GP Germany - 07/25/2010

Amanda Kelly said:Look, in the last race, both of our drivers managed to move up one spot compared to their qualifying positions, while your guys dropped two.
You guys have a way more dominant car—well, except for that last race—but what’s the actual advantage here? A measly 13 points. It's honestly laughable.

Well, looks like we've gone completely backward. It should have been a clean exit from Turkey, right? But what exactly went down over there?
Hockenheim doesn't have to be the ultimate benchmark, but honestly? It feels more like we're catching up to you than you're pulling away from us.
What would have happened if we weren't such a disorganized mess of a company?

Two-time world champion Fernando Alonso is basically a PhD in driving science compared to those fanatics you call fans.

Wow, you're real tough after one lucky single race.🤣

What 13 points are you talking about?😕
RB vs Ferrari is a 64-point gap.

If you're talking about Alonso, are you actually 100% sure that gap stays the same by the end of the weekend?🤣

It wouldn't surprise me if Alonso walked away with zero points.☕

If Ferrari weren't such a disorganized mess right now, they'd have at least a 150-point lead in the world constructors championship and at least 100 in the world driver championship. Ferrari started car development first, they have a driver "who develops the car best and delivers 0.6 seconds per lap," they have an excellent wingman who is the No. 2 driver and isn't allowed to finish ahead of Alonso, yet they are still trailing McLaren by 92 points, and Alonso is trailing by 34.☕

Besides, you're forgetting that Alonso has engine issues too.😉

I'm not even worried about him; I'm more concerned that my lot still doesn't grasp how you actually win a championship.🤦

This Horner guy is definitely out of his mind; he's genuinely convinced everyone else is racing each other except for the Ferrari drivers. 🤣 Crazy. 🤣

Are you seriously trying to find comfort in the constructors' championship?

Honestly, you both look ridiculous—just total amateurs, if I'm being honest about the teams you support 😁

Amanda Kelly said:Are you seriously trying to find comfort in the constructors' championship?

Look, Amanda, I'm not "consoling" myself with anything.🙂

Personally, I couldn't care less if the champion ends up being Vettel, Webber, Button, Hamilton, Alonso, or Schumacher.

All I want is to actually enjoy watching F1 races.😉

What’s really getting on my nerves right now is Ferrari's pathetic behavior. Look, no matter how much I like Vettel, I'd much rather see them push Webber to the limit—even if they crash—than watch Webber brake mid-race just to let him through. If they kept playing those games, I'd be the first one calling them out.😳

Who finishes first, second, or dead last? Who cares? As long as we're all here having a good time and laughing at the chaos, that's what matters.🤣

mistybear87 said:Let's be real: implementing team orders during those final races when the second driver has zero chance at the title is the most normal thing in the world. It happens in almost every major sport. No matter how much people try to prevent it, that's just how the game works. There is no "I" in team. 😉

I'm not going to spend my time hunting for them right now, but if you actually have an example where both drivers in the final race had a legitimate shot at the title, please feel free to share it so we can discuss. 😉
(And by that, I mean situations where one driver could have overtaken the other to clinch the championship, not those weird tactical scenarios where they just shuffle around 😉).

Ferrari pulled that move way back at the start of the 2002 season, and frankly, it felt totally unnecessary. Jean Todt famously remarked at the time, "Why should we risk losing the championship over 3 points? We'd look pretty foolish if we didn't act," which, considering how dominant their car was, felt like a massive understatement. We all know how 2002 wrapped up anyway... whether it was the driver shouting at the pit wall to let him through or the team making the call, does it even matter?

If you want a different perspective, check out Top Gear, Season 15, Episode 3. It’s worth seeing what Red Bull has to say about that whole incident. 😉

There haven't been many instances like that, but my personal favorite goes all the way back to the 1956 Italian GP. It was the season finale. Fangio had to retire, leaving Moss in the lead and Collins sitting in third. For Collins to snag his first world title, he needed to finish second; otherwise, Moss would take it. Musso, driving a Ferrari (just like Fangio and Collins), was sitting in second place. He was asked to hand his car over to Fangio, but he refused—he wouldn't yield to Fangio, and he wouldn't let Collins through either. Eventually, Collins pulled into the pits, voluntarily handed his car to Fangio, and Fangio finished second to secure his fourth title. If Collins had just kept racing, he likely would have finished second anyway since Musso dropped out, making him the first Englishman to become a world champion—yet today, almost nobody remembers his name.

So, here we have a single team where team orders were ignored and true teamwork was completely absent.

