United States GP - Sep 26, 2010

Let's be honest here: they showed up for the money, not because of Michael Schumacher, Jean Todt, or anyone else. Ferrari has always been able to bring the biggest check to the table, and they always will.

Jonathan Booth5 said:Let's be honest here: they showed up for the money, not because of Michael Schumacher, Jean Todt, or anyone else. Ferrari has always been able to bring the biggest check to the table, and they always will.

I disagree—Ross Brawn was actually looking at a deal with McLaren. In the end, it wasn't about the money; it was really about his desire to finish what they started back at Benetton with Michael Schumacher.

Don't forget that back then, Ferrari was a much bigger professional beast to tackle. They had to break that whole curse of not winning titles and actually prove it could be done.
And I honestly don't doubt for a second that Ross Brawn knew exactly what he was getting into regarding the legacy and the sheer scale of the challenge, unlike that little amateur from Kerpen who, shortly after, stood on the podium and publicly wondered if that was even Ferrari's first double victory...
He was only lured into Maranello by the paycheck, and his entourage probably had their own agendas too...

The absolute worst part is how people imagine it went down; they think Michael Schumacher just woke up one morning and decided, "Who am I kidding, why am I even bothering with Benetton?" He supposedly grabbed Ross Brawn and Brawn's associate under one arm, took them by the hand, and marched straight to Maranello. They picture him knocking on the door and saying, "Open up the gates to the estate, it's me and my crew of experts." As if we could just fix decades of accumulated problems overnight. That’s exactly how people visualize Michael Schumacher leaving for Ferrari.

It’s just not realistic. It's not like Lewis Hamilton woke up one day and declared he needed the best boss, the best driver, the best strategist, the best designer, and a V10 all at once. That simply isn't how things work. But sure, let's pretend Michael Schumacher just woke up and made it happen. Yeah, right.

silvercobra68 said:The absolute worst part is how people imagine it went down; they think Michael Schumacher just woke up one morning and decided, "Who am I kidding, why am I even bothering with Benetton?" He supposedly grabbed Ross Brawn and Brawn's associate under one arm, took them by the hand, and marched straight to Maranello. They picture him knocking on the door and saying, "Open up the gates to the estate, it's me and my crew of experts." As if we could just fix decades of accumulated problems overnight. That’s exactly how people visualize Michael Schumacher leaving for Ferrari.

It’s just not realistic. It's not like Lewis Hamilton woke up one day and declared he needed the best boss, the best driver, the best strategist, the best designer, and a V10 all at once. That simply isn't how things work. But sure, let's pretend Michael Schumacher just woke up and made it happen. Yeah, right.

Of course it wasn't like that. He went after the money and he knew exactly what kind of car he’d be sitting in the following season. But honestly, he made the most of everything, and nobody can deny that... He put himself in that position, and he's the reason why—especially those who hate him—people end up micromanaging things within the team. I mean, no other driver has ever earned that level of trust from their team... but whatever, the whole Schumacher saga is its own thing and probably doesn't belong here...

placidsurfer9 said:Of course it wasn't like that. He went after the money and he knew exactly what kind of car he’d be sitting in the following season. But honestly, he made the most of everything, and nobody can deny that... He put himself in that position, and he's the reason why—especially those who hate him—people end up micromanaging things within the team. I mean, no other driver has ever earned that level of trust from their team... but whatever, the whole Schumacher saga is its own thing and probably doesn't belong here...

aaaaaaaaaaa

You don't get it at all. Absolutely nothing.

what kind of car he'll be driving next season —I'm not even talking about the car, I'm talking about the personnel, for crying out loud.

Quite a few Ferrari fans would love to see Luca di Montezemolo exit the organization, yet they seem blissfully unaware of what he actually achieved for Ferrari back in the early 90s. Back then, Ferrari was struggling as a car manufacturer, and the Formula 1 team was in total disarray—not to mention how Fiat stepped in to pull the whole operation out of its slump. He brought in Jean Todt, who I personally believe deserves most of the credit for restoring the team to its former glory. Of course, Ross Brawn, Michael Schumacher, and the rest played their parts, and everyone contributed, but in my view, Jean Todt was the primary architect, managing them all with precision.
Montezemolo was actually part of the Ferrari inner circle during the 70s when Lauda was dominating, and that certainly wasn't by accident.

Regarding Nebelmeister, I’d like to see stormyviper11 make an effort to write a few sentences about him. It sounded like he mentioned him being his favorite driver, and since he's a decent writer, it could turn into a rather compelling piece.

silvercobra68 said:aaaaaaaaaaa

You don't get it at all. Absolutely nothing.

what kind of car he'll be driving next season —I'm not even talking about the car, I'm talking about the personnel, for crying out loud.

