Please don't edit posts...

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#1 · Dec 17, 2010

Since the mod didn't hit me back on my PM—where I basically said if he wasn't down to debate here instead, we could just move it—I guess he's cool with keeping it here.

So, yeah, a mod edited one of my posts.

I get they have the right to, totally follows the rules and all. But I also know this forum "sees" everything when it's soft deleted, but you can't see what was in an edited post.

And since this whole thread is already a mess and the mod is throwing out useless ad hominem attacks like:

Ryan Vaughn7 said:That makes zero sense to me, I'm just speaking for myself. I'm not playing any kind of prophet or Messiah, and I'm definitely not writing on behalf of the people. Other people on this thread do that. So your comment is just pointless and missed the mark.

So, because mods might mess up sometimes (I mean, they're human and make subjective calls too, right?), I'm asking that content shouldn't be edited, but posts should just be soft deleted so admins can check them if needed.

I know they can edit, but it just feels shady to me.

Also, quick question: do I need to go through all my old posts to see if anything else was changed, or can I just assume my other stuff hasn't been messed with? 🙂

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#2 · Dec 17, 2010

Also, the posts in this thread are driving me crazy. Especially since last night. I need a mod to explain why my post was nuked—and one from Sauron too—while all these trollish, useless counter-arguments are still hanging around? They don't even add anything to what I think is a solid debate.

I’m asking the admins to check my posts from yesterday that got deleted. I want them to see if they actually broke any rules or if this is just some moderator being biased because, I don't know, maybe this whole topic just bugs them.

It’s basically what my fellow user Sprague would call "thread butchering," and honestly, it's a mess. There's zero reason for it, and it just hurts the forum. When people put effort into making actual, on-topic posts that follow the rules, and then they get wiped, it just kills the motivation to write. It makes it look like the mods are rewarding trolls while punishing anyone actually trying to contribute something meaningful.

Ryan Vaughn7 Active Member

154 messages
joined Jul 2009

#3 · Dec 17, 2010

We’ve been clearing out posts that are completely off-topic or just straight-up trolling. If a post is only partially problematic, we usually just edit it down so the decent parts actually stay up.
But look, I get it. You guys should have a say in this, so from here on out, I'll respect your wish and leave your posts exactly as they are—no deleting, no editing.

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#4 · Dec 17, 2010

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Posts that are totally off-topic or just straight-up trolling get nuked. If they're only partially bad, we just edit them so the okay parts stay.
Whatever, you guys can choose how you want things handled, so I guess I'll respect your wish and stop editing or deleting your stuff from now on.

I mean, if your memory is any good, how many of my posts have actually been edited?

Since I can't see what's been deleted, and since having admins step in is usually a good thing, I'd like to know if deleted posts are being edited first and how the admin team plans to handle this issue.

Because honestly, a moderator could just edit a post before deleting it to make it look clean, and then the admin reviewing everything is just seeing a "sanitized" version of reality instead of what actually happened.
🙂

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#5 · Dec 17, 2010

Ryan Vaughn7 said:People who only partially edit their messages end up leaving behind that one "good" part of the post, which defeats the whole purpose.

Honestly, nothing good ever comes from editing a post.

I really think we should just ban post editing across all our US forums—at least, unless it’s for purely technical stuff, like fixing a broken quote, merging a couple of posts together, or some other minor housekeeping task.

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#6 · Dec 17, 2010

Also, why’d they delete my post (and the one from Sauron) about how the poet Sutter could be a good fit for the Oak movement?
That post wasn't even off-topic, honestly. It was useful because it talked about whether people actually have the willpower to back a movement like this.

I mean, sure, it was just my subjective take, but I don't think it was harmful.

I guess we should be allowed to talk about people who might join the Oak movement, right? Like, why can't we show the public who they are? That's all I did—just linked a video of Sutter reciting his patriotic poetry.

Which forum rule says that's banned or off-topic? Especially since the moderators were just in here this morning starting a whole debate about voter rolls and dead people on them, which stayed on topic and was actually productive.

hollowtrucker77 Regular

681 messages
joined Nov 2007

#7 · Dec 17, 2010

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Look, we just wipe out posts that are completely off-topic or straight-up trolling. If a post is only partially messy, we'll just trim the fat so the useful stuff stays intact.
But hey, if you want to play it that way, fine—you're a grown adult, so I'll respect your wish to leave your posts untouched from here on out.

Ryan Vaughn7 and the rest of the mod team: listen, can we all just agree not to touch anyone's posts unless they're leaking private info or posting something actually dangerous or harmful?
If a post contains something inappropriate, it gets deleted, period, but it’s really on the person writing it to make sure they don't post garbage in the first place.
Even if you mean well, micromanaging people's edits just isn't good practice.

