China Trip - Shanghai (April 19, 2009)

I wouldn't say I'm particularly obsessed with individual drivers; my loyalty lies solely with Ferrari. Back when Kimi was driving for McLaren, I actually found myself rooting against him, but these days, I'm pulling for both him and Massa.🤣

I’m just rambling aimlessly here...😁

Arthur Doyle70 said:Look, man, I think you’re being way too dramatic here. 🤣🤣

Yesterday, Lewis Hamilton’s drive was basically a "circus act"😁 but he was fighting a car with zero downforce, and somehow managed to finish and grab points even in the rain. Add his aggressive style and how much he trashes those tires into the mix... yeah, just wow.
Comparing him to Felipe Massa is honestly a joke. What Massa did with a car that actually had decent grip compared to the MP4/24 is absurd. All this talk about "luck" this and "luck" that... give me a break, show some originality. 👍

Anyway, congrats on the Sebastian Vettel win and that Red Bull Racing 1-2 finish. 👍

Give me a break. Saying Hamilton drove well is 🤣 since he was actually worse than Massa at Indianapolis Motor Speedway 🤔—the race everyone laughed at after it ended. 😉

trivia question for you: how many times did Heikki Kovalainen spin out in that same car with the chronic lack of downforce? ☕
And of course, every fan loves to shout about how Lewis Hamilton is lightyears better than Kovalainen. ☕

stormybadger8 said:I mean, props to everyone, but claiming Lewis Hamilton drove well is 🤣 when he was actually worse than Felipe Massa at Indianapolis Motor Speedway 🤔, which is the race everyone made fun of afterward😉

trivia question for you: how many laps did Heikki Kovalainen spend spinning that same car that had absolutely zero downforce☕
And all the fans love to shout about how Lewis Hamilton is miles ahead of Kovalainen☕

It’s that same old comparison again—comparing Massa in a top-tier car (yeah, I'm looking at you, Indianapolis Motor Speedway) to Hamilton in a car that basically had no grip at all...😉

So, comparing Kovalainen to Hamilton... honestly, credit to Kovalainen just for dragging that thing across the finish line, but seeing as he was getting similar results back in the MP4/23 days, I'd say it doesn't really matter what you put him in, he's always going to be hovering around 5th place😁.
Hamilton drove aggressively, way more intense than Heikki Kovalainen, and factoring in the tire grip... you get those flashy moves and the whole show🤣... By the way, I'm not saying his driving was anything short of spectacular, I'm just saying he managed to scrape points out of a slow car under impossible conditions with a few really impressive overtakes🤷...

Arthur Doyle70 said:Once again, comparing Felipe Massa in a top-tier car (like at Indianapolis Motor Speedway) to Lewis Hamilton in a car with zero downforce...😉

So, we're comparing Heikki Kovalainen and Lewis Hamilton... Look, props to Kovalainen for even getting that car to the finish line, but since he was pulling basically the same results in the MP4/23, I'd say it doesn't matter what you put him in—he’s always going to be hovering around 5th place.😁.
Hamilton drove on the attack, way more aggressive than Heikki Kovalainen, plus there were grip factors involved... so yeah, those fancy overtakes and the whole show.🤣...By the way, I'm not saying he drove brilliantly or anything... just saying he dragged a slow car into points territory with a few really solid overtakes.🤷

A top-tier car that was a full lap behind the leader 😁 http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/795/

How then do you explain Kovalainen finishing 5th while Hamilton finished 6th, especially since Kovalainen actually overtook him once or twice on track, if I recall correctly?☕

Both Sutil and Sebastien Buemi managed to drag slow cars right up to the points; they just didn't have the luck.☕ If Sebastien Buemi hadn't slammed into Sebastian Vettel, he definitely would've been ahead of Rubens Barrichello, maybe even Button.

What "overtakes" are we talking about? Those moves by Kimi Räikkönen and Heikki Kovalainen (who also braked, wouldn't that be a "glory" moment?) 🤣 or did you see something else?😕

sorry Maria Nelson2, but no matter how much better Felipe Massa gets from season to season, Lewis Hamilton just seems to get worse.

He snagged one lucky championship against some seriously mediocre competition, and that'll be the end of it for his NASCAR career.☕

stormybadger8 said:A top-tier car with a lap time trailing the leader by almost nothing 😁 http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2008/795/

So how do you explain Heikki Kovalainen finishing 5th while Lewis Hamilton ended up 6th, especially since I recall Kovalainen actually passing him once or twice on the track?☕

They brought those slower cars, Sutil and Buemi, right up to the edge of scoring points, they just didn't have the luck.☕ If Buemi hadn't slammed into Vettel, he probably would've finished ahead of Rubens, maybe even Button.

What overtakes are we even talking about, those moves from Kimi and Kovalainen—who was busy braking anyway, so much for prestige🤣 or did you see something else happen?😕

sorry Maria Nelson2, but honestly, no matter how much better Felipe Massa gets from one season to the next, Lewis Hamilton just seems to be sliding further downhill.

