2010 British GP - Silverstone (July 11)

So why didn't the FIA penalize Kubica instead of Alonso? Global conspiracy or just a Masonic plot? 🤔

p.s. http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/23218.html

I can't be bothered to read all this 😁

so what's the verdict 🤔

hollowgull5 said:I don't really feel like reading all of this😁

so what did you guys conclude? 🤔

wow! A single charming, witty, and surprisingly non-bitter post from Joe😲 👋 😁

What happened to you, hollowgull5?! 😲 Are you getting soft😲 😬

man, you guys are seriously getting on my last nerve

you’re out here defending this total loser even though everyone knows he completely blew it
but you just keep doubling down like it's your job

it's honestly pathetic, acting like those Schumacher fanatics back in the day👎 🤮

Michael Lee4 said:Wrong... the FIA actually notified Ferrari three times to have Alonso give the position back without a penalty—then, after the third time, they slapped him with one right when the SC happened... basically, who cares

What’s the deal with Mass? What are you disappointed about? Did Alonso hit him, causing that puncture and the immediate pit stop on the second lap?

If they really did notify them, then I guess it doesn't matter.
As for Mass, I'm just generally underwhelmed by his results this season.

hollowgull5 said:👎 🤮

Awwww, look who decided to show up. 😍😍😍

😁

Is he seriously acting like such a crybaby? (I guess Webber might actually be closing in on that title soon, though.) I mean, they probably told him to just hang tight and wait to reclaim his spot while they had some talks with Charlie... right up until it was way too late. 🤣 🙂

whatever
he's always right 🙄

you're being way too soft on him, honestly... like you actually think he’s got some massive corporate giant backing him up enough to just get away with whatever he wants 😉

Mark Ruiz8 said:If they actually got a heads-up, then who cares.
As for Massa, I'm pretty disappointed with his performance this season in general.

It wasn't "them" notifying them. At least according to what's being said, Charlie W. told him it’d be better to just let him through so the stewards wouldn't even bother looking at the "incident."

Since the stewards clearly did look at it, they handed down a decision that screwed over Alonso.
Does anyone know where I can find the official report? Which specific rule did they use to penalize Alonso?
And is it possible the stewards were feeling the pressure from Charlie W.?
Also, why was it ignored that Kubica and Alonso were neck-and-neck in that corner? Pushing Alonso off the track didn't help him; it just hurt him.
What exactly did he gain from it? Kubica had practically already been overtaken.

Total robbery by Charlie W.! 👎

Roger Wright94 said:It wasn't that "they" notified him; rather, from what I understand, Charlie W. suggested it might be better to just let him go so the stewards wouldn't even have to look at the "incident."

Since the stewards clearly did investigate the situation, they ended up making a call that went right against Alonso.
I'm wondering, is there anywhere we can actually see or read the official ruling? Which specific rule was used to penalize Alonso?
And is it even possible that the stewards were being influenced or pressured by Charlie W.?
Also, why was the fact that Kubica and Alonso were side-by-side in that corner ignored? Being forced off the track was purely detrimental to Alonso, not helpful.
What exactly did he gain from that? Kubica had practically already been overtaken.

Total robbery by Charlie W.! 👎

FIA Sporting Regulations, Article 16

But there is something quite interesting tucked away in there:

Unless the race director feels it is absolutely certain that a driver breached any of the aforementioned rules, any incidents involving multiple cars will typically be investigated following the race.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, if Charlie decides it isn't crystal clear whether a driver broke a rule (and there was no blatant cutting of a chicane or gaining an unfair advantage...), then the incident should be dealt with after the race is over.

It seems a bit odd to me, though, because we rarely see incidents pushed to a post-race investigation. Usually, that only happens when there's a massive pile-up involving several cars and they need telemetry and all sorts of data to feel confident in their decision.

In this case, it looks like a straight-up mistake by Ferrari. If they had just told Charlie immediately that they felt the move was legitimate—that Kubica essentially pushed Alonso off while they were running parallel—maybe Charlie would have stayed quiet after the initial warning and waited for a post-race review instead.

Roger Wright94 said:What exactly did Schumacher do when he overtook Vettel?

What Webber didn't do in 🤣Turkey🤣 🤣

Bottom line: look, you can be a jerk if you want, but it's not a crime.