This definitely isn't the right thread for this, but urbanowl96, since you brought up those old-school F1 days: was it actually possible back then to swap drivers mid-race? And if it was, who ended up walking away with the points?

urbanowl96 said:There haven't been many instances like that, but my personal favorite goes all the way back to the 1956 Italian GP. It was the season finale. Fangio had to retire, leaving Moss in the lead and Collins sitting in third. For Collins to snag his first world title, he needed to finish second; otherwise, Moss would take it. Musso, driving a Ferrari (just like Fangio and Collins), was sitting in second place. He was asked to hand his car over to Fangio, but he refused—he wouldn't yield to Fangio, and he wouldn't let Collins through either. Eventually, Collins pulled into the pits, voluntarily handed his car to Fangio, and Fangio finished second to secure his fourth title. If Collins had just kept racing, he likely would have finished second anyway since Musso dropped out, making him the first Englishman to become a world champion—yet today, almost nobody remembers his name.

So, here we have a single team where team orders were ignored and true teamwork was completely absent.

🙏🙏🙏

But still, there's a massive difference here. Back then, one driver could choose to refuse while another chose to be selfless. There isn't even a shred of similarity to what we see today.

Joshua Newman2 said:This definitely isn't the right thread for this, but urbanowl96, since you brought up those old-school F1 days: was it actually possible back then to swap drivers mid-race? And if it was, who ended up walking away with the points?

Yes, it was entirely possible, and both drivers would split the points. In that specific case for second place, Fangio and Collins each took home three points.

@stormybadger8 - I know this is a bit of a tangent from what we're discussing today, but when Sep mentioned it, it triggered this memory. Essentially, the point is that back then, a driver would work for the team out of their own free will. Nowadays, the moment they're actually told to do something for the benefit of the team, they completely blow it.

I think Coulthard mentioned something similar on the BBC yesterday (if not that exact scenario)—about how back in the gentlemanly days, drivers would actually hop out of their cars and hand them over to their teammates 🙏

Instead of these selfish types we see nowadays 🙏

urbanowl96 said:There haven't been many instances like that, but my personal favorite goes all the way back to the 1956 Italian GP. It was the season finale. Fangio had to retire, leaving Moss in the lead and Collins sitting in third. For Collins to snag his first world title, he needed to finish second; otherwise, Moss would take it. Musso, driving a Ferrari (just like Fangio and Collins), was sitting in second place. He was asked to hand his car over to Fangio, but he refused—he wouldn't yield to Fangio, and he wouldn't let Collins through either. Eventually, Collins pulled into the pits, voluntarily handed his car to Fangio, and Fangio finished second to secure his fourth title. If Collins had just kept racing, he likely would have finished second anyway since Musso dropped out, making him the first Englishman to become a world champion—yet today, almost nobody remembers his name.

So, here we have a single team where team orders were ignored and true teamwork was completely absent.

That’s why he got punished by fate two years later. Nowadays, fate doesn't bother punishing people anymore...

Sure, he punished Massa, but what does that even matter when this guy came back even more clueless than before?

silvercobra68 said:That’s why he got punished by fate two years later. Nowadays, fate doesn't bother punishing people anymore...

Sure, he punished Massa, but what does that even matter when this guy came back even more clueless than before?

👍

redheron12 said:Honestly, you both look ridiculous—just total amateurs, if I'm being honest about the teams you support 😁

Right now, you're sitting in the best possible position, and honestly, there are plenty of reasons why. It makes sense. But there's one catch—one condition that has to be met if this actually works out.
The upgrades have to actually work first. And even then, you’re basically just banking on a lucky break in the circumstances.

Next up is Canada, instead of some much faster track (much to my disappointment).
After Canada, we're looking at a three or four-week break. Honestly, it’s exactly what we all need.
Honestly, everyone’s going to have their hands full, but McLaren definitely has the most work to do if they want to actually polish things up. I see Martin W. is already complaining about our front wing, claiming he’s going to run one too—even though the FIA sued us over ours.
It’s actually a shame we don't talk about this more.

Spa is going to be the ultimate litmus test for the rest of the season. Whoever shows the most strength there is basically setting themselves up to take it all.

Why the plural, Amanda Kelly? Why use the plural?

Get over it, otherwise you're just a smart kid with nothing to show for it.

Here is the official statement:

Dear friends,

A fantastic result today for US after a lot of hard work improving The Car; today Fernando and Felipe secured a perfect 1-2 finish. What makes this even better is the massive gap we built over our primary rivals. It’s incredibly encouraging and suggests we’re ready to mount a serious challenge in the second half of what has turned into one of the closest F1 seasons in modern history.

As some of you might have heard, we did pick up a penalty. It doesn't change the race outcome, but the Stewards weren't happy with how Felipe handled defending against Fernando towards the end of the race. Per the regulations, drivers are expected to race hard right until the checkered flag.

I wanted to step in and clarify things because it's a bit complicated. Let me be perfectly clear: there is zero favoritism here at Ferrari. If anything, the team's loyalty to Felipe is unmatched given his many years with us. However, the fact of the matter is that Fernando at that stage of the race was quicker. We relayed that to Felipe, and ultimately, it’s up to both drivers to maximize the performance of both cars without colliding—something we saw happen with Red Bull just a few weeks back.

