São Paulo Grand Prix (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) | November 12-14, 2021

The situation with Lewis Hamilton is crystal clear to me. Having a car with an illegal rear wing that pulls pole in qualifying? That’s a straightforward disqualification, plain and simple. At best, they'll just swap out the wing and let him start from the pit lane for Sunday's race. Given how things are looking, if Lewis Hamilton can find enough pace in today's sprint, he might actually be able to muscle past Max Verstappen—maybe even force him wide. Even with the penalty, it doesn't really matter because he's starting from the pits anyway, whereas Max would be stuck at the back of the pack.

Max Verstappen’s situation is much more complicated. Based on what we know, it looks like he was intentionally messing with the rear wing, which goes against the spirit of the sporting regulations. It's hard to call this one because it all comes down to steward discretion, and honestly, relying on that feels like being out on a boat in choppy waters. We can sit here and vent about "stupidity" all we want, but ultimately, it's up to the officials and how they choose to view the situation.

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ruggedhawk20 says: Dearest Moderator, one must consider that Fangio actually lost his championship fight to his own teammate, Giuseppe Farina—though some prefer to refer to him as... the Doctor of Medicine.

😉
And that is precisely why he is the GOAT: Jim Clark

To bring me back to something I wrote almost exactly a year ago;

Jason Campbell70 said:Max remains Max—blisteringly fast, yet incredibly reckless.

Max Verstappen is scheduled to meet with the stewards in about an hour, so it looks like we’ll have to wait a little longer for a final decision on his penalty.

ruggedmaker99 said:I believe we all noticed how Lewis was practically dragging himself to his starting position
but of course, the reason behind it was immediately obvious. though, just as you pointed out...
it was likely against the regulations, but what can you do? I can't bring myself to wish an additional penalty on him just yet.
that would be excessive; it is much easier to simply overlook it as 🙄

I would say the exact same thing
but then I remember how he started during last night's sprint race, looking like a total sloth
so... yeah... 🤷
But honestly, I'm rooting for the old man; I love seeing him back at the top. He's a legend.
And nothing beats the feeling of watching Vettel - Raikkonen - Alonso lined up one after another in a race like the last one 🎉

https://www.pitpass.com/71278/Red-Bu...Mercedes-speed

There's a new drama brewing on the docks 🎉 🤦

Maybe this time they should just let Sergio Perez go ahead and inspect everything thoroughly and get to the bottom of it, rather than 😳
🙄

What is truly striking about this entire situation is this specific piece of data: I think he was 17 miles/h faster than Lando Norris when he passed him, which is another formula.

Jason Campbell70 said:Since we're already digging through the archives and debating how rules get implemented and interpreted, I'll toss my two cents into the ring:

Formula 1 bans moving under braking following complaints regarding Max Verstappen

Following driver pushback against Max Verstappen’s defensive maneuvers, Formula 1 has officially prohibited moving while braking.

While the driver from the Netherlands has made this tactic his signature move during battles with competitors, several other drivers have voiced concerns that it is incredibly hazardous.

Given the string of controversies surrounding the 19-year-old this season, this change will likely be dubbed the "Verstappen rule."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

Five years later, and it seems Verstappen hasn't learned much.
He'll learn eventually, though. Once he hits another wall.

To summarize, the rule was introduced specifically because of Max Verstappen himself, following complaints from several drivers who claimed he was putting both himself and others at risk. To this day, his approach remains largely unchanged; it is either a collision or no overtake at all—unless someone else decides to be just as uncompromising. And when that happens, Max is always the one pointing the finger.
I have nothing against Max personally, lest anyone misinterpret me; my issue is simply that certain actions seem to slip under the radar.

Man, Mercedes is basically chasing Ferrari's tail when things go south
It feels like Merc is hitting a wall with their engine and chassis design whenever they try to push this hard.

