Allow vCard download - Reddit

hollowtrucker77
@Apophis
@Vojky

I think you might have hit "send" a little too early there. I'm sitting here waiting for the rest of your thought, but all I've got is a single letter. If you were trying to make a profound point with just an "i," then you've definitely outsmarted me, but otherwise, feel free to finish what you were saying whenever you're ready.

Paul Green31

With a particular emphasis on... Vojky's post:

Vojky said:I honestly don't have anything else to add to this. 🙂

An email address can be considered personal information, and since we don't exactly have a formal user identification system in place—unlike back in the old BBS days when a sysop would at least recognize a regular's handle for authorization—there's no real way for us to verify if "Person X" actually intended to make their email public. To play it safe, let's just not post email addresses here. Websites, blogs, and similar platforms are inherently public, and the same goes for Skype or ICQ handles; you can find those easily enough just by searching through the services.

The only exception would be something like: "Just shoot that company an email." complaints@example.com"...but even then, it’s not like they're actually sending it to a specific address or anything." example@example.com.

If you aren't feeling it, you don't have to post on this Reddit. Honestly, most other places probably wouldn't want you there either, since the rules are pretty much the same everywhere else.

Now just head over to your options menu, specifically the section labeled...Open the options menu":



Then everyone should head over to their own profile and check out the very last section:Contact information":



Hold on, hold on, wait a second—is that actually a "Download vCard" link? That's an uber-Bingo right there. Well, since you're clearly interested, feel free to grab my virtual business card— Allow vCard download.

"If you feel like being generous, you can check the box to let other users download a vCard that includes your email address and username.".

Look, folks, it’s just vBulletin version 3.8.4 (the American version), and honestly, every single user on this forum has that specific option available to them. Free elections.And once again, I’m going to put a special emphasis on Vojky's sentence:

"The only real exception to the rule would be something like: "Just shoot that company an email." example@example.com...but even then, it’s not like you’re actually getting a specific address or anything. example@example.com."

So, basically, in that locked thread, they’re making this absolute, categorical claim that no form of email address is allowed at all—for instance: veseli_medo_forum@gmail.comHonestly, as well as all those different variations of user handles, that’s just flat-out wrong. You are completely mistaken—and yeah, even if we're being polite about it, Vojky and the rest of the guys at the firm: "The only exceptions would be email addresses like: 'Contact that company via email...'" example@example.comWell, that's just great—the whole thing is completely debunked by that ridiculous vBulletin "Allow vCard download" option.

I have just one request, and I’m asking this of everyone—the admins, the supermods, and the regular mods (look, I’m on your side here), but especially the users. Honestly, if we don't address this, the whole forum is headed straight for a cliff, and I'm firmly standing with the staff on this one. Can we all just take a collective breath and chill out for a second, for God's sake?. 🙂

p.s.

Paul Green31

You might want to go ahead and offer a formal apology to the folks on Reddit, since they’re basically the loudest crowd out there. 🙂

I don't want to start a whole new thread here, but could someone please investigate what else, besides the ICQ icon, is causing this forum to leak usernames and email addresses to third parties without user consent? Is there any way to disable all these data-sharing features at once?

Choosing whether or not to download a vCard is one thing, but this was anything but a choice, and frankly, I’m far from thrilled about it. I clicked the icon, and suddenly my email was being forwarded to people who will almost certainly start flooding my inbox with spam.

If you check out any banned users, you'll notice the "Contact Information" card isn't even offered 🤷

I just realized (looking at my own vCard, obviously I don't use my actual address), that the "Allow vCard download" section actually contains users' real email addresses—specifically the ones they used when they first signed up for Reddit, unless they went in and changed them later. To be clear, it’s entirely up to each individual user on Reddit whether they want to toggle the ability to download their vCard in their user settings (at least, based on what other users can see, it seems limited to registered members)
.
🙂In other words, this "Allow vCard download" option on Reddit (which uses vBulletin) pretty much proves that everything the admins and supermods claimed in that locked thread was wrong; the choice belongs strictly to the users.

I get why vBulletin leaves this feature in the hands of the users, though—not everyone hanging out on Reddit wants to stay anonymous, especially if you're representing a company or using a sponsored handle.
Anyway, you might want to check your settings right away to see if that option is 😁disabled
. Unless, of course, you actually want people to have it, or you're using some obscure email address (definitely don't use Gmail; maybe try Hushmail if you must).
🙂Cheers!

p.s. Vojky, just for you:

vCard spec: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2426.txt

Jesse Sanchez4 said:Using a vCard is optional, but mine certainly wasn't by choice, and I'm not exactly thrilled about it. I clicked the icon, and now my email has been sent to a bunch of people who will undoubtedly start spamming me.

