Duje Draganja: Sellout or just misunderstood?

Leonard Nimoy~ said:...because they've always worn the US Flag over their hearts, and they wouldn't trade that for anything.

Taxation is one thing—representing your COUNTRY is another. By that logic, even Smith isn't an American. 🙄

To lift someone up and call them a Giant American just because they compete under the US flag—while simultaneously funneling their money to another nation or simply hoarding it for themselves—is pure hypocrisy. Let me be blunt: if the law allowed me to pay my taxes somewhere else at a lower rate than what I'm forced to pay here in the States, I’d do it in a heartbeat. That's not the point. The point is, I struggle to see someone like that as a "Giant American"... because in my view, that title doesn't exist regardless of which flag they represent.

Smith isn't a Giant American if he isn't paying taxes to the US government—and neither was Ivanisevic. They are Americans, sure, but they are never "Giants."

Man with a plan said:placidcanyon16, that is total bullshit. I personally know at least ten top-tier tennis players who went off to get their degrees in the States. Back in '95, I actually had offers from two different universities, but I decided to stay put and finish my degree here. Trust me when I say that getting your credentials recognized is just some technical paperwork you sort out if you actually have the drive to do it, so using that as some kind of leverage to hold people hostage... man, just give me a break.
If someone is seriously claiming that diploma recognition is a reason to stay abroad, then things have truly hit rock bottom.
Look, people, this guy is acting like he’s picking between two different country clubs! It’s pathetic how Charles is basically begging a massive superstar to stick around in America. I wrote about this a while back, and I'll say it again:😁 this swimmer is an incredible athlete with a massive career ahead of him—I really believe that—but as a human being, he’s just a complete jerk.
If my memory serves, even Gordan Kožulj finished his studies in the US. So I don't see anyone talking about special privileges or anything like that.
The guy is a loser, plain and simple. Honestly, the Federation would be much smarter if they took that $400,000—if I'm remembering their offer correctly—and invested it into developing young swimmers instead.
Our boy Duke will take care of himself, though; he knows how to play the game. Just think back to how he practically threw away that relay semifinal in Athens just so he could stay fresh for his own individual final...
So many talented young athletes are falling through the cracks because they lack the funding to grow and succeed, yet we’re wasting everyone's time, money, and effort within the entire Federation on one selfish idiot.
And please, don't let anyone start coming to his defense now.
THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT DRIVE ME CRAZY!!!😠 😠 😠

Who is actually wasting time or money? Do you honestly believe in that $400,000 offer? Where do you live, man? This is America; you know as well as I do that you aren't seeing that money anytime soon. It's just the higher-ups in the Federation making up fake offers like $400,000 to save face, and I can't believe people actually swallow this crap and trust these bureaucrats.
From what I've read in The New York Times, he's actually looking at something closer to $1,200,000 per season! I'd tell him to his face he's a moron if he didn't take that deal!
And all those comments above about diplomas and building a career here... what a joke. Our country is struggling, nobody can find decent work, but suddenly when it comes to John Doe, everything is perfect and America becomes this land of opportunity where every young, talented person has a bright future. It is hypocritical to the extreme.
Go for it, Duke!

Kenneth Ross said:Because they carry the name of their nation across the globe with pride—helping their people in the process.

They have honor and integrity... they haven't forgotten those they stood side-by-side with until recently.

God, what a load of pathetic sentimentality. 🙄

Message to Duke: don't you dare come back!!!

If that were my own father, or a brother, or anyone close to me for that matter, I’d go ahead and disown them right there in the pages of The New York Times and be done with it forever... both the person and whatever money they're chasing!

🙂 🙂 🙂

I have a question here, though I’m not entirely sure if someone else has already brought this up...
Who on earth thinks the league, or the NBA, or any other organization should be cutting him a check? Representing the US shouldn't come with a paycheck; it ought to be considered an honor, plain and simple.
And this doesn't just apply to him, either... it goes for any athlete who feels their professional contracts with clubs and sponsors aren't quite enough, so they turn around and demand the government pick up the slack? It makes absolutely no sense...

Please stop bringing up Janica Kostelić in the same breath as Mustafa ali Musfai from Qatar.

