São Paulo Grand Prix (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) | November 12-14, 2021

Lawrence Garcia5 said:Bottas is clearly a class above Sergio Perez. 👍

Based on what, exactly? Is there some underlying principle or perhaps a specific metric we ought to be considering in this discussion? One cannot help but wonder if we are truly grasping the essence of the matter, or if we are merely skimming the surface of a much more profound inquiry. What is the fundamental basis for this entire line of reasoning?

Lawrence Garcia5 said:So, basically, one season is all it takes to decide Max is the better driver. 😁

*cough Netflix fan cough*

We are discussing this current season, are we not? Max is still so young, and there is such an immense amount of road left ahead of him to travel.

Just so you know, I have been following Formula 1 since well before you were even born.

Honestly, this thread is way more interesting than the actual race itself. 😂

Hamilton.
The championship is basically a wrap anyway, so this is how it’s going to go—just another race over and done with.

graniteharbor502 said:There exists this rather peculiar category known as the Drivers' Championship standings, isn't there? They are such strange, abstract figures that one might find them difficult to decipher at first glance, but if you look closely, they reveal the truth of the season—showing us that Max is currently sitting at the top of the order, while Lewis holds the second position.
It is truly remarkable, isn't it, how some of these fans can become so utterly consumed by their devotion that they lose all sense of perspective? One begins to wonder if that intense, singular focus on cheering—that almost feverish zeal—eventually clouds their judgment entirely, leaving them unable to see anything beyond the colors they choose to support. Is it not a strange phenomenon, this way that passion can seemingly blind a person to reason?

Just how exceptional is that car really, when you consider the results of his own teammate, who hasn't managed to secure a single win compared to what Bottas has achieved?

Right, so Lewis is the Greatest of All Time, got it. We just look at the standings, how many times he's been on top, the pole positions, and so on. Thanks for clarifying, have a nice day.

Just how good that car actually is depends on his teammate's results—and the guy hasn't managed a single pole position, unlike Bottas...

Bottas is the faster driver; it was obvious in qualifying before this season started. 🤷
Perez might be better at tire management, but overall, Bottas is the more capable driver. One guy is in a Mercedes, while the other ended up at Williams acting like a fourth or fifth-stringer on the grid.
What Lewis is doing to Bottas doesn't mean Bottas is bad—it just shows how fantastic Lewis is. It's the exact same situation with Max and Perez; it's crystal clear that Lewis and Max are two classes above everyone else.

ruggedhawk20 said:Swerving on the track!?

What sport are you even watching? The Tour de France!?

No, you.

Lawrence Garcia5 said:And you're clearly an anti-Hamilton guy. It’s honestly hilarious how much resentment he and Mercedes-Benz have stirred up over the last few years.

But looking at this objectively, both drivers messed up. They should have started in the last and second-to-last positions. That’s the fairest call you could make.

And what about the mechanics who had to push the car back into the garage?🙂
Stop talking nonsense.

Hamilton's penalty is crystal clear. I don't care how much people try to talk their way out of it, there's no saving him.
It’s a blatant violation. It doesn't even matter if Max was leaning on Lujo's side during qualifying, or kicked him after qualifying, or whatever...

Sebastian Vettel got penalized after Canada even though there was fuel in the car, but the pump failed and they couldn't drain it...
But hey, everything went strictly by the book. If you can't pump the fuel and secure that famous extra liter, you're guilty and that's that.
It's the same story with the DRS. If it's over 85 mm, you get penalized. Why? Doesn't matter.

As for Max's penalty, I don't see it being anything other than a fine or maybe a warning...
There's zero chance he gets a grid penalty, a disqualification, or anything else. It has nothing to do with his driving or his car.
At the end of the day, how would they punish a journalist, Adrian Newey, Christian Horner, or anyone else who isn't a driver for the same thing?

stormybadger8 said:Checking out the Sprint from Lewis Hamilton's onboard, and man, I spotted something pretty wild right at the start...

Lewis is basically playing snail during the formation lap—this shot is actually kind of hilarious...


