United States GP - Sep 26, 2010

stormybadger8 said:Meanwhile, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso are real men.🤣

Even if that were true, what does any of that have to do with how he drives or Formula 1 in general?😕

I mean, when I see those blonde highlights... and the guy is German... I just can't quite wrap my head around it.🤣

Jason Campbell70 said:Even if I can't wrap my head around that little Spanish guy with his perfectly groomed eyebrows, you have to admit: he’s currently the best driver on the grid.

Alonso is definitely the guy at the moment. No question about it.👍

But then again, just five races ago, he was easily the worst of the top five. What are we even doing here?🤷

Our criteria for greatness are completely broken.🤣
One bad race or two and suddenly the driver is washed up, useless, and finished.
Then, one teammate lets him past, he has one disaster of a race, follows it up with three great ones, and boom—suddenly he's the greatest of all time again.🙏

We're honestly worse than our own sports journalists when they cover the national teams.🤣
One morning they're world-beaters and the greatest generation ever, then the next day after a loss, they're just a bunch of lazy, talentless, low-tier athletes.🙄

redheron12 said:I mean, when I see those blonde highlights... and the guy is German... I just can't quite wrap my head around it.🤣

😕Why? Because Germans are all black, red, green, or brown otherwise?🤣

Golden Boy:



What a joke of a driver.
Moving at a snail's pace? Simply incapable of clinching a title.

Read up—he's clueless. 😁

We could probably pay Ferrari's mechanics a lifetime bonus for what happened in Singapore '08.
It’s a total tragicomedy when a driver can owe his one career title to the opponent's pit crew, pure luck, and Nelson Piquet.

Otherwise, he would have lost that too.

stormybadger8 said:😕 then how on earth can you even watch Formula 1 or Fernando Alonso on screen?🤣
If someone here is acting like a saint just because they climbed into a car at the start and then defended him with such insane logic that it makes your head spin, that's Alonso. We aren't much further off from Lewis Hamilton anyway.😬

No need to even mention dedin.🤣

And out of everyone, Vettel is the one who disgusts you because of the excuses?🙄
Look, Keith Rodriguez27, stop talking nonsense.

I seriously don't get this "I'm gonna kill him" comment of yours.🤷
The only explanation is that you only read my posts and have everyone else from this thread on Ignore.🤣
It's true, I can be a jerk sometimes and say some pretty nasty stuff, but I'm definitely not the only one, and I'm certainly not the worst.

So, who are you even rooting for?😕

Who says I think Alonso, Hamilton, or the old man are superstars? 🤷 They're all just okay in my book, it's just that Vettel is a bit less likable to me because he's inherently more annoying and because—not just from you—he gets hyped up way more than he deserves. The others actually have some backing for that praise, like, you know, winning championships. As for the forum, of course I read other users (and they aren't miles away from you in their views), but you're one of those whose posts I notice most, and since your writing style isn't wrapped in fancy cellophane, your "praises" carry the furthest.

so who do you even root for😕

Out of the top 5 still in the title hunt? Nobody. Some are more likable than others, but honestly, I wouldn't care who takes the title in the end. From the rest of the field, I'm rooting for Nick Heidfeld, and I also like Robert Kubica and Adrian Sutil.

stormybadger8 said:😕Why? Because Germans are all black, red, green, or brown otherwise?🤣

Colors are easy enough to handle—but man, they really make a statement. 🤣

Whenever I see him, my mind immediately jumps to Julie Andrews and the Von Trapps—it’s such an instant connection for me. 😂

Keith Rodriguez27 said:Who says I think Alonso, Hamilton, or the old man are superstars? 🤷 They're all just okay in my book, it's just that Vettel is a bit less likable to me because he's inherently more annoying and because—not just from you—he gets hyped up way more than he deserves. The others actually have some backing for that praise, like, you know, winning championships. As for the forum, of course I read other users (and they aren't miles away from you in their views), but you're one of those whose posts I notice most, and since your writing style isn't wrapped in fancy cellophane, your "praises" carry the furthest.

so who do you even root for😕

Out of the top 5 still in the title hunt? Nobody. Some are more likable than others, but honestly, I wouldn't care who takes the title in the end. From the rest of the field, I'm rooting for Nick Heidfeld, and I also like Robert Kubica and Adrian Sutil.