That’s exactly the point—using a vCard is a free choice for users. Anyone who wants to share their email is more than welcome to do so, and the "Allow vCard download" option makes it possible. The platform handling these files is just Reddit (via vBulletin).

As for everything else, you should either a) turn off every setting possible in your profile, or b) change your email address. 🤷

If I remember correctly, that thing is disabled by default. Looking at my settings, it's definitely off, and I'm pretty damn sure I didn't flip the switch myself 🤷

Which basically means you have to manually enable it if you actually want it to work 🤔

Christian Taylor3 said:Look, there was this locked thread where people were flat-out claiming that no kind of email address is allowed—you know, like veseli_medo_forum@gmail.com or any variation of a user's nickname. Well, that’s just plain wrong. You are absolutely mistaken. Even if we listen to the more reasonable folks like Vojky or the corporate types saying, "The only exception is an email like complaints@example.com," the vBulletin "Allow vCard download" option completely debunks that argument.

It's not about putting them in posts; it's about having the option available if a user actually wants it. It isn't even displayed on a profile that everyone can see—it's specifically handled this way.

Otherwise, this whole feature and the vCard would be totally useless, because you could just type your email in a post or send a DM. The whole reason this exists is that an email address shouldn't be something you wave around publicly. Choosing to let someone else see it is a personal decision, and that's exactly why the option is there.

If we circle back to the beginning of this whole situation regarding banned users—specifically that one user who (let's just assume for the sake of argument) left their email address in a post on the newsfeed before it was scrubbed—it’s clear the admin did exactly what they were supposed to do. First off, once someone is banned, their ability to communicate on the site is essentially cut off, leaving them with nothing but that dedicated "banned users" corner. Honestly, that is the extent of what any moderator can realistically do for a user in that position. They aren't allowed to jump into other threads, they can't engage in private messaging, and at the end of the day, they're effectively sidelined. There’s no contact information listed. If we actually had a profile feature that included a vCard option—assuming the user opted in, of course—I’d like to reiterate my point once more: even then, the email address wouldn't just be sitting there out in the open. It would simply be a matter of clicking "download vCard" and that would be that. Simple as that.

Brenda Cook4 said:But I’m not talking about putting it in posts—I mean in the settings, if users actually want that. It wouldn't even be on the profile itself where any random user can see it, but rather handled this specific way.

One way or another, you could just drop a link to your profile (right in a post, for all I care) and say, "Hey, check my contact info on my profile; my email is in the vCard, catch you later." 🙂

Otherwise, all of this and the whole vCard thing would just be a pointless feature, since you could always just type it out in a post or your signature. The reason this exists is because an email address isn't something meant for public display, so choosing to let someone else see it is entirely up to the individual.

I’ll say it again: that "Allow vCard download" option is there specifically so users can decide whether they want to broadcast their email or personal details to the world. It's purely their call. You have a separate "download vCard" link under the contact info section of your profile, which is what you mentioned earlier in this thread. Now, whether that same link is allowed to be included within actual posts is one question, but whether it can be tucked away in a signature is another. Personally, I think it should be fine, given that it's already accessible on the user's profile anyway. If the answer is "no," then we're back to: "Check my profile for my contact info, my email is in the vCard, talk soon."

If we loop back to the start of this discussion regarding that banned user—who, assuming we're right, left her email in a post on the main board before it was deleted—it seems the admin did the right thing. Once someone is banned, their ability to communicate on the site is restricted to the banned users' corner, which is pretty much all a user in that position can do. They can't post on other sub-forums, they can't message people, and finally, there's no contact information available on their profile. Even if they had enabled the vCard option, the email address itself doesn't just pop up; you'd still have to click and download it, and that's it.

You're absolutely right about that banned user, but this whole topic applies to everyone and the ability (or lack thereof) to share personal data, including email addresses. The "Allow vCard download" option is exactly what makes that possible.

Christian Taylor3 said:One way or another, you just need to drop a link to your profile right in your post and say: "Check my profile/contact info—my email is in my vCard, catch you later." 🙂

I’ll say it again: that specific "Allow vCard download" setting is what lets users decide whether to make their email or personal details public. It’s entirely up to them. In your profile under "contact information," there’s already a separate link to "download vCard," which you can just include in your very first post here. Now, whether it's okay to include that exact same link (to your vCard) directly within a post is one thing, but is it okay to stick it in a signature? Personally, I think it should be fine, since that info is already out there on any user's profile anyway. If the answer is "no," then we fall back to: "Check my profile/contact info—my email is in my vCard, catch you later."

In reality, people aren't really broadcasting themselves publicly in the sense of waving an email address around in a post or a signature. You have to be a registered member of the forum, and the user specifically has to enable the option to allow their vCard download before anyone can even get to their email.

