Bad Boys - Part IV

Man... honestly, just leave me alone. The whole vibe here regarding enrollment is completely delusional—most of this forum is totally out of touch. We’ve basically devolved into nothing but people trying to act all high and mighty and lecture everyone else.

Taylor Sanchez3 said:I think I read somewhere that getting into a voluntary brawl isn't actually a crime...

Actually, participating in a fight is definitely a criminal offense.

Paul Young5 said:getting involved in a fight is actually a criminal offense.

Look, I'm no legal expert or anything—but I don't think it applies to every single scrap... I mean, it probably depends on how bad someone got hurt, and in our case, whether it even falls under those stadium riot laws...
again, I'm no expert

Bradley Davis69 said:Look, I’m no legal expert or anything... but I don't think you can just apply that to every single scrap. It really comes down to how bad someone gets hurt, right? And in our situation, we gotta wonder if it even falls under the Sports Bribery Act...
again, I'm no expert

That's not even the point here. The real issue—the actual headache—is that if they start rounding people up in some random field or park just to throw them in front of a judge under those fan riot laws, we're screwed. There's a massive difference between getting into a fight and being targeted by the cops just because you belong to a certain group out in the city...

Bradley Davis69 said:— I guess, in our situation, does the Sports Bribery Act even apply?

Local Police Department officers just wrapped up an investigation involving about 110 people—they're suspected of participating in brawls or causing property damage during a game, which falls under the Sports Bribery Act.

Jonathan Lewis3 said:I am never going to a game again unless this stuff actually gets written into some kind of constitutional amendment.

The Ultra is the most honorable group in the country, and you all can say whatever you want—honestly. We all know how the Bad Boys behaved back in small-town Ohio, or when they were looking for trouble in Chicago... which is exactly what happened when they showed up in Philly or even at the last stadium, despite being outnumbered three to one.

The Ultra was unarmed at the last spot, and that almost cost us a massive brawl. But seriously, it’s just insane to be debating this while guys are sitting in a jail cell right now.

Look, I already said I’m not against weapons on principle, but we really need to scale them back because someone is eventually going to get absolutely wrecked. I don't see why we should try to imitate those groups over in Europe or elsewhere—people who just slaughter and kill each other. The whole point of fan rivalries isn't to leave someone permanently disabled or dead. These guys overseas think they’re so tough because they carry weapons, but if they ever ran into some Russians or Poles, they’d be wiped out instantly. Generally speaking, weapons just give an edge to people who aren't physically prepared—realistically, some random kid could jump you with a stick and win the fight. Without weapons, that’s impossible; the kid might take a couple of slaps and then go home crying to his mom for lunch. 😁

My take? A combination of both would be best. That said, we should be slowly reducing the weaponry. These recent clashes prove that instead of decreasing, the violence is actually ramping up. I’m certain that in a few years, if people keep acting this stupid, someone is going to get seriously hurt. Who is the "winner" in a conflict where someone ends up dead from a stabbing or a shooting? We need to ditch those old-school violent traditions right now. Just because they think they’re hard because they walk around with guns and knives is their business, but I don't want us sinking to that level—to the point where we show up to a stadium fueled by pure hatred just to kill each other. And honestly, it will happen if these kids don't get reined in. There are older fans around, sure, but the younger generation is definitely dominating the weapon game. So, we need more control, though I know—believe me, I know—that it's probably impossible and won't change a thing. The older generation just doesn't have any influence over the kids anymore, which is part of the problem. You can't just "educate" them; everyone is living in their own little movie and doesn't care about real-world consequences.

As for that small-town incident and your point about weapon usage—I don't know why you're lecturing us when you guys are the ones constantly shouting about it. From firecrackers to throwing rocks from the stands, your crowd makes projectiles a specialty. I remember once being in a situation where I almost took a firecracker to the head because one of your guys launched it right past my face. This is serious stuff, and some people have zero clue what they're doing; they have absolutely no self-control. Obviously, you shouldn't ban everything entirely, but regulation is necessary. Like I said, I can see the merit in both styles, but everything needs to be moderate. We need to be ready for the street fights against Italians or whoever else we might run into. And regarding the stuff about Russians or Poles—you have to stay in shape for all kinds of crews that practice different styles. Some people would say if you aren't keeping up with the trends, you aren't "cool." You have to be ready for any kind of clash, which is why I support both approaches, provided it's done in a way that doesn't result in deaths. If we keep going like this, there's zero guarantee we won't end up there.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...43797296_n.jpg

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Fine, I’ll admit it—I was wrong on this one! I recall reading somewhere that consensual fights aren't technically considered criminal offenses, though there is a subtle legal distinction between being "at fault" and committing a "crime," provided certain ground rules are followed. For instance, if a participant hits the canvas and stops resisting, shifting instead to a purely defensive posture, the aggressor loses any perceived right to keep swinging.