Look, I'm trying to explain that I don't see him as this total nutcase you're making him out to be. I've been a fan from day one! I guess the big money and the massive Ferrari name probably pulled him in, but everything else just happened step by step. With his knack for making things actually work and his driving talent, it all turned out to be a huge win.

silvercobra68 said:aaaaaaaaaaa

You don't get it at all. Absolutely nothing.

what kind of car he'll be driving next season —I'm not even talking about the car, I'm talking about the personnel, for crying out loud.

Look, I am talking about the car. Back in 1995, Ferrari had one win and ten podiums. They were convincingly the third-best team, trailing quite a bit behind the top two, but every single one of their drivers scored more points individually than the fourth-place team did in total. So, jumping from being part of the top tier to becoming the third-string team is basically the exact same thing as Button's move from Brawn to McLaren this year... which isn't exactly being viewed as some insane move for a champion at his peak just looking for a new challenge...

And how people see Ferrari today before the arrival of the savior is like they were sitting at the bottom of the grid barely making it out of qualifying... ☕ Fundamentally speaking, things had already started falling into place after that rough start to the decade, and they just needed to keep that upward momentum going. If they had someone else as their lead driver, they probably would have pulled off a win every now and then, almost certainly, but the real question is whether they could actually turn that into a consistent thing.

stormyviper11 said:Look, I am talking about the car. Back in 1995, Ferrari had one win and ten podiums. They were convincingly the third-best team, trailing quite a bit behind the top two, but every single one of their drivers scored more points individually than the fourth-place team did in total. So, jumping from being part of the top tier to becoming the third-string team is basically the exact same thing as Button's move from Brawn to McLaren this year... which isn't exactly being viewed as some insane move for a champion at his peak just looking for a new challenge...

And how people see Ferrari today before the arrival of the savior is like they were sitting at the bottom of the grid barely making it out of qualifying... ☕ Fundamentally speaking, things had already started falling into place after that rough start to the decade, and they just needed to keep that upward momentum going. If they had someone else as their lead driver, they probably would have pulled off a win every now and then, almost certainly, but the real question is whether they could actually turn that into a consistent thing.

I can't quite agree there. Some people are just natural leaders—true authorities who can squeeze the absolute maximum out of a crew without even having to ask—and Michael Schumacher was exactly that kind of person.

Alonso doesn't have it, Kimi is even further off, and Hamilton is just cocky—nothing more.

wiredtiger8 said:You've got it wrong.
What "preferential treatment" are you talking about regarding Michael Schumacher? Others didn't get that either.
Other drivers could put in millions of kilometers and test from dawn till dusk—sleeping in the car, then hitting the gym for a few hours... every single day. But they didn't.
Honestly, nobody worked as hard in Formula 1 before Michael Schumacher.
So what now?
All that effort finally paid off at the end of his career...
And now people want to devalue all that work and those millions upon millions of testing kilometers. I guess we’re following that logic where hard work isn't appreciated... or maybe that old saying about how the man who works the hardest just gets more chores.
Your stance surprises me... you should at least recognize the value of hard work and total dedication to a profession (at least, that's my impression from your posts so far).
And in the USA, hard work is supposed to count for something, right?

Well, he's actually right if you look at today's drivers.😳

Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, and everyone else can't just test day and night because the rules won't allow it.
Hell, you can't even be clearly labeled the number one driver from the start of the season anymore; the rules don't permit it.
You can't even implement certain technical ideas on the cars because the regulations block you.

Bottom line: the FIA completely screwed this up. If you think guys like Nick Heidfeld or Robert Kubica would have had four or five titles by now thanks to constant testing, nobody can say for sure because testing is banned.👎

And if you think it's not a problem, maybe BMW-Sauber or even Toyota would be the top teams today. Unfortunately, in modern Formula 1, hard work doesn't pay off much; it's all about shady deals and money moving through murky channels.👎
Winning championships doesn't necessarily mean you have world-class talent or work ethic; it mostly means the team is elite at playing games and finding loopholes.👎

Without all that maneuvering, Ross Brawn might not have been nearly as competitive. Who knows if the big names would even be Red Bull, McLaren, and Ferrari today. Maybe Robert Kubica at Renault or Nico Rosberg at Mercedes would be calling the shots. It's all up for debate when some people are allowed to push the limits while others are stuck working hard because they don't have a massive corporation and piles of cash backing them up.

silvercobra68 said:In case nobody noticed, I am debating stormyviper11 here, trying to dismantle his theory that it goes Schumacher > Alonso > Kimi > Hamilton.