He pulls into his spot on the grid, and boom, the start kicks off within three seconds...
Honestly, it’s no wonder four cars got wiped out before the first turn, and he nearly rear-ended Lance Stroll during braking...
Is this even legal? 🤔 He practically barely stopped on his grid slot before he was already rolling...
Everyone else was busy warming up their tires, especially the guys at the front, while he just barely tapped the brakes long enough to look like he was actually stationary instead of already moving...😁

Total cheats, through and through.😬
And Bottas and Sainz helped the cause too, since they were on softs while Max and Perez were stuck on mediums because their tires had cooled down way too much.

If a stylist gets taken down, they basically have themselves to blame.

When a band's stylist tries to set the rules, it’s never done with any actual tactical brilliance or class.

And when a stylist starts whining, venting, or throwing shade on the radio, you have to give them credit—they're being brave by going against their own team.

Honestly, when Max pulls stunts like that, he should be kicked out of the sport entirely.

Elizabeth Morales49 As requested:
A finger contaminated the wing.

Exactly.
That finger shouldn't have been there according to the rules. It’s all about respecting parc fermé protocols—you can't risk contaminating the evidence.
What exactly is it that you don't understand?

Elizabeth Morales49 (No input text provided to rewrite.)
So, your solution is to reward Lewis Hamilton—who’s basically just sitting there because of engine issues—while penalizing Max? Is that really how this works?

In that case, Max gets a free power unit too—which he’ll definitely need for the final stretch of the season anyway. 😉

Fernando Alonso had a decent start, and he's sitting right on Lewis's tail today 😁 I'm fairly certain he'll try to make a move somewhere... 😂

shadowmarlin22 said:The rule itself didn't change, per se—it was more that after that race, Whiting stepped in to clarify the interpretation, because back then it was definitely considered a gray area (you can check the forums if you need a refresher).

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ha...36978/4436978/

"My approach to racing is always the same," said Hamilton. "I think the ruling was fair at the [Malaysian] race, and the FIA and Charlie took I believe what was a fair decision, and gave us a warning for it not to happen again.

"I discussed with him [in China] and he made it clear that it is not what he wants to see, so we just don't do it again. It is a lesson learned and we move forward.

"Unfortunately the guys [the other drivers] - I don't understand why everyone was fussing about it but it wasn't really a problem for me."

When asked if he felt the other drivers had over-reacted, he said: "Yeah - they seemed to be talking about it for some time.

"It was with the ruling of how many times you can move with defending, but it is not clear what is defending and what is breaking the tow. Charlie has made it clear now and we won't be doing it."

Just tell Hamilton thanks for pointing out the loophole via tactical driving ☕ so these kinds of tricks don't keep happening. At least, not until the golden boy decides to try it himself...

Identifying a loophole in the regulations🤣
And so it goes, as Verstappen has once again brought it to everyone's attention...

https://mobile.twitter.com/f1talks/s...695754246?s=20

Haha. 😁

shadowmarlin22 said:Right, so Lewis is the Greatest of All Time, got it. We just look at the standings, how many times he's been on top, the pole positions, and so on. Thanks for clarifying, have a nice day.

Just how good that car actually is depends on his teammate's results—and the guy hasn't managed a single pole position, unlike Bottas...

Bottas is the faster driver; it was obvious in qualifying before this season started. 🤷
Perez might be better at tire management, but overall, Bottas is the more capable driver. One guy is in a Mercedes, while the other ended up at Williams acting like a fourth or fifth-stringer on the grid.
What Lewis is doing to Bottas doesn't mean Bottas is bad—it just shows how fantastic Lewis is. It's the exact same situation with Max and Perez; it's crystal clear that Lewis and Max are two classes above everyone else.