Jose White18 Member

45 messages
joined Dec 2010

#8 · Dec 17, 2010

dustypuma5 said:The thing is, a moderator could technically edit a post before deleting it to clean things up. That way, when the admin reviews everything, they aren't seeing what actually happened, just a polished version of events.
🙂

:paranoid: :Possible:

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#9 · Dec 17, 2010

Jose White18 said::težaparanoja: :Potencijalna:

I never said it *was* happening, just that it could.
Opportunity makes a thief, I guess. 🙂

Don't have vBulletin installed on my end, so maybe a question for the admins...

Is there any way to set it up so regular users can see their own deleted posts, alongside mods and admins? Might stop this whole thing from being an issue.

Also, still waiting on answers to those other questions I asked earlier. 🙂

hollowtrucker77 Regular

681 messages
joined Nov 2007

#10 · Dec 17, 2010

From what I gather, that’s just not how it works, since permissions are assigned based on specific user groups

northerntiger Member

39 messages
joined Jan 2010

#11 · Dec 17, 2010

Jose White18 said::težaparanoja: :Potencijalna:

Exactly. Jebatgaled, if we start writing "War and Peace" in every single thread... 😵
Seriously mods, stop taking us users so seriously. We aren't that important. This forum should be about swapping ideas, not trying to change the world or promoting some "new" political Messiah. If we’re being real, that thread about Oak went way past a normal discussion and turned into straight-up political marketing—and isn't that stuff usually paid for by the site owners? 🤔

Also, you guys need to edit posts, especially when the titles are total messes. Like that one in the Jobs and Career section that's been sitting there for days with all the typos asking about bank salaries.

Or am I wrong, can't you "edit" because bad grammar is considered the author's property? 😁

Nicholas King Regular

716 messages
joined Jan 2023

#12 · Dec 17, 2010

northerntiger said:You really ought to be editing things—especially those illiterate headlines, like the one sitting on the Career and Jobs board for days now, asking about how much banks are crying over losses.

Look, an illiterate headline—or whatever else qualifies as poorly written—isn't the kind of "editing" Ryan Vaughn7 is talking about. I mean, the second a moderator starts playing judge on what constitutes "good" content versus other parts of a post, things get... well, awkward.

At the end of the day, it’s a hell of a lot less work to just scrap the entire post altogether. 🙂

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#13 · Dec 17, 2010

northerntiger said:Right. Jebatgaled, we shouldn't be out here writing "War and Peace" in every single thread. 😵
Seriously mods, stop acting like you can just mess with us users who actually care about this place. This forum should be for sharing opinions, not for trying to change the world or pushing some "new" political Messiah. I mean, if we're being real, that whole Oak thread went way past a normal discussion and turned into straight-up political marketing—and isn't that stuff basically paid for by the site owners? 🤔

And you guys need to edit things, especially those illiterate titles, like the one sitting in the Career section for days asking how much banks are paying?

Or are you not allowed to "edit" because being illiterate is considered the author's property? 😁

People have already left this thread (and the whole forum because of it) due to how the mods act, and these were really good members.

Any thread about a party trying to run for office is just political marketing. 😉

Since I was the one who made the most political marketing posts on that thread, and since I'm seeing these complaints more often now, I guess I’m thinking about leaving this forum too.

Despite my hopes that this could be a place with at least a little democracy (as much as a private forum allows), it's pretty clear there are things happening behind the scenes that are totally unfair and go against everything I stand for.

Since this forum exists thanks to us members and its value comes from different people contributing, I think it might be better to just stop writing under these conditions. By posting high-quality stuff, I'm basically just helping a fundamentally broken structure.
That's a hard pill to swallow, I guess.

So, maybe just hold onto your hate, because I see the situation clearly enough without needing you to jump in, and I know how this ends.

What's being ruined here is the basic right of great members to speak up, while instead, they promote rudeness, arrogance, and all the worst parts of internet culture, like trolling and flame wars...
The actual useful text gets deleted, but the hateful posts stay up just so some right-winger can see them, react aggressively, and then go off the rails.

Your negative selection is what brought politics to where it is now—having "professionals" who find ways to bypass every rule to judge and troll others without technically breaking anything. I warned about this before, but sometimes you have to read between the lines of a "screw you" when it's not even said out loud.

So, I think I'm gonna take a break from the politics section. I don't feel like wasting kilobytes explaining this stuff; I'd rather write posts that actually mean something.

P.S. I know you're probably seething over this post, but not every win is a win, and not every loss is a loss. 😉
But I guess you'll never get that, will you...

northerntiger Member

39 messages
joined Jan 2010

#14 · Dec 17, 2010

Total drama queen move. 🙂

northerntiger Member

39 messages
joined Jan 2010

#15 · Dec 17, 2010

Nicholas King said:An illiterate headline (or whatever else you want to call it) isn't the kind of editing Ryan Vaughn7 is talking about. Once a moderator starts playing judge on what parts of a post are "good" versus what's just filler, things get messy fast.

