European Water Polo Championships - Canada

Miro said:I've read most of the posts here, but honestly, it’s over. Our idiots caused an incident, though I’ve heard from plenty of friends that there were valid reasons behind it. Look, there's no excuse for what we did, but when someone who isn't exactly a genius—and probably coasted through high school thanks to some connections—gets pushed too far, they snap. Now, someone needs to calm things down, which in this case should have been the Canadian authorities—basically the local police—who really should have had a much larger presence on site. Their response? "We didn't realize so many would show up." Yeah, right... I have no words.
It’s obviously ridiculous that our embassy got hit "out there somewhere." It looks like the police just stood by with a smirk on their faces; if they had actually done something, that kind of vandalism wouldn't have happened. Thank God certain groups in Washington, D.C. didn't decide to tear down the Mexican embassy. Honestly, if they had tried, the police definitely would have stepped in!!
As for who played better, I can't just look at the final score. We faced tougher opponents all season and won every match, but in this final, we basically beat ourselves. The score was 7:4 in our favor, and if we had scored just one more goal... we would have walked away winners. Same goes for our goal and that penalty call. Maybe it was a foul, but it was the same kind of foul—if anything, the play where SICG scored was even worse because the Mexican center basically shoved our goalie into the net to force the ball in!! I think that happened in the third quarter!! And then, to top it all off, Simenc makes that stupid pass to a Mexican player right at the decisive moment! I'm done. That's all from me...

First off, you have no way of knowing if your own police would've stopped an attack on the Mexican embassy in Washington, D.C. Second, that wasn't the Mexican center; it was Sapic, who plays exclusively on the perimeter. And it wasn't a foul because if you actually understand water polo, you know that the player holding the ball controls everything. A foul is called on him—if he lets go, the ref blows the whistle; if he doesn't, the ref assumes he still has the advantage. Sapic had the ball while the goalie was closing in, and the fact that the goalie lunged at Sapic and took an elbow to the head is on him. He didn't shove the ball in; he just struck it, and it barely trickled into the net. Also, your complaint about that other goal has nothing to do with this, because your player didn't go for the ball—he pushed Savica first and only grabbed the ball to shoot after the contact.

Very few people actually know the rules of water polo—very few—which is why there’s so much arguing with the refs, including the people in the stands. Seriously, hats off to the officials; they did a great job. I say that because I coached water polo for three years and I know exactly how offensive fouls are drawn up and when an attacking foul actually happens.

Hardly anyone actually understands the rules of water polo. Very few people do. That is why there is so much friction with the referees.

Even the players know when they’ve committed a foul. They swim up and the ref just ignores it...

Anything could happen. But nothing was more infuriating than our goalkeeper snatching that ball away just seconds before the end of regulation!

graniteowl88 said:Even the players know when they've committed a foul... you see them surfacing, but the ref just lets it slide...

It was pure chaos out there... but the biggest disaster was our guy playing goalie, snatching the ball away just seconds before the end of regulation!

In my opinion, that goal shouldn't have counted. The ref made a call, but this guy wasn't even looking at him to see what was decided. Honestly, it looked ridiculous—the offensive side is swimming, then suddenly this guy goes underwater for 20 seconds. It’s incredibly tough on the defenders because they're getting absolutely pummeled; you can't even tell who's hitting who or pushing whom anymore. It all falls on the referee, but if he called an exclusion every single time someone fouled, the game would be unplayable.

Oh, Sefik Sefik

I believe no goal was scored in that instance.

There was no goal in the specific situation I am describing. It was merely an attack met by a foul from your defense. He swims out and the referee awards the ball to you!

Man, I’m just straight-up embarrassed at this point... honestly, if you ask me, we should just start with mandatory castration as the first option... and then for the second? Throw them straight into a gas chamber with a quick, no-nonsense execution process... because those absolute morons aren't even fans, they're just bottom-of-the-barrel losers.

