GP Germany - 07/25/2010

cosmicridge5 said:It’s no secret that he’s my forbidden love. 🤣

Nobody ever actually said Jenson was just a number two driver. I guess people just like to jump to conclusions.

🤣

Wait, are you actually trying to argue that Jenson Button isn't the number two driver at McLaren?! 🤣 Muahaha 🤣

I really don't feel like going over those McLaren-esque little inside jokes again, nor am I in the mood to deal with that recent schizophrenic screaming: Jenson, we really need to watch the fuel consumption here; it's looking pretty critical. I guess you really have to prioritize saving fuel. 🤣

Nobody ever actually ordered him to let Lewis through. The only thing they didn't allow him to do was get into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary scraps with his own teammate. I mean, we've already seen exactly how much of a disaster that looks like over at Red Bull.

So, I guess Lewis is just allowed to dive into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary battles with him? 😉 If you didn't happen to have one of the smartest, most level-headed drivers like Jenson Button as a second driver, we probably would've been watching a total McLaren disaster shortly after that mess with Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber. If they had paired him with two Lewis Hamiltons instead of Button, things would've gone south fast. Honestly, I don't know how you can even bring that up without feeling a bit embarrassed. 😁 It was pretty wild seeing how that clash actually went down. I guess you have to wonder what might have happened if Jenson hadn't been playing it safe by managing his fuel, or if he had just decided to hold his racing line instead. 😛 😁

Looking back at those first four races—and I remember watching them closely—Lewis was consistently finishing behind Jenson. Even then, it didn't seem like they were ordering Jenson to just let Lewis through. In Valencia, specifically, Jenson was actually the one to make the move on Lewis, and Lewis fought right back—which, honestly, was the exact opposite of what the pit wall was calling for.

Michael Lee4 said:Man, you should have seen this... some guy from Ferrari, tall, wearing glasses—some engineer or whatever—who originally left after Alonso and Massa, just walked right back onto the pit wall, stood between the two of them, hugged them, and told them to wave to the crowd... Massa didn't even wave 🤣

Stefano Domenicali🤣 :vriiiist: 🤣🤣🤣

Felipe Massa 🙏 🙏 🙏

Way to go, Felipe 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX9H917vQrg

Just returning the favor...☕

He’s really pushing his luck again, isn't he? And now he's getting worked up because some journalist actually called him out. He seems to be under the impression that anyone is actually going to give him the answers he's looking for.

Man, what a hilarious press conference 😁

Goodness, Felipe Massa... who on earth is this guy? 😍

Nancy Scott5 said:The answer is the day before.

It’s just that we didn't have team radio back then, so we couldn't hear the orders.

At Hockenheim, Lewis took first, while Heikki Kovalainen finished fifth; then at Silverstone, Lewis was back on top and Kovalainen was fourth. In both instances, he wasn't defending against Lewis or even the few others who passed him—it simply made no sense to try and defend against cars that were two seconds faster.

That’s what I call common sense—not team orders. And it seems like at Ferrari, they can only recognize common sense if it falls right out of the sky. 👎

Emily Lee45 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX9H917vQrg

Just returning the favor...☕

Hmm, true—but at the press conference, Kimi Räikkönen just smiled and said he did the best he could. He didn't pull a face or refuse to comment—he didn't act insulted or robbed.

redheron12 said:Looking back at those first four races—and I remember watching them closely—Lewis was consistently finishing behind Jenson. Even then, it didn't seem like they were ordering Jenson to just let Lewis through. In Valencia, specifically, Jenson was actually the one to make the move on Lewis, and Lewis fought right back—which, honestly, was the exact opposite of what the pit wall was calling for.

Come on, don't be naive. Just because you didn't HEAR them giving orders doesn't mean things aren't being rigged in Lewis's favor. I mean, just look at how much better they prep Lewis's car for qualifying while Gumbek gets left in the dust 🙂 or how suddenly he runs out of fuel the second Gumbek finds his rhythm and starts breathing down Hemić's neck 🤣. And just because you haven't read about Button being the number two driver in the papers or heard it from Button himself, doesn't prove anything 😁. Just because you can't see the ocean from your window doesn't mean it isn't there 😬.

During those first four races, Lewis was finishing behind Jenson Button

Exactly!! And they're still favoring Hemoš regardless! It's disgusting 😁

hollowhawk412 said:By the way, you didn't say a word about Fetlov's block on Alonso at the start...
Was that actually legal? 🤷

If you seriously believe Massa was faster than Alonso today, you are dead wrong...
Fetlov's blocking basically handed Massa the opening at the start.

