F1 Italian GP - Monza (Sept 2, 2018)

neonfox65 said:I'm not sure if anyone else caught this.

https://twitter.com/AldonaMarciniak/...41642209062912

https://twitter.com/OfficialMinis/st...22544599613441

Naturally, there’s absolutely no talk of penalizing Sebastian Vettel at Monza; those officials simply aren't doing anything about it.

I find myself wondering why no penalty was issued.😁

It's pretty wild that the Sky commentators were all over this, but they never actually showed the 😬—they were even hinting he was about to get hit with a penalty.
And honestly, the way they handled the Safety Car was just idiotic. Why the rush to bring the SC out when they haven't even cleared the car off the track yet? I guess they're just in a hurry to 😬

Anthony Baker84 said:It’s pretty wild that the Sky commentators were all over that—they kept hinting at a penalty, yet they never actually showed the 😬 footage.
Plus, that behavior behind the Safety Car was just plain idiotic. Why the rush to get the SC out on track when they haven't even cleared the car yet? I don't know what the hurry is with 😬

Honestly, though, you can't really blame the driver here. The team should be the ones getting penalized—maybe they ought to give the person who gave the signal a serious talking-to! If they had collided and a piece of debris ended up flying into a mechanic's throat, then everyone would be asking "why" and "how" real fast...

Jack Kelly5 said:There was a three to three-and-a-half second gap between Kimi Räikkönen and Sebastian Vettel in that Q3 lap. Question for you and the rest of the "experts": what kind of fluid dynamics formula did you use to decide that a negative drag effect was created, somehow giving Kimi better aero?

Whether they actually created an effect or not doesn't matter...
What matters is that they went out in a formation that’s honestly just idiotic, especially with Vettel fighting for the title. 🤦

The fact remains that Kimi absolutely could have used Vettel’s slipstream—and not once, but twice in Q3—because they were out in that exact formation both times...
Whether he actually used it or not is up to him... but it's equally true that Vettel couldn't use his.

Everything else is just down to the Ferrari boss, who clearly has no clue what he's doing. 🤦

Unfortunately, no matter how much I dislike Toto Wolff, he’s still a genius compared to Alberto Rivollino when it comes to team management...
The tragic part? Even Jean Todt is a genius compared to Alberto Rivollino. Honestly, looking at the lineup, the only boss worse than Alberto Rivollino is Eric, and he’s already feeling the heat...

Walter Anderson43 said:This is a textbook penalty... but they should be punishing the crew. It’s ridiculous for a driver—whoever is stuck in this mess—to take a penalty just because some idiots on the pit wall flashed the green light too early.

It doesn't matter which specific crew members deserve the heat; the penalty lands on the driver. It’s a joke that Sebastian Vettel didn't get hit with one...
More absolute incompetence from the stewards. Honestly, they're an embarrassment to the sport. 🤦

I guess this is just more "compensation" for that first-lap incident. 🙂
Because based on how things have gone lately, Lewis Hamilton is usually the one getting slapped with a 5-second penalty. Not necessarily because he caused the contact, or even if he was at fault, or even if he had anything to do with it at all...
It's just because the stewards seem to operate on a system where they decide who the victim is in a fight between Mercedes and Ferrari, and then punish whoever didn't come out on top.
In reality, none of those collisions should have been penalized anyway. Every single one of them should have been treated as a standard first-lap racing incident with zero penalties, which is exactly what happened...

But hey, there's nothing new to say about this kind of inconsistency. It's just business as usual.

Gary Palmer8 said:I still don't get why some of those cars that Vettel was catching right before the corner didn't even try to defend—they just let him through. I get it if he caught them halfway through, but those Force India guys didn't even attempt a defense... take that moment when he overtook; if Sergio Perez had actually tried to block (or whoever it was), he would've slammed straight into him. That would've been great news for the Mercedes fans and Kimi fans 😁 plus maybe a penalty for Vettel...

For the exact same reason Esteban Ocon pulled that masterclass move on Lewis Hamilton in Monaco...
It was clearly the smartest move for the FIA and Ocon. What does it matter what happened to Lewis, Vettel, Ferrari, or Mercedes? None of that affects him. 🙄

Besides, it would have been incredibly "smart" for Perez to crash into Vettel. It would’ve been great for his team, and even better for his future contract since the media is currently tearing him to shreds.🙂

crimsonhawk23 said:

Perez slammed right into Kevin Magnussen, who was actually moving faster. He didn't just clip him, either—he plowed straight into him and shoved him clean off the track. 🤷

If I remember correctly, Kevin Magnussen earned that penalty fair and square. He probably didn't get punished for any other reason—it’s not like he walked away unscathed anyway.

