United States GP - Sep 26, 2010

Joshua Newman2 said:Did you even bother reading what I wrote above? 😁
Aside from the fact that I’m willing to admit my stance on this specific incident isn't set in stone, the way you're lecturing me about being "unrealistic" is nothing short of tragicomic.

So it's fine to call me unrealistic, but it's not okay to say you and Pangloss are unrealistic? 🙏

Fine. If that's some universal law of the cosmos, I'll stick to it from now on.👍

Honestly, I'm done. I feel like I might just permanently ban myself at this point. I have zero desire to argue with any of you anymore.😢

Mark Ruiz8 said:If you ask me, it was just a racing incident—maybe.
If I had to point a finger at someone—maybe—it would be Mark Webber.

You should have stopped after that first sentence.

A racing incident? Both were at fault.
Webber was driving like a bull, forcing the issue, while Lewis could have easily given him more room.

It was just two stubborn drivers meeting on a narrow bridge.

Amanda Kelly said:

nimblesurfer17 As specified by:
No, Hamilton is the one to blame here. He didn't leave enough room in the corner for Webber to make his move. It’s that simple. Anyway, does anyone know if Hamilton actually said anything about it after the race? 🤷

This is basically everything that matters from the McLaren side (Michael Witmarsh):

Look, I don't think Lewis did anything wrong here. I’m really not interested in playing the blame game, but honestly? That was a solid move. When you go for an overtake, there's always going to be some level of risk if the other driver refuses to give you any breathing room. But this wasn't some desperate, late-braking lunging stunt. He pulled ahead on the straight and he was already in front before he even hit the corner.

He figured he could hold his line, you know? He left some room for Mark, but I think Mark committed way too late and just couldn't make the inside pass work. Instead, he slammed into Lewis. Honestly, Mark got incredibly lucky to escape any real trouble, while Lewis just had a run of bad luck. There’s zero blame on Lewis for how things went down today.

If you check the car positions heading into that turn and compare it to what went down at Monza, you could basically flip Lewis's position on its head. Last time around, everyone jumped on him, but we can't pin it on him this time. At the end of the day, they're both just professional racing drivers.

If he’d actually attempted to dive down the inside by braking late just to force an overtake, we’d have every right to be disappointed in him.Look, the bottom line is he made the move. He was already ahead when they hit that corner, which means he earned the right to pick his line. Usually, if you're the one trailing him, you just have to deal with it and accept the situation..

"He had the opening, but he didn't commit to it. He hesitated, missed his chance, and ended up wrecking the car. Typical.Look, I don't see much point in throwing Mark under the bus. Did Lewis mess up his line or his execution? In my book, he didn't.

At the end, Michael Witmarsh says blaming Webber is pointless. Sure. As if that changes anything. Typical.
So, it's pretty obvious who they're pointing the finger at.

Personally, I find this super interesting. The incident is almost identical to the one in Turkey where Mark stubbornly holds his line—except this time, Lewis actually had a chance to leave him room. Vettel didn't. All he could do was brake, and even then, both of them were already practically past him.

Funny how MW was blaming Vettel before.

And regarding Massa doing the exact same thing to Lewis that Lewis did to Mark... there’s barely a difference. Except for one tiny detail: Massa wasn't chasing Lewis; he was in front, attacking Fernando Alonso. It makes perfect sense for him to focus on what Alonso is doing instead of looking in the rearview mirror to see if someone is about to slam into him.

That's the small distinction. Lewis didn't have much else to look at besides keeping track of Mark, and that's the one thing he failed to do.

stormybadger8 said:So it's fine to call me unrealistic, but it's not okay to say you and Pangloss are unrealistic? 🙏

Fine. If that's some universal law of the cosmos, I'll stick to it from now on.👍

Honestly, I'm done. I feel like I might just permanently ban myself at this point. I have zero desire to argue with any of you anymore.😢

Don't get worked up. I'm just saying there's no reason to accuse me of bias here. Sure, regarding the Vettel-Webber incident, I was biased—and perhaps less than objective—simply because I prefer Mark Webber over Sebastian Vettel. But in this instance, we're talking about Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton, and frankly, almost everyone is more likable than Hamilton. There is zero chance I'd take his side unless I truly believe (as I do here) that he isn't at fault. So, while I might be wrong about the collision itself, I am not being biased toward a favorite. If you look at my fan predictions for the tournament, you'll see I have Mark Webber ranked ten spots ahead of Lewis Hamilton.