You are absolutely spot on regarding that banned user. Regardless, this whole discussion applies to all users and the ability (or lack thereof) to share personal data, including email addresses. The "Allow vCard download" option is what makes that possible.

As I mentioned before, it's the user's choice, and the site's code allows for the 'sharing' of personal info like an email, but strictly through this method. Like I said earlier, it's clear there is a way to find an email, but that way isn't by typing the address directly into a post. Typing it out is where the real identification issue lies. This way, at least we know the address is tied to a specific username, and someone who is just browsing the forum without being logged in won't be able to scrape that data. I honestly think this is a pretty solid way for the forum to protect everyone's privacy.

@Brenda Cook4

We’re just spinning our wheels here at this point, but thanks anyway for the input. 🙂

Looking back at the very first post on this thread:

Christian Taylor3 said:That's an uber-Bingo! Please, help yourself to my virtual business card - download vCard.

"You may choose to allow other users to download a vCard containing your email address and username".

In the actual post, is it allowed or not? In the signature, is it allowed or not? (Given that "Please, help yourself to my virtual business card" line). Like I mentioned before, that link lives within the user profile/contact info section (which is entirely up to the individual). By the way, I've been pulling a direct link to my email in my signature since 2009 (not my-own-email, mind you, just one based on my handle), and nobody ever bothered to warn me about it—I only decided to change things yesterday because that three-layered sausage of a signature was getting tedious, so I just trimmed it down to my Twitter.

I think this is actually a pretty solid way for the forum to protect personal data.

Ultimately, the responsibility doesn't lie with Reddit; it lies strictly with the users.

Christian Taylor3 said:@Brenda Cook4

We're just running in circles here, but thanks anyway for the input. 🙂

Looking back at the very first post in this thread:

In a standard post, is it allowed or not? In a signature, is it allowed or not? ("Please feel free to use my virtual business card"). Like I mentioned before, that link lives in the user profile/contact info section (which is entirely up to the individual). By the way, ever since 2009, I’ve been pulling a direct link to my email in my signature—not my-own-personal-email, just one based on my handle—and nobody ever gave me a hard time about it. Yesterday, I finally got tired of that long, rambling three-line signature and just trimmed it down to my Twitter.

It seems pretty obvious what the forum's script is designed to do: prevent email addresses from being posted out in the open, instead routing them indirectly through a download click. Just because there might be a occasional lapse where someone doesn't follow those rules doesn't mean we should stop enforcing them... which is why I think Persephone's question was actually quite helpful; we all learned something new 🙂 . To me, the situation is fairly clear-cut, isn't it?

Responsibility doesn't lie with the forum; it lies solely with the users.

...but if it's permitted (even if it bypasses the script) within posts or signatures, then the responsibility shifts back to the forum...

unless someone actually screws up, then suddenly everyone on the forum thinks they're responsible
I think Brenda Cook4 hit the nail on the head with her point: if you’re dying to hand out your private email address to one specific person, nobody is standing in your way and stopping you from doing it.
Sure, go ahead and post your photo or your bank account number too, if that's your thing...
But there is a massive difference between that and making your phone number, email, or home address public for the whole world to see.
A forum just can't really allow for that kind of selective privacy where you get to decide that saying "Person X is an idiot and will mess this up" is okay, while "Person Y is smart and knows what they're doing" is also fine.

Brenda Cook4 said:Let’s go back to the beginning of this whole mess regarding banned users. If we assume—just for the sake of argument—that she left her actual email address in a post on the bulletin board before it got scrubbed, then the admin did exactly what he was supposed to do. First off, once someone is banned, their ability to communicate on the forum is cut off, leaving them with nothing but the "banned users" corner. Honestly, what else is a moderator supposed to do? You can't let them haunt other threads, you can't let them DM people, and you certainly can't let them keep dragging things out. It's just how it works. There’s zero contact info here. Nothing. Seriously? Imagine if there was actually a profile feature where you could enable a vCard download. I’ll say it one more time just to be crystal clear: even then, the email address wouldn't just be sitting there for everyone to see. It would just be a simple click to download the file, and that's it. Simple enough, right?

Hmm...
Didn't I say that somewhere?

The only thing this forum actually cares about is making sure some user's email address doesn't end up floating around inside the forum's body tags.

What Mr. Trkelja is rambling about is something every single forum has, in one form or another: the option to make your email address public. Is that really news?

But look, that’s all covered under electronic signature laws anyway. When you register on a forum using a specific email address, they send an activation link straight to your inbox. Once you click that link, you're basically proving you actually own the account and have full access to that email. It's pretty straightforward, isn't it?

By letting other users see it, you're basically taking full responsibility for whatever mess follows. You want to play that game? Fine. But don't come crying to us when things go sideways.

