GP Germany - 07/25/2010

Henry Morris3 said:So, not only are you totally lost, but you're clearly missing what's right in front of you too...

It’s pretty rough when even the blind folks can see that Button is totally out of his league.😁

cosmicridge5 said:How many posts did you guys manage to pump out while I was busy making my way through the Metro? 🙂 😁

Anyway, I agree that banning team orders is a complete joke. That rule is basically just dead ink on paper at this point. Nobody actually enforces it, nobody can realistically enforce it, nobody actually wants to enforce it, and I doubt anyone here is under any illusions about how that works. 😁 So why the sudden shock today, then? 😁 What have you guys seen lately?

Does it bother anyone else that there was just so much going on? I guess I'm wondering if it felt a bit overwhelming to everyone else too. Obviously.Yeah, I agree. It looks ridiculous, honestly. It’s just embarrassing to watch the drivers being forced to act like idiots for no reason.

Everyone involved—including us—is well aware that team orders and strategic decisions aren't going anywhere. They exist in every single garage on the grid. It's common knowledge that in Formula 1, the team's overall interest takes precedence over any individual driver's ego. Personally, I think that’s actually quite reasonable given the circumstances, and it’s honestly how things have to work if you want to win.

It’s pretty obvious that within McLaren (and even outside of it), Lewis is treated as the clear number one driver. Even though he's technically officially labeled as number two— The current world champion.😲 Even though he definitely still has a shot at the title. 😉 Lewis might have that slight edge in raw pace, but if you ask me, Button makes up for it with other qualities. Honestly, though, if we’re being real about it, the biggest injustice here has to be at McLaren. I guess if anyone deserved to be number two more than anyone else on the grid, it probably wasn't Button.

When you look at the numbers, Massa was clearly outclassed by Alonso. There’s really no debate about who the more complete driver is when you weigh everything up. Honestly, given the massive gap in points between them, I guess Ferrari's move was pretty much the only logical step left. The reasons behind it are obvious and have been discussed to death already.

Someone mentioned that this isn't quite the same situation as when Kimi took his title, arguing that back then it came down to the final race and whether he could clinch it or not. I guess it’s not all that different here, though. Massa doesn't really have a realistic shot at the championship anymore, whereas Fernando still has a path if everything aligns perfectly—assuming he drives flawlessly and gets a decent bit of luck on top of it. From where I'm sitting, Ferrari was facing a real dilemma today: they could either play this hand and stay in the hunt for the title, or just throw in the towel entirely. And apparently, this is all because of some supposed "moral code" regarding avoiding team orders? We all know those exist; honestly, teams don't even try that hard to hide them, let alone anyone else.

In my opinion, the only way Ferrari actually messed this up was by ignoring what everyone else is doing—something we all know for a fact is working. Everyone’s getting to work. He didn't exactly make it "less obvious." I guess it’s a massive blunder once you actually take a closer look. wow. 😁It’s pretty obvious Ferrari knows the Formula 1 fanbase isn't stupid, so there's really no point trying to insult our intelligence by hiding or using some nonsensical camouflage for things everyone already knows are happening. 😁 It's standard practice for basically every team on the grid.

I agree this was laughably transparent, but it just proves how unenforceable this ban is—given how much people use coded language anyway—and how ridiculous it is. They should just scrap it.

Now, if we want to talk about the moral side of things, which seems to be what everyone here loves to lecture one another about, then from a purely ethical standpoint, it makes zero difference whether something "immoral" is done overtly or subtly. 😁

It doesn't make an act any less immoral if, for instance, Kimi wins a title because of the exact same reasons, it just happens that Kimi is everyone's favorite, so we all happily cheer him on. Meanwhile, if Alonso does it, it's suddenly seen as more immoral simply because he's the easiest target for people to hate. 😁

Nah, don't go hating on Kimi. The guy is an absolute legend in this sport.😉🙏

Good grief, this guy is absolutely dreadful—it honestly feels like someone just smacked him right in the face with a frying pan.🤣

feraltrucker5 said:Since when did doing the job you're actually getting paid for and following the terms of your contract become some kind of humiliation? 🤔

Honestly, my heart is just breaking for poor Massa. 🙂

Whatever, let him just head over to Force India and sweep the championship; that’ll really show those jerks at Ferrari what kind of driver he actually is. 👍

Yeah, exactly. This isn't the first time he’s been stuck driving like a servant only to miss out on the win at the end. The guy basically won the race, then had to slow down just to let Fernando Alonso through. He should have never signed such a humiliating contract.

feraltrucker5 said:Since when did doing the job you're actually getting paid for and following the terms of your contract become some kind of humiliation? 🤔

Honestly, my heart is just breaking for poor Massa. 🙂

Whatever, let him just head over to Force India and sweep the championship; that’ll really show those jerks at Ferrari what kind of driver he actually is. 👍

He’s never winning a championship at Ferrari because he’ll always just be some driver's little protégé. It’s like he's the biggest loser in class that everyone just picks on for fun. At least in Force India, he could actually drive normally instead of humiliating himself by letting someone take a win a few laps before the finish.

