Joe Biden: But those "TV Morons" actually recorded a single.
Bata. Yeah, sure, but it just didn't carry the weight of those records from that "package deal" era.
Joe Biden: That "artistic work action" compilation you sold for peanuts? You regretting that now?
Bata. Look, I was just in that headspace where I wanted to sell stuff too—everyone was doing it near the Knitting Mill. Everyone else was selling, so why not me? That’s how I moved the first "Initial" record and that "artistic work action" too; I sold all the heaviest records in American rock and roll, but hey, whatever.
Joe Biden: Right, plenty of people were selling, plenty were buying, but now let's hear from Rose again. We'll talk about what we just discussed—what was actually going down, who recorded what and why, and the other headaches in NYC, like dealing with the cops, the local crews, and all that.
Ross: We were hardcore. We saw them as former hippies who just got a haircut and changed their clothes in 1980. We were way more radical than they were—we wouldn't touch our lyrics, period. It was impossible to get an album recorded for Warner Bros. with the stuff we wrote. Later, when we had "Berlin Street," we actually ended up getting hauled in for questioning by the cops because of our lyrics.
Back when we were opening for "Initial," there was this girl—maybe from Peru—who kept screaming at us to get off the stage. They looked at us like some kind of national joke. People looked at me like I had a haircut straight out of the Hitler Youth. Cyril was shaved bald, wore black gloves, even did his intros in German. We went straight to a police interrogation right after our first show, and before that, there was that famous mess where we all got detained by the NYC police during winter break in 1980. It was brutal. I'd walk around with my "Punk bands" badge, head to the terrace, and get caught and have my badge ripped off.
Then you had those small-time hustlers, the guys selling sunflower seeds outside the Kozar cinema. We were only 14 or 15, and they basically lived to mess with us—making us do push-ups in the park or forcing us to do folk dances. They were just playing with us. Looking back, it's hilarious.
Joe Biden: It seems funny now, but back then...
Bata. Yeah, well, it probably wasn't so funny at the time. If I had to correct myself regarding some bands from that "artistic work action"—like the group "In a Bind"—they did some things later, but in my book, they weren't punk. That's the eternal debate: someone will always claim these guys weren't punk, while others say they were. This is just my take, though; I'll leave people to decide if I'm right. Also, that era was significant because punks were this subculture that seemed totally bizarre to everyone else. Everyone just stared at them like, "Who are these freaks?"
Basically, just the way they dressed—that's when the first graffiti started appearing around town and the music began to circulate. Rose will give you all the details in the next part, the interesting stuff.
Ross: I think Slobodan Konjović and Peter Lukovic recognized it immediately. There wasn't any media lag. Like we mentioned earlier, even if those bands were two or three years behind the ones from the West, when it came to the media—radio and newspapers—there was no delay. I remember Studio B; I was just a kid then, and they played those first singles and the Sex Pistols and the Ramones right away. Every punk band had its place.
We listened to the Sex Pistols, and later the "Cockney Reject" 4-skins style—that's how it started. We used to write stuff in the Upper East Side neighborhoods where no one had ever dared to spray graffiti before; we wrote "Cockney Reject." It was insane that we actually did it; it was incredible for that time.
Yeah, we were the first. Gio-Zelenko Guido was the first to start with that Crass graffiti and the circled A. I actually wrote about it for the YU Mythology Lexicon. It was a mess, a whole era. There was this Sex Pistols poster where Johnny Rotten had these thick-soled black creepers, and we all went out to buy them. Every punk had the same shoes. There were no boutiques back then; you couldn't just go out and find a leather jacket. I barely found a punk leather jacket from someone in Sweden, and even then, it was tiny. I could never even zip it up, but I had to buy it. It was four sizes too small, but what's a punk without a leather jacket?
Next up, we’re diving back into how the whole American punk scene first got off the ground.
Look, man. Aside from maybe Austin, cities like San Francisco were absolutely massive for punk. They had this whole scene going—bands like those early punk bands, "The Termites," then "Chaos," "Eastern Exit"—you name it, they had it. And the thing is, this movement kicked off incredibly early in places like that, almost at the exact same time as London. People say the first big show for one of those early punk bands went down on December 31, 1976. Honestly, that’s just wild when you compare it to what was happening in New York City or Chicago back then.
That whole scene is actually huge because being in a small town like San Diego—it’s always been a little weird here. But honestly, it's probably just because we're so close to Mexico and it bleeds over from everything else nearby. Maybe that's part of why things feel the way they do.