So basically, three out of your five favorites are the same as mine.👍

I don't know, none of this makes sense to me. You've got the McLaren camp—meaning Hamilton—the Ferrari camp, then the Alonso camp (which logically should be the same thing, though I doubt it), plus a lost Seb over at Williams, myself, and obviously Phil and his obsession with MSC. That's pretty much the whole lineup.

But now I really don't get how you guys claim to be neutral.😕

When I defend Vettel during the Webber-Vettel Turkey situation, suddenly Vettel is the undisputed villain and Webber is the hero, and I'm clearly being totally biased.

But when everyone starts squawking about how Webber is an idiot and Hamilton is just some poor collateral damage from crazy Webber, then that's perfectly fine, right?😕

Look, the reason I didn't even argue about it is because it's been obvious for a long time that there's zero point in debating it. Honestly, I just don't have the energy anymore.☕

stormybadger8 said:So basically, three out of your five favorites are the same as mine.👍

I don't know, none of this makes sense to me. You've got the McLaren camp—meaning Hamilton—the Ferrari camp, then the Alonso camp (which logically should be the same thing, though I doubt it), plus a lost Seb over at Williams, myself, and obviously Phil and his obsession with MSC. That's pretty much the whole lineup.

But now I really don't get how you guys claim to be neutral.😕

When I defend Vettel during the Webber-Vettel Turkey situation, suddenly Vettel is the undisputed villain and Webber is the hero, and I'm clearly being totally biased.

But when everyone starts squawking about how Webber is an idiot and Hamilton is just some poor collateral damage from crazy Webber, then that's perfectly fine, right?😕

Look, the reason I didn't even argue about it is because it's been obvious for a long time that there's zero point in debating it. Honestly, I just don't have the energy anymore.☕

They're just messing with you.😁

stormybadger8 said:So basically, three out of your five favorites are the same as mine.👍

I don't know, none of this makes sense to me. You've got the McLaren camp—meaning Hamilton—the Ferrari camp, then the Alonso camp (which logically should be the same thing, though I doubt it), plus a lost Seb over at Williams, myself, and obviously Phil and his obsession with MSC. That's pretty much the whole lineup.

But now I really don't get how you guys claim to be neutral.😕

When I defend Vettel during the Webber-Vettel Turkey situation, suddenly Vettel is the undisputed villain and Webber is the hero, and I'm clearly being totally biased.

But when everyone starts squawking about how Webber is an idiot and Hamilton is just some poor collateral damage from crazy Webber, then that's perfectly fine, right?😕

Look, the reason I didn't even argue about it is because it's been obvious for a long time that there's zero point in debating it. Honestly, I just don't have the energy anymore.☕

You're telling me...😉

redheron12 said:I mean, when I see those blonde highlights... and the guy is German... I just can't quite wrap my head around it.🤣

The guy seems genuinely likable—bright, full of personality, and easy to be around. At least, that's my take based on what I’ve caught during the pre-race and post-race coverage on RTL.
I’d say he’s got a similar vibe to Jenson Button when it comes to personality, only he's ten years younger and way more seasoned.
I get it. It’s hard to stomach when someone is that damn fast and that much of a jerk at the same time.

stormybadger8 said:So basically, three out of your five favorites are the same as mine.👍

I don't know, none of this makes sense to me. You've got the McLaren camp—meaning Hamilton—the Ferrari camp, then the Alonso camp (which logically should be the same thing, though I doubt it), plus a lost Seb over at Williams, myself, and obviously Phil and his obsession with MSC. That's pretty much the whole lineup.

