F1 Italian GP - Monza (Sept 2, 2018)

jadeseal7 said:Valtteri, seriously—what a little underdog 🙂

I mean, how could he have done any better than P3?

mellowtiger83 said:Ferrari was flying through FP1, FP2, FP3, and all the qualifying sessions—so now you're trying to tell me Mercedes is actually the fast one?!
Damn, seriously

Haha, can you believe we're seeing these same old glitches again... it's going to be a total self-destruct mission when Hamilton clinches a title in a slower car...

Gary Palmer8 said:haha, can you believe we’re seeing these spikes in the game again... what kind of self-destruct sequence is this going to be when Lewis Hamilton clinches the title in a slower car...

Okay, look, it’s not like Lewis Hamilton is driving some total junker right now. Honestly? My gut feeling is that Ferrari is actually just a tiny bit better than Aston Martin—but I mean, we're talking a literal hair's breadth here! The cars are basically identical this season; there isn't some massive performance gap, just a minor tweak that a legendary driver—someone like Michael Schumacher, for instance—might actually be able to exploit.

The difference this time around really comes down to the driver. Or, if I'm being blunt, Vettel just threw away way too many points during qualifying and other silly mistakes.

stormybadger8 said:Actually, everything you just said is wrong—unless you're counting qualifying sessions as practice rounds! 🤔

Yeah, I was actually talking about qualifying—totally misspoke there, my bad!

electriccanyon6 said:Honestly, I don't think Hamilton's car is actually that much worse right now. My gut feeling is that the Ferrari is just a tiny bit better—maybe by a single note—but they're basically identical this season. There isn't any massive gap between them; it's such a minor difference that you'd probably need someone like Michael Schumacher to even notice it.

The driver is what makes the difference this time around. Or, to put it more bluntly—Vettel just wasted way too many points on qualifying mishaps and other silly mistakes.

Well, I've been saying for ages that Vettel is just a tier below Hamilton.

Gary Palmer8 said:I mean, how could he have done any better than P3?

From what I gathered, he was playing support for Max—once Max pitted, he stayed out on track just to act like a classic number two driver and hold up Kimi Räikkönen. It was a struggle for him to even clinch P3 in the end. If this had been a different circuit, I doubt he would have pulled it off.

Anyway, like Valtteri Bottas mentioned earlier... 🤣🤣

Gary Palmer8 said:I still can't wrap my head around why some of these cars—the ones Vettel was catching right at the apex of the turn—didn't even bother defending? They just let him sail right past. I get it if he caught them mid-corner, but those Force India drivers didn't even attempt to hold their line. For instance, when Vettel pulled that overtake, if Perez (or whoever it was) had actually put up a fight, Vettel would have slammed straight into him. That would have been a dream scenario for the Mercedes camp and the Kimi fans 😁 plus maybe a penalty for Vettel...

It honestly bothers me too, even as a dedicated Ferrari fan. It’s frustrating seeing people just step aside for Ferrari and Mercedes. The reality is that there's a massive gap of 1.5 to 2 seconds per lap; when those teams start from the back, they can basically count on being at least five positions up by the end.

mellowtiger83 said:Oh really? What does F1 have to do with anything? Historically, weirdos have pulled off an overtake during a race all the time! For example, if I remember correctly, Alonso managed an overtake at Indianapolis with a total junk Honda engine a few years back!
Cars that aren't even close have pulled off overtakes before.

Ricciardo has had plenty of overtakes this year, so Red Bull basically can't touch anyone unless it's on very specific tracks.

What does an overtake actually mean to you? To me, it’s just a useless, irrelevant stat that doesn't prove a damn thing.

Ferrari was fast in FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, and Q3, and now you're trying to convince me that Mercedes is actually the fast one.
Seriously.