At the end of the day, it’s way easier to just scrap the whole post. 🙂

Are you acting as the mods' spokesperson now? Or just trying to stick your nose in everyone's business?

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#16 · Dec 17, 2010

northerntiger said:Total drama queen move. 🙂

Besides all that drama queen stuff—trolling, flaming, hating, being petty, or just dragging people—there’s actually this thing called having principles and taking responsibility for yourself and others...

But I guess you wouldn't get that. 😉

Sarah Wilson95 Regular

267 messages
joined Sep 2006

#17 · Dec 17, 2010

northerntiger said:You really ought to be editing these, especially those poorly written headlines,

Honestly, on this news site, you constantly see headlines starting with informal slang or broken grammar; I didn't want to be lazy, so I actually tried twice to explain to the moderators that certain phrasing specifically refers to eating a meal, but they fixed one and left the other for the amusement of the massive audience that tends to capitalize every single word regardless of grammar rules. 🤷 😁

dustypuma5 said:Since I’m holding onto the hope that this remains a place with at least a minimal sense of democracy (as much as a private forum can reasonably allow))

The term "private" simply describes the publisher's ownership structure and has absolutely nothing to do with being hosted on a US domain, which, quite clearly, means it must comply with all the legal regulations of this specific administrative and political jurisdiction.
So, there isn't actually a problem with democracy here; if you were under the impression that "private" meant "my own little set of rules just for me," then you were either trying to provoke someone blindly or you simply wrote down YOUR OWN OPINION on how you imagine things would work if you had the chance. 😳😁

northerntiger Member

39 messages
joined Jan 2010

#18 · Dec 17, 2010

Seriously man, how can you not feel bad about insulting people just because they disagree with you? Not once have I insulted you in my posts. I’m just joking around and keeping things light, while you’re over here throwing heavy insults ranging from hate to calling me immoral and stupid for supposedly being unable to grasp deep thoughts. 🙄

Based on what you write, you're a huge fan of Gotovac, yet you're acting incredibly narrow-minded. You act like only you and your little circle have the right to love America, and everyone else is just some "traitor" or bad person. That goes completely against everything Vlada Gotovac stood for and his entire legacy.

I get why Oak caught your eye—our political scene is pretty messy right now. But I don't think you're dumb or a traitor. You might just be a bit misled, or maybe just too young to see through someone's true intentions. Not everything that glitters is gold.

dustypuma5 Active MemberOP

111 messages
joined Apr 2013

#19 · Dec 17, 2010

Sarah Wilson95 said:private It just shows who owns the publisher. It’s got zero to do with that .US domain or whatever, and obviously, they still have to follow all the laws in this jurisdiction.
So, democracy's totally fine here, I guess. If you actually thought "private" meant "my own little rules just for me and my buddies," then maybe you were just looking for a fight... or you just blindly typed out your own weird take on how things work. Just a thought. 😳😁

I don't have some hidden agenda or whatever. The post is pretty straightforward as it stands. I'm not exactly begging anyone to let me stay on Foumas either... though maybe that'll be my next post. 🙄I'm not even looking for rules for myself. I just want what I asked for in the thread.

Man, you just get tired of it all. It's exhausting. I don't even feel like writing these massive essays when I don't even know if I'm gonna make it through the day, let alone if someone's just gonna go in and edit my posts three days from now anyway. I guess.

So I finally get the message. Apparently, admin thinks turning a thread into a blog post is a big no-no, and they're saying these long-ass posts are basically "War and Peace," so they’ll just be getting deleted or cut down. I guess.

I guess it’s just more of that same old political nonsense they've been spinning for the last decade... that's pretty much it.

If I can't even post half-assed thoughts or reply to them without being judged, then what's the point? I guess if I can't just be myself, I'm not playing by anyone's rules.

It’s just that simple, I guess.

Why would I even bother fighting the forum mods just to try and build some kind of actual quality culture or real political debate? Seems kinda pointless, I guess.

I guess this forum actually needs high-quality users more than those people need it. Maybe. 😉

northerntiger Member

39 messages
joined Jan 2010

#20 · Dec 17, 2010

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention—you could stand to be a little more humble. Do you honestly believe you’re the only high-quality contributor on this site? Like you're some kind of hero saving the forum from irrelevance? You really think we’d all fall apart if you stopped posting?

Give me a break. Talk about a total lack of self-awareness.

Every single moderator here is a top-tier user. Meanwhile, your little fan club is mostly just a bunch of people who either can't hold a decent conversation or simply refuse to, preferring to just stir up drama instead.

Please don't edit posts...

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