Immigration discussion in Women's Corner

Aaron Phillips2 said:Is Christian Howard2 here? You know, the one in charge of the Women's Corner and Complaint?
If not, when can we expect her?
I really don't want the admin team here to be a carbon copy of some mediocre US government bureaucracy, where after I file a formal complaint, I then have to open yet another separate thread just to argue about how my first complaint was handled. Does that sound efficient to anyone?

And while we're at it—since posts seem to be vanishing into thin air and you're basically the only one actually talking to us—can someone please tell me how to get a hold of Christian Howard2? If she’s the one running the Women's Corner and handling complaints regarding moderators, I need to talk. Especially since certain moderator posts—both current and former—seem to be getting a free pass and going unpunished.

I'm here! Just catching up on everything. I'll chime in soon.

Aaron Phillips2 said:Is Christian Howard2 here? You know, the one in charge of the Women's Corner and Complaint?
If not, when can we expect her?
I really don't want the admin team here to be a carbon copy of some mediocre US government bureaucracy, where after I file a formal complaint, I then have to open yet another separate thread just to argue about how my first complaint was handled. Does that sound efficient to anyone?

And while we're at it—since posts seem to be vanishing into thin air and you're basically the only one actually talking to us—can someone please tell me how to get a hold of Christian Howard2? If she’s the one running the Women's Corner and handling complaints regarding moderators, I need to talk. Especially since certain moderator posts—both current and former—seem to be getting a free pass and going unpunished.

It’s much simpler for us to handle these matters separately. Especially when dealing with complaints related to PDFs like the Women's Corner, which tend to be a bit more volatile and prone to spiraling than complaints from most other PDFs.

Just because I'm the only one communicating doesn't mean I'm the only one moderating the thread.

Christian Howard2 will check in once she's on the forum. This thread only opened a few hours ago, so please just bear with us for a moment. We usually give the person in charge 24 hours to respond. It's summer, after all, and people aren't online as much...

If she isn't available, Nice will step in to resolve this.

EDIT: She's here, disregard my last point.

I’ve gone through both of your posts, thanks

Hannah Alvarez2 said:Just curious—so does that mean I can drag someone into a heated argument in PMs, wait thirty seconds for them to read it, and then just edit my post to make myself look like the good guy?

You can try. 😁 Some people have attempted that exact move before, but they usually get caught, and then they end up getting handed warnings for it.

coastalwolf87 said:I really don't appreciate how people are using this ZAG case to make sweeping generalizations right now. It feels like they're just projecting their own old frustrations onto everything.
Compared to the rest of the forum, the discussions over at ZAG are pretty laid-back and casual, which is exactly why reading those PDFs is such a breeze.
(And honestly, even those tacky celebrity baby stories contribute to that vibe.)

Because the moderation there is a bit more relaxed, you actually need more flexibility and solid communication skills to present an opinion. There's nothing wrong with that.
So, let them scream about who is what. Like I said, everyone can see everything that’s been written, and I assume they’re capable of drawing their own conclusions.
I actually love it when people who don't usually post on ZAG jump into a thread. For instance, seeing Beljki pop up recently was pure entertainment. And I don't just mean that when I agree with them—not at all.

And don't even get me started on Amelie, who is probably the best moderator this forum has ever seen.

The real issue here is this thread being shut down prematurely. In my opinion, that goes for the one on political correctness, too.
The clones pulled off a brilliant little subversion to make that happen. 😁

Spot on.

If someone thinks people are talking nonsense, they’re totally free to quote them and argue back, try to persuade them, or whatever they feel like doing.
Dropping in every once in a while just to slap labels on people? That’s not how it works.

melloworca6 said:You can try. 😁 Some people have attempted that exact move before, but they usually get caught, and then they end up getting handed warnings for it.

Wait, isn't that the exact opposite of what Michelle Evans was saying? 🤷

I thought you all were still here.

+1

I am fully behind Aaron Phillips2, Ksi, Alex Miller3, and the rest of the group. Frankly, I found the way certain women on this forum presented their views quite offensive; they seemed more interested in protecting their little cliques than practicing basic tolerance or decency.

Furthermore, the language Petra used when she locked the thread was insulting to women, as she implied we are only capable of discussing trivialities like hair care. It would be a class act if Petra offered an apology.

northernmaker7 said:I thought you all were still here.

+1

I am fully behind Aaron Phillips2, Ksi, Alex Miller3, and the rest of the group. Frankly, I found the way certain women on this forum presented their views quite offensive; they seemed more interested in protecting their little cliques than practicing basic tolerance or decency.

Furthermore, the language Petra used when she locked the thread was insulting to women, as she implied we are only capable of discussing trivialities like hair care. It would be a class act if Petra offered an apology.