Edward Howard2 said:It’s pretty rough when even the blind folks can see that Button is totally out of his league.😁

It all comes down to raw ability, I suppose.🤷

Except at Ferrari—it feels like everyone there lacks basic competence, which makes me think they must be hiring based on some other, much stranger criteria.😉

Damn, missed the start😢

Which kid was it that Vettel messed up on?👎

And honestly, screw being Mark Webber's second choice🙄

I’m hating this Ferrari even more than usual now, and that goes for Fernando Alonso too🙂 🙂 🙂

Thomas Lee7 said:How many more millions does he actually need? How long is he gonna keep humilitating himself? Is it over when he finally says, "I've got enough cash now, screw you all, I'm too damn good of a driver for this crap"?

Look, I’m a supporter of Felipe Massa, but let’s be brutally honest here: his performance is only ever as good as the car he's sitting in. Fernando Alonso has been driving a solid race all season, consistently picking up points and maintaining a pace that Massa simply couldn't match. Now, suddenly, after putting together a race that was every bit as strong as Alonso's, he decides to start whining? What kind of foresight was he lacking before this mess unfolded, and frankly, Smedley is being a complete idiot by actively undermining his own team.
It would be much better for everyone involved if he just packed his bags and left. 😠

Michael Lee4 said:It’s a hell of a feeling when you win and don't even bother celebrating. ☕

Just let it go. He’s playing it cool right before he meets Felipe Massa; there's no point in overdoing the hype and making things awkward. Once he finally gets back to his hotel room, you'll see him celebrating properly.

hollowgull5 said:If he was faster during the race
then why didn't he just blast past Massa instead of letting that guy just hold him up...😕

Man, stop whining...😉

I mean, how can anyone even pose a question like that when they clearly haven't been following Formula 1 for the last few years

Do you have any idea how incredibly difficult it is to make an overtake in Formula 1 these days... even when you are significantly faster than the car ahead

So, there was basically nothing happening in the race besides the start, which I watched when it already seemed obvious which overtake was inevitably going to happen sooner or later...
What was the secret code this time? 😬
And who's driving for McLaren now?

redheron12 said:It's funny how our little forum sweetheart is suddenly so concerned about Button.😍

Button was never a "number two" driver; nobody ever actually said that or ordered him to let Hamilton past. The only thing was that he wasn't permitted to engage in those foolish, risky, and completely unnecessary battles against his teammate. We saw exactly how that plays out over at Red Bull.

By using a smart, disciplined approach, a team with only the third fastest car can actually lead both the constructors' and drivers' championships.

It’s no secret that he’s my forbidden love. 🤣

Nobody ever actually said Jenson was just a number two driver. I guess people just like to jump to conclusions.

🤣

Wait, are you actually trying to argue that Jenson Button isn't the number two driver at McLaren?! 🤣 Muahaha 🤣

I really don't feel like going over those McLaren-esque little inside jokes again, nor am I in the mood to deal with that recent schizophrenic screaming: Jenson, we really need to watch the fuel consumption here; it's looking pretty critical. I guess you really have to prioritize saving fuel. 🤣

Nobody ever actually ordered him to let Lewis through. The only thing they didn't allow him to do was get into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary scraps with his own teammate. I mean, we've already seen exactly how much of a disaster that looks like over at Red Bull.

So, I guess Lewis is just allowed to dive into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary battles with him? 😉 If you didn't happen to have one of the smartest, most level-headed drivers like Jenson Button as a second driver, we probably would've been watching a total McLaren disaster shortly after that mess with Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber. If they had paired him with two Lewis Hamiltons instead of Button, things would've gone south fast. Honestly, I don't know how you can even bring that up without feeling a bit embarrassed. 😁 It was pretty wild seeing how that clash actually went down. I guess you have to wonder what might have happened if Jenson hadn't been playing it safe by managing his fuel, or if he had just decided to hold his racing line instead. 😛 😁

redheron12 said:Good grief, this guy is absolutely dreadful—it honestly feels like someone just smacked him right in the face with a frying pan.🤣

He definitely has a massive head, though. 🙂

redheron12 said:Come on, cosmicridge5, please don't mess this up.

When was the last time a driver at McLaren was actually ordered to let someone else through?

If I recall correctly—and I try to keep my facts straight—Coulthard was sensible enough to know when to yield without being told.

Kovalainen was painfully slow back then; I doubt anyone even needed to give him orders.