Both of them end up at the back of the grid—Max because of some legal nonsense and Luja because he played dirty.

ruggedmaker99 said:I believe we all noticed how Lewis was practically dragging himself to his starting position
but of course, the reason behind it was immediately obvious. though, just as you pointed out...
it was likely against the regulations, but what can you do? I can't bring myself to wish an additional penalty on him just yet.
that would be excessive; it is much easier to simply overlook it as 🙄

I would say the exact same thing
but then I remember how he started during last night's sprint race, looking like a total sloth
so... yeah... 🤷
But honestly, I'm rooting for the old man; I love seeing him back at the top. He's a legend.
And nothing beats the feeling of watching Vettel - Raikkonen - Alonso lined up one after another in a race like the last one 🎉

https://www.pitpass.com/71278/Red-Bu...Mercedes-speed

There's a new drama brewing on the docks 🎉 🤦

Maybe this time they should just let Sergio Perez go ahead and inspect everything thoroughly and get to the bottom of it, rather than 😳
🙄

Actually, it wasn't Bottas hitting 27 km/h, it was Lewis. So it isn't just about the car; it’s definitely something with the driver.
😬

Jason Campbell70 said:Since we're already digging through the archives and debating how rules get implemented and interpreted, I'll toss my two cents into the ring:

Formula 1 bans moving under braking following complaints regarding Max Verstappen

Following driver pushback against Max Verstappen’s defensive maneuvers, Formula 1 has officially prohibited moving while braking.

While the driver from the Netherlands has made this tactic his signature move during battles with competitors, several other drivers have voiced concerns that it is incredibly hazardous.

Given the string of controversies surrounding the 19-year-old this season, this change will likely be dubbed the "Verstappen rule."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

Five years later, and it seems Verstappen hasn't learned much.
He'll learn eventually, though. Once he hits another wall.

Max was "weaving" right up until the moment he hit the brakes... so...

By the way, hats off to Mercedes for their brilliant strategy—introducing yet another power unit designed to last roughly one-third of a "standard" lifespan because they cranked it to the absolute limit, only to end up sabotaging their own reliability by relying on pure, raw horsepower... truly masterstroke engineering from those geniuses...

Gregory Brown94 said:The situation with Lewis Hamilton is crystal clear to me. Having a car with an illegal rear wing that pulls pole in qualifying? That’s a straightforward disqualification, plain and simple. At best, they'll just swap out the wing and let him start from the pit lane for Sunday's race. Given how things are looking, if Lewis Hamilton can find enough pace in today's sprint, he might actually be able to muscle past Max Verstappen—maybe even force him wide. Even with the penalty, it doesn't really matter because he's starting from the pits anyway, whereas Max would be stuck at the back of the pack.

Max Verstappen’s situation is much more complicated. Based on what we know, it looks like he was intentionally messing with the rear wing, which goes against the spirit of the sporting regulations. It's hard to call this one because it all comes down to steward discretion, and honestly, relying on that feels like being out on a boat in choppy waters. We can sit here and vent about "stupidity" all we want, but ultimately, it's up to the officials and how they choose to view the situation.

Are you aiming for sarcasm here? Michael Schumacher got slapped with a ban for the rest of the season because he intentionally rammed a rival... why on earth would you think Lewis Hamilton would get anything less if he pulls the exact same stunt now?

graniteharbor502 said:If we are looking at this through a purely statistical lens, one has to wonder if anyone has ever truly piloted a machine quite as dominant as the one he commanded. It really makes you pause and reflect, doesn't it? When you consider the sheer engineering superiority of that car, isn't it obvious that there are at least three drivers competing in today's field who, if placed behind the wheel of that exact same vehicle, would likely achieve identical results—if not even surpass them?
Can a driver truly claim the title of the Greatest of All Time if they have fundamentally lost a championship battle against their own teammate? It is a question that lingers in the mind, isn't it? One must wonder if the very essence of greatness requires a certain level of dominance within one's own garage, a sense of absolute supremacy over those sharing the same machinery. If you cannot emerge victorious against the person sitting in the car right next to you, can you really be considered the pinnacle of the sport?
When I consider who truly deserves the title of the Greatest of All Time, my mind immediately drifts toward the legends like Juan Manuel Fangio or Jim Clark. To me, those are the only names that carry such weight. Everything else we discuss lately feels somewhat beneath that level of greatness, doesn't it?

When one takes a moment to step back and examine the historical data regarding Valtteri Bottas's performance in teammate duels, does it not become clear how he fared against his contemporaries? If we look at the period just before Felipe Massa stepped away from the cockpit, Bottas certainly held his own, especially when compared to the era of pay-drivers like Pastor Maldonado. Furthermore, if we analyze the trajectory of Sergio Perez, isn't it evident that he consistently outperformed those he was paired with, such as Kamui Kobayashi, Nico Hulkenberg, Esteban Ocon, and Lance Stroll? One cannot help but wonder if these patterns of dominance are merely statistical anomalies or true reflections of driving caliber.
Is it not a curious thing to contemplate how Valtteri Bottas found himself within the ranks of Mercedes-Benz simply because Toto Wolff held the reins? It seems his tenure there was defined by that leadership, and yet, now he finds himself departing from the team entirely. One cannot help but wonder, as we look toward the future, just how much "excellence" he might actually bring to the table during his time at Alfa Romeo?

