Religion & Anti-religion subforum: the same old crowd and Meadow

I’ve started this thread because I need to vent about the Religion subforum.
There are several fundamental issues with the Religion section right now.

First off, the subforum itself doesn't actually function as a space for religious discussion at all. Second, there is a specific group of users who constantly poison and troll every single thread that gets opened, regardless of whether they actually know anything about the subject matter; they just fabricate nonsense, and when serious users try to refute their lies with actual evidence, they simply ignore them by doubling down on more falsehoods and repetitive mantras until the more thoughtful contributors are completely exhausted. Lately, the Religion subforum has spiraled out of control, turning into nothing more than a breeding ground for insults and endless bickering.

The third issue involves the moderator, Meadow, who openly sides with the exact group I just described while simultaneously demonstrating an undeniable intolerance toward Muslims within the subforum.

In this thread, I intend to present evidence regarding the poor moderation of the Religion subforum and how certain users, alongside Meadow, are effectively destroying it.

I’d like to remind everyone of the appeal I filed regarding the Aisha thread and how poorly it was handled; what could have been a productive discussion was completely ruined. There wasn't even a real debate in that thread from the moment it opened—just a few posts before everything was moved from another thread's off-topic section. You all took the moderator's side in that instance, and now the thread is gone; if nothing is done, this will happen to every other decent topic on the site.

Expect the same group of trolls to show up here to try and obstruct this complaint as well.

I attempted to speak with Meadow directly to explain my frustrations with her moderation style in the appropriate feedback thread, but she shut me down curtly, telling me to take my complaints exclusively to the administrator via PM and warning me not to reply to her posts again.

posts 2356, 2357, 2358, 2359

A recent example is a post by an anonymous user on a serious topic titled "The Supernatural Works of Muhammad," where they posted a caricature of Muhammad to mock him, followed immediately by a post from another user saying, "Wow, you're so wicked," accompanied by a laughing emoji.

posts 64 and 65

posts 142, 143, 163
And finally, look at the moderator's post at 147.

posts 2967, 2971, 2972, 2974, 2975, 2977

posts 369, 371, 373, 375, 380

These are just the most recent threads and posts; I have clicked the report button countless times to no avail. How long is this mockery of believers going to be permitted in the Religion subforum?
Where does the freedom of atheists end and the protection of a believer's dignity begin? Is it really acceptable to ridicule someone just because they believe in aliens, God, or anything else that hasn't been scientifically proven yet?

Do those who don't believe in God or religion have the right to spread blatant lies under the guise of free speech whenever they feel like it?

I sincerely hope this is reviewed seriously, even though I am just one ordinary user.

Just wanted to share this thought.

@meadow is such a tactful, patient moderator, and she puts so much time and effort into the Religion sub. Honestly, way too much, if you ask me. It's just too much, considering how ungrateful everyone is being—myself included. I just don't want her to burn out and walk away from everything...

Signature

I am formally requesting a review of a user's report regarding the religion sub-forum. This individual filed a complaint within the appeals book instead of using the designated thread for reports, which led to a moderator named Meadow warning them about spamming.

The rhetoric being used over there—especially those caricatures of Muhammad being posted—has crossed every possible line. If you all are looking for trouble with the police, fine, go ahead, but I’m warning you now: things are boiling over in that thread, and it might just end that way.
If the site administration decides to shut down the forum to investigate whether there are criminal grounds for filing hate speech charges, or if they decide whether this platform actually tolerates such content, don't come crying to me. I'm not the one at fault here.

Maybe we should invite the owner, Anderson, to drop by the forum once his bank account runs dry and the site goes dark. These aren't empty threats; I'm not making threats. I'm simply saying I intend to seek advice from a local Islamic association. We are going to review everything, and then we will decide whether or not to take this to the authorities.

This isn't something that can be swept under the rug, and everyone involved will have to answer legally for their actions.

I have tried to handle this politely, civilly, and strictly according to the forum rules by attempting a diplomatic solution internally. However, it's clear to me that this issue is being ignored and there is no desire to address the very problem I warned you about.

Issues with the police?

Who's trolling now!