Then there was Alonso, who essentially wrecked the team's chances—yet he was never ordered to move for Lewis, and we lost the title by a single point because of it.

It seems pretty clear to the drivers themselves where things stand—who holds the better position—and they should be able to make those calls on their own.

Take Kimi, for instance—he let Massa through once, but nobody panicked about it, mostly because it's understood that Kimi is intelligent enough to handle things without being micromanaged.

So, just STFU!

The answer is the day before.

Nancy Scott5 said:The race was 🙂, so here’s a little something for all the McLaren fans out there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Sai_jLQG4
😁

It’s just that we didn't have team radio back then, so we couldn't hear the orders.

Man, you should have seen this... some guy from Ferrari, tall, wearing glasses—some engineer or whatever—who originally left after Alonso and Massa, just walked right back onto the pit wall, stood between the two of them, hugged them, and told them to wave to the crowd... Massa didn't even wave 🤣

feraltrucker5 said:Well, baby Felipe is plenty smart too. 🤷 It's just that once they told him Alonso was moving faster, he basically decided to clear a path on his own initiative (🤣) and get out of the way. 👍

True, but if that were actually the case, he wouldn't have acted like an insulted bystander during the press conference. 🙄

If Massa was going to let Alonso pass, he should have just taken it on the chin at the podium—or better yet, not yielded at all. Instead, he did what he felt he had to do, but ended up throwing the whole team under the bus.

Get a load of this guy... he has zero clue why 🤣 🤣 🤣
Felipe Massa slowed down.

redheron12 said:Come on, cosmicridge5, please don't mess this up.

When was the last time a driver at McLaren was actually ordered to let someone else through?

If I recall correctly—and I try to keep my facts straight—Coulthard was sensible enough to know when to yield without being told.

Kovalainen was painfully slow back then; I doubt anyone even needed to give him orders.

Then there was Alonso, who essentially wrecked the team's chances—yet he was never ordered to move for Lewis, and we lost the title by a single point because of it.

It seems pretty clear to the drivers themselves where things stand—who holds the better position—and they should be able to make those calls on their own.

Take Kimi, for instance—he let Massa through once, but nobody panicked about it, mostly because it's understood that Kimi is intelligent enough to handle things without being micromanaged.

So, just STFU!

Bite me! 😍 😁

What an absolute joke—who on earth thinks Fernando Alonso actually has a contract allowing him to jump ahead of Felipe Massa? 🤣

cosmicridge5 said:It’s no secret that he’s my forbidden love. 🤣

Nobody ever actually said Jenson was just a number two driver. I guess people just like to jump to conclusions.

🤣

Wait, are you actually trying to argue that Jenson Button isn't the number two driver at McLaren?! 🤣 Muahaha 🤣

I really don't feel like going over those McLaren-esque little inside jokes again, nor am I in the mood to deal with that recent schizophrenic screaming: Jenson, we really need to watch the fuel consumption here; it's looking pretty critical. I guess you really have to prioritize saving fuel. 🤣

Nobody ever actually ordered him to let Lewis through. The only thing they didn't allow him to do was get into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary scraps with his own teammate. I mean, we've already seen exactly how much of a disaster that looks like over at Red Bull.

So, I guess Lewis is just allowed to dive into those stupid, risky, and totally unnecessary battles with him? 😉 If you didn't happen to have one of the smartest, most level-headed drivers like Jenson Button as a second driver, we probably would've been watching a total McLaren disaster shortly after that mess with Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber. If they had paired him with two Lewis Hamiltons instead of Button, things would've gone south fast. Honestly, I don't know how you can even bring that up without feeling a bit embarrassed. 😁 It was pretty wild seeing how that clash actually went down. I guess you have to wonder what might have happened if Jenson hadn't been playing it safe by managing his fuel, or if he had just decided to hold his racing line instead. 😛 😁

Totally agree.👍

mistybear87 said:

I’ve been thinking quite a bit lately about Pilatus—specifically those incredible turboprops they build. There is just something about that level of precision engineering that feels almost lost in today's world of mass production, don't you think? It makes me wonder if we focus too much on sheer scale when we should be looking at the elegance of specialized design. It’s one of those things where quality isn't just a buzzword; it's the entire foundation of the machine. kaže:
And besides, you don't actually have to be standing right in front of the car to get it lowered.
Just like a mechanic over at Ferrari. ☕

Come on, let’s be reasonable here—enough with the nonsense. To actually pull that off, they’d need arms that were a mile long just to reach over the rubber. Let's stick to reality, shall we? Thanks for nothing. ☕

So polite and cultured.

Or maybe not.

Just like how Ferrari fans don't go around lifting cars while standing on the sidelines. 😉

Bokić. ☕