If we are looking at this through a purely statistical lens, one has to wonder if anyone has ever truly piloted a machine quite as dominant as the one he commanded. It really makes you pause and reflect, doesn't it? When you consider the sheer engineering superiority of that car, isn't it obvious that there are at least three drivers competing in today's field who, if placed behind the wheel of that exact same vehicle, would likely achieve identical results—if not even surpass them?
Can a driver truly claim the title of the Greatest of All Time if they have fundamentally lost a championship battle against their own teammate? It is a question that lingers in the mind, isn't it? One must wonder if the very essence of greatness requires a certain level of dominance within one's own garage, a sense of absolute supremacy over those sharing the same machinery. If you cannot emerge victorious against the person sitting in the car right next to you, can you really be considered the pinnacle of the sport?
When I consider who truly deserves the title of the Greatest of All Time, my mind immediately drifts toward the legends like Juan Manuel Fangio or Jim Clark. To me, those are the only names that carry such weight. Everything else we discuss lately feels somewhat beneath that level of greatness, doesn't it?

shadowmarlin22 said:Right, so Lewis is the Greatest of All Time, got it. We just look at the standings, how many times he's been on top, the pole positions, and so on. Thanks for clarifying, have a nice day.

Just how good that car actually is depends on his teammate's results—and the guy hasn't managed a single pole position, unlike Bottas...

Bottas is the faster driver; it was obvious in qualifying before this season started. 🤷
Perez might be better at tire management, but overall, Bottas is the more capable driver. One guy is in a Mercedes, while the other ended up at Williams acting like a fourth or fifth-stringer on the grid.
What Lewis is doing to Bottas doesn't mean Bottas is bad—it just shows how fantastic Lewis is. It's the exact same situation with Max and Perez; it's crystal clear that Lewis and Max are two classes above everyone else.

When one takes a moment to step back and examine the historical data regarding Valtteri Bottas's performance in teammate duels, does it not become clear how he fared against his contemporaries? If we look at the period just before Felipe Massa stepped away from the cockpit, Bottas certainly held his own, especially when compared to the era of pay-drivers like Pastor Maldonado. Furthermore, if we analyze the trajectory of Sergio Perez, isn't it evident that he consistently outperformed those he was paired with, such as Kamui Kobayashi, Nico Hulkenberg, Esteban Ocon, and Lance Stroll? One cannot help but wonder if these patterns of dominance are merely statistical anomalies or true reflections of driving caliber.
Is it not a curious thing to contemplate how Valtteri Bottas found himself within the ranks of Mercedes-Benz simply because Toto Wolff held the reins? It seems his tenure there was defined by that leadership, and yet, now he finds himself departing from the team entirely. One cannot help but wonder, as we look toward the future, just how much "excellence" he might actually bring to the table during his time at Alfa Romeo?

Stylist. 🙂

😂😂

🤣

shadowmarlin22 said:Man, seeing people take shots like this out of nowhere—just straight-up dragging the GOAT for no reason—is getting old. 🤦🤦

Let’s not forget—this was a race back in 2010. Back then, weaving on the track to break a tow was basically a gray area—which is just a polite way of saying it was brilliant tactics and finding a loophole in the rulebook. Of course, the regulations have shifted since then. Nowadays, any sudden change in direction for any reason is an immediate red flag, so trying to equate that old move with what Max did is just plain nonsense.
Let's take another crack at this.

If we were on Facebook, I’d give this post a like. 👍

Jason Campbell70 said:https://mobile.twitter.com/f1talks/s...695754246?s=20

Haha. 😁

There remains one rather significant distinction to be made here: Verstappen's car actually managed to pass its technical inspection successfully.

graniteharbor502 said:If we are looking at this through a purely statistical lens, one has to wonder if anyone has ever truly piloted a machine quite as dominant as the one he commanded. It really makes you pause and reflect, doesn't it? When you consider the sheer engineering superiority of that car, isn't it obvious that there are at least three drivers competing in today's field who, if placed behind the wheel of that exact same vehicle, would likely achieve identical results—if not even surpass them?
Can a driver truly claim the title of the Greatest of All Time if they have fundamentally lost a championship battle against their own teammate? It is a question that lingers in the mind, isn't it? One must wonder if the very essence of greatness requires a certain level of dominance within one's own garage, a sense of absolute supremacy over those sharing the same machinery. If you cannot emerge victorious against the person sitting in the car right next to you, can you really be considered the pinnacle of the sport?
When I consider who truly deserves the title of the Greatest of All Time, my mind immediately drifts toward the legends like Juan Manuel Fangio or Jim Clark. To me, those are the only names that carry such weight. Everything else we discuss lately feels somewhat beneath that level of greatness, doesn't it?