Just a heads-up: the email address inside the vCard is the exact one used to log into the forum. Users can't change it, and they can't edit the vCard themselves. So, by letting other users download their vCard, we’re fully compliant with US electronic signature laws and data privacy regulations. Basically, if someone's info gets out there, the legal responsibility falls squarely on the user, not the forum. The liability is covered by an electronic signature. At the end of the day, the user made the choice to waive their privacy and make their email public—they just chose to do it via a downloadable file rather than plain text. Why do it that way? Simple: to protect them from those damn bots that scrape email addresses to build spam databases. You know the drill—one minute you're fine, the next you're being buried under a mountain of spam for penis enlargement creams and psychic readings.

So, this thread of yours doesn't prove anything. All it really shows is that the vBulletin developers know exactly what's broken and they've already cooked up scripts just to bypass the issues.

You can't just drop email addresses in posts anymore. It’s all because of those strict federal electronic signature laws and privacy regulations. Since the site owner is technically the publisher and holds the bag if anything goes wrong, they're legally obligated to scrub them. Isn't that just how it works? They have to clean it up to stay on the right side of the law.

If you’re still struggling to wrap your head around this, I have a simple suggestion: file a formal inquiry with the FTC or reach out to any privacy advocacy group or the Attorney General's office. Once they get back to you, post the response here. Let's see exactly who needs to apologize and why. 😉

@Brenda Cook4
@hollowtrucker77

Thanks for the replies.

So, I guess I could just mention it in my posts, provided I don't actually reveal my email address directly—something like, "Just head over to my profile or contact info; you can grab my email from my vCard, talk soon."

If I'm understanding this correctly, I can't do a) link directly to a vCard in a post, or b) put a link to a vCard in my signature. Is that right?

Honestly, it might be best if the sysadmin just disabled that option for everyone entirely; nobody really uses it on Reddit anyway, and clearly even the staff weren't aware of it. 😁

@Paul Green31

Let's try to keep things civil, shall we? First step is learning how to actually communicate on a forum. 🙂

edit:

Just a heads-up, the email address inside the vCard is the same one used to log into the forum, and users don't have any way to change or edit their vCard.

That's actually not true; I literally changed my email address just yesterday, and it updated in the vCard as well.

Paul Green31 said:Posting email addresses in threads is strictly prohibited because it violates federal privacy laws and electronic signature regulations. Since the forum acts as the publisher of this content and carries legal liability for everything posted, they are clearly obligated to scrub those details to stay compliant with the law.

And what about the part where the forum hands my email address over to some third party without ever asking for my permission first?

Christian Taylor3 said:@Brenda Cook4/">@@Brenda Cook4
@hollowtrucker77/">@@hollowtrucker77

Thanks for all the input.

So, I guess mentioning it within a post works, as long as I don't actually reveal my email address: "Just click my profile/contact info, you can grab my email via the vCard, catch you later."

But essentially, I can't do a) link directly to the vCard in a post, or b) link to the vCard in a signature. Did I get that right?

It would actually be ideal if we could just ask the system admin to disable this option for everyone entirely—I mean, nobody really uses it here anyway, and even you guys weren't aware it existed. 😁

Thanks too, Christian Taylor3.

It’s not meant to be inside posts or signatures, but rather in the user profile itself (which you captured perfectly in that screenshot). Once someone activates their digital business card, it shows up as a download option under their 'contact information' section.

* @Paul Green31/">@@Paul Green31, I'm with you on that.

Just so I can set the record straight on one little detail regarding Vojky.

Look, business email addresses aren't—and never will be—considered private data, no matter how they're formatted. But hey, I'll give you this: I agree we should probably stick to general info here on the forum. Even if an address like manager@exxonmobil.com isn't actually private.

Jesse Sanchez4 said:And what about that part where the forum hands my email address over to a third party without even asking me first?

That’s totally actionable. If you can actually prove they did it, you’ve got a solid case for damages.

Locate someone with an ICQ icon over on the left and give it a click. The forum will immediately push your username and email address straight to the ICQ server. I couldn't care less about any potential lawsuits, but honestly, it would be quite reasonable if there were some way to disable this feature entirely.

Christian Taylor3 said:That’s not true. I just updated my email address yesterday, and it updated in my vCard too.

Sure, you can change it that way, but there’s a catch. You might want to actually read the laws regarding electronic signatures.

When you switched over to that new email, didn't you get a confirmation from the forum that you had to click just to make the change stick?

Well, there it is. You basically just digitally signed off on your profile—and by extension, your vCard.

Because of those electronic signature laws, they sent you that verification link. That means all the legal boxes were checked to "edit" the email in the vCard, and there's now official proof that the email belongs to you.