Jason Campbell70 said:You should have stopped after that first sentence.

A racing incident? Both were at fault.
Webber was driving like a bull, forcing the issue, while Lewis could have easily given him more room.

It was just two stubborn drivers meeting on a narrow bridge.

Webber is an idiot.

Mark Ruiz8 said:If you ask me, it was just a racing incident—maybe.
If I had to point a finger at someone—maybe—it would be Mark Webber.

Obviously it's a racing incident. My take? Here it is:
Webber's at fault because he's stubborn and won't back down to prove a point.
Hamilton's at fault because he isn't watching where he's going or what he—or the guys around him—are actually doing.

In my book, Webber isn't any more to blame than Hamilton, no matter how much I'd love to see him get slapped with a penalty. Personally, I don't like the guy and I'm definitely not a fan, but in this specific situation, he's clearly less at fault.🤷

stormybadger8 said:Personally, I find this super interesting. The incident is almost identical to the one in Turkey where Mark stubbornly holds his line—except this time, Lewis actually had a chance to leave him room. Vettel didn't. All he could do was brake, and even then, both of them were already practically past him.

Funny how MW was blaming Vettel before.

And regarding Massa doing the exact same thing to Lewis that Lewis did to Mark... there’s barely a difference. Except for one tiny detail: Massa wasn't chasing Lewis; he was in front, attacking Fernando Alonso. It makes perfect sense for him to focus on what Alonso is doing instead of looking in the rearview mirror to see if someone is about to slam into him.

That's the small distinction. Lewis didn't have much else to look at besides keeping track of Mark, and that's the one thing he failed to do.

Exactly.
Lewis said he thought the overtake was already done, wrapped up. He clearly expected Mark Webber to back off just enough to let him through. And as for not seeing him? It was a blind spot. I believe him.

But honestly, after moves like that, Mark Webber has basically built himself an invisible shield. Everyone’s going to think twice before messing with him on the track now.

stormybadger8 said:Obviously it's a racing incident. My take? Here it is:
Webber's at fault because he's stubborn and won't back down to prove a point.
Hamilton's at fault because he isn't watching where he's going or what he—or the guys around him—are actually doing.

In my book, Webber isn't any more to blame than Hamilton, no matter how much I'd love to see him get slapped with a penalty. Personally, I don't like the guy and I'm definitely not a fan, but in this specific situation, he's clearly less at fault.🤷

Honestly, wouldn't it have been fairer if they both just pulled out? Given the damage from that collision, maybe they should have just retired.

There’s really no point in us arguing over who’s at fault here or who might have gained an unfair advantage. Is Lewis Hamilton guilty? I doubt it. 😁And maybe they both could actually learn a thing or two for next time.

Honestly? They wouldn't learn a damn thing. 😁

Jason Campbell70 said:Honestly, wouldn't it have been fairer if they both just pulled out? Given the damage from that collision, maybe they should have just retired.

There’s really no point in us arguing over who’s at fault here or who might have gained an unfair advantage. Is Lewis Hamilton guilty? I doubt it. 😁And maybe they both could actually learn a thing or two for next time.

Honestly? They wouldn't learn a damn thing. 😁

If that had happened, it would have been amazing.😬

Man, if Buton finished 3rd and Webber just quit, I’d be the happiest guy on earth.🤣

A championship win practically handed to us, and instead, we get this crap.😢

Webber screwed me over, and here I am defending him. I must be out of my mind.🤣

Amanda Kelly said:Exactly.
Lewis said he thought the overtake was already done, wrapped up. He clearly expected Mark Webber to back off just enough to let him through. And as for not seeing him? It was a blind spot. I believe him.

But honestly, after moves like that, Mark Webber has basically built himself an invisible shield. Everyone’s going to think twice before messing with him on the track now.

👍

I don't know, there have been plenty of arguments thrown around regarding this situation, and I’ve gone back and watched it several times now.

Mark Webber maintains a pretty consistent line the whole time—he’s on the flat part, enters the corner on the inside, and looking at his trajectory through the turn, he could have easily cleared it with enough room for two cars to pass him on the right side.

Lewis Hamilton, on the other hand, is about half a car ahead on the straight, enters the corner on the outside, and then decides to close the door on Webber. That’s actually my biggest question... why didn't he just take the corner normally? He had the space, and he definitely would have stayed ahead.🤷

Since Webber was driving like nothing was happening, sticking to his inside line, while Lewis went out of his way to close him out, I’d say Lewis is more "responsible" for this collision. Not even close to being the one at fault...

