Hoof at NYSE 08/03/07

Look, once you’ve grown up, left your youth in the rearview, and settled into being a tired old man, you realize how illogical it is to claim that conceptually complex music is somehow inherently superior to naturally mindless stuff. Just because some three-chord punk kid, some isolated Japanese girl, or a glam rocker from the Øresund Bridge acts all cool while playing... it doesn't change the math. Stupid is stupid, and smart is smart. The labels "good" and "bad" don't necessarily have anything to do with either...

Honestly, I’m still sitting here wondering if mirzin is actually being serious about this whole flock thing, or if there's just some kind of hidden agenda at play. 🤔

@ Kevin Chavez3

There’s "stupid" and then there’s just plain idiotic.

It’s like comparing the ramblings of a toddler to a masterpiece by an abstract painter. Visually? Maybe they look similar if you're standing five feet back.

But one actually has intent behind it. That’s the whole point.

Kyle Jackson54 said:I mean, I’m still honestly sitting here wondering if mirzin’s flock is actually legit or if they're just playing us. 🤔

If people were all about Boney M back in the day, why couldn't this be serious business? And really, does it even matter 🙂 🙂

Anyway, Jope, I have to side with Kevin Chavez3; intentions don't really mean much in the end. What matters is the result and whether you can actually enjoy it.
I guess I'll defend anyone's right to take a massive dump on the work of the Ramones, John Zorn, or Stravinsky if it happens to be bad at what they do (not that I think they are—just using examples!) without being immediately labeled a snob just because they don't know how to appreciate the simple things. Sheesh.

Alex Scott22 said:But this second one actually knows what's going on. That's where the real wisdom lies.

forget art, let's just dance 🙂 and being young doesn't give you an excuse to be self-aware 😘

Nicholas Perez33 said:does it even matter 🙂 🙂

Straight up... if you have to decide whether a band is being ironic just to justify listening to them, you're a snob 😉 (generalizing here, I know zLi isn't a snob)

Has the revolution finally begun? 🙂

🍿

Kevin Chavez3 said:screw art, let's just dance 🙂 and being young doesn't excuse being oblivious 😘

Alright then, name a band you’ve danced to lately that lacks "awareness." ☕

The Ramones are a completely calculated project and concept. Some people see that, and some people just refuse to. 😉
Let's be honest, we're all just snobs. 🙂

: snob-rozi :

Kevin Chavez3 said:(I’m speaking in general terms here—I know zL isn't exactly a snob)

🙂

What an absolute fabrication—that's a total lie aimed right at me! 😬

Look, since I haven't actually listened to kopito—and I'm certainly not some die-hard fan of the other bands mentioned, either—I think I'll just bow out of this thread. I'll go start a different one somewhere else.

So, if that wasn't a planned project, how on earth did it end up on our desks in the first place?

Alex Scott22 said:Well, if that's the case, maybe you could suggest a band you've recently enjoyed dancing to that lacks any real "awareness."☕

The Ramones feel like a completely calculated project and concept. I suppose some people recognize that, while others might prefer not to see it.😉
We should probably just admit that we're all a bit snobbish, and 🙂

: snob-rozi :

😳
I guess he's telling the truth.

Nicholas Perez33 said:so if it wasn't calculated beforehand, how did it even reach us?

I didn't mean to frame that as a negative when talking about the Ramones, I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea. But fine... "calculated" might be too strong a word. Let's go with "intentional."

What didn't happen? Beats me. Ask kriv, he’s always going on about how things are spontaneous or unrefined or whatever.

Nicole Baker said:😳
The man is finally telling the truth...

Lies, idiots, and pure nonsense from 🙂

about all those mindless performers I find myself dancing to whenever the mood strikes: the Sugababes. Gold coins. Alice Cooper. Kuzma and Shaka Zulu. Shabani. Beyoncé. Šo! Mazgoon. Iron Maiden. Criminal activity. Miroslav Škoro. UB40. And whatever else... 👋

Kevin Chavez3 said:You're talking nonsense, pure idiocy 🙂

aboutthoseunconscious artists I happily dance to whenever the mood strikes: the Sugababes. Gold Dubs. Alice Cooper. Kuzma and Shaka Zulu. Shabani. Beyonce. Šo!Mazgoon. Iron Maiden. Criminal Activity. Miroslav Škoro. UB40. And all that junk. 👋

True! 👍 But that's just it... you have a conscious relationship with them.
You love them and they get you moving... they make the jerks hit the dance floor... but somewhere deep down, there's no real respect there. Why? Because they're just fluff.

The stranglers are water

The stranglers are the absolute worst 🙏 🙏 🙏

They’re brilliant at times—take "Skin Deep," for instance; it actually makes me want to get up and dance. But I'm not trying to be unfair here, it's just that when it comes to showing any actual respect to the Stranglers... 😬I can't even go there.

Jerry Patel6 said:If we’re really going to compare them to Matt Bulić—then I guess they're basically gods.

I don't know—I'm not really feeling this one. 🙂

Kevin Chavez3 said:I guess there isn't much to say yet—just waiting around, I suppose.Nah.The kind of wholesome artists I find myself dancing to whenever the mood strikes—Sugababes, gold records, Alice Cooper, maybe some old-school hip-hop, Beyoncé, Iron Maiden, UB40... and whatever else. 👋

I don't really see many unconscious people here—though I guess being unconscious while you're out there dancing is a slightly different story.

The Ramones are basically art—just because they can churn out those hits like that is impressive, whether it’s pure instinct or just calculated, I guess. 🙏 The same goes for Toxic or, say, Ćakdi. 🙏 )

Alex Scott22 said:You love them, they cheer you up... they drive the cowards into hiding... but somewhere deep down, you don't actually respect them. Why? Because they're nothing but fluff.

Well, I just realized people are trying to claim I lack any genuine respect for Iron Maiden and the Sugababels😲 but it’s honestly embarrassing that you think you know me well enough to assume I listen to Maiden with some sort of ironic detachment?🙂

Kevin Chavez3 said:if you feel like you need to know ahead of time whether a band is being ironic just to justify listening to them, then you're just being a snob. 😉

I actually see it the exact opposite way; I can't afford to know if a band is playing it ironic. I’ve always had a hard time with bands that are overtly ironic, like those rock groups 😢
who suddenly announce in a New York Times editorial one day that they were actually being satirical all along—it’s just 🙂 😢
ridiculous, isn't it?

Kevin Chavez3 said:Oh, I just noticed people are actually trying to claim I don't have genuine respect for Iron Maiden and the Sugababes. 😲 You can't be serious if you think you know me well enough to believe I’m listening to Maiden with a sense of irony. 🙂

Look, you don't actually know that yet either. Just admit it to yourself. Let it out. We’re your friends—we aren't here to hurt you. 😍

Talk about some psychoanalysis right in the middle of kopito, haha.