But now I really don't get how you guys claim to be neutral.😕

When I defend Vettel during the Webber-Vettel Turkey situation, suddenly Vettel is the undisputed villain and Webber is the hero, and I'm clearly being totally biased.

But when everyone starts squawking about how Webber is an idiot and Hamilton is just some poor collateral damage from crazy Webber, then that's perfectly fine, right?😕

Look, the reason I didn't even argue about it is because it's been obvious for a long time that there's zero point in debating it. Honestly, I just don't have the energy anymore.☕

I honestly don't understand what you're struggling with regarding these descriptions. Mark Webber wasn't at fault when Sebastian Vettel veered into him, yet suddenly he's the one to blame now that Vettel has cut into Lewis Hamilton. The fact that I’m willing to defend a driver in one instance and criticize him in another just shows that I'm prepared—unlike you, perhaps—to look at things with a bit more objectivity.

I have to give Keith Rodriguez27 credit on one point: I actually preferred Vettel until I stumbled upon this forum and ran headfirst into this cult-like worship surrounding him. But if that’s even relevant, it seems like you’ve backed down quite a bit regarding that stance. Lately, I’ve hardly noticed it at all during the races. 😁

redheron12 said:There are maybe twenty Formula 1 World Champions in total, yet you managed to insult a quarter of them in a single sentence—which, frankly, caught me off guard.

But it's specifically these personality flaws you listed...

Give Button some speed and guts, and he'd be just as erratic as Lewis Hamilton.
Give Webber some common sense, and he'd be as boring as Button.
If Alonso showed a bit more respect, he'd just be another reckless guy like Webber.
If Hamilton calmed down, he'd be as cutthroat as Schumacher.
If Schumacher had a sense of fair play, he wouldn't be so obsessed with the job and would be as detached as Kimi Raikkonen.
If Kimi Raikkonen had any work ethic, he'd be as arrogant as Alonso.

So, no matter how you slice it, nothing works out. 👍

Look, I'm repeating myself here, but that was just an internal comparison between those six guys. I don't know if "trashing" them is really the right word.

If you look at the bigger picture, Schumacher Schumacher and Alonso are easily top 10 drivers of all time. Hamilton could definitely get there. Kimi Räikkönen and Button are the type of drivers who snagged a title and you can't really fault them—they aren't the absolute best ever, but they aren't the worst to ever win one either. Then there's Webber, the underdog who finally got a shot at the title and will probably stay right there (kind of like Jacques Laffite, Michele Alboreto, Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Eddie Irvine, or Felipe Massa). They're all solid drivers that I respect in my own way.

My point was basically that if you made an all-time list based on a mix of pure talent and actual results, the ranking would follow the order of their championship wins (or in Webber's case, when they actually had a shot at it). For instance, I personally think Button is a better, more complete driver than Kimi Räikkönen, but because of the gap in wins and seasons spent at the top, Kimi is objectively ahead of him.

And as for that idea that my opinions shift every few races? I don't buy it. A bad season for his old man might shake up his reputation a bit, but it shouldn't erase what he's done. Alonso's string of mistakes early this season might mean he isn't the best driver of 2010, but there's zero doubt he's been the best of this entire decade. Or, if I can brag a little: 😁 - last year someone wrote that nobody could tell how good Button was until he got into a real car, and I dug up a post of mine from 4-5 years ago where I argued that anyone in a great car would be fighting for titles... People change and grow, sure, but it's rare for someone to truly explode onto the scene without any warning, like Webber did this year. To me, he's a surprise, just like Massa was in 2008, whereas Button wasn't a surprise last year.

As for those predictions about how things might change, I'm totally with you. Honestly, my biggest fear is that the scenario for Hamilton plays out, and we end up seeing a whole new level of ruthlessness on the track in the next decade. That kid might actually end up being even more cold-blooded than Senna or Schumacher Schumacher.

stormyviper11 said:Look, I'm repeating myself here, but that was just an internal comparison between those six guys. I don't know if "trashing" them is really the right word.