Justin Harris12 said:I am formally requesting a review of a user's report regarding the religion sub-forum. This individual filed a complaint within the appeals book instead of using the designated thread for reports, which led to a moderator named Meadow warning them about spamming.

The rhetoric being used over there—especially those caricatures of Muhammad being posted—has crossed every possible line. If you all are looking for trouble with the police, fine, go ahead, but I’m warning you now: things are boiling over in that thread, and it might just end that way.
If the site administration decides to shut down the forum to investigate whether there are criminal grounds for filing hate speech charges, or if they decide whether this platform actually tolerates such content, don't come crying to me. I'm not the one at fault here.

Maybe we should invite the owner, Anderson, to drop by the forum once his bank account runs dry and the site goes dark. These aren't empty threats; I'm not making threats. I'm simply saying I intend to seek advice from a local Islamic association. We are going to review everything, and then we will decide whether or not to take this to the authorities.

This isn't something that can be swept under the rug, and everyone involved will have to answer legally for their actions.

I have tried to handle this politely, civilly, and strictly according to the forum rules by attempting a diplomatic solution internally. However, it's clear to me that this issue is being ignored and there is no desire to address the very problem I warned you about.

I don't know where you live, but in a civilized society, people are allowed to mock anything—including religion.
If you can't handle it, stop reading their posts and move on.
It's especially obvious since you only complain when your own faith is mocked, yet stay silent when others face the same treatment. That doesn't work. Either criticizing every religion is wrong (as if), or criticism is allowed for everything. In a civilized society, it's the latter.

slycrane94 said:I don't know where you live, but in a civilized society, people are allowed to mock anything—including religion.
If you can't handle it, stop reading their posts and move on.
It's especially obvious since you only complain when your own faith is mocked, yet stay silent when others face the same treatment. That doesn't work. Either criticizing every religion is wrong (as if), or criticism is allowed for everything. In a civilized society, it's the latter.

So, according to you, Muslims aren't "civilized," and America and Western nations are the ultimate yardstick for civilization?
By what metric, if I may ask?

It isn't really about whether I read the posts or not; the issue is that this is a discussion forum meant for debate. There are certain things written against Islam that I simply don't like, and that's fine—I'm going to try to defend them with actual arguments. What I'm writing here goes way deeper than just mocking Islam; I'm not that thin-skinned. The point is that myself and a few other users have provided proof of constant rule-breaking and the refusal to follow guidelines by almost the same group of people, and it's always specifically regarding Islam. You've accused me of only defending Islam and not other religions; well, yes, that's true. While I don't disrespect or belittle any other faiths, I am here to defend Islam, and I will continue to do so as long as I am able. That is my interest, and I follow my interests. Other religions aren't my concern, even though I respect their followers.

So, you admins didn't actually bother reading my first post, did you? Instead, you decided to jump in with this response out of some sense of agenda, making it look like my only complaint is the mockery of Islam. Is that really how this is being framed?
As administrators, do you honestly believe that mocking religion, inciting hatred, and promoting racial intolerance are permitted on this forum?

According to one part of the sub-forum rules:

"Insulting other users, intentionally provoking personal arguments, non-constructive nationalistic, religious, or similar conflicts (trolling), or starting threads about other members (except for celebratory purposes)."

If one user writes that Muhammad was a pedophile and a murderer, another compares him to Hitler, and a third posts a caricature of Muhammad that incites malice and racial or interfaith hatred—and if you guys approve of all that—then I don't think I'm overreacting. But again, I truly hope someone will actually read my initial post without jumping to conclusions beforehand.

Justin Harris12 said:I am formally requesting a review of a user's report regarding the religion sub-forum. This individual filed a complaint within the appeals book instead of using the designated thread for reports, which led to a moderator named Meadow warning them about spamming.

The rhetoric being used over there—especially those caricatures of Muhammad being posted—has crossed every possible line. If you all are looking for trouble with the police, fine, go ahead, but I’m warning you now: things are boiling over in that thread, and it might just end that way.
If the site administration decides to shut down the forum to investigate whether there are criminal grounds for filing hate speech charges, or if they decide whether this platform actually tolerates such content, don't come crying to me. I'm not the one at fault here.