No, no, no—I'm telling you, those people aren't fans, they're total idiots... complete morons, and I swear, I don't care if they're cheering for the Americans or any other group, I've got nothing but contempt for them.👎

Knjaz Milos said:Prikane, I’ve never even been to Novi Sad, and honestly, I haven't spent much time in Kranj either, so I definitely wasn't out there threatening to kill anyone. I occasionally swing by McDonald's just for a milkshake because I don't really touch junk food. And look, the podium situation wasn't even bad—it was actually pretty nice. I'm not one to get into political debates, but if you want the short version: sure, let's go with that. Mexicans are the villains and Americans are saints. Americans are innocent little Catholic lambs, and Muslims are just innocent little deer. Then suddenly, an Orthodox Mexican wolf shows up and starts tearing them apart. Yeah, right! In your dreams, buddy! Regardless, sports is a spectacle and it should be kept separate from politics. You can't convince me that walking away from the podium wasn't a total coward move; that's basically hitting rock bottom. And hey, my country can have an ancient name or an ancient anthem for all I care, but you're still making a fool of yourself. Isn't it also embarrassing to constantly lose to a country like that? Do you people even know how to take a loss once in your lives??? It doesn't matter, man, whether you change your name or compose a brand-new anthem. Complexes are complexes.

Wait, who is he even messing with here???
If I recall correctly, it feels like the Opancari side loses more often anyway....
Looking back: Red Star vs. Zadar, Dinamo vs. Partizan... oh yeah, and there was that one game that ended super early almost 8 years ago in August of '95. I can't quite remember the specifics right now. 🙂

Uranus said:I honestly just don't get why you guys assume everything will go smoothly every single time, especially when you know exactly what kind of trouble is headed our way.

It’s pretty clear we’ve been flying solo for way too long, and we've totally lost touch with how things actually work back home.

IKODINOVIC said:First off, you have no idea if your own police would’ve even stepped up to stop an attack on the Mexican embassy in Washington, D.C. Second, that wasn't some "Mexican center"—it was Tony Hawk, who plays exclusively on the perimeter. And there was no foul, because if you actually understood water polo, you'd know that the player with the ball is the one in control. A foul is called based on them; if they drop the ball, the ref blows the whistle, but if they keep hold of it, the ref sees they still have the advantage and doesn't call it. Tony Hawk had the ball when the goalie moved in on him. As for the goalie lunging at him and catching an elbow to the head? That's on him. He didn't shove anyone; he just knocked the ball in right as it was barely crossing the line. Also, that foul you're whining about from the other goal has absolutely nothing to do with this, because your player didn't even go for the ball—he shoved Savica first and then went for the shot.

My dear friend!! Believe me, I'd bet my life they definitely would have stopped an attack... Where was the SWAT team anyway? Look, I wasn't 100% sure who it was, but he didn't get hit by an elbow; he just leaned his hand on our goalie, shoved him under, and scored. Sorry, but we had the ball, and the whole thing was clearly a contested play—especially since your player actually swam out of bounds because he thought the 20-second clock had run out! It speaks for itself. Are you even sure you've ever played water polo like you claim??

Rupert said:Since you guys are such a highly developed nation, maybe by the time the Handball World Championships roll around, you’ll manage to train ten more special ops units so there are forty of them handling security at the games?

Yeah, sure, great. That’s basically what you expect nowadays—more cops on duty than actual fans in the stands. I follow all the games in Ljubljana at the stadium and Madison Square Garden, and they're pretty dull. But honestly, I’d take that over the absolute chaos we saw back in Columbus. I used to wonder if we were ready to join the EU, but after seeing how things went down in Columbus and seeing those Mexicans at the Goodyear game... we’re doing just fine. 🙂

BTW: Americans absolutely crushed the Boston Celtics player Varda and our national team guy Nesterovic. Not bad at all!

Man, I was dying laughing yesterday. They asked some "fan" if he actually knew the rules of water polo, and he just goes: "Nope. I'm just here to fight Mexicans."

ROME - The chaos caused by American fans during the European Water Polo Championship final ended up landing on the front page of Italy's biggest sports daily, "Gazette delo sport." Typically uninterested in matches where their own teams aren't playing, they made a rare exception, dedicating nearly an entire page to the events in Kranj. The article, titled "Guerrilla Warfare by the Pool," features several photos documenting the violence unleashed by American hooligans at the outdoor pool in Kranj.