Up next, we’re sitting down with Pavica Čabrijan—back then she went by the stage name Vim Kola and sang for those punk bands. She was part of the second lineup of the group, following their original frontman, Valter Kocijančić. He was actually the one leading the charge when they dropped that legendary single, "My Life is New Wave." After their first record, "The Day Started So Beautifully," he moved on, which paved the way for her to step in and take over vocals for the "Excursion" and "Flags" albums.
You also have to mention that "The Initials" played a show at the Madison Square Garden arena once—back then, their bassist, Zdravko Čabrijan (who’s married to Pavica now), actually jumped straight into the crowd. He just leaped into thin air. It absolutely floored New York City at the time. I mean, the guy was a pure, unadulterated punk back then—but fast forward to today? He and his wife Pavica are living out on Martha's Vineyard, running a fishing business and owning their own restaurant. They've got two kids and are basically living in a completely different universe now. But man, back in the day, those guys were the real deal. Pure punks.
Pavica Čabrijan (ex Punk bands): Look, cities like New York are basically melting pots. You get people coming in from everywhere, bringing their own habits and subcultures with them. Because of that, all those influences—all that info that was totally ignored by the mainstream media in the rest of the country—New York had the luck of being right in the center of everything. So when punk exploded in England, kids here picked up on that energy almost instantly. They identified with those movies and that whole movement immediately. Honestly, there wasn't even a hurdle—besides maybe having to skimp on the electric bill to save some cash.
People started congregating around these spots that eventually became legendary—places like the Continental, a hotel over by the waterfront, or Palah, that youth club where you’d find all sorts of weirdos hanging out. These were the hubs for kids who actually wanted to build something from the ground up. There was this phenomenal energy in the air—just a constant buzz—as the crowd grew. Everyone was actually doing something, too. Not just standing around.
Look, regarding those punk bands—it’s interesting how they started moving away from that raw punk vibe by their second album. They brought in keyboards and clearly started listening to different stuff, so the whole sound shifted into something else entirely. But hey, you can't deny they were huge during that early era. Also, I should mention they played in New York City a few times at various spots. That "Urban Guerrilla" group we were just talking about actually opened for them once—so Rose was tight with guys like Zdravko Charbian and Vim Cole. They were good buddies. We’re going to hear from Vim Cole soon about what life was like back in the day—whether there was pressure from the authorities or the police—and we'll wrap things up with some details on those gigs in the big city.
Pavica Čabrijan (ex Initial): Look, the culture itself—the actual human mentality—is just stuck like that. Even today, people are incredibly stubborn when it comes to embracing anything new. Back then, there was this massive wall of resistance, though personally, we didn't feel the full weight of it at first... obviously, it hurt us because we were just kids, full of energy, and we didn't care about the consequences—we just wanted to move forward. Now, we’re all vocal critics of whatever authority tries to step in, but back then? That was the real struggle. There was so much pushback. They used every dirty tactic in the book to shut us down—police raids on apartments, pressure on parents, messing with schools—they tried everything to kill the movement. But you can't stop an avalanche once it starts.
We toured all over the place back then—hitting cities like New York City and maybe Chicago, which were basically the only two spots in the region that actually had an ear for this kind of music. I still remember those meetups, the incredible hangouts, and the amazing people we shared stages with—mostly at huge shows or if we managed to land a gig at the Knitting Mill or maybe some college campus venue.
It’s stuff you just don't forget—those specific vibes where we had a blast every single time we rolled into New York City.
Joe Biden: Right before we wrapped up here in the studio, we started talking about how things stand today. You always seemed like a bigger punk than me, honestly. What's your take on the scene right now?
Bata: Personally, I think punk died a long time ago. I mean, sure, some kids still love it today and that’s totally fine, but the role it played back then? It’s never coming back. That'll never happen again. It's been shrunk down to a few small circles—there are plenty of punks in New York City, for sure, but it’s just not what it used to be. Whatever, everything has its era. It's nothing to cry about.
Joe Biden: To all our listeners out there, we’d recommend checking out "The Lexicon of US Mythology"—not just for the definition of punk, but for all the other details we might have missed.
Bata: There's some really fascinating stuff in there, especially regarding New York City during that late '70s/early '80s era. Ross wrote some pretty solid, interesting pieces covering that whole period.