Those comments were directed at the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint (of which I am a part). I wasn't insulting women—nor do I believe women are limited to trivial topics like hair care.

For what it's worth, if you haven't noticed, I only bother responding to individuals who actually demonstrate some level of decency in their communication. I’m nobody’s babysitter—I have zero interest in dealing with people's hysterics, especially when they just carry that foaming-at-the-mouth energy from one subforum to another.

If you hadn't all gone off the deep end, we could have had a perfectly normal discussion once things cooled down. Elections are a mess.

Besides, most of the admin team are volunteers who can't exactly be glued to their screens whenever you lot decide to throw a tantrum. Where the other moderators—Christian Howard2, Nica, or myself—are located is none of your damn business.

I understand the technical hurdles involved in moderation, especially when dealing with volatile topics.

Instead of playing the victim, you’d be better off just admitting you slipped up. It happens to everyone; no big deal.

There is more to this than meets the eye.

I’m not offering some hollow apology just for the sake of appearances. I don't believe I was wrong, nor do I think I slipped up at any point. And even if you aren't someone's clone—assuming you've moderated somewhere else before—nothing is ever going to make sense to you. Just as nothing made sense to me earlier.

It’s funny how those who preach about ditching political correctness always seem to have such massive meltdowns the moment they feel personally insulted.

Anyway, do whatever you want. I’m done moderating for you people. Honestly, I’d rather spend my time volunteering at the local zoo.
The Supermod and Admin will let you know if they decide to reopen this thread.

Over and out.

driftingcanyon16 said:And which of Gilda's posts are actually xenophobic or racist?

God, I could go back and forth with you all day, but I won't. It’s just too much. It’s actually kind of sad that you view yourself as some bastion of tolerance...

And that right there is exactly the issue. Some people just decide they are "something"—you know, deciding they're somehow better than the rest of us, or more enlightened, or whatever... ☕

Nancy Cruz3 said:Those comments were directed at the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint (of which I am a part). I wasn't insulting women—nor do I believe women are limited to trivial topics like hair care.

For what it's worth, if you haven't noticed, I only bother responding to individuals who actually demonstrate some level of decency in their communication. I’m nobody’s babysitter—I have zero interest in dealing with people's hysterics, especially when they just carry that foaming-at-the-mouth energy from one subforum to another.

If you hadn't all gone off the deep end, we could have had a perfectly normal discussion once things cooled down. Elections are a mess.

Besides, most of the admin team are volunteers who can't exactly be glued to their screens whenever you lot decide to throw a tantrum. Where the other moderators—Christian Howard2, Nica, or myself—are located is none of your damn business.

Since most of the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint are women, yeah, you definitely insulted them. This whole thing where you play dumb and try to insist that shit isn't shit? That’s just your classic way of communicating. Typical.

Nancy Cruz3 said:Those comments were directed at the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint (of which I am a part). I wasn't insulting women—nor do I believe women are limited to trivial topics like hair care.

For what it's worth, if you haven't noticed, I only bother responding to individuals who actually demonstrate some level of decency in their communication. I’m nobody’s babysitter—I have zero interest in dealing with people's hysterics, especially when they just carry that foaming-at-the-mouth energy from one subforum to another.

If you hadn't all gone off the deep end, we could have had a perfectly normal discussion once things cooled down. Elections are a mess.

Besides, most of the admin team are volunteers who can't exactly be glued to their screens whenever you lot decide to throw a tantrum. Where the other moderators—Christian Howard2, Nica, or myself—are located is none of your damn business.

Oh, poor thing. Someone hurt your feelings, didn't they? They didn't speak to you in that sweet, perfect tone you were expecting. *Sniffle.*

Look, you’re moderating a public forum with thousands of people scrolling through. If you honestly believe that being a mod gives you the right to hand-pick who you answer based on whether you like their tone or not, then your capacity for this job is way lower than I originally thought.
Honestly, this administration is an absolute joke.

Nancy Cruz3 said:Those comments were directed at the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint (of which I am a part). I wasn't insulting women—nor do I believe women are limited to trivial topics like hair care.

For what it's worth, if you haven't noticed, I only bother responding to individuals who actually demonstrate some level of decency in their communication. I’m nobody’s babysitter—I have zero interest in dealing with people's hysterics, especially when they just carry that foaming-at-the-mouth energy from one subforum to another.

If you hadn't all gone off the deep end, we could have had a perfectly normal discussion once things cooled down. Elections are a mess.

Besides, most of the admin team are volunteers who can't exactly be glued to their screens whenever you lot decide to throw a tantrum. Where the other moderators—Christian Howard2, Nica, or myself—are located is none of your damn business.

And there you go, off on another one of your tangents.