To all the rest of you jumping in with "but Hamilton is younger" or "Kimi was just unlucky with the car"—please, I'm asking nicely, just stay out of this discussion. I promised Sepi I wouldn't get insulting anymore, but even I have my limits. Please, do me and Sepi a favor and give us some space. Thanks. God bless!

Are you actually going to answer the question?

@stormybadger8...
...look, I’m not even talking about how things look today—I’m comparing this to how the sport functioned about 15 years ago. Back then, everyone actually had the freedom to test whenever they damn well pleased, it wasn't just some exclusive privilege reserved for Michael Schumacher.
And honestly? No one else was putting in nearly as many hours as he was.
That’s my whole point right there.

By the way, if you ask me, this current testing ban is one of the absolute biggest pieces of nonsense we've seen... and I'm not just saying that because it happens to be inconvenient for Schumacher at the moment.

wiredtiger8 said:@stormybadger8...
...look, I’m not even talking about how things look today—I’m comparing this to how the sport functioned about 15 years ago. Back then, everyone actually had the freedom to test whenever they damn well pleased, it wasn't just some exclusive privilege reserved for Michael Schumacher.
And honestly? No one else was putting in nearly as many hours as he was.
That’s my whole point right there.

By the way, if you ask me, this current testing ban is one of the absolute biggest pieces of nonsense we've seen... and I'm not just saying that because it happens to be inconvenient for Schumacher at the moment.

As for that question, I think pretty much everyone—except maybe Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA—is going to agree that:

The engine development ban.
Testing ban.
Aerodynamics ban.

Absolute idiocy.🤦

There’s no debate here, none at all. I honestly don't get the logic. When you look at excuses like "reducing costs," it’s just ridiculous. These teams spend way more money developing insane gimmicks like the blown diffuser, F-duct, or those "flexible wings" than they ever would on anything sensible. Instead of building tech that actually makes sense or could even be used outside of Formula 1, they just obsess over pushing systems right to the edge of the rulebook. They only do it because it's the only thing they're allowed to do.👎

All in all, it's pure stupidity. This testing ban is one of the biggest jokes in the sport, and I'm not even talking about how much it might help Michael Schumacher—I’m not even sure it would actually make that much of a difference for him. The real issue is the young drivers. They’re being left with a massive deficit. How are you supposed to jump into a Formula 1 seat and actually perform when you haven't had a single chance to get used to the car? No driver can just master a machine overnight. To make matters worse, teams are incredibly impatient. It's way too easy for an incredible talent to crash and burn before they've even found their rhythm, because let's face it: no team is going to sit around waiting a season or two for a rookie to finally figure things out.🤷

So Burdais just gets booted from Formula 1 out of nowhere. Honestly, I’m convinced if they hadn't had that testing ban, he would've shown way more potential.😢

I think we can finally settle all those heated debates about who the greatest driver ever is with this one

This guy is the GOAT—ten times better than Senna, Prost, Michael Schumacher, and Fernando Alonso combined

Lionel Regal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATNfTWvM9c

silvercobra68 said:I think we can finally settle all those heated debates about who the greatest driver ever is with this one

This guy is the GOAT—ten times better than Senna, Prost, Michael Schumacher, and Fernando Alonso combined

Lionel Regal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATNfTWvM9c

For those of you unaware, Lionel Regal passed away two months ago after crashing his vehicle into a tree near 149 miles/h.😢

On a separate note, these Formula 1 drivers tackling mountain passes are truly remarkable; one would need immense courage to pilot such a high-performance machine through those kinds of roads. I have only ever seen them racing in small towns like Buzet where the track isn't nearly as demanding, yet even then, the spectacle remains absolutely fascinating.

Bird racing takes an insane amount of precision and skill, no doubt about it, but I’ll be honest... I respect those pilots just a hair less than oval track drivers because you just don't get that raw, door-to-door combat with other racers.

Solid race for Fernando. That bit between Webber and Lewis Hamilton was clearly just a racing incident, and honestly, I guess Lewis Hamilton got exactly what was coming to him

So, when are you actually going to start that new thread?😬

Come on, just open it already, please. 🙂

If you’re too lazy, Stinger can take over. He’s not half bad himself.😬

stormybadger8 said:So, when are you actually going to start that new thread?😬

Come on, just open it already, please. 🙂

If you’re too lazy, Stinger can take over. He’s not half bad himself.😬

I was actually just about to say that it's high time Michael Lee4 started a thread for Indianapolis Motor Speedway. 😁🙏