And honestly, Webber seems less responsible here than he was in that collision with Sebastian Vettel. In this case, he sticks to his line and leaves a massive amount of room for Hamilton, he simply refuses to yield because he's fighting for the title! In the incident with Sebastian Vettel, he doesn't leave any room, pushes Sebastian Vettel aside, and then when he thinks Webber is going to move, he swerves hard into him.

Ultimately, this is just a racing incident between two stubborn drivers who refused to budge from their intentions—Webber refusing to give up an inch, and Lewis trying to slam the door before he’d even fully overtaken Webber with his entire car.

Though, of course, the Australian was lucky to walk away from that hit unscathed!

Amanda Kelly said:Exactly.
Lewis said he thought the overtake was already done, wrapped up. He clearly expected Mark Webber to back off just enough to let him through. And as for not seeing him? It was a blind spot. I believe him.

But honestly, after moves like that, Mark Webber has basically built himself an invisible shield. Everyone’s going to think twice before messing with him on the track now.

You know that old saying, "Who gives a damn?" 😬

Look, they haven't been there since yesterday. There's nothing to overthink here—you just have to watch your step. You can't go tearing around the track like you're the only person on the planet.🤷

I mean, that move where he dives right for the edge looks absolutely ridiculous to me. That’s not a normal way to take a corner; he was clearly just trying to squeeze him out. What was he actually thinking? It's like he thought he could just pull some nonsense and Mark Webber would simply back off and let him through. Well, newsflash: it didn't work. End of story.

Mark Webber had some insane luck this time around. As for Lewis Hamilton, he’s just having his usual run—honestly, after those last two races where everything that could possibly go wrong did, he probably used up all his luck at Spa-Francorchamps.🤷

nimblesurfer17 said:No, Hamilton is to blame because he didn't leave enough room in the corner for Webber to make the pass... though, I am curious, did Hamilton say anything after the race was over? 🤷
And yeah, you really have to account for the "mental state" and the sheer personality of the drivers you're battling against... that's honestly one of the most critical factors. It's just not the same experience when you're squaring off against Jenson Button or Felipe Massa versus facing off against Grandpa or Webber. Lewis really should have picked up on those personality traits by now—he would have realized that this move might fly with most of the current Formula 1 grid, but certainly not with Webber, especially not with him in his current position... it's like that old saying, "don't pick a fight with a bull." 😁 The real crux of this whole thing is that Webber isn't "crazy" in the sense that he's pulling stunts like Schumacher against Jacques Villeneuve; rather, he's "crazy" because he refuses to play it safe or back down where other drivers might flinch when faced with the presence of someone like Hamilton, Alonso, or Sebastian Vettel.

Look, I reacted (maybe a bit too much) because it felt like you were leaning way too hard on Mark Webber's personality to either justify his actions or shift the blame away from Lewis. I wasn't trying to pin the whole accident on Mark. In my book, we should be talking about the actual physics of the crash first, and then deal with the psychological stuff later.

wearygull20 said:I don't know, there have been plenty of arguments thrown around regarding this situation, and I’ve gone back and watched it several times now.

Mark Webber maintains a pretty consistent line the whole time—he’s on the flat part, enters the corner on the inside, and looking at his trajectory through the turn, he could have easily cleared it with enough room for two cars to pass him on the right side.

Lewis Hamilton, on the other hand, is about half a car ahead on the straight, enters the corner on the outside, and then decides to close the door on Webber. That’s actually my biggest question... why didn't he just take the corner normally? He had the space, and he definitely would have stayed ahead.🤷

Since Webber was driving like nothing was happening, sticking to his inside line, while Lewis went out of his way to close him out, I’d say Lewis is more "responsible" for this collision. Not even close to being the one at fault...

And honestly, Webber seems less responsible here than he was in that collision with Sebastian Vettel. In this case, he sticks to his line and leaves a massive amount of room for Hamilton, he simply refuses to yield because he's fighting for the title! In the incident with Sebastian Vettel, he doesn't leave any room, pushes Sebastian Vettel aside, and then when he thinks Webber is going to move, he swerves hard into him.

Ultimately, this is just a racing incident between two stubborn drivers who refused to budge from their intentions—Webber refusing to give up an inch, and Lewis trying to slam the door before he’d even fully overtaken Webber with his entire car.