I wouldn't know, I missed the start.🤷

But from what I've heard and realized since, he screwed up big time again.🤦

Honestly, I have no clue what his deal is lately.👎

redheron12 said:At Hockenheim, Lewis took first, while Heikki Kovalainen finished fifth; then at Silverstone, Lewis was back on top and Kovalainen was fourth. In both instances, he wasn't defending against Lewis or even the few others who passed him—it simply made no sense to try and defend against cars that were two seconds faster.

That’s what I call common sense—not team orders. And it seems like at Ferrari, they can only recognize common sense if it falls right out of the sky. 👎

So why didn't he just stay put instead of pulling away?😕
Lewis could've passed him just like everyone else, but instead this guy just moves out of the way and lets him through.🤷

cosmicridge5 said:Come on, don't be naive. Just because you didn't HEAR them giving orders doesn't mean things aren't being rigged in Lewis's favor. I mean, just look at how much better they prep Lewis's car for qualifying while Gumbek gets left in the dust 🙂 or how suddenly he runs out of fuel the second Gumbek finds his rhythm and starts breathing down Hemić's neck 🤣. And just because you haven't read about Button being the number two driver in the papers or heard it from Button himself, doesn't prove anything 😁. Just because you can't see the ocean from your window doesn't mean it isn't there 😬.

During those first four races, Lewis was finishing behind Jenson Button

Exactly!! And they're still favoring Hemoš regardless! It's disgusting 😁

Good grief, please—don't just lash out for the sake of lashing out simply to defend Alonso. Hamilton completely totaled his car the day before yesterday and they barely managed to get it back together; you'd think he'd struggle against Button, yet he was still faster in qualifying. I know that might be hard for you to swallow, but looking at pure, raw speed, Hamilton is the best driver on the grid today.

Besides, Button finished 6th today behind Mark Webber, while Hamilton took 4th—don't you think it's possible that Button simply burned through too much fuel trying to chase times that would have put him ahead of Webber after the pit stops?

No, I'm sure it's all a conspiracy 🙄

All in all, I’m just glad that Alonso fans finally get to prove once and for all just how talented he really is as a driver😁
...

Nancy Scott5 said:So why didn't he just stay put instead of pulling away?😕
Lewis could've passed him just like everyone else, but instead this guy just moves out of the way and lets him through.🤷

Come on, man—tell me why Heikki Kovalainen at Hockenheim, immediately after yielding to Lewis without even a fight, also moved away from Nick Heidfeld without any struggle at all?

Chris Chase5 said:All in all, I’m just glad that Alonso fans finally get to prove once and for all just how talented he really is as a driver😁
...

as if
the Massa fans have already proven just how damn good he is... 😉

I still don't quite grasp how anyone can compare this situation to those missed opportunities at the end of a season. Mathematically speaking, you have to pin the blame on just one driver—assuming they’ve been on equal footing until now. If Alonso doesn't secure the top spot from the very first race onward, then it's basically over 🙂🙂. Lewis could technically be in the same boat, but he either stays calm or pulls something ridiculous just to keep things interesting. Besides, he was only ever dominant within his own team, whereas Alonso... well, someone once called him a jinx. Renault was actually the perfect fit for him
.
Leave Moss out of this. It doesn't matter how talented he is; the reality is that everything has to be handed to Alonso on a silver platter 🤮
.

cosmicridge5 said:How many posts did you guys manage to pump out while I was busy making my way through the Metro? 🙂 😁

Anyway, I agree that banning team orders is a complete joke. That rule is basically just dead ink on paper at this point. Nobody actually enforces it, nobody can realistically enforce it, nobody actually wants to enforce it, and I doubt anyone here is under any illusions about how that works. 😁 So why the sudden shock today, then? 😁 What have you guys seen lately?

Does it bother anyone else that there was just so much going on? I guess I'm wondering if it felt a bit overwhelming to everyone else too. Obviously.Yeah, I agree. It looks ridiculous, honestly. It’s just embarrassing to watch the drivers being forced to act like idiots for no reason.

Everyone involved—including us—is well aware that team orders and strategic decisions aren't going anywhere. They exist in every single garage on the grid. It's common knowledge that in Formula 1, the team's overall interest takes precedence over any individual driver's ego. Personally, I think that’s actually quite reasonable given the circumstances, and it’s honestly how things have to work if you want to win.

It’s pretty obvious that within McLaren (and even outside of it), Lewis is treated as the clear number one driver. Even though he's technically officially labeled as number two— The current world champion.😲 Even though he definitely still has a shot at the title. 😉 Lewis might have that slight edge in raw pace, but if you ask me, Button makes up for it with other qualities. Honestly, though, if we’re being real about it, the biggest injustice here has to be at McLaren. I guess if anyone deserved to be number two more than anyone else on the grid, it probably wasn't Button.

