Hoof at NYSE 08/03/07

What exactly is the issue with Warner Bros. listening to Metallica without some sort of ironic detachment? And why shouldn't I join him in doing the exact same thing? 🙂

Jerry Patel6 said:Kopito is solid, and in my book, they actually beat out George and whatever John Jakopač is trying to pull lately under the names John and Mazgun. Now, the Mazgoons were top-tier, even if they lost their edge a bit. George is basically just a commercial vehicle for Max Jurcic, who took some local joke and realized he could turn it into a full-blown spectacle. And don't even get me started on the endless sea of unknown bands trying to rip off this sound—trust me, I get way too many demo CDs in the mail.
That being said, Kopito nails their specific genre. And if you consider Kopito "pop" music, then the bar is even lower, because they’re still better than Zecic, Matthew Bulic, Madonna, Minea, or Jelena Rozga...

What John is doing now isn't even worth discussing; it’s just small-time bar band stuff with zero long-term vision. But man, the Mazgoons? They were a legitimate band. Their first studio album is easily one of the top 10 American releases since 1990, and their live shows were absolute riots. George is a completely different beast, though. I wouldn't oversimplify him as just "Max Jurcic's commercial project." Sure, George and Picigin might not be "musical geniuses"—if you can even use that word here—but there’s more to the story. George is the architect of this whole scene. Before the Mazgoons had enough material of their own, they’d play George's songs at every gig. His demo tapes have been circulating since '94; you can still find a "Moma, I'm crazy" tape from 1994 sitting in Melina today. Beyond that, George is the textbook definition of a frontman. He doesn't have the voice, and his songwriting isn't groundbreaking, but as a frontman? He's perfect. He can fire up a crowd with just three sentences. At an album launch at Aquarius, he had the entire place—waiters included—dropping to their knees during a song. He even looked at a security guard and went, "Hey buddy, you standing over there, get down on your knees," 😁 and the guy actually did it. 🤣
Writing it out like that makes it sound ridiculous, and maybe it is, but you can count on one hand the number of people who can command an audience like that from a stage in a split second. His charisma is insane; in certain parts of California, he’s got the legendary status of a Stulic. I’ve never even put a Gegin CD in my player, but with him, the music is secondary to the presence.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Kopito, but you can't just trivialize everything and claim they're better than George or what John is doing these days.

For me, Stillness is the absolute best,

8a is top tier—who needs anything else?

Robin Rodriguez5 said:Don't get me wrong—I've got nothing against Kopito—but you can't just brush it off and claim they're better than George or what John is doing these days.

I didn't say they were better—I said they're better for me. There's a subtle distinction there, if you catch my drift.

George and Picigin are the kind of bands I'll always show up for—grab some wine, hang out, and just have a blast because the vibe is high-energy and fun. On the flip side? You put that other stuff in a CD player and think, "My God, this is just ridiculous."

And let's be real—George has been playing since 1990, but 98% of his fans wouldn't even know he existed if Picigin, led by Max, hadn't come along and pushed George into the spotlight back in 2004.

With her whole heart, she genuinely loves Metallica. I’m absolutely certain about that. 🙂

Look, you don't need to be some high-brow intellectual to create the best music in the world—I don't know what you guys are even talking about. You just have to be smart. The problem starts when someone thinks they're smarter than the guy picking up bottles in my neighborhood just because they finished college and read War and Peace, or can chime in on Gauss's theorem. Well, guess what? You aren't.

I don't know, I just listen to what moves me. I've never listened to anything ironically in my entire life. I might listen to a parody version of 'In the Ghetto' because it's funny, but I don't consider that "ironic listening." And honestly? I like certain things, I like others, and I like fertilizer too. I'm not out here defending anyone's right to love Kopito, but to me, that stuff is garbage.

I don't really see why someone needs to be a genius to make good music—or why music should sound particularly smart in the first place. I mean, if you're into fertilizer, you probably know how that works. 🙂

Jerry Patel6 said:If you compare them to Mozart, they’re absolute garbage, but if you measure them against Matthew Bulic, then they’re basically gods.

🙂

topic pop culture > John Lennon

gentlepuma20 said:I don't see why someone needs to be a genius to make good music. Or why music should sound "smart." If you like garbage, that's on you. 🙂

Look, you need to realize intelligence isn't the same thing as being clever. 🙂 I'm not saying music has to sound intellectual. I just misused the word intelligence—what I actually meant was talent. It's having a brain wired so you can hear a melody in thin air and know exactly how to play it. 🙂

All jokes aside, I’d love to ship all those cocky little garage bands off to Alcatraz just so they could go act tough in a cell 🙂 :udba:

Well, in my humble opinion, what we actually gravitate toward in music might not even be a matter of raw talent so much as it is a question of style—much like how we judge people in real life.
The only thing is, our friend Cyanide doesn't care one bit about style; he’ll always prioritize technical quality above everything else 🙂. That isn't necessarily a bad way to be, though it does lead us into that weird paradox where you can't truly discuss quality without first understanding style.