Maybe we should invite the owner, Anderson, to drop by the forum once his bank account runs dry and the site goes dark. These aren't empty threats; I'm not making threats. I'm simply saying I intend to seek advice from a local Islamic association. We are going to review everything, and then we will decide whether or not to take this to the authorities.

This isn't something that can be swept under the rug, and everyone involved will have to answer legally for their actions.

I have tried to handle this politely, civilly, and strictly according to the forum rules by attempting a diplomatic solution internally. However, it's clear to me that this issue is being ignored and there is no desire to address the very problem I warned you about.

This marks the second time we've seen threats involving the police coming from those users on the Religion board, right alongside H.B. Velidov's threats to go to the media (though, I suppose he might have threatened the police too, I can't say for sure). It's always the same pattern: either people are being accused of discrimination, or they're threatening to call the press or the cops. Is the whole concept of free discussion on an online forum really that difficult to grasp? Go ahead, print out the screenshots and run straight to the precinct just because someone on the internet told you not to disrespect your faith. Good grief, honestly, how do you even live with yourself?

Justin Harris12 said:So, according to you, Muslims aren't "civilized," and America and Western nations are the ultimate yardstick for civilization?
By what metric, if I may ask?

It isn't really about whether I read the posts or not; the issue is that this is a discussion forum meant for debate. There are certain things written against Islam that I simply don't like, and that's fine—I'm going to try to defend them with actual arguments. What I'm writing here goes way deeper than just mocking Islam; I'm not that thin-skinned. The point is that myself and a few other users have provided proof of constant rule-breaking and the refusal to follow guidelines by almost the same group of people, and it's always specifically regarding Islam. You've accused me of only defending Islam and not other religions; well, yes, that's true. While I don't disrespect or belittle any other faiths, I am here to defend Islam, and I will continue to do so as long as I am able. That is my interest, and I follow my interests. Other religions aren't my concern, even though I respect their followers.

So, you admins didn't actually bother reading my first post, did you? Instead, you decided to jump in with this response out of some sense of agenda, making it look like my only complaint is the mockery of Islam. Is that really how this is being framed?
As administrators, do you honestly believe that mocking religion, inciting hatred, and promoting racial intolerance are permitted on this forum?

According to one part of the sub-forum rules:

"Insulting other users, intentionally provoking personal arguments, non-constructive nationalistic, religious, or similar conflicts (trolling), or starting threads about other members (except for celebratory purposes)."

If one user writes that Muhammad was a pedophile and a murderer, another compares him to Hitler, and a third posts a caricature of Muhammad that incites malice and racial or interfaith hatred—and if you guys approve of all that—then I don't think I'm overreacting. But again, I truly hope someone will actually read my initial post without jumping to conclusions beforehand.

I'm not an admin involved in management policy, so I couldn't care less about that. I'm responding because I'm bothered by the logic that "when something dear to me is mocked/criticized/insulted, it's a tragedy, but when the same happens to anything else, it's fine."

Catholics have complained here multiple times about being constantly told that a bunch of priests are pedophiles and such. I haven't seen you jump up to defend the Catholic Church or whatever.

Regarding civilization, you have a point. Any country that restricts free speech and creates "sacred cows" that cannot be mocked is not a civilized country.

For instance, over in Germany, some crazy priest in Bavaria tried to push for a law to protect the Catholic Church from criticism, and people basically told him where to go. That's a relatively civilized nation.

PS: There's a reason why I'm not consulted on the forum's editorial policy. Just wait for Nicole James to give the official response.

Justin Harris12 said:I am formally requesting a review of a user's report regarding the religion sub-forum. This individual filed a complaint within the appeals book instead of using the designated thread for reports, which led to a moderator named Meadow warning them about spamming.

The rhetoric being used over there—especially those caricatures of Muhammad being posted—has crossed every possible line. If you all are looking for trouble with the police, fine, go ahead, but I’m warning you now: things are boiling over in that thread, and it might just end that way.
If the site administration decides to shut down the forum to investigate whether there are criminal grounds for filing hate speech charges, or if they decide whether this platform actually tolerates such content, don't come crying to me. I'm not the one at fault here.

