stormyviper11 said:It’s not even debatable that the sheer idiocy of starting karting at age three or four makes today's drivers better than any previous generation. That’s just natural evolution in any pro sport. Anyone with half a brain knows that guys like Pelé, Maradona, or Dražen Petrović wouldn't even be able to touch a ball today, let alone play with it. But no sane person would claim that legends of the past sit far below today's elite on an all-time list, because greatness involves other factors. Eras of dominance, total titles, wins, how much they squeezed out of a mediocre car...
By those metrics, Michael Schumacher is one of the greatest Formula 1 drivers ever, whether I personally like him or not. Based on that criteria—strictly speaking—these six are pretty much ranked in the order mentioned. Jenson Button has had three great seasons, and this is his fourth, though he’s had some slumps and dips. He wasn't like Alonso, extracting every ounce of performance from a subpar car—Rubens was arguably more consistent during those rough Honda years. Does he lack pace? Compared to Lewis Hamilton, yeah, both in qualifying and in the race.
Was Kimi a top-tier professional? For the most part, yeah. I don't think you can survive in modern Formula 1 without it, but I still think his personality cost him more wins and maybe even titles. Compared to other elite drivers over the last decade, Kimi fell behind when it came to professional approach and self-motivation. And yeah, he was definitely less disciplined. No doubt about it, he was a faster driver than Michael Schumacher in 2003. So was Montoya. They probably both had better cars too—but the title went to Schumacher because championships, like you said, are won through other qualities, not just raw speed.
And if the whole field after Rosemeyer is 😍 questionable, I guess I can see your point. Balls, guts, speed, presence—Rosemeyer had everything it took to become the Greatest if he'd just added some brains and experience. But hey, a crosswind between Frankfurt and Darmstadt at 249 miles/h can be a real bitch...😢
Let me disagree with you again, especially regarding Webber. You're saying Mark Webber has no brains? What do you mean by that? This season, he is perfectly demonstrating that he has both the brains and the speed, along with courage—not just bravado as you claim. Plus, he has the strongest mental game on the grid. Which driver could masterfully drive Silverstone after his team basically spat in his face? None. Mika Häkkinen was a composed driver with a strong head, but when things didn't go his way, he actually knew how to sit down and cry (like Monza '99). Webber doesn't sit there and cry; Webber breaks legs, gets back up, faces an entire team against him, and still wins races while fighting for a title. In terms of that kind of grit, only Piquet in '86 and '87 really compare—one win, one loss—just like Webber might if he takes it this year. Besides, he's the best of the five when it comes to damage control. Remember Alonso at Spa, when he should have been minimizing damage but instead spun out on his own (I'm not talking about the collision with Barrichello)? Or Silverstone—when he should have minimized damage, he inappropriately overtook Robert Kubica. If he wins the title, it will be because of Spa and Silverstone, not Turkey, Canada, or whatever else. In Canada, he lost two positions, but I'd rather lose two positions than have Lewis Hamilton run him over and both of them DNF. If he clinches it, it'll be thanks to Canada. As for Schumacher, whom you're citing as the best in this group, he's proving this year that the legend might be a myth. There aren't tires specially made for the German this year, no millions upon millions of kilometers of testing; in other words, the polished German is finally in the same pot as everyone else. There is no more preferential treatment. Under those conditions, even Barrichello might have won five titles—maybe six if he'd been the number one driver and someone like Fisichella was second. Get it? It's not about the completeness of the driver; it's about him driving in incomparably better conditions than the rest of the grid. So how can Alonso be worse than him? Tell me, how is Alonso worse than MS? Unless the criterion is just chronology. Alonso is the youngest world champion; he was winning back in 2003 when he was very green, and he wasn't any greener in 2005 when he masterfully drove his way to a title. Can Alonso's first title be compared to MS's first? Yes. Both drove for teams that had the second fastest car on the grid, both were clear number ones, and both faced opponents in cars that were technically faster but plagued by issues. And look how it ended. Alonso's title was as clean as it gets; MS's was as murky as it gets. I'm not talking about the controversial driving standards or nonsense; I'm talking about on-track behavior. Like at Silverstone, why on earth overtake during a pace lap? We haven't seen the full extent of Alonso's Ferrari stint yet, but in 2010, the Ferrari is the second fastest car, just like it was in 1996. So even 2010 is comparable. MS won three times in '96, but Alonso has already won four, and MS wasn't even in the title fight. Honestly, stormyviper11, you've still got plenty of time until 2020, right? Besides, even in wins, he's better: MS started his Ferrari stint with 19 wins, while Alonso is at 21. Two more wins! It's small, but it counts. Look, my friend, it's not all black and it's not all white. Light comes from different angles; sometimes gray looks black, and sometimes gray looks white. Sometimes, in heavy fog, you can't even tell what colors we're talking about—unless, of course, you're Nebelmeister. I'm waiting for the story about Nebelmeister who froze the sun. When is it coming? Give me something; I know a little about Nebelmeister, so I'd love for him to write something for a change, since Monteverdi isn't showing up.