If you look at the bigger picture, Schumacher Schumacher and Alonso are easily top 10 drivers of all time. Hamilton could definitely get there. Kimi Räikkönen and Button are the type of drivers who snagged a title and you can't really fault them—they aren't the absolute best ever, but they aren't the worst to ever win one either. Then there's Webber, the underdog who finally got a shot at the title and will probably stay right there (kind of like Jacques Laffite, Michele Alboreto, Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Eddie Irvine, or Felipe Massa). They're all solid drivers that I respect in my own way.

My point was basically that if you made an all-time list based on a mix of pure talent and actual results, the ranking would follow the order of their championship wins (or in Webber's case, when they actually had a shot at it). For instance, I personally think Button is a better, more complete driver than Kimi Räikkönen, but because of the gap in wins and seasons spent at the top, Kimi is objectively ahead of him.

And as for that idea that my opinions shift every few races? I don't buy it. A bad season for his old man might shake up his reputation a bit, but it shouldn't erase what he's done. Alonso's string of mistakes early this season might mean he isn't the best driver of 2010, but there's zero doubt he's been the best of this entire decade. Or, if I can brag a little: 😁 - last year someone wrote that nobody could tell how good Button was until he got into a real car, and I dug up a post of mine from 4-5 years ago where I argued that anyone in a great car would be fighting for titles... People change and grow, sure, but it's rare for someone to truly explode onto the scene without any warning, like Webber did this year. To me, he's a surprise, just like Massa was in 2008, whereas Button wasn't a surprise last year.

As for those predictions about how things might change, I'm totally with you. Honestly, my biggest fear is that the scenario for Hamilton plays out, and we end up seeing a whole new level of ruthlessness on the track in the next decade. That kid might actually end up being even more cold-blooded than Senna or Schumacher Schumacher.

..but isn't that exactly what makes racing great? Isn't that the true spirit of Formula 1, back before the money, the marketing, and the big teams started dictating how drivers should drive—let alone how they should behave on track?

I actually prefer Lewis Hamilton because he’s got that relentless drive to be the best. He goes after it without making any compromises, even if he ends up looking like an idiot most of the time... he doesn't give a damn about team orders or corporate priorities... it's just pure racing, and whoever has more talent, luck, or sheer balls ends up on top...

People around here on the forums always say, "without Hemić and all his crazy stunts, racing would be as boring as watching paint dry"... 😉

..yeah, people call him impulsive, reckless, whatever... but that's exactly why I like him. He doesn't bow down to authority (like the Alonso-McLaren situation) and he'll fight for himself any way he can...

..but he didn't say after Monza that he should just play nice during the final races to grab whatever points are left. His heart couldn't take it when he saw a chance to muscle past a powerhouse like Mark Webber at the Singapore GP..that's my point right there—he drives with his heart, not with a paycheck or a team manager breathing down his neck... 😉

..I wouldn't be surprised if we see him putting on a massive show for the rest of the season. Since he's basically tanked his championship chances anyway, he might just start driving super risky (which would be fun to watch) since he's got nothing left to lose...

Joshua Newman2 said:I honestly don't understand what you're struggling with regarding these descriptions. Mark Webber wasn't at fault when Sebastian Vettel veered into him, yet suddenly he's the one to blame now that Vettel has cut into Lewis Hamilton. The fact that I’m willing to defend a driver in one instance and criticize him in another just shows that I'm prepared—unlike you, perhaps—to look at things with a bit more objectivity.

I have to give Keith Rodriguez27 credit on one point: I actually preferred Vettel until I stumbled upon this forum and ran headfirst into this cult-like worship surrounding him. But if that’s even relevant, it seems like you’ve backed down quite a bit regarding that stance. Lately, I’ve hardly noticed it at all during the races. 😁

In my opinion—and it's the same view held by plenty of people within Formula 1—Webber isn't to blame for this collision at all, let alone for moving into Hamilton... so there's really no reason to attack him for it.
And I'm with you on the Vettel-Webber situation.