What you read applies strictly to sanctioned combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, or the UFC. Those occur within a regulated framework, so they aren't prosecuted. Outside of those organized environments, however, you can be held liable for any fight, whether it results in a misdemeanor or a full-blown felony charge.

Paul Young5 said:Officers from the local Police Department finished their investigation into 110 people—all suspected of participating in a brawl or attacking property at a game, which falls under the Sports Bribery Act.

yeah... I mean, depends on how they'd handle it if it happened out in the sticks.. since this is way outside of NYC and they're still slapping them with that sports riot law stuff..

If you guys reach an agreement on this forum, I’m sure it carries weight out on the street, too. But look at it this way: why would I get into a fistfight if someone like Juice WRLD jumped me? He’s twice my size and significantly taller; one punch from him is a knockout blow. Why wouldn't I just grab a brick instead of letting some guy kill me with his bare hands? At a certain point, a brick is just a heavy-duty fist, and vice versa.

Jeremy Thomas4 said:Look, if a group actually reaches an agreement on a forum, you can bet your life that carries over to the streets; that much is certain. But let’s look at the reality of the situation here—why on earth would I, for instance, decide to square up and trade punches with someone like Juice WRLD if he decided to jump me? He’s easily twice my size and significantly taller, so every single hit he lands is essentially a knockout blow for me. Why wouldn't I just grab a brick instead of letting some tough guy knock me out with his fists? You see, for someone in my position, a brick effectively becomes a fist, and vice versa.

Precisely. You go out there to fight with your hands and you end up getting knocked cold. You'll likely walk away beaten senseless, though since you're a die-hard fan, I suppose you should be used to that kind of thing by now. But let's be clear: you don't use a brick under any circumstances because, frankly, you're still a total amateur. If you aren't looking for a brawl, then simply don't get into one. Go back to designing choreographies or painting flags on poles; there's plenty of ways to be useful without catching a beating. Nobody is forcing you to throw down with Juice WRLD or anyone else of his ilk. It’s your choice, and it’s the choice of your crew. Or, alternatively, you could actually spend years training and gaining real experience until you're the one doing the knocking out. 😉

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Exactly. You step up to trade punches and you’ll likely end up getting knocked out. Honestly, you’ll probably get beaten up, but since you're a fan, I assume you're used to taking hits. Just don't even think about using a brick—you're clearly out of your league. If you aren't looking for a fight, then don't pick one. Go back to designing choreography or painting flags on poles; there’s more utility in that. Nobody is forcing you to go toe-to-toe with Juice WRLD or anyone else like him. That’s your call and your crew's call. Or, you could actually spend years training to gain some experience so you're the one doing the knocking out. 😉

No thanks. I have zero interest in getting jumped or knocked unconscious if I can help it. My point is simply this: someone else's fist is the equivalent of my brick. Do you follow me?

Jeremy Thomas4 said:Look, I’m not asking anyone to come over and knock me out if it can be avoided. But my point is simple: someone else's fist is just as much a part of the equation to me as a brick would be to them. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Just pump yourself full of steroids and aim for the top, right? >
Based on how things are looking, wouldn't NegA be facing some kind of ban for this, or am I totally misreading the situation?

Jeremy Thomas4 said:Look, if you guys make a pact on a forum, I’m sure that carries weight out on the street too. But think about it logically—why would I get into a fistfight with someone like Joe called Whitebull if he decided to jump me? He’s twice my size and significantly taller than I am; one punch from him is basically a knockout blow, so why wouldn't I just pick up a brick instead of letting some guy knock me out with his hands? You see, for some people, a brick is just a heavy-duty fist, and vice versa.

With that kind of logic, you're definitely not going to knock him out... not when every single die-hard fan is built like Whitebull.😍

Jeremy Thomas4 said:Look, I’d much rather someone just give me a quick punch or knock me out if they absolutely have to, but the point is this: someone else's fist to my face is essentially the same thing as me throwing a brick at them. You catch my drift?