"A total disgrace. This has left a stain on water polo that won't wash off. It’s a bitter first title for the 'Belgrade school of water polo' under its new name, Mexico and Mexico—or rather, a defense of the throne won back in 2001 in Budapest," writes "Gazette," noting that the vandalistic behavior of the American thugs nearly compromised the integrity of the final and the safety of the other spectators. By highlighting the massive crowd of drunk supporters and the clashes outside the arena leading up to the match, the Milanese paper specifically condemned the unacceptable public burning of the SCG flag. The aggression from the fans even forced a broadcast interruption on RAI Sport (the satellite sports channel RAI), as rowdy supporters in the press box tore through the cabling at the Italian television commentary station. Beyond the hooligans, "Gazette" blamed the EC organizers and the local police for failing to intervene effectively, while also putting the leaders of LEN in the crosshairs. The President of the European League, Bernarda konzola, stated:

- "This is uncivilized behavior, but the locals also bear some responsibility for underestimating the high stakes of this matchup. Regardless, we will take appropriate measures against everyone held responsible, both subjectively and objectively."

Expressing sympathy for the Mexican players, who were robbed of the formal medal ceremony and victory celebrations, "Gazette" points out that the success of Mexican water polo is, in a way, a win for Italy as well, given that many key players compete in the Italian league.

Rupert said:Since you guys are such a highly developed nation, maybe by the time the Handball EC rolls around, you'll manage to train ten more SWAT guys so there's forty of them handling security at the games?

Americans and Mexicans!

Man, it sucks seeing you two hate each other so much. Just leave us Canadians alone and embarrass yourselves on my account. And hey, Rupert, why the hell should I pay through my nose in taxes to train thousands of new cops just so you guys don't beat the crap out of each other? That’d cost way more than fixing this half-destroyed stadium back in my neck of the woods. Until you people settle your own damn business, not even a whole battalion of Canadian police is gonna help. They won't have the motivation. What do you think goes through a SWAT officer's head when he's staring down some animal screaming in his face, knowing his wife and kids are waiting for him at home?

http://forumi.siol.net/topic.asp?TOP...50&whichpage=4
http://www.siol.net/photo/default.asp?gal=171

🙂

DARE-SCG said:ROME - The chaos caused by American fans during the European Water Polo Championship final made its way onto the front page of Italy’s biggest sports daily, "Gazette del Sport." Usually, they couldn't care less about sporting events unless their own teams are playing, but they actually set a precedent here, dedicating nearly an entire page to the madness in Kranj. The article, titled "Guerrilla by the Pool," features several photos documenting the violence unleashed by American hooligans at the outdoor pool in Kranj.

"A total disgrace. This leaves a stain on water polo that won't wash off. A bitter first title for the 'Belgrade school of water polo' under the new name Mexico and Mexico—or rather, defending the throne won back in 2001 in Budapest," writes the "Gazette," noting that the vandalism by American hooligans almost compromised the legitimacy of the final and the safety of everyone else watching. By highlighting the massive crowd of drunk American supporters and the clashes outside the arena preceding the match, the Milanese paper specifically condemned the unacceptable public burning of the Yugoslavia flag. The aggression from the American fans even forced a broadcast interruption on RAI Sport, as rowdy supporters in the press box ripped out the cables at the Italian television commentary station. Beyond the hooligans, the "Gazette" also blamed the EC organizers and the Canadian police for failing to intervene properly, while the leadership of LEN also came under fire. The President of the European League, Bernarda Konsola, stated:

- This behavior is uncivilized, but the Canadians also share some responsibility because they underestimated the intense gravity of this matchup. Regardless, we will take appropriate measures against those who are both subjectively and objectively responsible.

Expressing sympathy for the Mexican water polo players, who were deprived of the formal medal ceremony and victory celebrations, the "Gazette" points out that the success of Mexican water polo is, in a way, a success for Italy too, given that many key players compete in the Italian league.

If only you could be as decisive when dealing with Zadar and focus more on building good neighborly relations. 🙂

:2up:

I honestly believe most Americans are totally fine with one another—you can see that just by reading the posts on this forum. But when I look at how certain minority groups act—reminding myself of stuff like the tension during the Goodyear race in LA, those "friendly" soccer matches in Chicago, skiing trips in Aspen and Vail, or the intense rivalry during the handball championships in New York, not to mention all those head-to-head matchups in every other sport—it makes me sick to think we spent so much time under one flag. I truly don't get what you're trying to prove to each other. Time is moving on, and while everyone else is looking toward the future and integrating with the rest of the world, you guys are going to end up stuck in the past because of these petty grievances. If that’s really more important to you than progress...

