Offside (General Discussion)

The Wagner Group pioneers

And did it not bother you, you local opportunists, when those very same Ukrainians were subjected to Russification, having their language and faith forcibly imposed upon them? That was perfectly acceptable to you. It was a profound human disgrace.

mellowotter36 is completely wrong. These people know exactly who is actively fighting to support the Putin regime, ranging from those bearded Islamic extremists out of the Caucasus to domestic Nazi groups and various far-right organizations here in the States. Yet, not one single person among us is willing to call out how the Russians are nothing more than Nazis and radical nationalists. I swear to God, if certain individuals on this forum aren't actually being paid to spread this pathetic, low-level propaganda, I don't know what to tell you.

Steven Fox37 said:I'm not trivializing anything here. It just seems like anyone who disagrees with you automatically becomes a "trivializer" in your eyes.
By that logic, I could say you're the one trivializing the whole Azov Regiment and similar groups with all this talk about "organic filtering."
Filtering doesn't happen naturally; it happens through pressure.
To claim that Ukrainians sided with the Germans—when Wikipedia suggests the UPA had maybe 20k to 200k members while the Red Army had between 4 to 7 million Ukrainians—is just an extreme stretch.

You’re usually a very logical guy, and I’m not being sarcastic—except for those moments when you refuse to touch certain ideological historical clichés because you become incredibly exclusionary, contradicting everything you normally stand against.

Take this as an example. You bring up Azov to me, but look at mainstream Russia. They aren't exactly fans of Black people, the LGBTQ+ community, atheists, vegans, Muslims, gender theory, or foreigners in general. They don't care for modern pedagogical approaches to upbringing either; they view anyone sensitive or artistic as weak or soft. They prefer ice baths, chopping wood in the middle of nowhere during winter, hitting the gym, and MMA. In fact, they mock the military and strict discipline—all the things you usually poke fun at. But suddenly, when it comes to Azov, you start having doubts.

It’s a bit of a "no shit, Sherlock" moment to point out how the majority within Azov operates, especially since those charging at them head-on share almost identical views. The only real difference is that the latter side digs up old symbols to try and map historical contexts onto today. To nearly the entire Western world, and certainly to mainstream Russia, the whole situation looks Nazi, exclusionary, and regressive.

But the core issue here is how the implementation of a new ideology works through the defamation of opponents, much like the American "cancel culture" rhetoric, which has created all these paradoxes. It’s exactly what we warned about long ago when we said that if you tried to pack half of the "progressive" crowd onto a deserted island, you'd be left with nothing.

So now we find ourselves in this spot where Russians trash Azov, even though they share 99% of the same views. Meanwhile, Russians mock Americans and Englishmen for promoting white identity politics, while the Russians themselves take pride in their own version of it. Yet, they take issue with Ukraine when it tries to find its modern identity through historical symbolism—the very same symbolism the Russians drag to the surface whenever it suits their needs.

In the middle of all these contradictions, which I know you recognize, you're telling me the situation is actually simple and easy to explain?

A Nazi in 1941 is not even remotely the same thing as one in 2022. Today, the real issue is the imposition of an ideology based on what the West defines as "progressive" values.

fadedridge903 said:When a people's culture and language are stripped away, that's where your fascism and Nazism arguments start to apply. I'm looking at this primarily through the lens of geopolitics.

According to Western media, Sputnik and RT are the true bastions of liberty.
I used to read Advance back when I was a kid.

Then maybe you should worry about whether Americans in your neck of the woods are erasing Cyrillic names on street signs, or if kids outside the majority group in certain states are being forced to study a version of history that isn't theirs.

Kyle Campbell4 said:And did it not bother you, you local opportunists, when those very same Ukrainians were subjected to Russification, having their language and faith forcibly imposed upon them? That was perfectly acceptable to you. It was a profound human disgrace.

Personally, I find any forced imposition of nationality, language, or culture to be fundamentally problematic.
I’m looking at this primarily through a geopolitical lens.

mellowotter36 said:Then maybe you should worry about whether Americans in your neck of the woods are erasing Cyrillic names on street signs, or if kids outside the majority group in certain states are being forced to study a version of history that isn't theirs.

Trust me, I worry about that as much as anyone else can.

mellowotter36 said:Then maybe you should worry about whether Americans in your neck of the woods are erasing Cyrillic names on street signs, or if kids outside the majority group in certain states are being forced to study a version of history that isn't theirs.

Wait, hold up. You're the same guy who proudly said he'd join the Axis during WWII (if he had a choice)? Even though they were allied with foreign powers—like the Swabians and Italians—they still slaughtered the local population right in their own backyard. It’s basically exactly what Russia is doing in someone else's country right now, yet here you are, acting all disgusted by how Russia behaves?

mellowotter36 said:Then maybe you should worry about whether Americans in your neck of the woods are erasing Cyrillic names on street signs, or if kids outside the majority group in certain states are being forced to study a version of history that isn't theirs.

He isn't actually spreading falsehoods; rather, what he's saying is largely true, though the issue lies in how his perspective tends to filter information quite selectively.