I hear what you're saying, truly, but at the same time, I can't help but view that stance as somewhat cowardly. I'm not judging you—really, I'm not—but a brick isn't the answer here. The fundamental issue seems to be that you guys are terrified of catching a beating at any cost, and while I get that, if that's the case, then the whole hardcore supporter scene probably isn't your cup of tea. If you aren't willing to go toe-to-toe with fists and feet, then maybe stay away from the hooliganism and the brawls altogether. Like I’ve mentioned before, this lifestyle isn't for everyone, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Furthermore, anyone who actually follows the American ultra scene knows exactly how much muscle certain top-tier clubs carry compared to others. There are the heavy hitters, and then there are the smaller outfits. It isn't always the same crews clashing, nor is it always the same provocations being accepted. But the brick? That's a hard no—along with bottles, knives, sticks, wrenches, chains, brass knuckles, or telescopic batons... just leave all that junk at home. You won't achieve a single damn thing with those tools except ensuring that, sooner or later, you get hit back with the exact same level of violence. Honestly, there's more dignity in taking a direct punch to the jaw than getting pelted by a stone from five yards away.

Cheers everyone, I think I've made my point. I want to wish you all a Happy Easter! 🙂

Jeremy Thomas4 said:Look, if we settle things on this forum, it carries over to the streets too—that’s a given. But think about it: why would I get into a fistfight with someone like Joe called Whitebull if he jumped me? He’s twice my size and way taller. One hit from him and it’s lights out. Why wouldn't I just grab a brick instead of letting some tough guy knock my head off with his bare hands? To me, a brick is just a better kind of fist.

Clearly you're young and haven't seen much yet... being big and strong doesn't mean someone actually has guts. You'll learn eventually: the bigger they are, the harder they fall.😉

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Look, I get it—you’re terrified of getting into a scrap, and honestly, I don't blame you. But if that's how you feel, then maybe being a die-hard fan just isn't your thing.

The average fan has never actually wanted to be a pro fighter—whether that’s MMA, boxing, or whatever else. If they really wanted that, they’d be out there training like an athlete, which I guess is just the fundamental difference between a fan and a competitor. An average fan is more like your typical guy at a local neighborhood bar—sometimes they get into a scrap, sometimes someone swings an ashtray or a beer bottle. It’s been that way since the beginning of time. Trying to impose ring rules on the street just to turn a bunch of fans into "athletes" is, frankly, pretty ridiculous. If you don't get that, then fan culture probably isn't for you—and honestly, maybe even grabbing a beer at the local pub isn't your scene either. You're clearly more interested in the rings and the actual pros. Now, look, I'm not saying we should condone using things as weapons, but we also need to stop expecting fans to suddenly act like professional athletes. If someone is looking to avoid injury, they shouldn't be getting involved in the first place. Anyone who steps into the fray is probably already aware of the consequences.

Taylor Sanchez3 said:Also, anyone who actually follows the Russian scene probably knows exactly how much depth those top-ranked clubs really have.

Every scene is its own thing—the US scene is the US scene, Argentina is Argentina, Greece is Greece... they're all just different.

To those who think bricks and street thugs are the ultimate solution: you might be better off just bringing a bomb or an AK-47 to kill six flies with one shot...

The only time I’d justify a baton is if we were outnumbered and forced to defend ourselves, provided I don't end up getting beaten senseless with it myself...

If you play with fire, you're going to get burned...
Regarding what Zot mentioned—those of us from the older generation mostly moved past those neighborhood turf wars. Back then, things were pretty intense, but there was a mutual respect; nobody ever targeted anyone else... even Ria wouldn't look twice at us. Eventually, the BBB formed, and that energy migrated to the stadiums. Interestingly, once that happened, those local neighborhood disputes seemed to vanish, acting almost like a pressure valve. Every area had its own leaders. It was especially true on the outskirts near the Suburban neighborhood, where certain people actually needed daily passes just to get by...🤣

Regards...

John Martin18 said:For those people who think bricks or some random hooligan gear is the ultimate fix, maybe just bring a bomb or an AK next time. Kill six flies with one shot... more efficient.

The only way I’d justify using a baton is if we were outnumbered and fighting for our lives... and even then, only until someone hits me back with it.

If you play with fire, you get burned...
Here's my take. That guy Zot was saying how we're older and lived through those old neighborhood turf wars. It was intense, but nobody really messed with anyone else... even Riya didn't care. Then the BBB showed up and everything moved to the stadiums. Funny enough, once they arrived, those local street fights stopped because the BBB acted as a pressure valve. Every neighborhood had its own ringleaders. Even out on the edge of town in a Suburban neighborhood, where certain people actually needed daily passes just to get by.🤣

Sent from my phone.

Flekica and Ragib are just two sides of the same coin...😍

It’s always easiest to pick a fight with some half-mobile old man if you aren't exactly a heavyweight contender yourself. He’s basically a human punching bag, and he probably won't have the stamina to last more than a minute. Besides, if you realize you can't actually land a hit, you're definitely fast enough to 😁