Sure, because when Alonso switches to fresh US tires on the last lap and barely manages an overtake, it's exactly the same as when Kimi and Lewis pull off an overtake on the same tires in practically the same lap while fighting directly for the lead...
Yeah, those two laps don't mean a thing.🙂

If that comparison of their two overtakes means nothing to you, then go watch snail racing instead of Formula 1.🤦
Screw FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, and Q3; I honestly don't see how any of that relates to actual race pace🙂 especially FP1.🙏
Because if we judge car speed based on that, then the damn FIA is faster than Ferrari and Mercedes.😍 Look, Ferrari wasn't even the fastest in FP1 like you think—it was Perez.🙂
Besides, both Haas cars were faster than the Bear by more than a second and a half in FP1. That Mercedes must be a real heavy piece of junk if it's over a second slower than Haas in FP1.🙂

Plus, in qualifying in Belgium, both Haas cars were ahead of both Red Bulls, plus one Ferrari and one Mercedes...
There goes your "logic." Who knows, maybe the FIA is actually the fastest car, or at least the second fastest, followed by the Bear.🙂

Toby, I also hold the opinion that Mercedes-Benz is actually faster than Ferrari 🙂.
Is that acceptable now?

electriccanyon6 said:I've been pulling for Ferrari since '96. I first caught Michael Schumacher racing for Benetton, and honestly, his move over is what made me a Ferrari fan. I was barely ten years old back then.

I've been a die-hard Ferrari fan for over twenty years now, but let's be real—Vettel isn't even in the same league as Lewis Hamilton.

Why do I get the feeling we should be typing McLaren instead of Ferrari here...🤔
Anyway, do I know you from somewhere? 😁

stormybadger8 said:Why do I have this weird feeling that instead of Ferrari we should be talking about McLaren here...🤔
Also—do I know you from somewhere? 😁

I really don't think we've met 🙂. I've never been much of a McLaren fan—honestly, I'm a huge Ferrari fan through and through—even if I do find myself driving a Mercedes-Benz quite often 🙂

P. S. I'm still holding onto the dream of driving a Ferrari one day. Right now, I'm nowhere near that level 😢

stormybadger8 said:How naive can you people be? 😂

This was a tactical move by Vettel, and honestly? It was a masterstroke. 🙏
Three flies, one swat. Simple as that. :t:

At the start, he’s ahead of Lewis Hamilton, but he's right there alongside him...
Kimi starts right on the nose of Lewis Hamilton. And honestly, we all know exactly how Kimi handles a start...
Is Kimi signing a new deal with Ferrari tonight? :tre p:

It looks like the race order is pretty much set: Sebastian Vettel, Kimi Räikkönen, then Lewis Hamilton. ☕

stormybadger8 said:And why exactly would that leave a bad taste in my mouth?
Honestly, I don't think those qualifying sessions could have gone any better for me. 😁
I am more than satisfied. 😁

stormybadger8 said:Finally, some actual competence from the Ferrari pit crew. Is it too much to ask for them to actually do their jobs? 🙏
Now those are masters. 👍

That move on the outside was brilliant. It’s great to see Kimi ahead of Lewis Hamilton. 😁

And finally, Kimi takes pole position. 🙏

The master just floors it, and suddenly, "the Mercedes-Benz is the faster car."

mellowtiger83 said:Toby, I totally agree that Mercedes-Benz is actually faster than Ferrari🙂.
Better?

Personally, I think they’re pretty much on par speed-wise... just shifting based on who nails the setup or which track suits them better from one race to the next...

But for some insane reason at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it wasn't even that weird that Ferrari was noticeably quicker during the FP-like sessions, and even faster in qualifying by quite a margin,
only for Mercedes-Benz to suddenly become way faster overnight during the actual race—and we're talking a massive gap, like they suddenly reclaimed last year's advantage...

It's super weird for this season; I haven't seen anything like this before, and I'm always glued to the times in every FP-like session, qualifying, and the race itself...

It's seriously confusing, and I can't find an explanation for it...
The only thing that makes sense to me is that the soft tires at Germany behaved like ultra-durable ultrasofts or hypersofts, while that same soft tire on the Ferrari felt like a Hard tire for speed but disintegrated like bubblegum...
I have no clue why... maybe it was the setup causing them to shred the tires, but still, it's bizarre how they lost all that pace they had just a day earlier.🤔

I mean, you can only imagine how much this threw off the folks at Mercedes-Benz too; just go read Toto Wolff's comments on the matter...

Jason Campbell70 said:The master just pins the throttle, and suddenly, "the Mercedes-Benz is the faster car."...