Lewis can only be the LOAT...
The Luckiest Of All Time. Honestly, he should just go by "Lucky."
The amount of pure luck that guy has had in Formula 1 is actually insane. 😁

mellowtiger83 said:To summarize, the rule was introduced specifically because of Max Verstappen himself, following complaints from several drivers who claimed he was putting both himself and others at risk. To this day, his approach remains largely unchanged; it is either a collision or no overtake at all—unless someone else decides to be just as uncompromising. And when that happens, Max is always the one pointing the finger.
I have nothing against Max personally, lest anyone misinterpret me; my issue is simply that certain actions seem to slip under the radar.

God, it's unbelievable how much a "prestigious" last name can do for you.
In terms of pure Formula 1 logic, he's the exact equivalent of those entitled kids from the big political dynasties back home in the States—the ones who think they can stumble around drunk, knock people over, or act completely reckless because they know deep down they’ll never face any consequences. They move through life thinking they're untouchable. And honestly, I’m even willing to tolerate them being arrogant about it, just like he is.

stormybadger8 said:What kind of person are you? 👍
Honestly, it’s probably better to just take the DNF and eat those 25 points. Then they can just swap out the engine for the next race and blow the grid penalty anyway. 🙂
So, in that little math equation of yours, do they just hand out free engines after every DNF? 😁

And let's not even get started on how much power these engines lose as they age. It’s glaringly obvious with the German team—way more noticeable than with anyone else on the grid.
Look, it’s honestly ridiculous. When brave Lujo is out there struggling with an ancient engine, and then you have Max in that dominant RB—it’s wild that he manages to edge out Hamilton by a measly 0.1 seconds in qualifying on those long stretches where it basically means nothing.
Look, if brave Lujo actually gets a new engine and manages to pull a 0.5-second gap on Max—especially on a track where everyone is fighting within a tight 0.75-second window—then we’re talking. That’s when it’s officially Hamertime. 🙏

What sports do you actually follow?
It’s not like they’re running a motorcycle gearbox here. You don't just get handed a penalty because you caught a DNF due to a mechanical failure. 🙄
That Račnica move was a pretty massive fail on your part...

Over the last eight years, Mercedes drivers have suffered three engine failures. That works out to about a 1.85% chance that Lewis Hamilton’s engine will give out during the final five races—a risk definitely not worth losing 50 points over in a tight championship battle...
Even the folks over at Honda seem totally blindsided by this, just like the rest of us. But hey, you wouldn't know anything about that, right? You're clearly the smartest person in the room, you absolute Worst F1 driver...
Honda is left scratching their heads over why things aren't clicking, and honestly, you can't blame them. After everything they’ve put into this, seeing the results fall short is a tough pill to swallow. You have to wonder if there's a fundamental disconnect somewhere in the strategy or the technical execution...

Whatever the reason, the Mercedes leadership and the pit wall are making so many uncharacteristic mistakes this year that it honestly feels like they’re actively trying to throw this championship away...

Jack Kelly5 said:Actually, it wasn't Bottas hitting 27 km/h, it was Lewis. So it isn't just about the car; it’s definitely something with the driver.
😬

I highly doubt they're running identical cars.
Lewis was basically strolling past most of the grid yesterday like they were all driving F2 cars...
Who knows, maybe we'll end up uncovering some kind of scam at the end, just like how Ferrari 2019 had that insane straight-line speed.

Linda Peterson43 said:Max was "weaving" right up until the moment he hit the brakes... so...

By the way, hats off to Mercedes for their brilliant strategy—introducing yet another power unit designed to last roughly one-third of a "standard" lifespan because they cranked it to the absolute limit, only to end up sabotaging their own reliability by relying on pure, raw horsepower... truly masterstroke engineering from those geniuses...

... which is why they waved the black flag at him. 🙂

Jason Campbell70 said:Because the parts Vettel touched didn't end up being used as forensic evidence afterward.
Is that really so hard to grasp?

This time, after Verstappen's contact with Hamilton's rear wing, an inspection by the FIA delegate was conducted to check technical compliance.
In this instance, the issue is the contamination of the evidence by Max. That's strictly against the rules, and we can expect some kind of penalty—likely a fine or a formal warning.