People tend to overlook just how incredible Kimi was during his time at McLaren. He was nothing short of phenomenal, yet consistently plagued by terrible luck.😢 Recently, even an American columnist mentioned that he arguably deserved the championship title more than Fernando Alonso did. I vividly remember two specific races where he dominated from start to finish, only to be forced out by mechanical failures. In both instances, Alonso ended up taking the win instead. It speaks volumes that Jean Todt at Ferrari was chasing after Kimi rather than the two-time world champion, Alonso. From the moment I started following Formula 1, he has been the most talented driver on the grid, but talent only goes so far when you act like you couldn't care less about anything. Then again, if he weren't like that, he probably wouldn't be quite as charming as he is.

Sometimes there’s something cool about watching pure aggression and hotheads clashing on track. But hey, everyone has their thing—for me, it’s all about that pursuit of perfection. I love seeing drivers squeeze every single drop of potential out of their car and themselves throughout a race weekend by just being hyper-optimized. Honestly, the most gripping season I ever watched was probably 2006. It was just two absolute masters going head-to-head from start to finish, basically playing a high-stakes game of who could make fewer mistakes to stay one step ahead of perfection. Plus, there was that extra satisfaction of seeing Fernando Alonso, who’s younger and way more likable in my book, eventually edge out Michael Schumacher. Jenson Button was a solid example last year too—taking wins when they were actually on the table, then pivoting to damage control once the window closed. If I had to pick, Schumacher's 2003 title is the one I respect the most for those exact reasons. Now, don't get me wrong, Kimi is undeniably a much more "exciting" driver to watch, but all that unnecessary pushing, setting track records on the final lap, and acting reluctant to back off even when things are breaking down... it’s a bit much. I thought that stuff was cool about Ayrton Senna when I was a kid, but honestly, it feels like a show put on for hyped-up teenagers. Just a bunch of restless kids burning rubber at the lights—Lewis Hamilton is kind of headed down that same path lately. These days, I find myself more drawn to mature drivers who actually know how to manage a race; I have a lot of respect for that level of skill. It goes back to Fangio's whole doctrine: you should win by the smallest margin possible that still gets you the trophy. And that’s exactly why (well, not *only* because of that) I consider Fangio to be the greatest and most complete Grand Prix driver to ever live...

stormyviper11 said:Sometimes there’s something cool about watching pure aggression and hotheads clashing on track. But hey, everyone has their thing—for me, it’s all about that pursuit of perfection. I love seeing drivers squeeze every single drop of potential out of their car and themselves throughout a race weekend by just being hyper-optimized. Honestly, the most gripping season I ever watched was probably 2006. It was just two absolute masters going head-to-head from start to finish, basically playing a high-stakes game of who could make fewer mistakes to stay one step ahead of perfection. Plus, there was that extra satisfaction of seeing Fernando Alonso, who’s younger and way more likable in my book, eventually edge out Michael Schumacher. Jenson Button was a solid example last year too—taking wins when they were actually on the table, then pivoting to damage control once the window closed. If I had to pick, Schumacher's 2003 title is the one I respect the most for those exact reasons. Now, don't get me wrong, Kimi is undeniably a much more "exciting" driver to watch, but all that unnecessary pushing, setting track records on the final lap, and acting reluctant to back off even when things are breaking down... it’s a bit much. I thought that stuff was cool about Ayrton Senna when I was a kid, but honestly, it feels like a show put on for hyped-up teenagers. Just a bunch of restless kids burning rubber at the lights—Lewis Hamilton is kind of headed down that same path lately. These days, I find myself more drawn to mature drivers who actually know how to manage a race; I have a lot of respect for that level of skill. It goes back to Fangio's whole doctrine: you should win by the smallest margin possible that still gets you the trophy. And that’s exactly why (well, not *only* because of that) I consider Fangio to be the greatest and most complete Grand Prix driver to ever live...