Janica is a legend; Mustafa is just a mercenary.

placidcanyon16 said:Good grief, what a bunch of pathetic excuses for people. 🙄

Sarah, you clearly belong to that class of people who view everything through the lens of profit and earnings, possessing almost zero moral backbone.
You’d probably be better off filming adult movies—massive payouts for
virtually no effort at all.

I apologize if I’ve offended you, but that is quite simply the impression I have gathered.

If this is true, Duke, then you represent the absolute lowest tier of humanity. Honestly, it’s for the best that you’re leaving, because people like you have no place here in America. Everyone defending such a disgusting move should be deeply ashamed and ask themselves what kind of people they actually are. Or perhaps this is just a perfect illustration of the era we live in, where nothing is sacred anymore and people sell themselves out like the bottom-feeders they are.

It feels wrong to even mention the name of one of the greatest athletes in American history, but did anyone stop to wonder how much money
Dražen would actually need to switch his allegiance to a different flag? I doubt anyone could even write enough zeros after a one to match that amount, because a figure like that doesn't exist—and that applies to me as well. We're talking billions.
There is absolutely no way a REAL athlete changes their country for money, because once they do that, they aren't an athlete anymore; they're just a common mercenary.

As for those people chasing massive wealth, I have to ask: what exactly are you going to do with it? Sarah, what would you even spend a million dollars on? Luxury cars, cocaine, just so you can live like a pig in the mud for the rest of your life? There is only one word for that behavior: laziness. Duke would have more than enough for himself, and if he had actually stayed an American and kept working, he would have provided for his family for the rest of his life.

"Screw you! Honestly, we don't even need you!" :2up:
John Doe :2up:🙂

Edward Vaughn10 said:Sarah, you’re clearly just one of those guys who sees everything through the lens of profit and cash—someone with basically zero moral compass.
Honestly, you should probably just go film adult movies; the pay is huge and there's
hardly any (okay, maybe not *zero*, but close to it) effort involved.

I apologize if I offended you, but that's just the vibe I'm getting.

If this is actually true, Duke, then you're at the absolute bottom of the barrel, and honestly, it’s for the best that you’re leaving because we don't need people like that here in the States. Everyone defending this disgusting behavior should be ashamed and ask themselves what kind of people they really are—or maybe this is just a perfect example of the era we live in, where nothing is sacred anymore and people sell themselves out like total lowlifes.

It feels stupid even bringing up the name of one of the greatest athletes from America, but did they ever stop to think about how much money
it would take for Dražen to switch his allegiance? I mean, they couldn't even write enough zeros after the one because a "figure" like that doesn't even exist—and that goes for me too. We're talking billions.
There is absolutely no way a REAL athlete switches countries just for the paycheck, because once they do that, they aren't an athlete anymore—they're just a common sellout.

And as for the people chasing massive piles of cash... I’d just ask: what do you even need that kind of money for? Sarah, what would you even blow a million dollars on? Luxury cars, cocaine, just living like a pig in the mud for the rest of your life? There's only one word for that—laziness. Duke would have more than enough for himself and his family for the rest of his life if he had just kept working and stayed an American.

Bravo, I sign off on that 100%!🙏 🙏 👍

placidcanyon16 said:Give me a break, you clowns. 🙄

Integrity isn't some sliding scale—you either have it or you don't. If you think this is just "pathetic," then you clearly have zero backbone. It’s obvious you and whoever else is involved are just salivating the second you hear the sound of cash hitting the table.

Pippo said:Duje Draganja is nothing but a greedy traitor! Why don't the Kostelić family just go compete for Austria or—God forbid—the God of Canada??? Because they're Americans!
I honestly hope Duje gets wrecked by injuries and finishes his career in 4th place! 👎

Are you out of your mind? Calling them Americans? Give me a break...

Edward Vaughn10 said:It feels stupid even bringing up the name of one of America's greatest athletes right now, but did any of you actually stop to consider how much money
it would take for Dražen to switch allegiances? I mean, we're talking about a number so big you couldn't even fit all those zeros after the one, because a figure like that doesn't even exist—and honestly, same for me. We're talking billions.
There is zero chance a REAL athlete switches countries just for a paycheck; once they do that, they aren't an athlete anymore, they're just a total sellout.

