São Paulo Grand Prix (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) | November 12-14, 2021

shadowmarlin22 said:What kind of defense is that? The guy was on the inside line and couldn't even make the turn within the track limits—he drifted wide instead. Of course, the driver on the outside has to take an even wider line to compensate. It’s pure, unadulterated pushing him off the track.

There was zero contact there. They were both just following their respective racing lines.

bluepuma9 said:Lance Stroll is actually the best driver out there right now—he snatched pole in those absolute nightmare conditions in Turkey and was leading the race with a massive gap before the track finally dried out🙏

Whatever, honestly—one lucky break caused by random weekend chaos doesn't prove anything about who the best driver actually is. You've got the current leader, then you've got Ricciardo looking like a hero at Monza after Max Verstappen let Lewis Hamilton dive right past him, not to mention Esteban Ocon's run in Canada after that total disaster. It's impossible to even pick one when there's such a massive pool of supposedly "elite" drivers. Besides, what does the term "best driver" even mean in a sport that relies so heavily on stuff that has nothing to do with actual driving talent? There’s just a guy who happens to have the most points this season. Right now, that's Max Verstappen. End of story.

Man, there’s no way Mercedes-Benz is moving this fast

graniteharbor502 said:By that same logic, Lewis Hamilton shouldn't have been awarded points in the United Kingdom either, because isn't it equally absurd to grant points to a driver who essentially knocked his direct rival out of the race? 🤷
Lewis Hamilton walked away from that one with points he didn't truly deserve...

If you had asked me, that race at Spa-Francorchamps should have been completed rather than being called off entirely.

No, no way. That comparison doesn't hold water. A better way to look at it might be if you fouled an opponent and ended up winning anyway. Like how Ramos Salah did in the LP final—totally wrecked them early on and then walked away with the win.
Hamilton was punished for what he did (not saying whether the penalty itself was fair or whatever), while Max isn't being punished for messing with Lewis in Brazil, and he's even getting rewarded for a victory at Spa that he didn't even finish driving.
Hamilton got penalized (we can argue about the penalty later)—Max didn't. End of story.
A crash? If Hamilton hadn't headed to the stands (since he's clearly not in the mood to see both of them DNF right now), it would've been the exact same situation as in the United Kingdom.

I honestly think Max’s haters have finally gone into hiding to go change their underwear after that absolute masterclass.

I honestly think Toto needs a serious shake-up. It’s time for a fresh start.

graniteharbor502 said:By that same logic, Lewis Hamilton shouldn't have been awarded points in the United Kingdom either, because isn't it equally absurd to grant points to a driver who essentially knocked his direct rival out of the race? 🤷
Lewis Hamilton walked away from that one with points he didn't truly deserve...

If you had asked me, that race at Spa-Francorchamps should have been completed rather than being called off entirely.

Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

fadedwalker18 said:There was zero contact there. They were both just following their respective racing lines.

Yeah, sure—try following a racing line in the next corner without jerking the wheel too hard...

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

The image speaks louder than a thousand words:

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

What exactly are you even rambling about? 🙄

If they pull off the win here with the fastest lap, that’s a swing of about 13 points, if I'm doing the math right.

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

Look, mellowtiger83, I’m actually surprised by you. Where is this coming from?

America is a Catholic nation, sure, but it isn't a Catholic state.

Article 1 of the U.S. Constitution basically says all religious institutions are equal before the law and separate from the government.
The Constitution doesn't single out the Catholic Church or give it any special status over other faiths. So, the United States can't be a Catholic state; it's a secular one.

Besides, even a Master would know to say: "Keep politics out of my shop!"

It’s probably a good thing Max managed to hold onto the lead—Mercedes seems to be looking pretty fast lately, I guess.

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

It would've been smarter for Max to back off, but since he was leading and on the racing line, Lewis had to move. There was room there, which was the whole argument for why he should've been penalized for the collision.

If you ask me, he was hoping for a collision like this—he's practically a specialist at clipping a rival's rear tire (just look at what happened with Alexander Albon in Austria, among other times). He studied Max during the sprint and just waited for an opening; forcing that move on the inside before Copse wasn't an accident.

As for the penalty, it's incomparable because a collision actually happened here, whereas it didn't there. If both drivers had just slid off at Silverstone and kept racing, everyone would've forgotten about it by the end of the GP.

wiredseal7 said:It would've been smarter for Max to back off, but since he was leading and on the racing line, Lewis had to move. There was room there, which was the whole argument for why he should've been penalized for the collision.

If you ask me, he was hoping for a collision like this—he's practically a specialist at clipping a rival's rear tire (just look at what happened with Alexander Albon in Austria, among other times). He studied Max during the sprint and just waited for an opening; forcing that move on the inside before Copse wasn't an accident.

As for the penalty, it's incomparable because a collision actually happened here, whereas it didn't there. If both drivers had just slid off at Silverstone and kept racing, everyone would've forgotten about it by the end of the GP.