Maybe we should invite the owner, Anderson, to drop by the forum once his bank account runs dry and the site goes dark. These aren't empty threats; I'm not making threats. I'm simply saying I intend to seek advice from a local Islamic association. We are going to review everything, and then we will decide whether or not to take this to the authorities.

This isn't something that can be swept under the rug, and everyone involved will have to answer legally for their actions.

I have tried to handle this politely, civilly, and strictly according to the forum rules by attempting a diplomatic solution internally. However, it's clear to me that this issue is being ignored and there is no desire to address the very problem I warned you about.

By the way, are you going to ask that local group if everyone who disagrees with the "beauties" of Sharia law (as your buddy put it) needs to be immediately slapped with cardboard boxes and .... Ok, napisao sam u leksikonu o šerijatu i nadam se da ćeš sada kažnjavati ako budu uvrede o šerijatu i svemu što je uvreda i ismijavanje, samo pravednost želim, jednake kriterije za sve i normalnu atmosferu na forumu. I to je to! Pozdrav!']punished?
Though, honestly, we should probably be grateful since, hey, Sharia would be introduced gradually. Just so the rest of us non-Muslims don't commit collective suicide. You'd give us time to adjust...
Wow, how generous!

While you're at it, ask that group about implementing Sharia in Canada when they hit 80% (see the link above)—would that be gradual too, or what?

That’s not how it works.

Sharia isn't happening in Europe. Nor is any other theocracy. Not today, not tomorrow, forget it!
Europe is secular. It will stay that way, whether you like it or not...

slycrane94 said:I'm not an admin involved in management policy, so I couldn't care less about that. I'm responding because I'm bothered by the logic that "when something dear to me is mocked/criticized/insulted, it's a tragedy, but when the same happens to anything else, it's fine."

Catholics have complained here multiple times about being constantly told that a bunch of priests are pedophiles and such. I haven't seen you jump up to defend the Catholic Church or whatever.

Regarding civilization, you have a point. Any country that restricts free speech and creates "sacred cows" that cannot be mocked is not a civilized country.

For instance, over in Germany, some crazy priest in Bavaria tried to push for a law to protect the Catholic Church from criticism, and people basically told him where to go. That's a relatively civilized nation.

PS: There's a reason why I'm not consulted on the forum's editorial policy. Just wait for Nicole James to give the official response.

Look, I’m not out here advocating for or endorsing the desecration of any religion. But when people start coming for mine? I’m ready to run straight to the police. I haven't said otherwise, and I'm not complaining about that stance. When you look at how civilization works, take France, for example—they’ve actually banned the wearing of the burka. You have a Western nation dictating dress codes; a country that restricts freedom of clothing, especially when its neighbor, the Netherlands, allows nudists but still bans the burka. It’s a strange contradiction. I am not calling for a ban on criticizing Islam. There is a massive difference between legitimate criticism and blatant insults. To take a figure like Muhammad, who is recognized by not just Muslims but by many around the world and within other faiths as one of the greatest moral leaders to ever walk this earth, and label him a pedophile or a murderer—claiming he was just like Hitler—that is beyond critique. Putting up caricatures of him with exaggerated eyebrows, a huge nose, and a scimitar in his hand isn't "debate." It’s nothing more than inciting hatred and religious intolerance.

If I recall correctly, you guys actually stripped an avatar off one of our members once, didn't you? He had an image of an Israeli flag being trampled in his hand, and shortly after that, he was hit with a permanent ban. That whole "incident" was cited as part of the reason for the ban, too. Yet, on the flip side, you always seem to hide behind the banner of free speech whenever people start attacking or labeling Muslims on this forum. It's a bit of a double standard, isn't it?

Sam Alvarez4 said:By the way, are you going to ask that local group if everyone who disagrees with the "beauties" of Sharia law (as your buddy put it) needs to be immediately slapped with cardboard boxes and punished?
Though, honestly, we should probably be grateful since, hey, Sharia would be introduced gradually. Just so the rest of us non-Muslims don't commit collective suicide. You'd give us time to adjust...
Wow, how generous!

While you're at it, ask that group about implementing Sharia in Canada when they hit 80% (see the link above)—would that be gradual too, or what?

That’s not how it works.

