GP Germany - 07/25/2010

slydrifter39 said:Read

I watched it.

Coulthard and the lead commentator were totally aligned with Ferrari's strategy, while that third guy was acting like a complete lunatic. 😁

And Stefan said all sorts of things, too. ☕ Everything is live. ☕

At least try to act like a journalist for once, instead of doing this. 🙂

Motorsports hasn't been about actual sport for a long time—if it ever even was. It’s always been about whoever has the deepest pockets, not who has the most talent. Sure, you might stumble upon an outlier once in a blue moon that proves otherwise, but those moments are incredibly rare. It happens at every single level. Back when we were doing the Clio Cup here in the States, they used to claim everyone had "equal" cars with only "minimal" modifications allowed. Total joke. My cousin's kid actually snagged a title in that cheap little series... His Clio was running an exhaust from some high-end tuner out of the Netherlands that probably cost more than the entire annual budget of half the other drivers on the grid... 😁

I said "even on the BBC they're defending them," implying even some Americans are siding with Ferrari, which happens just as often as anything else. Let's not get bogged down in semantics here.

hollowdriver18 said:I watched it.

Coulthard and the lead commentator were totally aligned with Ferrari's strategy, while that third guy was acting like a complete lunatic. 😁

And Stefan said all sorts of things, too. ☕ Everything is live. ☕

At least try to act like a journalist for once, instead of doing this. 🙂

Ah... Martin Brundle. Look, he was teammates with Schumacher, so of course he's got that "second driver by a mile" complex.

stormyviper11 said:This whole mess with team orders and those idiotic bans is just a direct result of one guy, Rubens Barrichello, acting like a total loose cannon while he was on the ground in Austria. That scandal was so bad he should've been fired on the spot.

Look, if I’m dumping hundreds of millions of dollars into a business every single year, I have every right to decide how my drivers—who are being paid a fortune just for the privilege of driving for me—cross the finish line. In any real American corporation, if an employee acted out like that—publicly undermining management and making it obvious they don't give a damn about following orders right in front of investors and partners—they’d be kicked to the curb immediately.

Because of these stupid rules, we had to sit through that pathetic excuse for a press conference yesterday where the drivers were basically forced to dodge or ignore every question. Honestly, I really hope Ferrari hits Massa where it hurts financially for repeating a slightly toned-down version of Barrichello's nonsense... if they don't just fire him outright.

🙏 🙏 🙏

Get active more often. 👍

slydrifter39 said:I said "even on the BBC they're defending them," implying even some Americans are siding with Ferrari, which happens just as often as anything else. Let's not get bogged down in semantics here.

Ah... Martin Brundle. Look, he was teammates with Schumacher, so of course he's got that "second driver by a mile" complex.

But that's irrelevant, which is why I'm responding. 🙂

edit: and now you're obviously trying to discredit him. 😢 🤣 🤣

🙂

edit 2:
but I won't drag this out further...
I'll just say it's disappointing to see people whose posts I usually enjoy thinking this way. ☕

🙂

stormyviper11 said:Motorsports hasn't been about actual sport for a long time—if it ever even was. It’s always been about whoever has the deepest pockets, not who has the most talent. Sure, you might stumble upon an outlier once in a blue moon that proves otherwise, but those moments are incredibly rare. It happens at every single level. Back when we were doing the Clio Cup here in the States, they used to claim everyone had "equal" cars with only "minimal" modifications allowed. Total joke. My cousin's kid actually snagged a title in that cheap little series... His Clio was running an exhaust from some high-end tuner out of the Netherlands that probably cost more than the entire annual budget of half the other drivers on the grid... 😁

It feels like Gilles Villeneuve would have sold his soul just to get a shot at motorsport
while Senna seems to spend half his life walking the stretch from Brazil back to the birthplace of racing
wondering why a lesser driver gets the seat while pure talent is left watching from the grandstands.
But fine, I suppose this conversation belongs in Joey's corner of the internet instead.

So, what was the peak achievement for that relative of yours? Did he ever make it out to the big leagues?

Quote:table> div>Of course. Since he started posting, he's been nothing but a McLaren fanboy. When Kimi grabbed the title, he acted like he'd just sucked on a bag of lemons. How can anyone actually root for this guy?

hollowdriver18 says: edit: and now you're obviously just trying to trash him 😢 >> >> >> div>

stormyviper11 said:This whole mess with team orders and those idiotic bans is just a direct result of one guy, Rubens Barrichello, acting like a total loose cannon while he was on the ground in Austria. That scandal was so bad he should've been fired on the spot.

Look, if I’m dumping hundreds of millions of dollars into a business every single year, I have every right to decide how my drivers—who are being paid a fortune just for the privilege of driving for me—cross the finish line. In any real American corporation, if an employee acted out like that—publicly undermining management and making it obvious they don't give a damn about following orders right in front of investors and partners—they’d be kicked to the curb immediately.

