2010 Bahrain Grand Prix

Mark Webber (6th, Q3 - 1m 55.284s)
“I absolutely choked my best lap right when it mattered most. Everything felt solid until I hit Turn 16, then it just fell apart. Seb crushed it for pole, though—honestly, we had more pace than what we showed for sixth. It sucks, but it's not over yet. We've still got a long race ahead of us tomorrow.
”
👋 Red Bull is hands down the fastest car on this track. There's zero doubt about it. 🙂

stormybadger8 said:👋 Red Bull is clearly the fastest car on track, there’s zero doubt about it 🙂

🤦

shadowstag10 said:how on earth can you think Alonso has the best time?
what kind of time are you even talking about?

His Q2 time is actually the fastest one recorded today... and since
and considering the fact that Q3 will be run in low-fuel configuration duo to The refuelling Ban, that gap I pointed out becomes incredibly interesting...

In the actual race, unlike the gap seen between Q2 and Q3, they'll be running with a full fuel load, so we might honestly need to adjust the Setup differently

Michael Lee4 said:Since we’re packing more cars onto the grid, they’ve decided to overhaul the qualifying format entirely. It’s going to work like this: seven drivers will get knocked out during the first session, another seven will be sent home after the second, and then—just like back in 2009—we'll see ten cars fighting it out in a final shootout for pole position. The third session will now be run in low-fuel configuration duo to The refuelling Ban, which honestly changes the entire complexion of how we’re looking at these times, because suddenly the weight advantage isn't there to buffer the raw pace, and I find it somewhat frustrating that we have to pivot our expectations mid-stream like this..

# Under the current regulations, any driver who manages to break into that elite top ten during qualifying is strictly obligated to kick off the race using the exact same set of tires they used to secure their position. It’s a rigid rule, honestly, and while some might argue it adds a layer of strategic complexity, I find it somewhat restrictive given how much variables change between qualifying trim and full race stints. But that's the landscape we're working with; you nail your lap on a specific compound, you're stuck with it when the lights go out.
Should any driver find themselves dealing with a damaged tyre during qualifying, the FIA technical delegate is going to step in to evaluate just how bad the situation actually is, and they might just grant permission for the car to swap out to a fresh set that they personally deem to be safe for track use.

I honestly don't see anything here that actually addresses the question regarding the different Setup used between Q2 and Q3.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/0...ne-at-bahrain/

Just saw this on Allen's blog—looks like this might be how things wrap up with the Renault engine. 🤷

hollowhawk412 said:Here’s what I think is actually worth watching

The only thing is, Massa looks way better in Q3 than he did in Q2

And Alonso is sitting on the fastest lap right now

There's this theory floating around that everyone basically dialed in their Setup
specifically for the race after Q2... apparently you can't mess with the Setup once Q3 hits

If anyone knows more about how that works, feel free to jump in...

http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/live_timing.html

Vettel - +0.3
Massa - -0.1
Alonso - +0.5
Lewis - +0.5
Rosberg - +0.6
Webber - +0.9
Schumi - +0.4
Button - +0.5
Kubica - +0.9
Sutil - +1.4

Yeah, that's exactly what caught my eye too... It's pretty obvious there's a massive gap between a one-lap flyer setup and something built for the long haul. That makes Massu's jump in Q3 even weirder. My guess? His team decided to go all-in, aiming for pole and trying to build enough of a gap to trigger an early pit stop strategy, but we'll see. Anyway, if nobody crashes or starts playing bumper cars, I'm calling it now—Massu is going to be the first of the leaders to dive into the pits tomorrow...

Also, rooting for Sutil to sneak into the points by the end of the race. 🙂

Does anyone have the data so we can compare this to last year's Las Vegas Grand Prix results and see how the lap times stack up?

It'd be pretty interesting to see those numbers side-by-side.

Adam King said:Does anyone have the data so we can compare it against last year's Las Vegas Grand Prix results? I want to see how much the lap times actually differ..

It would be pretty interesting to check that out...

Not really, though, especially considering all those changes they made to the track layout...

stormyviper11 said:Yeah, that was the part that really caught my eye too... It’s pretty obvious that the difference in Setup between a single flying lap and the full race distance is massive. That makes Massu's improvement in Q3 even more fascinating. I suspect his team decided to just go for broke, aiming for pole and trying to build enough of a gap to pull off an incredibly early pit stop, but we'll see how it plays out. Either way, assuming there isn't any contact or a puncture, I’m betting on Massu being the first of the leaders to dive into the pits tomorrow.

And I'm pulling for Adrian Sutil to grab some points by the end of the race. 🙂

I honestly don't even dare make a prediction...
Qualifying only tells us how fast a car is for one solitary lap; it doesn't account for tire degradation or how the car handles when it's running with a full fuel load 🤷
we really won't know until it actually happens.

Michael Lee4 said:Because they've added more cars to the grid, they’re overhaulng the qualifying format entirely, and honestly, it’s about time we saw some movement on this. Under the new structure, seven cars will be cut after the first session, followed by another seven being knocked out in the second, which leaves us with a ten-car shootout for pole position in the final session—much like the way things were handled back in 2009. It’s a massive shift, but given how bloated the field has become, it seems like the only logical way to ensure the tension actually stays high when it matters most. The third session will now be run in low-fuel configuration duo to The refuelling Ban, which honestly just complicates everything for the engineers who were already sweating through their shirts trying to nail the balance..

# The rules regarding the starting grid are quite clear: those top ten qualifiers are strictly required to kick off the race using the exact same set of tires they utilized during their qualifying run. It’s a rigid constraint, really, leaving very little room for tactical maneuvering when it comes to initial rubber selection.
If a tire ends up getting damaged during qualifying, the FIA technical delegate is going to step in to evaluate just how bad the situation is, and they might give the green light for the driver to swap out to a different set that they personally deem to be safe.