Nancy Cruz3 said:Those comments were directed at the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint (of which I am a part). I wasn't insulting women—nor do I believe women are limited to trivial topics like hair care.

For what it's worth, if you haven't noticed, I only bother responding to individuals who actually demonstrate some level of decency in their communication. I’m nobody’s babysitter—I have zero interest in dealing with people's hysterics, especially when they just carry that foaming-at-the-mouth energy from one subforum to another.

If you hadn't all gone off the deep end, we could have had a perfectly normal discussion once things cooled down. Elections are a mess.

Besides, most of the admin team are volunteers who can't exactly be glued to their screens whenever you lot decide to throw a tantrum. Where the other moderators—Christian Howard2, Nica, or myself—are located is none of your damn business.

Well, here we go... finally. The ultimate trump card for every moderator who hasn't got a clue what they're doing: "I'm a volunteer!"
Look, nobody’s forcing your hand. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to.

That kind of statement is the absolute rock bottom for a moderator. It’s pretty obvious you don't get it—you're here to serve the community, not the other way around. In any normal US-based forum, a decent admin would have stripped your permissions on the spot for saying something like that. Right away. Got kicked from the moderation queue.

nimblecrane6 said:Honestly, this whole topic has massive potential for actual discussion—and more importantly, for some genuine learning.
So, you want to talk about where everyone actually comes from? You know, the different states and origins that make up this massive melting pot we call America? It’s a bit of a rabbit hole, isn't it? One minute you're talking about someone hailing from the East Coast, and the next, you're deep in a tangent about folks from the Midwest or those West Coast types. It's all part of the tapestry, I suppose. Where does everyone originate? Where do all these people actually trace their roots back to?
So, you want to talk about culture? Honestly, where do we even begin? It’s such a vast, sweeping topic that I feel like we could spend an entire afternoon just circling the perimeter of it without ever actually stepping inside. It’s everything from the way we drink our coffee in the morning to those deep-seated, unspoken social rules that dictate how we behave in a crowded subway car. It’s the fabric of everything. But fine, if you're insisting on opening this particular can of worms... let's dive in. What specific corner of the cultural landscape are we dissecting today? Give me something to work with.
Do you really want me to go down that rabbit hole? Fine. If you’re looking for a breakdown of the political maneuvering and those backroom deals that paved the way for this absolute circus we're living through right now... buckle up. It wasn't just one thing; it was a slow-motion train wreck of policy shifts and power plays. Honestly, looking back at the sequence of events, it’s almost impressive how much chaos can be manufactured when enough people in Washington decide to play games with the rules. I mean, if you look at the timeline, the pieces were being moved on the board long before the first explosion actually happened. It’s all connected, though most people are too distracted by the shiny distractions to see the pattern. Where do you even want me to start? With the legislative gridlock or the actual shady dealings behind the scenes?
So, you want the lowdown on the current situation? Fine. Let’s get into it. Who are these people exactly? How are they moving from point A to point B? What's driving them to leave? Where did their families end up? And why, for heaven's sake, is the makeup of these groups such a bizarre, specific mess? It’s all connected, really. You can't just look at one piece of the puzzle without the whole thing falling apart in your hands. Expect a long one.
Do you actually want me to dive into the potential fallout? Because if we’re going to do this, let's do it right. We aren't just talking about numbers on a spreadsheet; we're talking about a massive, cascading domino effect. I mean, where do you even start? You’ve got the financial impact on transit countries—those nations basically acting as the middle ground—and then there's the fiscal strain on the actual destination countries. It’s a heavy lift for any economy. Then you jump into the demographic shifts, which change everything about how a society functions, not to mention the public health risks and those inevitable cultural shifts that happen when populations move. And don't even get me started on security. Or the political consequences within the host nations once people actually settle in. That ripples outward, too, fundamentally altering the entire global political landscape. It’s all interconnected. So, do you really want the deep dive? Because it's a lot.

However, right from the jump, a specific clique of forum users has taken this stance...
They need help right this second—not tomorrow, not after some committee meets, but *now*. And then you see those people who stay silent until they can jump in to "analyze" the situation? You’re nothing but a bunch of bottom-feeders. Honestly, may you all get exactly what's coming to you. Xenophobes and fascists, the lot of you.

I honestly fail to grasp why any semblance of critical thought or deep deliberation on this subject is treated like a taboo. Why is it suddenly considered unacceptable to examine the various facets of this crisis instead of just obsessing over one single issue? It’s exhausting. Should we actually be providing field assistance right now while they're crossing borders through Europe?

