China Trip - Shanghai (April 19, 2009)

There is one specific detail that I haven’t seen anyone bother to address yet... and that is the decision regarding the Safety Car start.

I can wrap my head around the initial start, but I honestly cannot fathom why they didn't deploy the Safety Car immediately after just two laps... they practically had them sitting right there at the front.
With the radar imagery showing the sky, it was blindingly obvious that conditions weren't going to improve, so I simply cannot make sense of that entire procession they insisted on running.

The whole point of these protocols is to prevent a massive pile-up at the start, isn't it?

Now, I'm not bringing this up because I think it hurt Fernando Alonso the most, though I do recall when Jergović was talking about the Fuji 2007 race about eighteen months ago—and the weather was even more abysmal then—that he claimed he would have been perfectly fine starting without a Safety Car at all.

By the way... I am quite certain that Renault is positioned right behind Red Bull Racing and Brawn at this exact moment.

It is just an intuitive gut feeling I have.😉

So, what’s the deal with the leader diving into the pits right as the Safety Car pulls out?
I'm talking about that moment when the Safety Car came out for the second time.

Honestly, I’ve got the formula and everything right here

Arthur Doyle70 said:I mean, what am I supposed to get from your take?? 🤷

It feels like no matter what the kid does, you're just gonna chalk it up to luck or whatever... so there's really no point in even debating this...
All I said was that despite having a total junker of a car, he drove way more aggressively than most—which some people love and others don't, just my two cents—and compared to Mass, he actually pulled points out of nowhere (the results prove it). Basically, if you look at the rest of the field, you can count on one hand how many drivers can actually squeeze extra performance out of a slower car. You've got Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Robert Kubica, Sebastian Vettel, and Kimi when he’s actually feeling it...☕

Props to Maria Nelson2 for trying, but this idea that guys can just "do more" in a slower car is basically fairy tales for kids...

Kimi can't do anything about it; he's fast, but he's admitted himself he doesn't have a clue about car setup. He flies when everything is perfect, but he's not great at dialing in the car when it isn't...

Kubica and Vettel aren't even driving bad cars, last year or this year. They're as competitive as their machinery allows them to be, so credit where credit's due.🙏

Hamilton drives aggressive, which is a plus because that works for a lot of drivers, but it doesn't work against Alonso. Honestly, I bet half their duels would end with both of them spinning off into the grass...

Like, take that one time I remember Mass getting totally washed by Hamilton in the rain—can't quite recall the exact track, maybe it was when the track started drying and everyone was being reckless. I think Nelson Piquet ended up second and Mass was first... and Hamilton just cruised past them both without much of a fight. Piquet overshot, and Mass basically just gave up...

Truth is, this guy drove great and had a pretty quick car, but everything just turned out super messy...
Alonso probably knows how to tune a car better than anyone, so in my book, he might be the only one who could squeeze a tiny bit more out of that thing, but even then, it's marginal...

I respect how aggressive Hamilton and Alonso drive, but that's where the mistakes happen. Trying to react perfectly in a split second is nearly impossible...🤷
And honestly, whenever someone goes wheel-to-wheel with Hamilton, I don't know why, but I always expect both of them to end up in the gravel trap...🤷

I don't hate the guy, and I actually like him more than most, I just see it that way...🙏

Brenda Jones7 said:don't even get me 😛
started or I'll get flagged for being off-topic (again 😬): this race turned out way better than expected, even though it started off feeling totally slow and old-school... man, if Kimi Räikkönen had grabbed just one more point, and if Lewis Hamilton hadn't nearly spun off into oblivion at one point 😍

🙂

honestly, it feels like there are more people on this forum rooting against someone than actually having a favorite driver they're pulling for....🙏

I don't really care who loses; if someone's just faster on the track, then shut up and deal with it, simple as that....
but hey, since I've been gone for a minute, does anyone know what's up with Sato? Is he still waiting for his big break in F1 or is he racing somewhere else now? 🙏

Roger Wright94 said:And what about the leader diving into the pits right as the Safety Car comes out?
I'm talking about that specific moment when the Safety Car made its second appearance.

Honestly, that’s just bad luck, if you can even call it that...