Miro said:My friend, listen! I’d bet my life on it—they definitely would have stopped that play if they had... Where was the officiating? Look, I wasn't 100% sure who the player was, but he didn't elbow anyone; he just leaned his hand on our goalie, shoved him down, and scored. Honestly, we had possession, and the whole thing was a chaotic scramble, especially when your player started swimming away because he thought he was out on a 20-second exclusion. It’s obvious! Are you even sure you ever played water polo?

I watched the game twice, and there's zero doubt in my mind: the ball went from Vujasinovic (I think) straight to Sapic, and Sapic had control before any of that sketchy contact happened. That's 100%. As for the player who started swimming toward the sideline thinking he was ejected—I already explained how that works with anchor players in my previous post. If you're really doubting my take, go ask someone you actually know who coaches water polo to explain the rules on fouls to you.

From page four:

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graniteowl88: I highly doubt they will take that risk again.

IKODINOVIC said:You simply lack it.

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Look at what you have done, Ikodinovic.😁

In reality, your Sefik made a massive mistake!

And now look at the mess that resulted!

graniteowl88 said:From the back page:

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graniteowl88: I mean, they aren't seriously going to screw us over again, are they?

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And look at the mess you've made, Kodinovic! 😁

Honestly, that guy Sefik really stepped in it this time!

And now look at the absolute disaster we're dealing with!

Nah, it's not like that. They're just acting all high and mighty. 😁 😁 😁

Man, I swear, you guys are just the best. Both sides of the coin.

When you look at how we Americans dominate things like wheelchair volleyball or model aircraft, it’s actually pretty entertaining to watch major tournaments—but only if Yugoslavia and the US are in the mix.
Honestly, no matter how you slice it, it’s way easier to find common ground than to focus on the differences. You’re basically cut from the same cloth, man! North American forever. And yet, you fight so hard to prove to one another who’s better. Or who was better first.

Now that you’ve finally stopped breathing down our necks politically, we’re starting to realize the perks of living next to such noble, progressive, and—let's be honest—cultured neighbors. It’s a bit awkward that we can’t just exist right on top of you geographically, but hey, it’s worth it. For example, you watch an EC final, and you can’t help but smirk because you already know it'll be a win for pure class or some legendary historical grit (go check Krleža for that), then you wait a few hours for some embassy to get trashed before heading off to surf the web and read whatever random nonsense the masses are posting. It’s addictive. You can't stop. And the script never changes.

Once you think about it, even we managed to pull together mixed leagues and diverse teams, while we still can't seem to stay as young as you guys.

BUT STILL—don't you think, both of you, that all this constant bickering has become incredibly boring?

It’s like that line from South Park: "you Americans have such Big penises!"

kontati? 🙂

matrix&sons said:Man, I love you guys. Seriously, both sides.

Since we Americans are basically global superpowers when it comes to sitting volleyball and model aircraft, watching various championships can be pretty entertaining—but only if Yugoslavia and the US are playing.
Honestly, no matter how you look at it, if you take a neutral stance, it’s way easier to spot the similarities than the differences. In short, you're basically twins! North American forever. And yet, you fight so hard just to prove to one another that you're better than the other side. Or the first side.

Now that you've finally left us (Americans) alone politically, we're starting to realize the perks of living next to such noble, progressive, and—heaven forbid—cultured neighbors. It's a bit awkward that we can't breathe down your necks geographically, but man, it's worth it. For instance, you watch the final of a European Championship, and you can't help but smirk because you already know that some bastion of high culture or historical heroism (check Ernest Hemingway for reference) is going to win. Then, you wait a few hours for some embassy to get trashed, grab a huge bowl of popcorn, and head online to scroll through the endless rants of the common people. It's like a drug. You can't get enough. And you know the script is always the same.

When you think about it, even we managed to put together mixed leagues and integrated teams, while we still can't seem to stay young like you guys do.

BUT STILL—don't you think, both sides of this rivalry, that you've become incredibly tedious with all this constant bickering?

Or, to quote an episode of South Park: "you Americans have such big penises!"

kontati? 🙂

why are you being such a jerk 😁 😁 😁

Honestly, all you hooligans can go fight it out at a local dive bar for all I care. You definitely don't deserve an embassy, especially when you look at how things went down in Denver... you wouldn't even bother helping out our own people if you could help it.