And apparently, it's not even punishable.

Let people say what they want.

McLaren has been in this exact spot before—getting the green light from Charlie that everything was fine and the track procedures were solid, only to be slapped with penalties right after the race ended.

Maybe Charlie's word wasn't official at first, but once Renault filed their protest, the hammer dropped. A 25-second penalty, plain and simple.

Honestly, I think this is just another scandal being used to mask Ferrari's actual struggles—they look completely lost and disorganized. The new exhaust design is a dud, there's zero clarity on whether Domenicalli or Alonso is actually running the show, and Massa surely isn't thrilled about Alonso acting like his boss... all after how much we were counting on them at the start of the season.

mistybear87 said:So, if I’m reading this right, if Charlie decides there isn't enough proof that a driver actually broke the rules—like cutting a chicane or gaining an unfair advantage—the whole thing just gets pushed to a post-race investigation.

In this case, Ferrari really screwed up. If they had just told Charlie straight away that they thought everything was legal—that Kubica essentially shoved Alonso off the track while they were side-by-side—maybe Charlie would have just kept quiet after the first warning and waited for the post-race review.

But no, they told them immediately that it was crystal clear (meaning Alonso was at fault).
Those guys are pros. They think they see everything instantly, whereas it took me watching the replay dozens of times just to be sure of what I saw.
It's pretty obvious they made their call before even doing a thorough, multi-angle review.

Do you honestly believe that a Ferrari intervention (like what we just talked about) would have changed anything?

Roger Wright94 said:They claimed everything was crystal clear to them from the get-go (meaning it was all Alonso's fault).
These guys are veterans, after all. To them, the conclusion seems obvious at first glance, whereas I found myself rewatching the footage dozens of times just to feel confident in my own take.
It’s pretty apparent they had their minds made up before they even finished a thorough review of the situation.

Do you honestly believe that Ferrari's intervention (as mentioned above) would have actually changed anything?

I'm not sure. Honestly, I think they should have acted immediately instead of waiting until the third call. If I were in charge, I would have handed out a stop-and-go penalty right after the second warning rather than just a DT.☕

redheron12 said:It’s just another scandal meant to distract from how bad Ferrari actually is—total chaos and zero organization within the team. The new exhaust design is a joke, nobody knows who's really in charge whether it's Domenicalli or Alonso, and Massa is clearly fed up with Alonso acting like his boss... all this after everything we were promised at the start of the season.

You're exaggerating.
Ferrari is consistently at least third when you look at race pace (especially considering Lewis and Alonso, since Red Bull is always ahead).
On tracks that suit them better, they actually had a shot at the top spot.
The real issue is their qualifying. When you have a clear track ahead of you, you drive a lot faster.

Even at Indianapolis, once they finally had clean air, the Ferrari guys put up some great laps. Just look at the best laps from Indianapolis:

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

Alonso’s best lap is a full second faster than Massa’s, a second and a half faster than Webber! And he's two seconds ahead of Lewis.

Look, let's just be real and admit he's actually right for once instead of constantly picking at him 🙏🙏🙏
...

mistybear87 said:I don't know. Honestly, they should have acted immediately instead of waiting until the third warning. If I were calling the shots, I would’ve handed out a stop-and-go penalty after the second warning rather than just a DT.☕

I'm right there with you on this one.
But that’s the core issue I’ve been bringing up—it breeds doubt. With the timing we saw during the race, even if everything Charlie W. did was technically by the book, I still have every reason to be suspicious.

Roger Wright94 said:I think you're overstating things.
Looking at race pace—especially when you account for Lewis and Alonso—Ferrari consistently sits at best in third place, trailing behind Red Bull.
On tracks that actually suit the car, they've certainly had a shot at the top spot.
The core issue really boils down to qualifying; once they have a clear track ahead of them, their pace picks up significantly.

Even at Indianapolis, once the Ferraris finally had clean air, they were putting up some incredible lap times. Just look at those best laps from Indy:

http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...test_laps.html

Alonso clocked a best lap that was a full second faster than Massa's—and a whopping second and a half ahead of Webber! He was also two seconds clear of Lewis.