Though, of course, the Australian was lucky to walk away from that hit unscathed!

He took the ideal racing line.

Unlike Webber, who went off the curb in an attempt to dive back in front after already losing the position.

Paul Collins13 said:Joža's calling the shots, so I'm just here typing. Don't go getting mad at me if I mess something up by accident, okay?

say Joža:

You really let me down there. Honestly, you've fallen pretty low in my eyes—maybe even basement level low. But whatever, I won't make this personal anymore, because deep down, I still respect you... assuming you actually read anything.

Look, if you think about it, today's drivers don't mess around with death nearly as much. They don't have grease under their fingernails from tinkering with engines anymore, and they aren't accidentally shifting into neutral mid-race, but I guess they're still more advanced than the guys from back in the day. Today's drivers are total idiots, and honestly, idiots are at their best when it comes to being idiots—well, only when it’s specifically about their own idiocy. But hey, that's what we're talking about here, right?

There’s a big difference between being a great driver and just being a solid human being. Take A. J. Foyt, for example. He won his race on Sunday, then spent Monday dropping his grandson off at kindergarten. By Monday afternoon, he was already teaching the kid how to use a screwdriver and a wrench. On Tuesday, he was back in the garage working on his NASCAR build, and by Wednesday, he was out on the tractor fixing the hydraulics. Then on Thursday, he was giving George Snider some pointers on how to actually understand racing mechanics, and by Friday, he was already headed out to Milwaukee. That was just A. J. Foyt for you.

Sebastian Vettel wins the race on Sunday, then spends all Monday glued to the simulator to make up for lost testing time. Tuesday? Back in the simulator. Wednesday, Thursday—you get the idea, he’s basically living in that sim. Then he finally heads home, everything's all set and taken care of, gets some fresh clothes, catches some sleep, and just repeats the whole cycle back at Red Bull Racing. Just life as it goes, I guess.

I guess Sebastian Vettel is technically a better driver than A. J. Foyt. I mean, obviously, since his entire life has been centered around driving race cars. But honestly? Sebastian Vettel is just a total jerk. Foyt was a real man, you know? That’s just how it is. You can see that whole "idiot" vibe with modern drivers best when you look at Michael Schumacher. Even the Regenmeister 1.02 seemed like a lost soul after leaving Formula 1, like he was totally adrift and had no idea what to do with himself. Well, I guess it makes sense since he didn't really know how to do anything besides lap a track. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you don't even know how to exist on your own. You feel me?

So, we kind of end up at this conclusion where Button—who’s basically got that smooth, cerebral style—is actually better than Prost. It feels like just a simple evolution of talent. I mean, how can you even claim he lacks raw speed? If that's the case, what was Prost actually missing? That's just how these drivers work. Button is like Prost 1.02, whereas some guy driving a Toro Rosso will probably be Prost 1.03. I guess every new generation just produces better drivers.

Alonso was already crushing it in F3000 back in '99 when he was only 19—that's basically the F1 feeder series. It makes sense, though. These drivers today start in karting and just get sucked into this endless loop of perfecting their craft. It lasts until the end of their careers, or at least until they hit their mid-career slump in F1 when the motivation and discipline start to slip. Maybe like Kimi Raikkonen.

How can you even call Kimi undisciplined? I mean, getting into Formula 1 at 21 with Peter Sauber's team while Max Mosley is breathing down your neck trying to snatch your super license... could any driver really afford to be undisciplined under those conditions? Not a chance. Kimi used to be a super disciplined driver. Maybe until about 2006—then fame just went to his head and things started sliding. But that doesn't take away from his 2007 title, which honestly feels like he’s just collecting on the one he missed out on in 2003. That's my take.

It’s not a drop in driving skill, it’s more like a drop in character. I guess today's drivers are all just corporate puppets—totally hollow inside—but maybe that's what we're talking about here. You said Mark Webber lacks guts, but stormyviper11, did you know Webber is actually the only driver who truly looks out for others? He just organized a fundraiser for that poor guy who had the accident at Brands Hatch. Webber cares about his peers, kind of like how Stewart used to, though back then Stewart was probably more focused on looking after widows than the drivers themselves. Webber is basically Stewart 1.03.