And let's not forget how he made things even worse for Charles Leclerc, stealing his position while the guy was busy trying to avoid a crash. Then you have teams wondering why it's considered taboo to slam into someone's wheel right at the apex.🤦

James Collins said:Nobody is even saying that. The actual point—which you guys are either totally ignoring or just twisting around—is that nobody was supposed to get points for that race at all.
It’s like two football teams head out for warmups, the weather is right on the edge of being unplayable, things get worse mid-way through, and then the ref and the crew decide it’s too risky and call the whole thing off after a few minutes. Then later, they announce the favorite gets 1.5 points (half a win) and the underdog gets 0.5 (half a draw).
Sounds stupid, right? Would the favorite have won? Who knows.
It’s just plain dumb to hand out points when the game didn't even happen.
Same goes for giving points for a race that wasn't actually driven.
Honestly, I don't care if Lewis is better, Max is better, or if a literal saint is better. The point is, someone got points they didn't earn.

That soccer comparison doesn't really hold water; there's zero connection there. Soccer has its own rules where, for instance, if an actor causes a stoppage, the result might be recorded as a 3-0 win for the other side. F1 rules are specific—they require counting laps because you can't just stop counting while people are burning through fuel.

Second off, the race was run according to the rules; there just wasn't enough momentum to let them go without the SCa. You have to let them clear the water off the track if you want a race, but you can't just freeze the lap count while drivers are draining their fuel and wearing down components. It's the regulations.

Thirdly, with that much rain, it would have been a flying start, meaning Max would have pulled away and Lewis would have been stuck in the pack.

Fourth, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I doubt most fans were happy about the race being stopped, especially since so many of us grew up on "vintage F1" and those epic races where everything went sideways.

James Collins said:No, no way. That comparison doesn't hold water. A better way to look at it might be if you fouled an opponent and ended up winning anyway. Like how Ramos Salah did in the LP final—totally wrecked them early on and then walked away with the win.
Hamilton was punished for what he did (not saying whether the penalty itself was fair or whatever), while Max isn't being punished for messing with Lewis in Brazil, and he's even getting rewarded for a victory at Spa that he didn't even finish driving.
Hamilton got penalized (we can argue about the penalty later)—Max didn't. End of story.
A crash? If Hamilton hadn't headed to the stands (since he's clearly not in the mood to see both of them DNF right now), it would've been the exact same situation as in the United Kingdom.

He hit the wall hard; the kid ended up in the hospital, and the car was basically a pile of junk along with all its internal components. Neither Senna nor Charles Leclerc "killed" their opponents like that.🤔

He got a 10-second penalty for sending that guy into the wall, and to make matters worse, he tried to take out Charles Leclerc, which was nowhere near a serious attempt.🤔

James Collins said:No, no way. That comparison doesn't hold water. A better way to look at it might be if you fouled an opponent and ended up winning anyway. Like how Ramos Salah did in the LP final—totally wrecked them early on and then walked away with the win.
Hamilton was punished for what he did (not saying whether the penalty itself was fair or whatever), while Max isn't being punished for messing with Lewis in Brazil, and he's even getting rewarded for a victory at Spa that he didn't even finish driving.
Hamilton got penalized (we can argue about the penalty later)—Max didn't. End of story.
A crash? If Hamilton hadn't headed to the stands (since he's clearly not in the mood to see both of them DNF right now), it would've been the exact same situation as in the United Kingdom.

This is just 🤦 Honestly, I’m a bit stunned by this narrative you guys have about how Lewis avoids contact when he's on the outside. ☕

When you're on the outside trying to push past someone's absolute limit, you're in the same boat as Lewis in Austria, where he tore his front wing against Rosberg and had to decide whether to risk a puncture. In almost any other scenario, you either lose your wing entirely, or you bounce off his tires and get sent wide; if you catch a rear tire, the car is going to lift or flip you onto the roof...

Sure, you could clip a rear wheel like Lewis did at Silverstone, but if you're coming from the outside, you'll likely just bounce straight into the path of his car...

There is simply no way the situation in Brazil ends up like the one in the United Kingdom. Max Verstappen holds the apex ahead of Lewis Hamilton, which effectively turns it into Max Verstappen's corner.

Kyle Lopez2 said:And let's not forget how he made things even worse for Charles Leclerc, stealing his position while the guy was busy trying to avoid a crash. Then you have teams wondering why it's considered taboo to slam into someone's wheel right at the apex.🤦

There’s an example right here—kind of like that one from a month ago (around the 0:25 mark):


Principled Toto wasn't exactly whining and crying like he is now—not even close.

Kyle Lopez2 said:That soccer comparison doesn't really hold water; there's zero connection there. Soccer has its own rules where, for instance, if an actor causes a stoppage, the result might be recorded as a 3-0 win for the other side. F1 rules are specific—they require counting laps because you can't just stop counting while people are burning through fuel.

Second off, the race was run according to the rules; there just wasn't enough momentum to let them go without the SCa. You have to let them clear the water off the track if you want a race, but you can't just freeze the lap count while drivers are draining their fuel and wearing down components. It's the regulations.

Thirdly, with that much rain, it would have been a flying start, meaning Max would have pulled away and Lewis would have been stuck in the pack.