When one takes a moment to step back and examine the historical data regarding Valtteri Bottas's performance in teammate duels, does it not become clear how he fared against his contemporaries? If we look at the period just before Felipe Massa stepped away from the cockpit, Bottas certainly held his own, especially when compared to the era of pay-drivers like Pastor Maldonado. Furthermore, if we analyze the trajectory of Sergio Perez, isn't it evident that he consistently outperformed those he was paired with, such as Kamui Kobayashi, Nico Hulkenberg, Esteban Ocon, and Lance Stroll? One cannot help but wonder if these patterns of dominance are merely statistical anomalies or true reflections of driving caliber.
Is it not a curious thing to contemplate how Valtteri Bottas found himself within the ranks of Mercedes-Benz simply because Toto Wolff held the reins? It seems his tenure there was defined by that leadership, and yet, now he finds himself departing from the team entirely. One cannot help but wonder, as we look toward the future, just how much "excellence" he might actually bring to the table during his time at Alfa Romeo?

Hey dear Moderator, Fangio actually lost his championship battle to his teammate Giuseppe Farina—you know, the guy some people call "The Doctor."

Since we're already digging through the archives and debating how rules get implemented and interpreted, I'll toss my two cents into the ring:

Formula 1 bans moving under braking following complaints regarding Max Verstappen

Following driver pushback against Max Verstappen’s defensive maneuvers, Formula 1 has officially prohibited moving while braking.

While the driver from the Netherlands has made this tactic his signature move during battles with competitors, several other drivers have voiced concerns that it is incredibly hazardous.

Given the string of controversies surrounding the 19-year-old this season, this change will likely be dubbed the "Verstappen rule."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

Five years later, and it seems Verstappen hasn't learned much.
He'll learn eventually, though. Once he hits another wall.

Today’s F1 management is running a complete farce. 🙏
It’s pretty obvious they’re stalling on a decision, desperately hunting for any tiny excuse to avoid handing Lewis Hamilton a penalty. They know if they let this go, the championship fight is effectively dead.
The next few races are basically just going to be a formality, a slow procession leading up to the final lap in Las Vegas where we officially crown Max Verstappen as the champion.

I believe we all noticed how Lewis was practically dragging himself to his starting position
but of course, the reason behind it was immediately obvious. though, just as you pointed out...
it was likely against the regulations, but what can you do? I can't bring myself to wish an additional penalty on him just yet.
that would be excessive; it is much easier to simply overlook it as 🙄

wiredjackal12 said:Fernando Alonso had a decent start, and he's sitting right on Lewis's tail today 😁 I'm fairly certain he'll try to make a move somewhere... 😂

I would say the exact same thing
but then I remember how he started during last night's sprint race, looking like a total sloth
so... yeah... 🤷
But honestly, I'm rooting for the old man; I love seeing him back at the top. He's a legend.
And nothing beats the feeling of watching Vettel - Raikkonen - Alonso lined up one after another in a race like the last one 🎉

https://www.pitpass.com/71278/Red-Bu...Mercedes-speed

There's a new drama brewing on the docks 🎉 🤦

Maybe this time they should just let Sergio Perez go ahead and inspect everything thoroughly and get to the bottom of it, rather than 😳
🙄

Elizabeth Mendoza said:It’s funny how these fashionista fanboys conveniently forget everything their golden boy used to say and do back in his rookie days.

The modern, politically correct "experts" and style icons have clearly scrubbed his memory clean.

What Max did today is exactly what everyone else does when they want to break a rule. Charles Leclerc was the absolute master of this, and Max’s response was pure sarcasm because he knew exactly what he was doing.

I guess you just have to be a spineless little robot these days.

If Kimi had given an answer like that, people would be rolling on the floor laughing and calling him a total legend.

Hypocrites, the lot of them.

Post that video where Leclerc went through that same cycle four times in a row...