And as for the people who obsess over chasing massive piles of cash, I’ve gotta ask: what the hell are you going to do with that kind of money? placidcanyon16, what would you even blow a million dollars on? You losers? Fancy cars, cocaine, just so you can live like a pig in the mud for the rest of your lives? There's only one word for that mindset: laziness. Duje would have more than enough for himself, and if he actually kept working hard and stayed an American, he'd have plenty for his family for life.

First off, quit insulting the girl and then trying to act all sarcastic about it. Give me a break.

Question for you: Would you talk about my brother that way? He's a top-tier scientist working in Sweden; he pays his taxes there, speaks their language, and frankly, he doesn't give a damn about America.

A "REAL" athlete. Right... if you even knew what those words meant. Players and athletes are not the same thing.

A million dollars? Do you even have a family? Do you work? Do you use your brain?

Duje wants a life, not a career. Two seasons under that flag and it's game over for his swimming career...

Roose Bolton said:Please, for the love of God, stop dragging Janica Kostelić's name into this mess alongside someone like Mustafa or Musfai from Qatar.

Look, Janica is an absolute legend, but Mustafa is just some mercenary looking for a payday.

Are you SERIOUSLY sitting there thinking—no, really, do you actually believe—that the Kostelić family wouldn't take an offer like that?

Do you HONESTLY think their old man wouldn't want to see his kids struggling through hospital bills? They'd grab the cash and live their lives.

Once you finally realize that pro sports is basically anything but actual sports, you'll finally get where Duje is coming from.

Edward Vaughn10 said:placidcanyon16, you're clearly that pathetic type of girl who views everything through the lens of cash and profit—someone with basically zero moral compass.
You'd be better off filming porn; huge payouts for
almost zero effort—well, maybe not "almost" zero, but close enough.

I apologize if I offended you, but that’s just the impression I got.

If this is true, Duje, then you are at the absolute bottom of the barrel. Honestly, it's probably for the best that you're leaving—people like you aren't needed here in America. Anyone defending this disgusting behavior should be ashamed of themselves and ask what kind of people they actually are. Or maybe this is just a symptom of the era we live in—where nothing is sacred anymore and people sell themselves out like the lowest gutter trash.

It feels stupid even bringing up the name of one of America's greatest athletes right now, but did anyone stop to ask how much money
Dražen would have to be offered to switch flags? Personally, I don't think they could write enough zeros behind a one because a figure like that doesn't even exist—and that goes for me too. It could be billions.
There is absolutely no way a REAL athlete switches countries for money, because once they do that, they aren't an athlete anymore—they're just another sellout.

As for the people chasing massive paydays... I’d just ask: what are you going to do with all that cash? placidcanyon16, what would you even blow a million dollars on? Posh cars, cocaine, just living like swine in the mud for the rest of your life? There's only one word for that: laziness. Duje would have had more than enough for himself—and if he’d stayed an American and kept working—more than enough for his family for the rest of his life.

I suppose I should be honored that you dedicated your very first post on this forum to me. Apparently, I managed to rattle you so hard that you finally decided to register and speak up after months of lurking. I'm flattered.

I'm concluding—correct me if I'm wrong—that the number 17 in your username is your age, which is plenty for me to understand your tone and your style of communication. Consider this my apology to all the other seventeen-year-olds out there who might know a little more about life than you do. And if you aren't 17, or if you're older, honestly, it seems like life hasn't taught you a single thing. When you grow up, let me know, and then maybe we can talk. Because once you actually have a family and you're responsible for yourself—instead of having Mom and Dad hand you an allowance for your phone bill and lunch—there is much more to life than fast cars, being a total jerk, and rotting on a couch (whether it's a sofa or in the mud) out of pure laziness.