Fourth, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I doubt most fans were happy about the race being stopped, especially since so many of us grew up on "vintage F1" and those epic races where everything went sideways.

He hit the wall hard; the kid ended up in the hospital, and the car was basically a pile of junk along with all its internal components. Neither Senna nor Charles Leclerc "killed" their opponents like that.🤔

He got a 10-second penalty for sending that guy into the wall, and to make matters worse, he tried to take out Charles Leclerc, which was nowhere near a serious attempt.🤔

This is just 🤦 Honestly, I’m a bit stunned by this narrative you guys have about how Lewis avoids contact when he's on the outside. ☕

When you're on the outside trying to push past someone's absolute limit, you're in the same boat as Lewis in Austria, where he tore his front wing against Rosberg and had to decide whether to risk a puncture. In almost any other scenario, you either lose your wing entirely, or you bounce off his tires and get sent wide; if you catch a rear tire, the car is going to lift or flip you onto the roof...

Sure, you could clip a rear wheel like Lewis did at Silverstone, but if you're coming from the outside, you'll likely just bounce straight into the path of his car...

There is simply no way the situation in Brazil ends up like the one in the United Kingdom. Max Verstappen holds the apex ahead of Lewis Hamilton, which effectively turns it into Max Verstappen's corner.

It’s because Max didn't brake in time—or hard enough—which is why he drifted out to the outside of the turn. Honestly, it looked like he didn't even turn the wheel as much as he could have. Meanwhile, Lewis braked early at Silverstone (actually, he should have braked even earlier, which makes him mostly responsible for the collision), so what started as them being side-by-side turned into Max being in front, cutting off the line when he swung toward Lewis. He still had room on the outside! If he had driven like Lewis did in Brazil—backing off and giving space—they both would have made the corner. Silverstone was on both of them (though Lewis carries more weight there, isn't that how the stewards mostly ruled?), but Brazil? That's entirely on Max. He should have been punished.

I honestly don't get why they're dragging their feet on the penalty for Max Verstappen. The whole thing is open and shut.

Patrick Taylor9 said:I honestly don't get why they're dragging their feet on the penalty for Max Verstappen. The whole thing is open and shut.

It’s pretty straightforward: when one single team just absolutely dominates, it kills interest in Formula 1. Less excitement means less money coming in.

People are just getting sick and tired of Mercedes-Benz, Toto Wolff, and Lewis Hamilton.

👍

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

Rosberg was also out in Austria back in '16, stuck on his own line.🤣 Yuki Tsunoda was also right at the apex when he clipped half of Lance Stroll's car. Honestly, you just have to dive in, hit an early apex, and floor it—make Stroll be the one to dodge you.🤣



You’re saying if Max hadn't taken himself out, he would have had the advantage. 🤦 Remind us again about how Charles Leclerc managed to stay on track and avoid taking himself out. 🤔

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

If you sat down in a meeting with any group of professional drivers and showed them footage of Lewis Hamilton, then asked if he could realistically overtake Max Verstappen in Copse corner—considering there isn't even a braking zone there—you'd get some pretty interesting reactions. The answer is no. There isn't a braking zone there, so you can't make up enough ground to get ahead at the apex just so you can "hit the racing line."

If you still haven't realized after thirty years behind the wheel that you're eventually going to cause an accident—and more importantly, have a rough idea of what kind of wreck that might be—then you’re honestly just being reckless.

mellowtiger83 said:Lewis didn't knock anyone off the track in the United Kingdom; he was on his racing line WITHIN THE TRACK, and Max essentially took himself out by steering into the space occupied by the car. If he hadn't had the advantage leading up to the next corner—which is a left, his inside line—it would have been different.
We are talking about speeds well over 200km/h here, and if you actually intend to convince me that Lewis intentionally forced Max off at that velocity, then we really have nothing left to discuss.
In Brazil, Max's intention is obvious, INTENTIONAL in all caps.

Just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can delete my posts, especially since you know exactly what I wrote.

If this forum doesn't allow insults based on nationality, race, or whatever else, why are you doing it right in the middle of a Catholic nation?

The whole idea behind a dive is just to hit that racing line right at the apex and carry that momentum all the way through the turn. Honestly, fuck yeah. That’s been the standard for fifty years.

wiredseal7 said:There’s an example right here—kind of like that one from a month ago (around the 0:25 mark):

Principled Toto wasn't exactly whining and crying like he is now—not even close.

Looking back at that, I honestly can't help but think what an idiot Sergio Perez was being.🤦 Lewis would have just slammed the brakes at the first corner, taken an early apex, or maybe missed it by a meter or two just to get half a car length advantage, then floored it and pushed Perez toward the blue line—but he definitely wouldn't have let him dive down the outside.🤣

Martin Brundle would have probably just laughed it off, and they'd call it "lingering on the racing line," while later during the analysis, Rosberg would just chuckle and say you can't force Lewis into a gap on the outside.🤣.....

It’s not like we haven't seen this movie before.

Here’s another interesting one. Mexico City 19 when Lewis pushed Max Verstappen and himself onto the grass without getting any penalty at all. 🤣