1. By that point, they had already built up a decent enough gap, and if my gut is right, they went straight into the pits to get the tires swapped before the pack could bunch up together.
Fernando Alonso was cruising, and let me tell you, on a wet track, he would have been significantly faster than those heavier cars, so I am convinced he would have built up a massive lead within ten or twelve laps, perhaps only dropping behind two Ross Brawn drivers after everyone finished their stops... maybe even staying ahead of Rubens Barrichello, at which point

2. It is quite simply an unpredictable variable... you never truly know when someone is going to crash out on you.

As for the start and how long they were driving under the Safety Car, I really feel like that could have been handled more efficiently; it's ultimately a human decision making those calls...

I am merely stating that the whole thing felt completely nonsensical to me...

Even the folks over at Renault mentioned they only headed to the pits because they were operating under the assumption that the Safety Car would be out there for another ten or fifteen laps; had they known it was coming out in the very next lap, they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the pit stop in the first place...

hollowhawk412 said:That’s just bad luck. If you can even call it that...

By then they’d already built up a decent lead, so I think they jumped straight into the pits for tires before the pack could bunch up. Fernando Alonso made it look easy, and honestly, if it had started raining, he would've absolutely smoked those heavier cars. Believe me, he would've pulled away by 10 or 12 laps.
He'd have had a massive advantage, but he probably would've ended up stuck behind two Ross Brawn cars once everyone hit the pits. Might even have edged out Rubens Barrichello, if we're being optimistic. But when? Who knows.

It’s just one of those unpredictable things... you never know when someone’s gonna come out of nowhere and slam into you.

As for that start and how long they dragged out the Safety Car... honestly, it could’ve been over way sooner. It was just a human error call. Simple as that.

I was just saying it’s pretty pointless...

Renault actually admitted they only pitted because they thought the Safety Car was going to hang around for another 10 or 15 laps. If they’d known it was coming back out the very next lap, they wouldn't have bothered at all.

Look, that's just how it goes. You win some, you lose some. 😬

Remember that absolute genius strategy from Renault? You know, the one where they basically sent Nelson Piquet straight into a wall. 😬 Alonso in the pits.😁And there you have it—Fernando Alonso back on the podium.😁

slynomad32 said:Screw Formula 1. I'm done. I can't believe this is actually happening. It’s a total nightmare. Pure horror.

Why are you even stressing about whether the Ferrari KERS is going to hold up?🤣

stormybadger8 said:Look, you just have to accept it—sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. That’s just how the game works. 😬

Just think back to that absolute stroke of genius from the Renault camp—that whole "Piquet hitting the wall" tactical masterpiece. 😬 Fernando Alonso is heading into the pits.😁And there you have it—Fernando Alonso standing on the podium once again.😁

Honestly, they have nobody to blame but themselves for calling him out that early, though I’m really talking about how things should be handled moving forward. In my view, the Safety Car should serve one specific purpose: cleaning up any mess on the starting grid and then getting off the track as quickly as humanly possible so we can actually get back to the racing.

stormybadger8 said:Why on earth would you worry about whether the KERS on the Ferrari was functioning properly...🤣

😂 you read my mind🤣

hollowhawk412 said:Look, it's totally on them for calling him out too early, but looking ahead... the SC should really just be there to clear up any mess at the start and get off the track ASAP.

The start and the first lap have been making up like 30%—sometimes even more—of the entire race excitement for ages now. What kind of start is that under an SC? Real drivers show their grit when things actually get messy.😬 A start under an SC during a race like this is just plain nonsensical.🤷 If you can't even get a clean, safe start, then you clearly shouldn't be out there driving at all.☕

stormybadger8 said:Honestly, the start and that opening lap usually account for at least 30%, if not more, of the entire excitement of a race, so having to deal with a start under the SC is just frustrating because that's when you actually see who the real contenders are 😬 It’s basically a complete mess when they force a start under the SC during a race like this 🤷 when you can't even get a clean, predictable launch, let alone drive at a reasonable pace ☕

yet plenty of drivers were reporting that they could handle driving without any issues at all

rustystag7 said:Kudos to Maria Nelson2 for putting in the work, I guess, but honestly, claiming you can pull anything meaningful out of a slower car like this feels like someone trying to sell overpriced toys to toddlers.

.