What kind of "drop in quality" are you even talking about? What about Niki Lauda—a driver you admitted didn't have raw talent and had to make up for it with sheer grit? And yet you say Jenson Button lacks pace. Well, what was Lauda missing in '84 if not pace? Titles aren't won on pure speed alone, I thought you knew that, stormyviper11. If Button wins his title in 2010, it’ll definitely be way stronger than Lauda’s '84 run. Lauda had a dominant car and maybe one rival. Button is sitting in the third fastest car with four people to beat. Oh boy, stormyviper11.

Who else were you pointing fingers at? Oh yeah, Lewis Hamilton? Hamilton, much like his predecessor Senna, is just a headless gambler, a Regenmeister 1.01. But then again, Hamilton is still a better driver, Senna 1.02—that win at Spa was incredible.
Besides, if this is a decline in quality, which drivers *should* have won titles so the list of champions doesn't look like a downward slide? Maybe DC from 2000-2004? Or Montoya? Or Kimi—who’s already been labeled a decline in quality.
What about Fisichella or Kimi in 2005? Michael Schumacher in 2006? Alonso in 2007? Hamilton is also labeled a decline in quality too. Then there's Massa in 2008—give me a break, "Federvugla" world champion? And Vettel in 2009?

If that's the case, then the whole field is questionable. And not just today's guys, the entire history of the sport becomes suspect. Everything from now back to the original Regenmeister Rudolf Caracciola or the Nebelmeister Rosemeyer. Or is Caracciola the Nebelmeister and Rosemeyer the Regenmeister? Someone local tell me, since they'd know.

It’s not even debatable that the sheer idiocy of starting karting at age three or four makes today's drivers better than any previous generation. That’s just natural evolution in any pro sport. Anyone with half a brain knows that guys like Pelé, Maradona, or Dražen Petrović wouldn't even be able to touch a ball today, let alone play with it. But no sane person would claim that legends of the past sit far below today's elite on an all-time list, because greatness involves other factors. Eras of dominance, total titles, wins, how much they squeezed out of a mediocre car...

By those metrics, Michael Schumacher is one of the greatest Formula 1 drivers ever, whether I personally like him or not. Based on that criteria—strictly speaking—these six are pretty much ranked in the order mentioned. Jenson Button has had three great seasons, and this is his fourth, though he’s had some slumps and dips. He wasn't like Alonso, extracting every ounce of performance from a subpar car—Rubens was arguably more consistent during those rough Honda years. Does he lack pace? Compared to Lewis Hamilton, yeah, both in qualifying and in the race.

Was Kimi a top-tier professional? For the most part, yeah. I don't think you can survive in modern Formula 1 without it, but I still think his personality cost him more wins and maybe even titles. Compared to other elite drivers over the last decade, Kimi fell behind when it came to professional approach and self-motivation. And yeah, he was definitely less disciplined. No doubt about it, he was a faster driver than Michael Schumacher in 2003. So was Montoya. They probably both had better cars too—but the title went to Schumacher because championships, like you said, are won through other qualities, not just raw speed.

And if the whole field after Rosemeyer is 😍 questionable, I guess I can see your point. Balls, guts, speed, presence—Rosemeyer had everything it took to become the Greatest if he'd just added some brains and experience. But hey, a crosswind between Frankfurt and Darmstadt at 249 miles/h can be a real bitch...😢

stormybadger8 said:Quote:>

Keith Rodriguez27 says: So, basically, Hamilton is at fault because Webber is just "crazy" by nature—especially since he's leading the championship right now—and decides to charge head-first into a wall, which means Lewis should have known better and just let him through? 😕 First off, I think we're way too quick to label Webber as some "madman" driver during on-track duels. Second, that logic assumes his behavior is somehow normal (😕) and that every other driver should just adapt to it. In my book, that logic works if we're talking about how much damage Lewis took by letting Webber past, but when we're debating who actually caused the crash? Not a chance. Seriously, at this rate, we might as well just declare him unpredictable and ban him from racing entirely before he actually kills someone on the track. 🤷>

because 😕

I honestly think you guys and even Joshua Newman27 are being insanely unrealistic. What's your problem? Should everyone just brake and wiggle out of the racing line like Jenson Button whenever Hamilton shows up to push someone around? 🙄>

Look at what Hamilton is doing in that clip. He dives into the corner like a maniac, trying to force his way in. What was Webber supposed to do? Just slam on the brakes or swerve off the track? What is wrong with you people? 😕>

I don't get why you're all coming for me. This isn't even a fair argument. 😵>

I'm standing up for Webber here 🤦 ,and it's honestly unbelievable. 🤣>

Who’s even talking about what? TBF, we're all just living in a total delusion. ☕

What is wrong with you people? Seriously. Everyone needs to just get out of the way and stop swerving all over the track like Jenson Button when Lewis Hamilton comes charging through. If you can't hold your line, stay off the damn racing surface. It’s simple: if someone is pushing, move. Stop the constant shoving and the amateur hour nonsense. Just clear out.🙄

Look, from where I’m sitting, Lewis Hamilton clearly had the line before he even hit the turn in front of Mark Webber. It wasn't like a massive gap or anything, but it was enough. He owned that space, which means he gets to pick his line. Period.