Regarding Max contaminating the evidence, Mercedes will likely push to have the rear wing inspection results thrown out.
Does that make sense now?

Performing like the glory days with that Q avatar. 🤣

stormybadger8 said:And what about the mechanics who had to push the car back into the garage?🙂
Stop talking nonsense.

Hamilton's penalty is crystal clear. I don't care how much people try to talk their way out of it, there's no saving him.
It’s a blatant violation. It doesn't even matter if Max was leaning on Lujo's side during qualifying, or kicked him after qualifying, or whatever...

Sebastian Vettel got penalized after Canada even though there was fuel in the car, but the pump failed and they couldn't drain it...
But hey, everything went strictly by the book. If you can't pump the fuel and secure that famous extra liter, you're guilty and that's that.
It's the same story with the DRS. If it's over 85 mm, you get penalized. Why? Doesn't matter.

As for Max's penalty, I don't see it being anything other than a fine or maybe a warning...
There's zero chance he gets a grid penalty, a disqualification, or anything else. It has nothing to do with his driving or his car.
At the end of the day, how would they punish a journalist, Adrian Newey, Christian Horner, or anyone else who isn't a driver for the same thing?

They have those things called gloves. VER has fingernails that can double as tools. 🤣

stormybadger8 said:And what about the mechanics who had to push the car back into the garage?🙂
Stop talking nonsense.

Hamilton's penalty is crystal clear. I don't care how much people try to talk their way out of it, there's no saving him.
It’s a blatant violation. It doesn't even matter if Max was leaning on Lujo's side during qualifying, or kicked him after qualifying, or whatever...

Sebastian Vettel got penalized after Canada even though there was fuel in the car, but the pump failed and they couldn't drain it...
But hey, everything went strictly by the book. If you can't pump the fuel and secure that famous extra liter, you're guilty and that's that.
It's the same story with the DRS. If it's over 85 mm, you get penalized. Why? Doesn't matter.

As for Max's penalty, I don't see it being anything other than a fine or maybe a warning...
There's zero chance he gets a grid penalty, a disqualification, or anything else. It has nothing to do with his driving or his car.
At the end of the day, how would they punish a journalist, Adrian Newey, Christian Horner, or anyone else who isn't a driver for the same thing?

The FIA gave them every opportunity to extract that liter from the car—even suggesting they flip the car upside down or on its side if necessary—yet they still failed. Was it even possible?

ruggedmaker99 said:I believe we all noticed how Lewis was practically dragging himself to his starting position
but of course, the reason behind it was immediately obvious. though, just as you pointed out...
it was likely against the regulations, but what can you do? I can't bring myself to wish an additional penalty on him just yet.
that would be excessive; it is much easier to simply overlook it as 🙄

I would say the exact same thing
but then I remember how he started during last night's sprint race, looking like a total sloth
so... yeah... 🤷
But honestly, I'm rooting for the old man; I love seeing him back at the top. He's a legend.
And nothing beats the feeling of watching Vettel - Raikkonen - Alonso lined up one after another in a race like the last one 🎉

https://www.pitpass.com/71278/Red-Bu...Mercedes-speed

There's a new drama brewing on the docks 🎉 🤦

Maybe this time they should just let Sergio Perez go ahead and inspect everything thoroughly and get to the bottom of it, rather than 😳
🙄

😁

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/992372...tfacing-camera

The stewards decided not to issue a penalty since there wasn't a camera angle showing exactly what Max was doing with the steering wheel. It makes me wonder why that specific footage didn't make its way to them. I suspect they'll revisit this later. I wouldn't be surprised if the "no penalty" ruling changes once the right video surfaces. Once that footage is available, it will likely prove his actions were intentional.

Elizabeth Morales49 said:Are you aiming for sarcasm here? Michael Schumacher got slapped with a ban for the rest of the season because he intentionally rammed a rival... why on earth would you think Lewis Hamilton would get anything less if he pulls the exact same stunt now?

Lewis is a master at that kind of thing; a light touch like what we saw in Brazil 2019 is more than enough. That’s why I like Lewis. Michael was an absolute beast when it came to those moves, whereas Lewis is more like a clever, smart fox.

I just love the 2021 season. 🎉 On this day back in 1994, Michael Schumacher clinched his first title following that controversial collision.

I'll always say...

Amanda Kelly is the GOAT!

Hamilton is statistically the GOAT.

So, yeah...