If there were a saint among us, they'd give every artist an equal shot, if it weren't for the fact that talent means absolutely nothing to God. At the end of the day, loving a certain style feels more "true" than just chasing quality, because style is essentially the soul of the music, haha 😕

Sending a kiss to everyone reading this: 😕

hollowseal33 said:you should know that intelligence isn't the same thing as being smart🙂 i don't think music needs to sound "smart." Okay, maybe I used the word intelligence wrong; what I really meant was talent... having those mental gears aligned so you can see a melody in nothing and actually express it🙂

So, does that mean the benchmark for good music is just the talent behind it?😕

Expressing a melody isn't about talent—it's about style. At least when we're talking about pop music. And to have style, you need awareness. In my eyes, the most talented musician in mainstream genres is someone like Mr. Huljić. But he has zero style... no awareness... he’s just a hack. Sure, you can respect the money he's made (if money is what impresses you)

I hate bringing this up because I don't want to be that guy, but... there's a clear generational gap here. It comes down to how "serious" versus how "fun" you take music. My perspective isn't better or "smarter," it's just fundamentally different from yours. It's that postmodernist mindset that (in my opinion) erodes everything today... the idea that "it's all good because... I don't know... it makes people happy." Basically, don't dig deep and don't overthink it. Honestly, that attitude is healthier and closer to human nature, but it has one fatal flaw: you can't build anything from it. You can't create. You undermine every criterion except "it feels good to me." You aren't disciplined. Plus, that mindset leaves you wide open to pure consumerism.
I don't want to kill the vibe here with my overly intense views, but seriously, can you imagine a time when people would actually fight over music? Yeah, it sounds idiotic now... but they cared more somehow.

Alex Scott22 said:I hate having to bring this up—it’s the last thing I want to do—but there’s a clear generational divide at play here. It comes down to how "serious" versus how "fun" you think music should be. My perspective isn't necessarily better or "smarter," it’s just fundamentally different from yours. It’s that postmodernist mindset that seems to be eroding everything lately... the idea that "it’s all good because... I don't know, it makes you feel happy." Basically: don't dig deep, don't overthink it. In its own way, that attitude is actually healthier and closer to basic human nature, but it carries one fatal flaw: you can't build anything lasting from that stance. You undermine any standard other than "I like it." There's no self-discipline. And besides... that mindset just leaves you wide open to mindless consumerism.

There's some truth to this

Alex Scott22 said:I don't want to kill the vibe here with my overly serious (maybe even extremist) takes, but honestly... can you imagine people from previous generations actually getting into fistfights over music? Yeah, it was idiotic... but they cared more somehow.

There is no 😉

There is zero chance you'll convince me that you or that clown ever cared about Clash or Dead Kennedys as much as I did with my punk crew back in Philly... so don't try. It’s simply not true. 🙂

The reason I end up accepting music that I intuitively find less valuable is mostly because I failed at trying to logically justify my disdain to myself... or more simply, once I realized I couldn't find a single coherent argument to prove someone like Johnny Moped is a greater artist than Taylor Swift, I just gave up.

Anyway, why don't you try your hand at writing some poetry since you seem to have such a keen sense of style? 🙂 😈

While I’m really not feeling particularly motivated to dive into this topic at all—honestly, it's a bit of a stretch—I would argue that Huljić isn't actually talented, nor is he "stylistically aware" or any of those other lofty descriptions... he is simply a shrewd businessman. Nothing more, nothing less. 👋

Huljić is nothing more than a compiler, a collage artist, someone just piecing together puzzles. There isn't any actual talent there...

Kevin Chavez3 said:screw art, let’s just dance 🙂 and being young isn't an excuse for having no self-awareness 😘

Spot on... honestly, if you feel like you need to figure out whether a band is being ironic before you can even justify listening to them, you're being a total snob 😉 (that’s just a general observation—I know zLi isn't a snob)

But don't you basically have this habit of hating on ironic bands before you even hear them? 😉

ha 🙂 precisely because it drives me crazy when musicians act all "oh-so-woke," just like you... 😉

And then you’ve got the socially conscious types—kind of like the kid reciting this track...
bpps - McDonald's Blues
"What's the deal with McDonald's? They pour a massive fortune into advertising, all in a desperate attempt to polish their image as some kind of caring, eco-friendly corporation..."
😵

Totally owned.

Kevin Chavez3 said:Huljic is just a compiler, a collage artist, a puzzle assembler. There’s no real talent there.

I disagree. He plays 'for Eliza' whenever he feels like it.