Yeah, unfortunately, it’s the titles that stick in people's minds... which means in maybe 15 or 20 years, nobody’s even going to remember Nick Heidfeld. Even though he’s basically the same type of driver as Jenson Button... super clean, takes what's given, doesn't mess up, but never really breaks out of that average zone...

Your explanation makes sense, but it feels a little contradictory... look at it this way: it's like saying you watch 90 minutes of football just to appreciate the "beauty of a pass." Sure, that works, but it doesn't really get to the heart of why anyone watches sports in the first place. People watch football for the goals, just like people watch F1 for the overtakes—if we're being literal here...

I’m not interested in some sterile, tactical circling around the track, just letting fate take its course and waiting for whatever happens to happen... I’d much rather see a driver actually taking charge of their own destiny, whatever that looks like, instead of just cruising along and settling for what's handed to them (aka waiting for other drivers to screw up)...

...but hey, that's why there's room for everyone, right? We all cheer for different kinds of drivers... 😉

PS - as Del Boy would say: He who dares wins 😉

I honestly can't decide, but for me, nothing beats those moments when Kimi Raikkonen secures pole position and just absolutely shreds the field from the very first corner to the last, pulling away by a massive half-minute over second place.

ruggedfox28 said:Yeah, unfortunately, it’s the titles that stick in people's minds... which means in maybe 15 or 20 years, nobody’s even going to remember Nick Heidfeld. Even though he’s basically the same type of driver as Jenson Button... super clean, takes what's given, doesn't mess up, but never really breaks out of that average zone...

Your explanation makes sense, but it feels a little contradictory... look at it this way: it's like saying you watch 90 minutes of football just to appreciate the "beauty of a pass." Sure, that works, but it doesn't really get to the heart of why anyone watches sports in the first place. People watch football for the goals, just like people watch F1 for the overtakes—if we're being literal here...

I’m not interested in some sterile, tactical circling around the track, just letting fate take its course and waiting for whatever happens to happen... I’d much rather see a driver actually taking charge of their own destiny, whatever that looks like, instead of just cruising along and settling for what's handed to them (aka waiting for other drivers to screw up)...

...but hey, that's why there's room for everyone, right? We all cheer for different kinds of drivers... 😉

PS - as Del Boy would say: He who dares wins 😉

Look, for me, soccer perfection—or as close as it gets—was that 1994 US National Team run where they made it to the finals while only letting opponents get shots on goal maybe seven or eight times total over six matches... and most of those were desperate long-range shots. Watching a perfect defense was way more satisfying to me than those high-scoring blowouts. It's that same appreciation for tactics and flawless execution that makes me enjoy marathons, biathlons, and other long-winded sports that most people find boring. It's a matter of taste... and honestly, it usually comes with age. When I was younger, I didn't give a damn about those judges scoring ski jumps, but nowadays, whenever I'm watching at Planica, the style matters just as much to me as the distance...

Anyway, back to the point: Alonso had major issues with the car sliding around during the lap when the safety car heads to the pits for the second time this season. In Monaco, I was convinced it was just him being careless, but after seeing it happen again, I'm starting to think it might actually be the car. Does anyone know if there's been anything mentioned about Ferrari having trouble maintaining tire temperatures in those specific situations?

Joshua Newman2 said:I honestly don't understand what you're struggling with regarding these descriptions. Mark Webber wasn't at fault when Sebastian Vettel veered into him, yet suddenly he's the one to blame now that Vettel has cut into Lewis Hamilton. The fact that I’m willing to defend a driver in one instance and criticize him in another just shows that I'm prepared—unlike you, perhaps—to look at things with a bit more objectivity.

I have to give Keith Rodriguez27 credit on one point: I actually preferred Vettel until I stumbled upon this forum and ran headfirst into this cult-like worship surrounding him. But if that’s even relevant, it seems like you’ve backed down quite a bit regarding that stance. Lately, I’ve hardly noticed it at all during the races. 😁

And then suddenly, I'm the one being biased. 😕 ???????????