Sharia isn't happening in Europe. Nor is any other theocracy. Not today, not tomorrow, forget it!
Europe is secular. It will stay that way, whether you like it or not...

I honestly have no idea why everyone keeps assuming I'm some kind of Canadian nationalist, where is this coming from? 🤷
Or that I'm actually living in Canada right now?
Do you really think Muslims only exist in Canada? You're making assumptions out of thin air. I haven't been advocating for Sharia in America or anywhere else in the West; that’s a total fabrication and a lie. And I have no clue why you claimed he was my "colleague"? Just because we're both Muslim? There are over a billion Muslims on this planet; does that make every single one of them my colleague?

Justin Harris12 said:Look, I’m not out here advocating for or endorsing the desecration of any religion. But when people start coming for mine? I’m ready to run straight to the police. I haven't said otherwise, and I'm not complaining about that stance. When you look at how civilization works, take France, for example—they’ve actually banned the wearing of the burka. You have a Western nation dictating dress codes; a country that restricts freedom of clothing, especially when its neighbor, the Netherlands, allows nudists but still bans the burka. It’s a strange contradiction. I am not calling for a ban on criticizing Islam. There is a massive difference between legitimate criticism and blatant insults. To take a figure like Muhammad, who is recognized by not just Muslims but by many around the world and within other faiths as one of the greatest moral leaders to ever walk this earth, and label him a pedophile or a murderer—claiming he was just like Hitler—that is beyond critique. Putting up caricatures of him with exaggerated eyebrows, a huge nose, and a scimitar in his hand isn't "debate." It’s nothing more than inciting hatred and religious intolerance.

If I recall correctly, you guys actually stripped an avatar off one of our members once, didn't you? He had an image of an Israeli flag being trampled in his hand, and shortly after that, he was hit with a permanent ban. That whole "incident" was cited as part of the reason for the ban, too. Yet, on the flip side, you always seem to hide behind the banner of free speech whenever people start attacking or labeling Muslims on this forum. It's a bit of a double standard, isn't it?

I already told you, my opinion isn't an official stance. My views don't align much with how this forum is run, which is exactly why nobody asks me for them.

The idea that Western countries aren't civilized is obvious. Just because someone lives in the West doesn't make them civilized. On the other hand, there are certainly issues regarding religious demands. For instance, something like incest is something the law would forbid, and those who do it would face 20+ years in prison. It's the same issue with women who cover their entire faces. How are you supposed to identify someone if you can't see their face? There has to be a limit to what is permitted in the name of religious freedom.

As for debating who qualifies as a moral giant, we could talk about that from sunrise to sunset.

Haha, seriously—just call the police and tell them you want to file a formal report for mocking Islam.

If I may offer my perspective: freedom of speech is a complicated matter. Most people seem perfectly happy to champion the right to say whatever they please, yet they often struggle when that same liberty allows others to criticize—or even mock—them. Within the context of an online forum, I believe free expression should be restricted just enough to exclude targeted personal insults and the promotion of behavior that violates US law. As long as those boundaries are respected, both proponents and critics of religion (of any kind) should be allowed their space to speak.

William Bennett53 said:If I may offer my perspective: freedom of speech is a complicated matter. Most people seem perfectly happy to champion the right to say whatever they please, yet they often struggle when that same liberty allows others to criticize—or even mock—them. Within the context of an online forum, I believe free expression should be restricted just enough to exclude targeted personal insults and the promotion of behavior that violates US law. As long as those boundaries are respected, both proponents and critics of religion (of any kind) should be allowed their space to speak.

That’s exactly what I was getting at. I'm not trying to force my personal preferences on anyone; I was simply reacting to the fact that the first post in this thread was riddled with oversights and unpunished rule violations. In my view, some of this crosses the line regarding American legal standards, but since I've clearly become too subjective about this, I'll leave it to those with cooler heads to make the final call.

slycrane94 said:I already told you, my opinion isn't an official stance. My views don't align much with how this forum is run, which is exactly why nobody asks me for them.

