moves, kind of like watching stocks on the NYSE. As for the second part... I'm not really sure, haven't tried it myself. If liquidity is low on a game, maybe you can get the price you want to buy or sell, but the real issue is whether you can actually exit the position later. If you just hold until the end, that's just regular gambling, not really trading. In actual trading, you're trying to predict the movement so you can flip it for a profit regardless of the final score. It's all about making sure your Back price is higher than your Lay price—it doesn't even matter which comes first. Of course, you won't always win; sometimes you'll get stuck in a bad position where the math doesn't work, but I suppose that's just how you minimize losses when things go south.

David Gomez6 said:I'm also wondering how sure you can be about selling a price that's common in the market if yours isn't actually different from the others??

It just depends on the liquidity and how the price moves, I guess. When you offer a price, you basically join the end of the line—the queue—behind everyone else who offered that same price. You have to wait until all their bets are matched or cancelled (since you can always pull your bet if nobody takes it before then) before it’s your turn. Of course, there's a chance nobody ever takes it because the price might move away from you. For example, looking at tonight's game between Roma and Udinese, there's currently $7,370 available for a Roma win at 1.72, and $1,288 for Roma not to win at 1.73.

If you try to Lay at 1.73 (meaning you expect Roma to win and want to take the Back side, so your bet shows up on the Lay side for someone betting against them), you won't get matched until those $1,288 are cleared out first. But, looking at it now, the price seems to be drifting down slightly, so maybe your bet won't even get picked up? It might just trade at 1.72 and then drop to 1.71. On the flip side, if you think Roma won't win and you Lay at 1.72, you're just waiting at the back of that $7,370 line.

Then again, you could just take whatever is already sitting there. If you think 1.72 is a fair price for a Roma win, you can just jump in and match immediately. Or if you think they won't win and 1.73 is the right spot, you can just grab that Lay bet right now.

By the way, a Lay price of 1.73 on Roma is basically like a Double Chance (X2) at 2.37, which is 2.30 after a 5% Service Fee. At my local sportsbook, the Roma win is 1.70 and the Double Chance is 1.90. So, getting 2.30 instead of 1.90 is like a 44% better return!

David Gomez6 said:..if I'm following you correctly, when we sell a price, we set a max stake, like $100. So one person could take the whole thing, or twenty people could each take $5? If that's how it works... maybe you could answer this:
Let's say I set a price for a huge game where the odds have crashed from 1.4 to 1.3. (Quick side question: does the price crash because people are piling in, or because people see the price dropping and decide to bail? Or maybe when the price drops so much that shops start blocking bets, that's when the rush actually starts?) Anyway, if I put in a Lay at 1.3, matching everyone else offering 1.3, and I somehow set an unlimited stake (which obviously I can't do without infinite coverage)...😁 ...but just for an estimate... how much cash would people actually pay me to take those odds off my hands??
I know you can't give me a straight answer, but I'm just curious about the general ballpark, even if it sounds silly. I'm wondering if we're talking about maybe just a few bucks
...or if it's the complete opposite: where everything in your range sells easily until you hit your max limit....
I hope you get what I'm asking... and if you've dealt with this before, maybe you could help me out 👍

I think I've kind of touched on this already—you put up an odd and a stake, and whether it gets picked depends on market interest (if enough people want it) and how the market views if that price is right, or if it needs to move up or down. It happens pretty often that, say, you offer a $100 stake, and maybe only $70 gets matched at your price. That remaining $30 might just stay unmatched and eventually get canceled, or you could manually cancel it yourself, or even tweak the odds to match the market movement so they get accepted at a different price.