When you look at the numbers, Massa was clearly outclassed by Alonso. There’s really no debate about who the more complete driver is when you weigh everything up. Honestly, given the massive gap in points between them, I guess Ferrari's move was pretty much the only logical step left. The reasons behind it are obvious and have been discussed to death already.

Someone mentioned that this isn't quite the same situation as when Kimi took his title, arguing that back then it came down to the final race and whether he could clinch it or not. I guess it’s not all that different here, though. Massa doesn't really have a realistic shot at the championship anymore, whereas Fernando still has a path if everything aligns perfectly—assuming he drives flawlessly and gets a decent bit of luck on top of it. From where I'm sitting, Ferrari was facing a real dilemma today: they could either play this hand and stay in the hunt for the title, or just throw in the towel entirely. And apparently, this is all because of some supposed "moral code" regarding avoiding team orders? We all know those exist; honestly, teams don't even try that hard to hide them, let alone anyone else.

In my opinion, the only way Ferrari actually messed this up was by ignoring what everyone else is doing—something we all know for a fact is working. Everyone’s getting to work. He didn't exactly make it "less obvious." I guess it’s a massive blunder once you actually take a closer look. wow. 😁It’s pretty obvious Ferrari knows the Formula 1 fanbase isn't stupid, so there's really no point trying to insult our intelligence by hiding or using some nonsensical camouflage for things everyone already knows are happening. 😁 It's standard practice for basically every team on the grid.

I agree this was laughably transparent, but it just proves how unenforceable this ban is—given how much people use coded language anyway—and how ridiculous it is. They should just scrap it.

Now, if we want to talk about the moral side of things, which seems to be what everyone here loves to lecture one another about, then from a purely ethical standpoint, it makes zero difference whether something "immoral" is done overtly or subtly. 😁

It doesn't make an act any less immoral if, for instance, Kimi wins a title because of the exact same reasons, it just happens that Kimi is everyone's favorite, so we all happily cheer him on. Meanwhile, if Alonso does it, it's suddenly seen as more immoral simply because he's the easiest target for people to hate. 😁

I am fairly certain that Moss didn't explicitly tell him to let Kimi through, because if they had actually given such an order, Kimi would have been released on track. Instead, they held him back by a tenth or two in the pits, leaving Kimi right on his tail, and that was that. If you recall, Kimi was flying right before Moss. In a scenario like that, it would have been incredibly reckless for Kimi to go for a high-risk move while Moss was desperately trying to defend.
Even if there was some level of coordination involved, it was executed flawlessly, and I honestly can't find anything wrong with how it went down.

With moves like this today, they truly treat us viewers like we're complete idiots.

hollowgull5 said:as if
the Massa fans have already proven just how damn good he is... 😉

I wouldn't call myself a die-hard fan of either driver, but I have two guys at home who are pretty captivated by Alonso's driving skill and his sense of integrity... especially when you compare him to someone like Schumacher or Hamilton. Personally, though, Alonso has never really done it for me... he's just never been my type of driver...

Betty Moore34 said:Look, I’m a supporter of Felipe Massa, but let’s be brutally honest here: his performance is only ever as good as the car he's sitting in. Fernando Alonso has been driving a solid race all season, consistently picking up points and maintaining a pace that Massa simply couldn't match. Now, suddenly, after putting together a race that was every bit as strong as Alonso's, he decides to start whining? What kind of foresight was he lacking before this mess unfolded, and frankly, Smedley is being a complete idiot by actively undermining his own team.
It would be much better for everyone involved if he just packed his bags and left. 😠

And Alonso is only as good as his teammate lets him be. If his teammate drives straight into a wall, sure, he wins. Whatever.

Can we please stop with this "super driver" vs. "car is everything" nonsense?🙄

They’re all elite drivers. The only difference is their personality—whether they're a coward, a whiner, an arrogant jerk, a calm gentleman, or a spoiled brat.

All this talk about "great drivers" or "the car makes the driver" is pointless. In my opinion, Vettel would have scored more points in a McLaren than Hamilton did, and if Hamilton were in a Red Bull with Webber, he’d probably have 8 DNFs and only 50 points, and they’d spend every single race absolutely destroying each other.🤣

Everything depends on the teammate and the crew. Honestly, the only fair way to race would be if every team only had one driver😁 so there wouldn't be any of this internal drama and bullshit.🤣