Both our drivers are sharp, level-headed professionals. They understand that attacking one another serves no purpose and would only make the team look disorganized and amateurish. We were also feeling the heat from Vettel in 3rd, so it wouldn't have made sense for either Ferrari driver to drive slower than their actual pace; that's why we let Felipe know Fernando had the advantage. Since they are both Ferrari drivers, Fernando did not attempt to attack his teammate from behind nor did Felipe attempt to close the door on Fernando as the net result for Ferrari could have been disaster. Honestly, this is exactly why we invest so heavily in world-class drivers. We need them to use their heads just as much as their pedals—we aren't looking for reckless teenagers.

Ultimately, they both did a stellar job securing that 1-2 while holding off Vettel in the Red Bull. Because of that, the whole team is feeling good tonight. We’re proud to have a squad that operates as a single unit, which, as we've learned over the years, is the only way to win World Championships. We’re celebrating this win tonight and hope to carry this momentum into the next rounds.

I've attached a quick shot of our drivers' reactions immediately after exiting the cars... they clearly know how hard everyone at Ferrari worked for this victory today.

Forza Scuderia!

Are you kidding me? They were actually worried about Vettel catching them!?

Honestly, I don't get the logic here.☕>

Dammit, if they’d let Massa keep blocking Alonso, he would’ve done it regardless. And Alonso? He definitely would’ve pushed. What happens then? Most likely they collide or both spin out. It would’ve been so easy for them both to DNF, handing the win to Vettel on a silver platter. Instead of a 1-2, we’d be looking at:
2-3, or just 2, or 1-3, or 3, or even a total zero.

Way smarter than Red Bull.☕>

Boring and slimy.👎 Not insignificant.👎 A setup.🤦

But in the end, it was for the team.👍 For Alonso.👍

Screw it, who cares about $100,000 if that move secures you the championship? Plenty of people bet way more than that, and that's being generous.

stormybadger8 said:Honestly, I don't get the logic here.☕>

Dammit, if they’d let Massa keep blocking Alonso, he would’ve done it regardless. And Alonso? He definitely would’ve pushed. What happens then? Most likely they collide or both spin out. It would’ve been so easy for them both to DNF, handing the win to Vettel on a silver platter. Instead of a 1-2, we’d be looking at:
2-3, or just 2, or 1-3, or 3, or even a total zero.

Way smarter than Red Bull.☕>

Boring and slimy.👎 Not insignificant.👎 A setup.🤦

But in the end, it was for the team.👍 For Alonso.👍

Screw it, who cares about $100,000 if that move secures you the championship? Plenty of people bet way more than that, and that's being generous.

Or, as someone once said, quoting Jean Todt....

In a "sport" this expensive, you simply can't risk losing the championship—even over something as small as 7 points in this case.

And it seems Red Bull is the only one that hasn't realized it yet. This will come back to haunt them, just like what happened to McLaren in 2007.🙂

cosmicridge5 said:Whoa, whoa, hold on 🎉

😁

Come on, get involved a little, I could use some backup here 🤣

Man, what kind of backup... 🤣

It's obvious you've got everything under control and you're absolutely crushing the competition 🙏

Give me a shout if things actually get intense 👍

silvercobra68 said:That’s why he got punished by fate two years later. Nowadays, fate doesn't bother punishing people anymore...

Sure, he punished Massa, but what does that even matter when this guy came back even more clueless than before?

🤣

Man, you are something else... 🙏 😁

Edward Howard2 said:Okay, let's not get ahead of ourselves by jumping straight to the US race... we can dive into that tomorrow after the checkered flag drops... 😁

But hey, if by some miracle tomorrow's podium looks like this:

1. Alonso
2. Vettel
3. Massa
4. Webber
5. Button
6. Hamilton

which isn't out of the question since Alonso will probably just bully little spoiled Vettel right at the starting lights...

the standings would actually look like this...
01 Lewis Hamilton 153
02 Jenson Button 143
03 Mark Webber 140
04 Sebastian Vettel 139
05 Fernando Alonso 123

He'll close the gap fast, and honestly, since Ferrari is looking way quicker lately (just look at Massa), we could see Alonso grabbing that top spot before we know it.😁

Just wanted to quote my own prediction from right after qualifying... yeah, it was realistic and expected... but hey...

Three Es for me! 🙏🙏🙏

Jason Campbell70 said:Or, as someone once said, quoting Jean Todt....

In a "sport" this expensive, you simply can't risk losing the championship—even over something as small as 7 points in this case.

And it seems Red Bull is the only one that hasn't realized it yet. This will come back to haunt them, just like what happened to McLaren in 2007.🙂

That’s fair enough, but Kimi was incredibly dominant that season with the most wins—if I recall correctly, he had six while everyone else was stuck with three or four—which makes him more than a deserving champion.