He snagged one lucky title against some pretty mediocre competition, and that’ll likely be the ceiling for his entire NASCAR career.☕

I think you get my point, regardless of how much you want to nitpick that race... the car was incredible... way more stable and had significantly more downforce than what Hamilton was struggling with yesterday...

I feel like you're talking way too much trash about Hamilton; look, if you don't like him, fine, that's your take, but it isn't objective, respect.👍 Just tell me where exactly Massa is getting better season after season?? Sure, the kid puts in the work and basically drives better than an unmotivated teammate, but saying he's getting "better and better" feels like a bit of a stretch...🤷

Arthur Doyle70 said:I think you caught my drift, regardless of how messy that race was... the car was seriously good... way more stable and had a ton more downforce than what Lewis Hamilton had yesterday...

Look, I think you’re talking way too much trash about Lewis Hamilton. Okay, fine, you don't like him, that's your thing, but this isn't being objective. Respect. 👍 Just tell me one thing—where exactly is Felipe Massa better season after season?? Sure, the kid puts in the work and honestly drives better than his teammate who just doesn't seem to care, but saying he's getting better and better? I think that's a bit of a stretch....🤷

But look, the kid is a solid driver from year to year. He makes fewer mistakes, you can see his composure, and he doesn't do stupid stuff.....

A couple of seasons ago, there was so much crap happening on his end plus issues with the team that basically blew any chance at a title fight....

Now I'm thinking back to that red light incident in Canada and all those dumb crashes and whatnot....

Last season he drove great, even if he had those brain-fart moments spinning out in the rain at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Not that I'd say the guy can't handle wet tracks—he was alright yesterday, and don't even get me started on Brazil, or Monaco where he was looking like the best out there until that breakdown or whatever happened...

But real talent shows up when you're overtaking, and I find it fascinating how Kimi keeps bragging when he hasn't really done anything in the last two years since winning the championship....

And honestly, whether he's "uninterested" or not, he just doesn't look good out there on the track....

Last year Massa did everything humanly possible to be champion, but man, sometimes you just need some luck on your side....

Just gotta remind you that Lola lost a race that was already in the bag with two laps left because of an engine failure. That wasn't his fault. And that weird mess with the hose dragging in the pits? Also not his fault....

So, I really don't see what the issue is here. He's consistently better than Kimi on the grid, yet people claim it's all the car and that he lacks real skill....

And I haven't seen anyone actually beat him in a head-to-head battle lately, so what's the deal? 🤷

Tony, you really have a way with words. 🙏 🙏

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Lewis drove, I’d say, his usual Hamilton style. Fast, aggressive, always hunting. As for those risky moves, I don't think it's a lack of skill—it's just his mindset. Those maneuvers were more a reflection of how things were playing out on the track. Honestly, he gave us exactly what we expected yesterday. Plus, he had a quick car, unlike some other guys on this thread. You could see massive improvement compared to, say, Australia.
So, if you ask me, Lewis has the driving talent and the pace 👍.

What I really have a problem with, though, is how much he risks everyone else on the track. Eventually, he's just going to train people to get out of his way the second they see him in their rearview mirror. When it comes to being a hazard to the rest of the field, he definitely has 👎.

Arthur Doyle70 said:I think you understood my point regardless of that race... he had a great car... much more stable and with way more downforce than Lewis Hamilton yesterday...

I think you’re being too hard on Lewis Hamilton. Fine, if you don't like him, that's your take, but it isn't objective. Respect.👍 Just tell me where Felipe Massa is actually better season after season? Sure, the kid works hard and essentially drives better than his disinterested teammate, but saying he's better in every single way is a bit of a stretch.🤷

First off, Lewis Hamilton has more luck than anyone else on the planet. Take yesterday, for example: Adrian Sutil spins out and destroys his front wing, while this guy spins a few times and always walks away unscathed. Another thing I've noticed since last year is how easily he can force Timo Glock, Mark Webber, and Jarno Trulli off the track, yet nobody ever touches him during an overtake—it's like they just let him through. Whatever he does in any race, his driving is praised to the heavens, along with everything else about him since he joined Formula 1.
Second, his teammate isn't disinterested this season. He's had chances for great positions in all three races, and he's actually been better than Massa in qualifying so far.

Amanda Kelly As if I haven't heard this all before.
I've always felt the truth usually sits somewhere in that messy middle ground.

Lewis was driving exactly how you’d expect—purely Hamilton style. Fast, aggressive, and just constantly on the attack. As for that little stunt he pulled, I don't think it was about his actual skill behind the wheel, but more about his headspace at the moment; those kinds of moves are usually just a reflection of the chaos happening on the track. Honestly, he delivered exactly what I anticipated yesterday. It felt like he actually had a competitive car for once, which is a far cry from what some of the other drivers were struggling with. You could really see the progress compared to how things went down in Australia.
If you ask me, Lewis Hamilton still has the raw pace and the driving talent to hold his own. 👍.