What the hell is Lewis Hamilton doing in this clip? He’s diving into that corner like a total maniac, just forcing his way in and trying to muscle people out. I mean, what's Mark Webber supposed to do? Just crap himself and slam on the brakes? Or should he just pull off the track entirely? Seriously, what is wrong with you people?😕

Look, Lewis Hamilton might leave me a bit more breathing room, I'll give him that, but there's no way he's hitting the corner like that. No shot.

It felt like history repeating itself right after that whole Webber-Hamilton mess... when Kubica was absolutely flying on those fresh tires, leaving everyone in his dust. He ended up caught in that exact same corner, facing the same dilemma Hamilton did. I can't quite recall who he was overtaking at that moment, but the guy just squeezed him out. It was identical—Kubica had half his car alongside him, just like Hamilton had half his car ahead of Webber. Look, I’m not usually one to call for penalties, but I honestly think if anyone else had pulled that move, they would've been penalized for sure.

Keith Rodriguez27 said:Who’s even talking about what? TBF, we're all just living in a total delusion. ☕

What is wrong with you people? Seriously. Everyone needs to just get out of the way and stop swerving all over the track like Jenson Button when Lewis Hamilton comes charging through. If you can't hold your line, stay off the damn racing surface. It’s simple: if someone is pushing, move. Stop the constant shoving and the amateur hour nonsense. Just clear out.🙄

Look, from where I’m sitting, Lewis Hamilton clearly had the line before he even hit the turn in front of Mark Webber. It wasn't like a massive gap or anything, but it was enough. He owned that space, which means he gets to pick his line. Period.

What the hell is Lewis Hamilton doing in this clip? He’s diving into that corner like a total maniac, just forcing his way in and trying to muscle people out. I mean, what's Mark Webber supposed to do? Just crap himself and slam on the brakes? Or should he just pull off the track entirely? Seriously, what is wrong with you people?😕

Look, Lewis Hamilton might leave me a bit more breathing room, I'll give him that, but there's no way he's hitting the corner like that. No shot.

Oh, so he has the right? Then why doesn't Vettel, who’s basically the same length ahead of Webber at the entry, get to choose his line? 🤷

What kind of logic is this? Does it change just because the turn is left or right? 🤷

I honestly don't get why Lewis Hamilton gets that privilege while Vettel doesn't in a nearly identical situation. 🤷

Keith Rodriguez27 said:Look, I reacted (maybe a bit too much) because it felt like you were leaning way too hard on Mark Webber's personality to either justify his actions or shift the blame away from Lewis. I wasn't trying to pin the whole accident on Mark. In my book, we should be talking about the actual physics of the crash first, and then deal with the psychological stuff later.

Honestly, I said it from the jump—that was nothing more than a pure racing incident.
Look, when you're playing a game of "chicken," it really pays to know exactly who you're staring down—because everyone has their own style. Some people blink early, some hold out until the very last second, and then there are those folks who just won't budge at all.😁
I honestly wouldn't have even considered making a move like that—not if we're talking about Webber. If it were Mass, I might have pulled the trigger, and he probably would have gotten away with it too. But with Webber? It’s almost a guarantee you'll pay for it. It really comes down to that whole concept of "racing intelligence" that stormyviper11 was bringing up earlier.

Jason Campbell70 said:He took the ideal racing line.

Unlike Webber, who went off the curb in an attempt to dive back in front after already losing the position.