Just as a battlefield demands raw emotion, the world of geopolitics and high-level diplomacy generally requires a certain level of detachment, as getting too heated often becomes counterproductive. Ukraine’s situation is incredibly nuanced, and they’ve certainly complicated their own path at times; there’s really no need to grant them a free pass for their own tactical missteps.

Furthermore, some of the President's recent remarks feel more like the typical banter we see here on the forums than the words of a leader representing a nation during such a critical period.

What seems to slip under everyone's radar, however, is the historical context regarding Russia's position. It isn't as if they've always been proponents of peace; much of the territory they hold was acquired through conquest spanning sixteen centuries and lasting until the end of the 19th century.

Ultimately, the reason we must uphold international law is to ensure that current borders remain settled; otherwise, we risk sliding five centuries back into chaos. Russia has coldly disregarded this by attempting to justify modern actions using narratives from centuries ago, which is frankly absurd.

Ashley Hernandez29 said:Wait, hold up. You're the same guy who proudly said he'd join the Axis during WWII (if he had a choice)? Even though they were allied with foreign powers—like the Swabians and Italians—they still slaughtered the local population right in their own backyard. It’s basically exactly what Russia is doing in someone else's country right now, yet here you are, acting all disgusted by how Russia behaves?

Oof. You’re going to have to show me exactly where I wrote that (especially the "proudly" part), because I'm definitely not some sympathizer. If I said I'd end up in those ranks, it would only be because I was caught up in that environment and had no other logical choice. Does that make sense?

It felt like a matter of "when," not "if," that the old political ghosts would start clashing again.

And now, apparently, some people are going to be keeping a little notebook to track exactly who said what back in February or March of 2022.

I suppose the moderates are just being moderate, as usual.

It’s honestly hilarious watching people try to drag the Azov Regiment like they actually matter. As if they're anything more than a side show... compared to the Russians, they barely even make a dent. 🤣 🤣 🤣

Paul Sanders5 said:It’s honestly hilarious watching people try to drag the Azov Regiment like they actually matter. As if they're anything more than a side show... compared to the Russians, they barely even make a dent. 🤣 🤣 🤣

The Russians will sort that out eventually; they just need to liberate Ukraine first.😬

boldbadger1 said:The Russians will sort that out eventually; they just need to liberate Ukraine first.😬

It’s a brutal cycle of apparent paradoxes, all swirling together in a perfect melting pot created by the team driving this whole movement forward.

The West keeps trying to push this progressive agenda onto them, but their response is pretty blunt: they basically tell them they can take those modern sensibilities back to the folks in Sweden who are comfortable with such lifestyles, because here, people aren't even willing to look in that direction. Personally, I stand tall as a proud white Christian, and I have absolutely no intention of being ashamed of my roots.

That’s about the way it goes. But when that Swabian starts complaining about him being too intense, he’ll quickly remember exactly which branch of the military his grandfather served in and tell him where to go.😁To be honest, I suspect that halfway through any given argument, they'll somehow twist the logic to conclude that the Nazis were actually in the right.

The issue we’re facing today is that the group Greta Crew would likely label as classic neo-Nazis—those who take far too much pride in the legacy of the Soviet Union—are gaining traction. It’s an inevitable consequence when people constantly reach back into the shadows of history to find comparisons for today's political debates.
We spent much of this summer listening to people around here making all sorts of claims about how Americans are nothing more than fascists.

Jonathan Barnes5 said:You’re usually a very logical guy, and I’m not being sarcastic—except for those moments when you refuse to touch certain ideological historical clichés because you become incredibly exclusionary, contradicting everything you normally stand against.

Take this as an example. You bring up Azov to me, but look at mainstream Russia. They aren't exactly fans of Black people, the LGBTQ+ community, atheists, vegans, Muslims, gender theory, or foreigners in general. They don't care for modern pedagogical approaches to upbringing either; they view anyone sensitive or artistic as weak or soft. They prefer ice baths, chopping wood in the middle of nowhere during winter, hitting the gym, and MMA. In fact, they mock the military and strict discipline—all the things you usually poke fun at. But suddenly, when it comes to Azov, you start having doubts.

It’s a bit of a "no shit, Sherlock" moment to point out how the majority within Azov operates, especially since those charging at them head-on share almost identical views. The only real difference is that the latter side digs up old symbols to try and map historical contexts onto today. To nearly the entire Western world, and certainly to mainstream Russia, the whole situation looks Nazi, exclusionary, and regressive.

But the core issue here is how the implementation of a new ideology works through the defamation of opponents, much like the American "cancel culture" rhetoric, which has created all these paradoxes. It’s exactly what we warned about long ago when we said that if you tried to pack half of the "progressive" crowd onto a deserted island, you'd be left with nothing.

So now we find ourselves in this spot where Russians trash Azov, even though they share 99% of the same views. Meanwhile, Russians mock Americans and Englishmen for promoting white identity politics, while the Russians themselves take pride in their own version of it. Yet, they take issue with Ukraine when it tries to find its modern identity through historical symbolism—the very same symbolism the Russians drag to the surface whenever it suits their needs.

In the middle of all these contradictions, which I know you recognize, you're telling me the situation is actually simple and easy to explain?