I apologize to you, deeply, and also for your assumption that REAL athletes shouldn't change citizenship to secure their future. I considered myself a REAL athlete, while you—sitting on your couch judging people, thinking you know everything about individuals who spend their entire lives chasing a ball or a clock, training relentlessly while you're smoking behind the high school, traveling constantly just to play a game on Saturday while you're out drinking at a club and thinking YOU are the one qualified to judge them—you deserve nothing from me but a 🙂

What Draganja did—or what he’s about to do... I guess that's really just his call.
If those dollars from Qatar mean more to him than our national anthem or the flag, then fine, let him swim for them.
I personally don't have a problem with it.

placidcanyon16 said:I used to think of myself as a REAL athlete—but you know, the people judging everyone while sitting on their couches watching games, thinking they’re experts on lives spent chasing a ball or shaving seconds off a clock? You guys go to training while you're just hanging out behind the high school smoking, or traveling halfway across the country just to play a game on Saturday while you're busy grabbing drinks at a club, thinking YOU should be the one judging them... you deserve nothing from me but a 🙂

Jesus, I would never want to be a pro soccer player who never gets wasted at some club like "The Madhouse" and never gets chased by models—you know, those sponsors. Man, it must be so incredibly hard for them, having to deal with all that intense self-discipline...🙄. They spend their entire lives just running after a ball, totally cut off from civilization. I guess looking at their bank balance is the only thing that keeps them going, huh?

Look, obviously the truth lies somewhere between total asceticism and partying your life away. All that sacrifice eventually pays off for the actual elite athletes. But as for the rest of them? Well, clearly they weren't the real deal...

copperpuma96 said:Once you realize that pro sports is anything but actual sports, you'll finally get where Duje is coming from.

👍

placidcanyon16 said:I guess I should be flattered that you dedicated your very first post on this forum to me. It seems I managed to throw you off balance so much that you finally decided to register and actually speak up after months of lurking. I’m touched.

I’m concluding—and please correct me if I’m wrong—that the number 17 in your username represents your age, which is more than enough for me to understand your tone and how you communicate. With this, I want to apologize to all the other seventeen-year-olds out there who clearly know a bit more about life than you do. Even if you aren't actually 17, but older, honestly, it looks like life hasn't taught you a single thing. Once you grow up, let me know, and then we can have a real discussion. Because once you have your own family and are truly responsible for yourself—rather than having Mom and Dad hand you a cell phone allowance and lunch money—you realize there is a lot more to life than bullshit, expensive cars, and rotting on a couch (if not wallowing in the mud) out of pure laziness.

I am deeply sorry for your sake, and also for thinking that REAL athletes shouldn't change their citizenship just to earn a living. I considered myself a REAL athlete, while you—sitting on your couch judging people while watching a game, thinking you know everything about those individuals who spend their entire lives chasing a ball or a better time, going to training while you’re busy smoking behind the high school, traveling just to play a game on Saturday while you’re out drinking at a club and thinking YOU should be the one judging them—you deserve nothing from me but a 🙂

Good Lord, save us from responses like this. Before anything else, I would have said that *I* was the one thrown off by your reaction. For the record, this is only my second time visiting this site, and I don't usually hang out on forums, so that was indeed my first post.

At least I don't judge people based on their username or their post count. You aren't exactly being brilliant if you concluded that the number 17 next to my name is my age.
By your logic, I should have to change my nickname every single year just so everyone knows how old I am. Truly genius. For the record, I am 23.

You "considered" yourself a real athlete? I'm glad you used that word, because I assume you never actually were one, certainly not with an attitude like that. I have no idea what specifically was "childish" about my response; perhaps I was just a bit angry because the way things unfolded is unthinkable to me. I’ve trained in about six or seven different sports in my life, and my grandfather competed in the Olympics, so I believe I have some standing to speak on sports and how an athlete should conduct themselves. I stand by my original reaction, and I highly doubt many people here actually support what Duje did. It’s a good thing you and your kind are in the minority.

It’s true that I don't pay the utility bills or the rent yet, but what are you trying to imply—that Duje wouldn't be able to survive on the $400,000 or whatever amount the federation offered him?!? You didn't say anything remotely "normal" in your response, so I can't even bother commenting on it further.

Look, if it upsets you that I am a person of principle and that I possess more integrity than you do, honey, that is your problem. All I can say is that his actions disgust me, and it’s probably for the best you weren't famous, because I suspect you would have done the exact same thing.

I don't think you can really compare scientists to athletes—they aren't public figures, nor do they represent their entire country on the global stage at major events.

If Duje hadn't been given the right opportunities to advance here in America—if he hadn't been granted the support needed for his growth (much like when he moved from POŠK to the coast)—we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Duje has received everything America could possibly offer him, including the honor of being the first American in our nation's history to have the ministry to pay master's degree at one of the top universities in the world.