At the exact moment Lewis Hamilton made his move to turn in—essentially trying to close the door—his car was positioned right there, somewhere between his front wheels and the sidepod air intakes on Hamilton's car. Because of that positioning, you can't really lean on that "fifty-fifty" argument—it just doesn't hold water when you're looking at it from Hamilton's perspective. 🤷 We could always flip the script and argue that Webber was actually the one making the move on Lewis Hamilton—and since he’d already gotten halfway alongside Lewis's car, Lewis really didn't have much choice but to give him the room!
I really think Lewis Hamilton should have just given Mark Webber the space he needed to make the move—after all, he wasn't actually ahead of him at that exact moment. On the flip side, Webber was forced onto the curb because there simply wasn't any more room left on the track. It was one of those split-second calls where things just get incredibly tight!
Like I mentioned before—if Lewis had handled things the way Jenson Button did with him during the Grand Prix of Turkey—that whole mess wouldn't have happened at all. Honestly, I think Lewis Hamilton would have cleared Mark Webber regardless.

Keith Rodriguez27 said:Who’s even talking about what? TBF, we're all just living in a total delusion. ☕

What is wrong with you people? Seriously. Everyone needs to just get out of the way and stop swerving all over the track like Jenson Button when Lewis Hamilton comes charging through. If you can't hold your line, stay off the damn racing surface. It’s simple: if someone is pushing, move. Stop the constant shoving and the amateur hour nonsense. Just clear out.🙄

Look, from where I’m sitting, Lewis Hamilton clearly had the line before he even hit the turn in front of Mark Webber. It wasn't like a massive gap or anything, but it was enough. He owned that space, which means he gets to pick his line. Period.

What the hell is Lewis Hamilton doing in this clip? He’s diving into that corner like a total maniac, just forcing his way in and trying to muscle people out. I mean, what's Mark Webber supposed to do? Just crap himself and slam on the brakes? Or should he just pull off the track entirely? Seriously, what is wrong with you people?😕

Look, Lewis Hamilton might leave me a bit more breathing room, I'll give him that, but there's no way he's hitting the corner like that. No shot.

Since he was ahead at that point, Lewis Hamilton really didn't have any choice in which line to take—he was essentially locked into his path.

placidsurfer9 said:It felt like history repeating itself right after that whole Webber-Hamilton mess... when Kubica was absolutely flying on those fresh tires, leaving everyone in his dust. He ended up caught in that exact same corner, facing the same dilemma Hamilton did. I can't quite recall who he was overtaking at that moment, but the guy just squeezed him out. It was identical—Kubica had half his car alongside him, just like Hamilton had half his car ahead of Webber. Look, I’m not usually one to call for penalties, but I honestly think if anyone else had pulled that move, they would've been penalized for sure.

as I mentioned before, Lewis Hamilton wasn't actually halfway past Webber at the moment he turned in..
and the fact that someone moved for Kubica just means that person made a split-second call that it was better to move—maybe they figured Kubica would clear them in the next corner or lap, or perhaps they simply didn't have the cojones to hold their line, which they had every right to do.🤷 that doesn't mean Webber made a mistake... if a collision had happened there too, I'm certain we'd all just be calling it a "racing incident."

stormyviper11 said:Look, for me, soccer perfection—or as close as it gets—was that 1994 US National Team run where they made it to the finals while only letting opponents get shots on goal maybe seven or eight times total over six matches... and most of those were desperate long-range shots. Watching a perfect defense was way more satisfying to me than those high-scoring blowouts. It's that same appreciation for tactics and flawless execution that makes me enjoy marathons, biathlons, and other long-winded sports that most people find boring. It's a matter of taste... and honestly, it usually comes with age. When I was younger, I didn't give a damn about those judges scoring ski jumps, but nowadays, whenever I'm watching at Planica, the style matters just as much to me as the distance...

Anyway, back to the point: Alonso had major issues with the car sliding around during the lap when the safety car heads to the pits for the second time this season. In Monaco, I was convinced it was just him being careless, but after seeing it happen again, I'm starting to think it might actually be the car. Does anyone know if there's been anything mentioned about Ferrari having trouble maintaining tire temperatures in those specific situations?

The first instance isn't really a fair comparison because in Monaco, he was running on the same set of tires for almost the entire race, and that slide was largely a byproduct of not actually racing. He instinctively went too heavy on the throttle the moment he saw Michael in his rearview mirror. Therefore, the Singapore incident stands alone, and he likely just miscalculated there. It’s never easy staying composed when you're under constant pressure from Red Bull Racing for the duration of a race.

With Formula 1; Who do you feel was most to blame for Hamilton and Webber's collision in Singapore?

Lewis Hamilton 32.75%
Mark Webber 34.72%
Fifty-fifty 32.52%