So, we’re back at it again. Right at the tail end of this thread—back when we were discussing those refugees who are actually turning down humanitarian aid just because they see the Red Cross logo on the boxes—certain members of this group have resurfaced. And what do they do? They go right back to that same old routine: spitting venom and slapping labels on anyone actually trying to understand *why* someone might refuse help in the first place. I mean, seriously, why is it suddenly such a taboo subject to even discuss? Why is it considered unacceptable to have a conversation about the logic behind these decisions? It's like we aren't allowed to ask questions anymore without being branded.

I'm genuinely curious here.

Where did that idea even come from?
None of those people even mentioned the cross.

Here's the video, just so I don't have to repeat myself.

I think I was actually the first one to weigh in on ZK, so everyone else just jumped on the bandwagon after me. Why do you ask?

Besides, people were already debating this over on Politics long before it ever hit ZK. It's not like I just made this up out of thin air. 😁

Sam Alvarez4 said:I'm genuinely curious here.

Where did that idea even come from?
None of those people even mentioned the cross.

Here's the video, just so I don't have to repeat myself.

I have no clue who started that whole story over at the Women's Corner and Complaint, but it really took hold, just like so many other rumors.
When someone pointed out how harmful it is to spread unverified info—and that this kind of agitation is basically xenophobia—a few users got all worked up. It looks like they're still sulking, too.
Morgan Rodriguez57 and kiss just kept posting that endless series of Canadian-style nonsense, so I eventually just stopped replying in that thread.
They called me stupid, not very bright, and even mean... well, honestly, I'm just frustrated. My only real regret is that I wasted a reply meant for coastalwolf87 because the thread is already locked. Personally, I wish they'd reopen it so everyone could see the actual arguments, but I don't think I'll jump back into the fray. It's a shame, really.

Petra, I’m not calling for you to be stripped of your moderator badge at a disciplinary hearing. I don't view this as a resignation, either; I’m simply asking you to pause and reflect. This isn't some personal vendetta—too many people have been bothered by how you've communicated for it to be just a whim. Your mistake was taking a side instead of remaining neutral. That’s all. It happens when things get heated, but good grief.

melloworca6 said:I think I was actually the first one to weigh in on ZK, so everyone else just jumped on the bandwagon after me. Why do you ask?

Besides, people were already debating this over on Politics long before it ever hit ZK. It's not like I just made this up out of thin air. 😁

I'm asking because that simply isn't true...
We really need to be correcting misinformation like that instead of letting it spread...

I'm totally on board with the rest of what you wrote there... definitely agree!
Just caught up on everything this morning... feeling curious!

David Foster80 said:Since most of the people hanging out in the Women's Corner and Complaint are women, yeah, you definitely insulted them. This whole thing where you play dumb and try to insist that shit isn't shit? That’s just your classic way of communicating. Typical.

Oh, poor thing. Someone hurt your feelings, didn't they? They didn't speak to you in that sweet, perfect tone you were expecting. *Sniffle.*

Look, you’re moderating a public forum with thousands of people scrolling through. If you honestly believe that being a mod gives you the right to hand-pick who you answer based on whether you like their tone or not, then your capacity for this job is way lower than I originally thought.
Honestly, this administration is an absolute joke.

And there you go, off on another one of your tangents.

Well, here we go... finally. The ultimate trump card for every moderator who hasn't got a clue what they're doing: "I'm a volunteer!"
Look, nobody’s forcing your hand. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to.

That kind of statement is the absolute rock bottom for a moderator. It’s pretty obvious you don't get it—you're here to serve the community, not the other way around. In any normal US-based forum, a decent admin would have stripped your permissions on the spot for saying something like that. Right away. Got kicked from the moderation queue.

If you honestly think this moderator’s communication style isn't appropriate, then you shouldn't be stooping to their level. This entire post is a perfect example of that, especially the bolded part where you attack someone who has nothing to do with this.

As for the complaints about locking threads, isn't it standard practice on ZK to lock topics once they get too heated?

melloworca6 said:I think I was actually the first one to weigh in on ZK, so everyone else just jumped on the bandwagon after me. Why do you ask?

Besides, people were already debating this over on Politics long before it ever hit ZK. It's not like I just made this up out of thin air. 😁

That’s the bigger picture, I guess. It'll be some way for people to protect themselves from those "accusations" of chauvinism 🙏 🙏 🙏

Richard Nelson84 said:If you honestly think this moderator’s communication style isn't appropriate, then you shouldn't be stooping to their level. This entire post is a perfect example of that, especially the bolded part where you attack someone who has nothing to do with this.

As for the complaints about locking threads, isn't it standard practice on ZK to lock topics once they get too heated?

Who exactly am I offending?
I just said that any decent admin would have stripped her of her moderator status immediately after that sentence. Where’s the insult in that?

And as for "sinking to her level"—first off, I’m not a moderator. Second, I just match people's energy. If they talk to me like that, I talk back the same way.