One second... ☕

crimsonhawk23 said:Sebastian Vettel has dropped about 44 points so far this season. If things had gone differently, he’d probably be sitting on a 26-point lead over Lewis Hamilton right now—or something like that, anyway. I’m feeling a bit too lazy to actually run the math, so I'm just throwing numbers out there... It’s hard to say if those seven remaining Grand Prix-like races would have been enough to cost Lewis Hamilton a lost championship...

Where on earth did you get 44 from? That number is way too low. You can't just look at how many points Sebastian Vettel bled out through his own boneheaded mistakes... you also have to factor in exactly how many extra points Lewis Hamilton gained because of them.

Sebastian Vettel is stuck behind Lewis Hamilton even though he’s got the better car, so I mean, it’s pretty damn obvious who the superior driver is between those two, unless you're one of those stormbadger8 types

Thomas Davis98 said:Where did you get 44 from? The number is actually much higher—you have to count not just how many points Vettel lost through his own silly mistakes, but also how many extra points Lewis Hamilton gained because of them.

The gap is +30 in favor of Lewis Hamilton now—I mentioned that earlier—whereas it would have been roughly +26 in favor of Vettel. I was just doing the math in my head since I'm away from my computer right now and don't really feel like squinting at my phone 😁, so I only mentioned the points Vettel wasted on pure errors.

Sebastian Vettel threw 25 points into a DHL commercial in Germany, had those mishaps in Baku, went 3-6 yesterday at Monza, and I think he lost a few points in France too. His performance in Austria wasn't exactly stellar either, though Lewis Hamilton retired there. I'm not counting China, since Max Verstappen hit him and knocked him out 😬—both Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton had one retirement each.

Once I’ve finally stopped fuming over everything (specifically the fact that Mercedes absolutely humiliated us), I’ll just say this: anyone who thinks Kimi should have tried to fight for the win, or aimed for pole, or whatever other nonsense, can honestly just go jump off a bridge right now.

Kimi Räikkönen should have let Sebastian Vettel pass him at the very first corner—even if it meant letting him finish dead last or not finishing the race at all.

Fastest laps aren't the true measure of a car's pace. And if you're trying to use Kimi as a benchmark, today's performance from him just doesn't make sense—the guy couldn't even pull away from Lewis during those first 23 laps. That was a complete disaster. If Vettel had been behind the wheel instead of Kimi, we probably would've seen a repeat of Spa, where Vettel likely would have cruised to a win by about 10 seconds.
Besides, the way Kimi drives isn't exactly ideal when it comes to tire management. He carries a fair bit of the blame for the rubber issues himself. In his post-race comments, Lewis mentioned that Kimi was taking poor lines through Lesmo and Parabolica—essentially hitting the worst parts of the corners for tire wear—which is exactly why he struggled so much with grip.
Vettel also admitted he was struggling with the car. He noted that the handling just wasn't there, so using Vettel’s lap times as a point of comparison isn't really a fair assessment either.

Raymond Anderson4 said:Fastest laps aren't really a true measure of a car's actual pace—and using Kimi as a benchmark seems a bit pointless these days, I guess, considering he couldn't even pull away from Lewis during those first 23 laps. It was a complete failure, honestly. If Sebastian Vettel had been out there instead of Kimi Räikkönen, I guess we might have seen a repeat of that Spa race—where Vettel probably would've cruised to a win by about ten seconds.

I agree with that—though maybe not regarding yesterday. Sebastian Vettel seemed far too jittery and scattered all weekend; I guess I just can't quite put my finger on what was bothering him. 🤷

That’s really the core difference between him and Lewis—no worries. Whether Lewis is sitting in P1 or P20, he stays incredibly composed and level-headed. He doesn't crack under pressure or make those unforced errors. I guess Seb is only like that this season when the track is dry.🙄And once he starts from P1—well, everything just falls apart, I guess.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread—in the last 28 races since Canada in 2017, you've already snapped a front wing on the opening lap in five of them. 🤦 I guess Lewis Hamilton doesn't really stand a chance at pulling that off.

Thomas Davis98 said:One second. ☕

Not too long ago, this guy was dead serious in his long-winded posts, claiming Sebastian Vettel won two of his four titles in a slower car.
Take that first one from the '10 season—it wasn't even in a second-best car, it was actually third.

Just assume that one-second gap will keep growing, especially as we head toward the end of the season. 😉