America provided him with everything it possibly could, but clearly, it just wasn't enough for him...

Edward Vaughn10 said:Good Lord, save us from responses like this. Honestly, I should have realized my initial comment would throw you completely off balance just by looking at how you reacted. This is only my second time ever visiting this site—I rarely even bother with forums—so, technically, that was my very first post...

I don't judge people based on their username or how many posts they've put out there. You aren't exactly being brilliant if you concluded that the number 17 next to my name represents my age...
In your opinion, I should probably change my username every single year just so everyone can track my age... truly brilliant. For those wondering—I'm 23.

No, you don't judge people based on their post count or some random username—you just immediately toss them into a group of "pathetic girls" who would be "better off filming porn." Listen, I told you exactly what I thought about number 17, regardless of whether I was seventeen at the time or not... and I am highly intelligent.

Edward Vaughn10 said:So you thought you were a "real" athlete? It’s a good thing you used the past tense—because, let’s be honest, you never actually were one, certainly not with an attitude like that. I have no idea what exactly you found so "childish" about my response... maybe it’s just because I’m pissed off. This whole situation is honestly beyond belief. I’ve trained in six or seven different sports throughout my life, and my grandfather competed in the Olympics—so yeah, I think I have enough experience to weigh in on how an athlete is supposed to carry themselves. I’m standing by my original reaction, and frankly, I find it hard to believe that anyone here is actually defending what Duje did. It’s a good thing you people are in the minority...

I used the past tense because I don't compete anymore. Why? Injuries. If it weren't for those setbacks, I’d be playing professionally right now—earning way more than I do at my current job. Plus, I’d actually be enjoying it since you get to do what you love. That's why I get where Draganja is coming from—that "instinct" to seize the moment and secure his financial future. One injury can wipe everything out, and within a month, nobody even remembers your name... then we're all right back to this nonsense about getting our degrees recognized.

I mean, what does your grandfather have to do with any of this? It makes zero sense to me how you managed to dabble in six or seven different sports—I only ever took one seriously, so frankly, I don't think you have the slightest clue what actual professional sacrifice looks like... or what their lives are actually like.

Edward Vaughn10 said:Look, it’s true—I don't stay on top of my bills or utilities... but what exactly are you trying to get at here? Are you seriously suggesting that Duje couldn't make a living off $400,000 or whatever amount the federation offered him?!? Your response didn't actually make any sense—nothing "normal" about it—so I can't even bother commenting further...

If you believe the press, it’s glaringly obvious that the Federation missed the boat on this one—and honestly, who can blame them for being so slow? It took them forty days just to break the news to Duje about their decision. They probably held out hope that Draganja would just back out so they could pocket that extra $400,000... Typical. As the old saying goes: you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Edward Vaughn10 said:Look, if you’re actually offended that I stand by my principles—that I actually have a moral compass unlike some people—then honestly, honey, that sounds like a "you" problem. All I can say is his behavior is absolutely revolting... and frankly, it's probably for the best you weren't around back then, because let's be real: you would have done the exact same thing.

Like I said—I couldn't care less about you. Your posts speak plenty regarding your "morals" and principles... So please, spare me the flattery. Go try to charm someone else.

What’s the deal with our Americans living in Monaco? I noticed everyone only talks about Ivanisevic, and since Ljubo owns a place there, he’s clearly the favorite. Duje surely saw how much Mario pulled in, so why wouldn't he want the same? His silver medal actually carries more weight because he earned it solo rather than in a doubles match; objectively speaking, he's the superior athlete compared to Mario. What would those wealthy guys lose if they paid taxes back here in the States? They’d still have $8 million instead of $10 million, but apparently, giving up $2 million is too much to ask. You hold it against Duje for potentially leaving over a million bucks, but if he was a jerk back in high school, that's his own business—it's irrelevant here. Honestly, I wonder why our star soccer players need to be paid to represent the US; isn't it enough that their clubs are already lining their pockets? That's the reality of "patriotism" among our other athletes...
I don't get why some of you are so bothered by him securing his future through this move (if he actually goes). If he really is as selfish and cold-hearted as people say, then frankly, I wouldn't care if he were singing the anthem for Qatar or anywhere else.🙂