I can't really get on board with that logic. You’ve got drivers who are absolute legends and others who just aren't there, so if we're going to draw lines based on what kind of car they're sitting in, then by your theory, Fernando Alonso and Nelson Piquet are basically cut from the same cloth. It completely ignores the way Alonso manages to drag a subpar car into the points or even onto the podium through sheer grit and smart driving. That isn't some mysterious "X factor" you can just wave away; it's the fundamental difference between the elite tier and everyone else—the ones who win when the car is fast, but still find a way to fight for trophies when the machinery is garbage.🤷

Hey, losers... we’re less than three days out from the next race and there isn't even a new thread open yet?!

What are we waiting for?

Michael Lee4 said:Seriously, guys... we are less than three days away from the next race and there isn't even a new thread open yet?!

What are we all waiting for?

mom's on strike😠

Morgan Murphy7 said:I'm just sitting here waiting for someone to start a thread so I can finally dump all my expectations🙏

What, are we expecting another "Renault finishes 1st or 2nd" miracle?

Keep waiting, kiddos—the kid's at school getting an education... hopefully.😁

silentbear49 said:Is he back at it? Expecting another Renault failure?

Waiting on mommy—except the kid is in school, actually getting an education... hopefully.😁

🤣He’s stuck in summer school for math.😬 🤣

Now he thinks he can do anything.😁

Arthur Doyle70 said:I don't know, man, I just can't get on board with that. You’ve got drivers who are absolute legends and then you've got the ones who just sort of exist, right? If we're saying there's a clear divide when people are sitting in top-tier cars, why wouldn't that same gap show up when they're stuck in slower machinery? By your logic, you're basically saying Fernando Alonso and Nelson Piquet are exactly the same level, which... yeah, no. Think about it. That whole thing where Alonso manages to drag a mediocre car into the points—you know, the stuff where he's playing it smart, dialing in the setup, driving with his head instead of just mashing the pedal—that's real. It’s not some mysterious "X factor" or whatever; it's just the literal definition of what separates the elite from the rest. It's the difference between someone winning races in a fast car and someone actually grabbing a podium or scoring points even when their car is a total dog.🤷

Look, I mean, you’re not wrong, for sure. There are definitely differences there, but honestly? It’s not like they're that massive or anything...
I mean, I guess you’ve got a point there. It’s way easier to manage a driver when there’s a clear hierarchy in place—you know exactly who the number one guy is and who’s playing support. It's like having a playbook ready to go. Trying to navigate a race when nobody knows their role? That’s just asking for chaos. It’s much harder to drive when you don't have that 1-2 setup to lean on.

Look, let's be real—Alonso is a total master at what he does. But even with guys like him, you can clearly see when there's a designated number one driver in the cockpit. It’s that obvious hierarchy where everyone knows exactly who the boss is. Honestly, it just reminds me of how things used to run over at McLaren, you know? I feel like I'm blanking on a few other teams that played that same game... someone please hit me up if any other names come to mind.

And honestly, there’s just so much stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't see. Like, remember how we all used to clown on Alonso back when he was at McLaren? Calling him a total softie or whatever? Yeah, maybe we were wrong. There’s probably some shady business happening under the hood—like, maybe certain drivers or even just the "golden boys" were getting special treatment, like being allowed to start with less fuel or some other rigged advantage. It’s probably all there if you know where to look.

Look, I mean, obviously there are gaps between drivers. Like, yeah, thank God we actually categorize them as better or worse, because let's be real, nobody is arguing against that. But it’s not like we're seeing these massive, night-and-day differences anymore... I don't know how to put it... they just aren't that extreme right now.

And now everyone’s just jumping on the bandwagon to clown on Nelson Piquet, but seriously, who actually knows what kind of junk he was driving? Look, I’m not trying to make excuses for him or anything, but let's be real—he and Fernando Alonso were clearly not even in the same league when it came to their cars. It’s like comparing a beat-up old Ford to a high-end Ferrari; you can't judge the driver without looking at the machine. 🤷

Nelson Piquet definitely isn't some genius who can just figure out how to rip off Alonso's tactics. 🤷

mistybear87 said:mom's strike😠

Give him a red card😁

stormybadger8 said:🤣He’s got an extension from mathematics now😬🤣

At this point, he can basically do whatever he wants, right?😁

Michael Lee4 said:Just give him a red card😁

🤣🤣