Alonso had two pit stops under his belt—meaning he was out on a light car with fresh rubber—so it wouldn't have been surprising if he hadn't posted the fastest lap.

Out of all the big teams, only Ferrari brought a new spec to the table, yet they haven't closed the gap even a little bit.

redheron12 said:Just leave people alone, for crying out loud.

Besides, this is just another scandal being used to mask Ferrari's terrible form—the absolute chaos and lack of organization within the team. The new exhaust design turned out to be a dud, nobody knows who's actually in charge whether it's Domenicali or Alonso, and I'm sure Massa isn't exactly thrilled having Alonso bossing him around... all after everything we expected at the start of the season.

I absolutely agree. Domenicali is nothing more than a bureaucrat who enjoyed his golden years while the team was still running on autopilot thanks to the principles left behind by Todt and Brawn. Čobi doesn't understand the sport at all, and honestly, when you listen to Alonso's team radio, you get the feeling that everyone in the garage is terrified of him, like they're walking on eggshells to avoid making him lose his temper.

Over in Italy, they're calling for Montezemolo to step down. He's definitely to blame for leaving the team in Domenicali's hands and for serving up that Raikkonen-Kubica combination, but because of those Santander millions, he took on the problematic Alonso (which I guess is finally clear to everyone now) and bowed to the bosses at Fiat, leaving Massa behind.

And what does he have to show for it? A completely useless Massa and a manic Alonso led by an amateur like Domenicali.

There's nothing left to do but thank Domenicali at the end of the season and pray to God that they find a team principal who actually knows how to rein in Alonso's ego and explain to him who the boss is and who the driver is. I don't even know if people like that exist, and if they do, would they ever be willing to join Ferrari? We can only sit here and talk about legends like Berger or Prost—guys from Formula 1 who actually understand how this world works—but I seriously doubt they'd show up without having their hands tied behind their backs.

Alonso cut the chicane—he got the penalty he deserved.

I don't get why people are making this such a big deal. The second I saw what happened, I thought, "Heh, now he’s gonna have to return position." I’ll admit, there was a little bit of malice in that "heh" because I'm not exactly an Alonso fan, but even if I loved the guy, the fact remains: he had to give it back. We all know it, even if some people try to dodge the truth with endless excuses.

If Kubica had gone off track like Alonso did—even by just three centimeters—there probably wouldn't have been a penalty. In that scenario, they both would've been off, so there's no "unfair advantage" to talk about. I put a link above to a similar situation.

There’s no way Alonso could have known what was happening. He can't see the whole mess unfolding; he just sees whatever tiny bit of info shows up in his mirrors. You can't really blame him for that. But you *can* blame Ferrari. As a team, they saw the whole picture. If they got a warning, they shouldn't have had any doubt at all. They should have just said, "Return position," loud and clear. Why they didn't, I honestly have no clue.🤷

Ferrari is just having the worst luck imaginable this season. Between their own massive screw-ups and some seriously bad breaks, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa have basically thrown away a mountain of points over the first nine races, leaving them trailing way behind Lewis Hamilton...

We’re pissed because we know we’re capable of way better results, but honestly, we’re gonna take that frustration and turn it into fuel...

The absolute low point for Ferrari's luck had to be those last two races in Valencia and Indianapolis. During that street circuit race in Valencia, they lost out on solid positions just by actually following the rules—rules that Hamilton broke to get ahead, and then at the British Grand Prix, they tried to play it smart by bypassing certain regulations, which ended up getting Fernando Alonso hit with a brutal penalty...The Ferrari car is clearly getting faster, but the results just aren't showing up on the scoreboard yet.

"There's no point crying about it. I'm expecting a massive fight from the team during the second half of the season. We've dealt with much worse than this in the past, but we absolutely cannot afford to blow chances like we did in the last two races when we actually had a competitive car. We need to fix our qualifying and our starts. I expect everyone to give 100% so we can make up for what we lost," said Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo.

Fernando Alonso was feeling especially optimistic, even going over the radio during the last race to pump up his mechanics...

"Keep your heads up. We're going to win this championship. We're only halfway through the season and there's plenty of time to claw our way back. We have a fantastic car, and we proved that to everyone this weekend by setting the fastest lap," the two-time F1 champion declared with total confidence.

**underlined and bolded**
smart enough☕