If I remember correctly, Kevin Magnussen just stormed back onto the track through the grass like a total maniac—right after spinning off himself. Then came the contact. Honestly, I have zero clue when they decided that kind of reentry was actually legal...

so look, soccer has rules, it has referees, and they're actually licensed—plus they’ve got VAR now too

F1 basically has its own version of VAR, but there aren't really any actual rules... they just seem to apply them however the team bosses feel like at the moment. No licensed officials or anything

my take is that if F1 is gonna keep trying to ban stuff, they seriously need some actual licensed refs. If they just want to "judge" things based on vibes like they always have, then honestly, they should just scrap the officials entirely and let them race how they know how—but then nobody gets to complain when things go sideways after a crash

Anthony Baker84 said:Well, soccer has rules, it has referees who are actually licensed, and now they even have VAR.

F1 has its own version of VAR, sure, but there aren't any actual rules—just things they enforce whenever the Team Principal feels like it. No licensed officials in sight.

Bottom line: if they’re going to keep banning stuff, F1 needs actual licensed officials. If they just want to "judge" things based on whims like they always have, they might as well scrap the officials entirely and let them race how they want. But then there'd be no crying after every crash.

I’m honestly afraid having licensed officials would make things even worse.🤦
God forbid, the first guy to get a license would probably be some ultra-biased dude like Mark Webber.🤦
That would be an absolute embarrassment for the sport. At least the way it is now, they don't ruin every single race...

Honestly, the smartest move would be to stop handing out driver penalties altogether.
The only thing they should keep is the race ban or a black flag for those truly massive screw-ups that deserve the harshest punishment.
Most of these tiny little penalties are just a complete joke anyway...

Lewis Hamilton absolutely ran circles around Sebastian Vettel—it was honestly embarrassing to watch someone with four titles look that lost 😵

The sheer amount of mistakes made under pressure is getting ridiculous; at this point, it’s just sad to witness. Instead of playing nice and letting Hamilton through—who clearly had the pace to pull away anyway—he just ends up slamming right into his 🤦

I have to give Kimi Räikkönen props for not yielding to Sebastian Vettel; he really didn't have any reason to, either. Honestly, who cares about team orders when your contract is basically up the door? What's it to him? All Sebastian really needed to do was hold off Hamilton instead of lunging at Kimi, and the race would have been wrapped up tight.

Secondly, Ferrari got completely dismantled tactically by Mercedes—they basically buried them alive right in the middle of Monza. It doesn't matter if you have the faster car if your pit wall is a total disaster 🤦

Valtteri Bottas, man, what a complete pushover 🙂

exactly how he puts it:
Honestly man, respect—if only we had more people being objective like you! Then instead of all this constant bickering, we’d actually have some decent, normal discussions for once. You've got my🙏

edit; And hey, don't be surprised when they start coming after you—it’s only going to get more intense from here. Hang in there! 🙂

I always try to stay objective, really. Honestly, there isn't even much left to debate after these last couple of seasons—Lewis Hamilton is just in a league of his own.

electriccanyon6 said:I try to stay objective, and honestly, there isn't much left to debate after these last couple of seasons. Hamilton is just in a league of his own.

Exactly. Just pure objectivity and nothing else... plus, it's pretty obvious you aren't some die-hard Hamilton fan😍
I'm actually curious, though—what kind of excuses are being cooked up for when Hamilton manages to pull it off against the Blockers and Woody Woodpecker, only to lose out on a title that was basically already won against nobody more than Vettel and that ultra-slow old man Kimi...

stormybadger8 said:It is simply a matter of being objective, nothing more... and I might add, it is quite evident you aren't exactly a Hamilton supporter.😍
I am genuinely curious about what excuses are being prepared for when Hamilton fails to keep up with the Blockers and Woody Woodpecker ends up losing a title that was practically already his.

Hamilton should have lost the championship already; Vettel personally ensured that didn't happen.
It would be quite a strange turn of events if Hamilton managed to win a title with such a slower car, though given how things are trending, it remains a possibility.

So, what kind of excuses are we supposed to hunt for on Hamilton's behalf?
Hamilton provides his own excuses—take, for instance, when two fast cars pull up alongside him on the outside of a chicane.
Or when a slower car manages to grab pole position in the pouring rain.

Which part of this is unclear to you?

stormybadger8 said:It’s just pure objectivity, nothing more... and honestly, it's pretty obvious you aren't exactly a Hamilton fanboy 😍
I'm actually dying to know what kind of excuses are being cooked up for when Hamilton inevitably manages to beat the Blockers—only for Woody Woodpecker to basically throw it all away! And that's after he's already secured the title against none other than Vettel and that super slow old man, Kimi...

I've been pulling for Ferrari since 1996—back when Schumacher joined the team. I actually first started following him during his Benetton days, and his move over was really what triggered my whole Ferrari obsession. I was barely ten years old at the time!

I've been a die-hard Ferrari fan for over twenty years now, but let's be real—Vettel doesn't even come close to Hamilton's level.

mellowtiger83 said:Hamilton should've lost the title already! Vettel personally made sure he didn't!
It would be pretty weird if Hamilton won the championship in a slower car, but given how things are going, who knows?