That’s a pretty fair point you made there. 👍
It’s honestly getting pretty exhausting and repetitive to see everyone constantly tearing him down like this. People keep talking about "luck" as if they haven't been saying it for years now—it’s starting to feel a bit played out. Then again, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it is getting old.🤷

Nelson Piquet announced he’s aiming for 16th place in the Bahrain standings 🙏

It’s certainly a bold claim from him 🙏

stormybadger8 said:Look, if anyone out there hates Ferrari and thinks Massa is the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel driver on the grid, well, that’s me right here. 😉

Personally, I don't even think he deserves to be sitting in a Formula 1 car. ☕
And honestly? I think Ferrari is just a total mess and a complete fraud of a team. ☕

But seriously, listening to people claim Lewis Hamilton drove better than Massa yesterday is just plain idiotic—like, we're talking next-level stupidity here—because the only thing Hamilton actually did better than anyone else yesterday was beating Nelson Piquet and Jarno Trulli. ☕

Even Nakajima was better than Hamilton, and the fact that he even managed to scrape some points was nothing but pure, unadulterated luck, and that's the honest truth. You're supposed to know how to control a car when you spin out, but hey, if you actually knew how to control a car, you wouldn't be flying off the track in the first place. ☕ istina treba znat kontrolirat bolid kod izletanja,al ko zna kontrolirat bolid,taj ne izlječe sa staze☕

Heikki Kovalainen is consistently way slower than Hamilton, and I mean significantly slower, yet he still tried his best to slow him down and eventually ended up ahead of him anyway. 🤣 I mean, what bigger proof could you possibly need than that? 🤣

I actually like Ferrari, and I'm done making fun of Massa because I can see he's actually a decent driver, whereas the worst driver out there is definitely Nelson P. ☕

I reckon he actually deserves to drive in Formula 1.
Ferrari has gone totally downhill ever since they're left with just the Italians; man, those guys are just too temperamental.

Massa was actually driving better than Hamilton yesterday.

Kovalainen was just trying to grab some points since he failed to score anything in the first two races.

Morgan Murphy7 said:Nelson Piquet announced he's aiming for 16th place in the Bahrain standings 🙏

bold move on his part 🙏

give me a break🤣 🤣 🤣 🙂
it looks like he’s suddenly found some major confidence 😁 🤣 😂,but I’d bet my life he ends up back in 17th during qualifying

What are you actually trying to say? That Lewis Hamilton decided to stage a little masterclass by intentionally spinning out a few times, only to show off his insane skill by perfectly controlling the car every single time? Like he just glided right back onto the track without hitting a single curb or wall? You really think he was doing that on purpose? 🤷

Just try to remember some of the most pathetic pit stops 😬

David Coulthard is definitely at the top of that list 🙏 though Lewis Hamilton isn't far behind 🤣

And when it comes to exiting the pits 😬 we don't even need to debate it—Hamilton takes the gold, though Massa is a serious contender with that fuel hose incident 😬

All in all, > we basically got Piquet's dancer, Lewis Hamilton, and Nakajima. Because of them, I barely even saw Sebastian Vettel on the broadcast 😢

stormybadger8 said:All in all, yesterday was basically just Piquet's dancer, Lewis Hamilton, and Nakajima putting on a show; because of all that distraction, I barely caught even a glimpse of Sebastian Vettel during the broadcast😢

You know how it goes—if someone is leading the pack, that's where everyone's eyes end up looking.😁

Morgan Murphy7 said:You know he's driving, so what else is there to watch? 😁

Look, Red Bull has the best-looking car on the grid. 😍 It sucks having to stare at those ugly-ass cars during the broadcast. 😬

Morgan Murphy7 said:you know he’s driving, so what is there even to look at? 😁

I mean, you gotta admit the car looks gorgeous
but honestly, what really bugs me is how that damn foam managed to rip the nose right off Nelson Piquet's car—it just left this massive gaping hole, and I'm sitting here wondering if it's because they don't have KERS or if something else is going on...😕🤷

darkmarlin16 said:I have to admit, the car looks stunning,
but what really worries me is how easily that foam managed to tear right through the nose of Nelson Piquet's car. It just left this gaping hole. Is that because they don't have KERS, or is there something else going on?😕🤷

Well, that’s just Renault for you.😍

darkmarlin16 said:I have to admit, the car looks stunning,
but what really gets me thinking is how that foam barrier managed to just tear right through the nose of Nelson Piquet's car. It left nothing but a gaping hole. Is that because they don't have KERS anymore, or is there something else going on?😕🤷

Look, we're talking about a slab of high-density foam, maybe 30 or 40 centimeters thick, sitting firmly on the ground through wind and rain.
Piquet hit it at over 100 km/h—of course the wing was going to snap under that kind of force. ☕

Besides, if we're being honest, every Pokémon has a special ability, right? I guess Piquet’s is just "Spin of Death." 🙏