Alright, here’s the cold, hard truth about that Vettel-Webber mess in Turkey, and honestly, it kills me to even say it.

Sebastian Vettel seriously messed up in Turkey, and it’s going to cost him the title. But look, it wasn't just his fault—he isn't the sole reason for that crash, regardless of who was talking trash. He was barely ahead of Mark Webber, like, almost half a car length ahead, and Webber was shoving him the entire time. Vettel jerked to the side and his rear tire clipped the front of Webber's car. That part? Yeah, that's on him. But honestly, it's not even that massive of an error. Both guys are equally to blame here. The kid didn't exactly have a choice but to turn into the corner; he couldn't just keep going straight or literally stop dead on the track, for God's sake.

Sebastian Vettel’s massive, unforgivable mistake happened away from the track and away from the car. That whole thing where he was waving his hands around and gesturing like Mark Webber had lost his mind? That’s his biggest blunder of the season. It’s costing him more than anything else, and honestly, it’s the one thing I actually hold against him—and I'm pretty sure the entire team does, too.
Between that mistake and the way journalists, parts of his own team, and random people on the forums all jumped him, everyone’s acting like he’s the villain just because of the backlash. It’s like they’re blaming him for the hate he's taking rather than actually looking at how he was driving on track.

Look, regarding that Webber-Hamilton situation, Gil, there’s no debate for me. It's on Hamilton. He was in a spot almost identical to Vettel's, but just watch the footage. Hamilton is the one forcing Webber off the track. He left enough room for a bicycle to squeeze through, maybe, but definitely not a Formula 1 car. There was enough space on the right side for two semi-trucks to pass.🙄 Webber had it in his grasp.
And he just flies right off the track.
B. kočiti is acting like a total idiot.
Just take a normal line through the corner and slam right into Hamilton.

Mark Webber went with option C, and honestly, he made the right call. Webber didn't flinch for a single second—he didn't move an inch toward Lewis Hamilton. It was Hamilton who slammed right into him because he was the one forcing the issue, trying to squeeze Webber off the track. Webber just held his line.☕
Hamilton is totally on himself here. He’s the one who dragged both of them into this mess, so there isn't even a debate. We all know who's at fault, plain and simple. If the roles were reversed and it was Webber, he would have been slapped with a penalty mid-race or right after it finished. The fact that he wasn't tells you everything you need to know about why this happened.☕

Look at you being all "objective" all of a sudden.

Webber was stuck in Hamilton's blind spot, so the poor guy didn't see him coming. Honestly, Hamilton is the one who swerved hard left—and he went all the way. He’s lucky he didn't rip the steering wheel right off.🤣 So he slams into Webber and suddenly it's all Webber's fault in your book? Typical.

Webber was also in the blind spot, Joshua Newman2, exactly the same way. And how can you even be sure Vettel saw him? In this case, Vettel swerves right into Webber—so according to you, it's all Vettel's fault.

Here’s the difference between those two incidents:

Hamilton-Vettel:
1. Hamilton is the one pushing Webber off the track, while Vettel is the one being pushed out.🙏 2. Both hit Webber. The only real difference is one swerves left and the other swerves right, but if that's such a massive distinction to you, then whatever.

Webber:
1. In one instance, he's the guy pushing someone else off; in the other, he's the victim getting shoved wide.
2. In both cases, he just hammers the throttle, holds his line, and refuses to budge an inch.

So basically, in your book, every racing incident has one single culprit: the guy being pushed off. Meanwhile, the stubborn mule doing the pushing won't back down or head to the pub to grab a beer. Shameful.🙏 🤣



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFAAD_ZP1TU

Please, do me a favor and explain exactly how Hamilton isn't at fault while Webber is. I'm dying to know so I can learn how to be just as "super objective" as you.🙏