A Nazi in 1941 is not even remotely the same thing as one in 2022. Today, the real issue is the imposition of an ideology based on what the West defines as "progressive" values.

It isn't just Russia; it's a whole bunch of countries like that, and I get that.
There’s nothing clean or easy to explain here. What I see is that everywhere in the West, there’s this sort of public hygiene going on. Even if you’re secretly a neo-Nazi, you won’t present yourself as one in public because you won't stand a chance socially. Meanwhile, over there, they hang pictures, wave flags, and even get elected as mayors. You think they’re still searching for their identity, but to me, it looks like they’ve already found it. We’ll see how this develops after the war, but I suspect if they officially lose Crimea and the eastern territories, things will get even worse. That massive dissatisfaction is going to find an outlet in hardcore, raw nationalism.

Kyle Campbell4 said:And did it not bother you, you local opportunists, when those very same Ukrainians were subjected to Russification, having their language and faith forcibly imposed upon them? That was perfectly acceptable to you. It was a profound human disgrace.

How could it have bothered me? I wasn't even alive during that period, and there weren't even forums like this to express any dissatisfaction.
Of course, Russification isn't good. Likewise, it wouldn't be right for people who had nothing to do with it to go out and do the same thing.

boldbadger1 said:Real revolution starts when you pull the plug on Instagram.

I mean, could Putin actually make that massive tactical blunder—actually stripping millions of his Russian sponsors of their most precious, narcissistic little digital playground?

If they go and ban CS:GO too, then you'll see the male population flooding the streets. 🤣

fadedridge903 said:When a people's culture and language are stripped away, that's where your fascism and Nazism arguments start to apply. I'm looking at this primarily through the lens of geopolitics.

According to Western media, Sputnik and RT are the true bastions of liberty.
I used to read Advance back when I was a kid.

No worries at all, man, but if that's your logic, I'm struggling to see how you've stayed on the side of the Russian Federation for the last twenty years.😵 In my book, there hasn't been a more Nazi-aligned state in the world over the last two decades, maybe with the exception of the People's Republic of China.

The other paradox here is how you've suddenly narrowed down "Nazism" and "fascism" to things that barely touch those actual ideologies, while simultaneously labeling almost every major superpower from the 20th century as Nazi.😵

bluebison47 said:If they go and ban CS:GO too, then you'll see the male population flooding the streets. 🤣

It was actually because of this game that I ended up retaking an exam six different times.
Instead of focusing on my Excel functions, a few of us idiots would just spend the whole time grinding CS:GO, which honestly felt like the best way to unwind.🤦
Back then, our PCs were hooked up to some local LAN server so we could play in teams, since the internet connection wasn't always reliable.

Things weren't always lightning-fast, but the beauty of CS:GO was that it didn't even need a high-speed connection to run smoothly.

bluebison47 said:If they go and ban CS:GO too, then you'll see the male population flooding the streets. 🤣

Well, I highly doubt Vladimir Putin is going to touch that issue. 😬

But seriously, what do you all think about the decision made by the Ukrainians—not letting those guys leave the country if they were born with a draft notice in their hands? Basically, once you're old enough, you're handed a rifle and that's that... ☕

Justin James10 said:Regardless of all that mindless propaganda being pushed around, it’s pretty obvious why Azov makes such an easy target for them. It really comes down to those fucking runes in their emblem and a handful of idiots within the ranks who make stupid outbursts or wear questionable patches. Honestly, people like that do nothing but cause damage.

But what exactly were you expecting during wartime?

It’s totally normal for a slice of the population to coalesce into some hyper-aggressive war machine. That’s how every single war works. You aren't going to see Hare Krishna groups sitting around meditating for the good of humanity when everything is blowing up...

Steven Fox37, they aren't just doing the same thing; they are correcting a historical injustice. The Russian language and the Russian Orthodox Church cannot be allowed to hold sway over Ukrainian innovators. It is fundamentally similar to how local factions tried to assert dominance over us with their demands.

The reality is that you can find skinhead movements and all sorts of extremist groups in every single European nation. That fact remains true regardless of whether those countries were governed by a democracy or a totalitarian regime during World War II. However, all of that exists merely at the level of a subculture or some insignificant fringe group. For heaven's sake, that does not mean the nations themselves are Nazi. I simply cannot wrap my head around how these absolute idiots are attempting to push the insane thesis that a nation of over 40 million people is inherently Nazi. Even back home, there was plenty of chaos during the war and things got intense, but that didn't make us fascists, nor did the international community succumb to such vile propaganda from our neighbors.

Ultimately, if you are going to be that sensitive about it, then I suppose Vladimir Putin's Russia should be the primary target for hate, since they have essentially become Europe's leading example regarding such groups—all with the official blessing of the state.

By the way, today the Russians opened fire on peaceful protesters in a small town in the north of the country who had gathered to protest the occupation.

Down south in Kherson, approximately 2,000 people took to the streets waving Ukrainian flags, also protesting against the occupation.

The simple truth is that people are rebelling in occupied territories no matter which part of the country they are in. People want their own state and their own freedom... not the Russian occupation boot.