Actually, looking at it from another angle... that last bit in bold is pretty damn interesting.
It’s entirely possible that the Setup used in Q3 is actually prioritizing tire management through those initial stints rather than just chasing raw, single-lap pace.

stormyviper11 said:Yeah, that’s what caught my eye too... Clearly, there's a massive gap between a one-lap qualifying Setup and a race pace Setup. Makes Massu's jump in Q3 even more interesting. My guess is his team decided to go all-in for pole and try to build enough of a buffer to pit early, but we'll see. Assuming nobody crashes or hits anyone, I'm betting Massu is the first of the leaders to dive into the pits tomorrow.

What compounds were they running during qualifying? Softs or hards?

How many laps did anyone in the top 10 actually put down during qualifying?

Arthur Doyle70 said:Hope so ...👍

But we’re bleeding way too much time on the straights compared to our top speed... 🙂, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things shake out tomorrow...

yep, but you really have to wait for the race to figure out who actually has a fast car and who was just playing hero in qualifying😉

Sebastian Vettel is sitting there just cruising through—like, he’s basically got 14 laps of pure easy mode left.
Massa’s been out there for 16 laps on those softs—man, what a grind.
Man, seeing Alonso pull off those 20 soft-tyre laps... just absolute madness. Honestly, you have to respect the grind.
Lewis Hamilton was running on those soft tires for like 19 laps—absolute madness.
Nico Rosberg was just cruising through those 13 soft-tire laps—absolute madness.
Mark Webber—13 laps of pure, easy cruising.
Man, I still can't get over it—Michael Schumacher, just absolutely tearing through those 15 laps like a man possessed. It’s honestly wild to think about.
Jenson Button—17 laps of pure, unadulterated soft tire management.
Robert Kubica—17 laps of pure soft-tire madness.
Adrian Sutil—claims he's pulling 16 laps.

briskhound76 said:Yeah, but we really need to wait for the race to see who actually has the pace and who was just playing hero during qualifying to grab a headline.😉

Look, as things stand right now, we’re sitting in third, but honestly, we're bleeding way too much time on the straights. Plus, the car starts acting incredibly twitchy and unpredictable the second the track surface gets even a little bit slick.😁
We'll see what happens tomorrow... Given how much Red Bull's been chewing through tires and how heavy Ferrari's fuel loads look, we might actually snatch a podium if luck is on our side. 👍

briskhound76 said:Yeah, but we really need to wait for the race to see who actually has a fast car and who just showed up to flash their headlights during qualifying.😉

What would you even do? 😕

Everyone’s running qualifying on minimum fuel now. Since they banned refueling, there’s no more clever fuel strategy to play with—everyone just goes straight for the fastest lap. 😁

Honestly, all this talk about qualifying versus race Setup? I’m not buying it. How much speed could you actually gain during qualifying to make that kind of trade-off even worth considering? It feels like a stretch. 🤷

stormybadger8 said:which is exactly what 😕
would do.

Downforce differences, suspension setup (mainly camber), aero balance, brake bias... there's a lot to consider. 😉

Jason Campbell70 said:Downforce levels, suspension setup (mainly camber), aero balance, brake bias... there's a whole list. 😉

Okay, sure, but how much would any of that actually swing qualifying times? 🤷

Also, does the rulebook even say you can't tweak all that stuff after qualifying? 🤷

And even if they did forbid it, who's actually checking, and how?

Unless they lock every single car down until right before the race starts. 🤣

stormybadger8 said:which would be done just like 😕

Everyone’s running qualifying on basically empty tanks now. No more fuel weight gimmicks to pretend someone went for a heavy load; everyone is just going for the sprint 😁

And honestly, all this talk about specialized Setup for qualifying versus the race? I don't buy it. How much speed could you actually gain in qualifying to make that kind of effort worth it? 🤷

It makes sense though. Not everyone is going to handle an extra 440 pounds the same way, and tire wear isn't going to be identical since everyone drives differently...

How many pit stops are we even looking at? One or two? Before the season started, the consensus was that one stop should do it...

Michael Lee4 said:It makes sense. Not everyone is going to handle an extra 440 pounds the same way. Tire wear isn't one-size-fits-all, and since driving styles vary wildly, tire degradation won't be uniform either...

How many pit stops are we even looking at? One or two? Before the season started, everyone was predicting just a single stop...

Logic says at least two. 🤷

Last year, it was actually pretty rare to see both tire compounds hold up well enough to last half the race. Add this extra weight into the mix, and I wouldn't be shocked if we see three or four stops. 🤔

Though, let's be real: they probably don't have a clue. They'll likely just react on the fly. Most teams probably haven't even fully locked down a strategy for this yet. 🤷

stormybadger8 said:It’s all just five tenths. But seriously, how much could that actually impact qualifying times? 🤷

Of course they would.

In previous seasons, when everyone was running roughly the same starting weights, you’d see it happen: the track conditions would just hit perfectly for one specific car. Combine that with the right Setup, and suddenly, that car just finds its rhythm and performs. It's rare, but it happens.
We’re stuck in a tough spot. We have to set up the car for two completely opposite scenarios: one where the car is empty, and another where we're dealing with an extra 450 pounds of weight. How do you even begin to balance that?

stormybadger8 said:Besides that, does the rulebook even state that all of this is prohibited from being readjusted once qualifying is over? 🤷

Besides that, even if they wanted to prohibit it, who would actually enforce it? And more importantly, how could they even possibly control it?

Unless they decide to keep all the cars locked down until just before the race starts? 🤣

Parc ferme? We've been doing that for years now.