The idea that Western countries aren't civilized is obvious. Just because someone lives in the West doesn't make them civilized. On the other hand, there are certainly issues regarding religious demands. For instance, something like incest is something the law would forbid, and those who do it would face 20+ years in prison. It's the same issue with women who cover their entire faces. How are you supposed to identify someone if you can't see their face? There has to be a limit to what is permitted in the name of religious freedom.

As for debating who qualifies as a moral giant, we could talk about that from sunrise to sunset.

Look, I agree with most of what you said, but let's be real: circumcision is basically a routine medical procedure in hospitals nowadays for hygiene reasons, regardless of any religious tie. That said, I wouldn't do it to my own kids, and I definitely don't plan to.

Nicole James said:Haha, seriously—just call the police and tell them you want to file a formal report for mocking Islam.

Is this even what we call communication?

And you're supposed to be the "super moderator" of this subforum, apparently.

Justin Harris12 said:I’ve started this thread because I need to vent about the Religion subforum.
There are several fundamental issues with the Religion section right now.

First off, the subforum itself doesn't actually function as a space for religious discussion at all. Second, there is a specific group of users who constantly poison and troll every single thread that gets opened, regardless of whether they actually know anything about the subject matter; they just fabricate nonsense, and when serious users try to refute their lies with actual evidence, they simply ignore them by doubling down on more falsehoods and repetitive mantras until the more thoughtful contributors are completely exhausted. Lately, the Religion subforum has spiraled out of control, turning into nothing more than a breeding ground for insults and endless bickering.

The third issue involves the moderator, Meadow, who openly sides with the exact group I just described while simultaneously demonstrating an undeniable intolerance toward Muslims within the subforum.

In this thread, I intend to present evidence regarding the poor moderation of the Religion subforum and how certain users, alongside Meadow, are effectively destroying it.

I’d like to remind everyone of the appeal I filed regarding the Aisha thread and how poorly it was handled; what could have been a productive discussion was completely ruined. There wasn't even a real debate in that thread from the moment it opened—just a few posts before everything was moved from another thread's off-topic section. You all took the moderator's side in that instance, and now the thread is gone; if nothing is done, this will happen to every other decent topic on the site.

Expect the same group of trolls to show up here to try and obstruct this complaint as well.

I attempted to speak with Meadow directly to explain my frustrations with her moderation style in the appropriate feedback thread, but she shut me down curtly, telling me to take my complaints exclusively to the administrator via PM and warning me not to reply to her posts again.

posts 2356, 2357, 2358, 2359

A recent example is a post by an anonymous user on a serious topic titled "The Supernatural Works of Muhammad," where they posted a caricature of Muhammad to mock him, followed immediately by a post from another user saying, "Wow, you're so wicked," accompanied by a laughing emoji.

posts 64 and 65

posts 142, 143, 163
And finally, look at the moderator's post at 147.

posts 2967, 2971, 2972, 2974, 2975, 2977

posts 369, 371, 373, 375, 380

These are just the most recent threads and posts; I have clicked the report button countless times to no avail. How long is this mockery of believers going to be permitted in the Religion subforum?
Where does the freedom of atheists end and the protection of a believer's dignity begin? Is it really acceptable to ridicule someone just because they believe in aliens, God, or anything else that hasn't been scientifically proven yet?

Do those who don't believe in God or religion have the right to spread blatant lies under the guise of free speech whenever they feel like it?

I sincerely hope this is reviewed seriously, even though I am just one ordinary user.

🤣
Well, you certainly picked the right place to complain. You might as well forget about it. We have had these exact same discussions at least ten times before, and they always end the same way.

If you want my advice, stop reporting insults or anything of that nature altogether. In fact, it would actually be better for your cause if those kinds of posts were allowed to accumulate on the forum. By reporting them, you are simply helping the administration scrub the evidence. For them, the worst-case scenario is when such content remains visible (assuming it truly constitutes an insult). Don't take those stories about the police too seriously; they are largely irrelevant here. There are much more significant issues regarding this forum and its owners, but addressing them takes time. Therefore, if your goal is to cause actual damage, DO NOT report posts—instead, encourage them. 😉

Justin Harris12 said:Is this even what we call communication?

And you're supposed to be the "super moderator" of this subforum, apparently.

Oh, please. This is exactly how it should be. The more, the merrier.