So, what kind of excuses are they supposed to dig up for Hamilton?
Hamilton justifies himself by, say, squeezing two faster cars out on the outside of a chicane!
Or Hamilton justifies himself when a slower car somehow grabs pole in the rain!

Which part of this are you struggling with?

The part about the slower car🙂
Talk all you want, but even you can't wrap your head around this tiny gap...
https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

For God's sake, a full second faster in FL than Kimi? Even if a reincarnated Ayrton Senna was walking on water, there's zero chance he'd pull off an FL that much faster than the car you think is quicker...
And that's against cars at the same weight, on the same tires, with Kimi behind the wheel—who, if he's a specialist in anything, is pulling off an FL...
Sure, Kimi might mess up qualifying or the race about 50% of the time. He might blow a start or a restart. But he’ll nail an FL every single time if the car has any decent pace at all.☕
If you still don't get why I'm saying this, go educate yourself...http://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiqu...ur/nombre.aspx

That Ferrari at Indianapolis wasn't even close; miraculously, the Mercedes was exactly one second faster than it.☕

But hey, don't forget to mention that Mercedes is drastically slower than Ferrari and that Bottas is some ultimate alien who somehow stole a mysterious 0.6 seconds from Alonso on track.🙂

I don't remember him all that clearly—I definitely caught his last season when he passed away, though! And maybe the one before that too.

mellowtiger83 said:Hamilton should have lost the title by now—but I guess Vettel personally made sure that didn't happen.

Vettel has dropped about 44 points so far. If he hadn't, he might have had maybe a 26-point lead over Hamilton—I’m too lazy to do the actual math, so I'm just eyeballing it. It's probably hard to say if that would have cost Lewis the title, given there are still seven Grand Prix left in the season.

I was reading somewhere—maybe in MotorTrend or an Aston Martin report—that Kimi actually has a clause in his contract allowing him to fight for the win without being held back by team orders if he manages to snag pole.

stormybadger8 said:Man, talk about a slow car! 🙂
Go ahead and rant all you want, but you can't even explain this tiny gap yourself...
https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

Seriously, FL being a whole second faster than Kimi? I mean, come on—even if a reincarnated Ayrton Senna was walking on water, there is absolutely no way he could pull off an FL that's a full second faster than what you're claiming is a "faster" car...
And we’re talking about the exact same weight, the exact same tires, and Kimi is the one in the seat! If anyone is a specialist at extracting pace, it’s him—he'll nail an FL if the car has any life in it at all...
Sure, Kimi might totally mess up qualifying or the race like 50% of the time, but he'll find that FL every single time if the car isn't complete garbage...

That Ferrari definitely wasn't it back at Indianapolis—not even close—and somehow, miraculously, the Bear was exactly one second faster than it ☕

But hey, don't forget to mention that Mercedes is drastically slower than Ferrari and that Valtteri Bottas is basically an alien who somehow swiped a mysterious 0.6 seconds from Alonso on the fly 🙂

1. Kimi was the fastest in practice; his car wasn't slower than anyone else's.
2. Kimi absolutely trashed his tires by constantly cutting the corners and picking up gravel, I think it was turn 3—I'm not 100% sure off the top of my head—but I saw the replay a few times where he spins out on the rear left into the gravel...
3. Vettel was putting in times that actually compare to Mercedes; he was even catching up to Bottas and Max Verstappen—it just took him a few more laps to get there.

stormybadger8 said:God, this slow car 🙂
Go ahead and ramble all you want, but you can't even explain this tiny margin to yourself...
https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

A whole second faster on the FL than Kimi? For heaven's sake, even if a reincarnated Ayrton Senna were walking on water, there is no theory where he could pull an FL a full second faster than what is effectively a much quicker car according to you...
And that's against cars of the exact same weight, on the same tires, and with Kimi behind the wheel—who, if he's a specialist at anything, is a specialist at pulling an FL...
Sure, Kimi will mess up qualifying or the race about 50% of the time; sure, he’ll botch the start or a restart; but he will always pull an FL if the car has any decent pace whatsoever. ☕
If you don't understand why I'm saying this, go educate yourself...http://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiqu...ur/nombre.aspx

That Ferrari at Indianapolis wasn't even close; by some miracle, the Mercedes was exactly one second faster than it. ☕

Though, one shouldn't forget to mention that Mercedes is drastically slower than Ferrari and that Valtteri Bottas is an absolute alien who also managed to steal those mysterious 0.6 seconds from Alonso. 🙂

So what? What does an FL have to do with anything? Throughout history, barely even notable drivers have pulled an FL during a race! For instance, if I recall correctly, Alonso pulled an FL at Indianapolis in that junk Honda a few years back!
Cars that aren't even remotely competitive used to pull FLs.

Daniel Ricciardo pulled plenty of FLs this year, so Red Bull realistically can't even compete unless it's on very specific tracks.

What specifically does an FL mean to you? To me, it's a useless, irrelevant statistic that shows absolutely nothing.

Ferrari was fast in FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, and Q3, and now you're trying to convince me that Mercedes is actually the fast one.
Dammit.