Because of these stupid rules, we had to sit through that pathetic excuse for a press conference yesterday where the drivers were basically forced to dodge or ignore every question. Honestly, I really hope Ferrari hits Massa where it hurts financially for repeating a slightly toned-down version of Barrichello's nonsense... if they don't just fire him outright.

👍

Honestly, I found myself thinking yesterday that Massa might have done that on purpose just to make the whole thing look rigged... and after browsing some international forums, it seems I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

When Alonso was right on the verge of overtaking him, the team radio was basically just broadcasting his sheer disbelief that they were playing games with the agreement; honestly, they could have collided at any second there...
I honestly suspect that everything unfolding later on was purely spontaneous, which might actually offer some clarity regarding Smedley's sheer clumsiness during that stretch...
I am more convinced than ever that Massa did that on purpose.

The controversy surrounding Halabuka exists for a reason, and honestly, it stems directly from the reality that Ferrari actually has the pace right now. That’s exactly why you see Horner scrambling, trying so desperately to prove himself and reclaim some ground. It's quite telling, really. But then you have his own driver essentially stating that being second isn't even a bad thing for the other guy, which just adds another layer to this whole mess.

Honestly, I think we’ve had more than enough debate regarding this particular situation...

Does anyone actually have a decent explanation for why Fettel blocked Alonso right at the start?
Honestly, when I took a look at the onboard footage from Massa's car, it struck me—actually, I'm absolutely certain—that Vettel was even slowing down, let alone clearly being blocked.
Is that actually permitted?

hollowhawk412 said:👍

Honestly, I found myself thinking yesterday that Massa might have done that on purpose just to make the whole thing look rigged... and after browsing some international forums, it seems I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

When Alonso was right on the verge of overtaking him, the team radio was basically just broadcasting his sheer disbelief that they were playing games with the agreement; honestly, they could have collided at any second there...
I honestly suspect that everything unfolding later on was purely spontaneous, which might actually offer some clarity regarding Smedley's sheer clumsiness during that stretch...
I am more convinced than ever that Massa did that on purpose.

The controversy surrounding Halabuka exists for a reason, and honestly, it stems directly from the reality that Ferrari actually has the pace right now. That’s exactly why you see Horner scrambling, trying so desperately to prove himself and reclaim some ground. It's quite telling, really. But then you have his own driver essentially stating that being second isn't even a bad thing for the other guy, which just adds another layer to this whole mess.

Honestly, I think we’ve had more than enough debate regarding this particular situation...

Does anyone actually have a decent explanation for why Fettel blocked Alonso right at the start?
Honestly, when I took a look at the onboard footage from Massa's car, it struck me—actually, I'm absolutely certain—that Vettel was even slowing down, let alone clearly being blocked.
Is that actually permitted?

Fettel has two main issues.

First; he often messes up right at the start, then he panics, his adrenaline spikes, and he turns into a complete idiot by lunging at his rival. He pulled the exact same stunt on Webber. He lacks maturity. And honestly, in my opinion, he's a bit dim.

I was convinced Alonso was going to run him down after the race, just like he did to Massa at Nürburgring back in 2007, but clearly, he had other things on his mind once the race ended; he probably cooled off.

I’m just sitting here hoping that Massa and that sloppy Turbo Ferrari finally opened the eyes of naive Horner and Matheka.🤣

If this isn't it, then I don't know what is.😂

Everything will come to light in Canada. That's where they should finally decide who the No. 1 driver is at Red Bull, and they need to stick to it strictly—even if it means firing a disobedient No. 2 driver.😬

There’s no other way. They need to be taught a lesson and shown how things actually work, especially since they still have the title in their pocket without breaking a sweat.☕

Otherwise, when you look at the situation:

Because they didn't have team orders, Red Bull only gave up 46 points in Turkey and Britain combined.
Vettel lost 44 points for the exact same reason.
Webber lost 10 points for the same reason.
Compared to Red Bull, who had nothing holding them back, Ferrari lost a massive 89 points because of those team orders.

Seriously, if we look at the facts, if Alonso and Massa had kept chasing each other like Webber and Vettel, a crash would have been almost inevitable.🤣

So, it's team order 89 versus zero team orders.😢

silvercobra68 said:Fettel has two main issues.

First; he often messes up right at the start, then he panics, his adrenaline spikes, and he turns into a complete idiot by lunging at his rival. He pulled the exact same stunt on Webber. He lacks maturity. And honestly, in my opinion, he's a bit dim.

I was convinced Alonso was going to run him down after the race, just like he did to Massa at Nürburgring back in 2007, but clearly, he had other things on his mind once the race ended; he probably cooled off.

Look, Mr. Vettel is struggling because his team isn't teaching him how to handle pressure. Instead of helping him grab a title, they're basically training him to think acting like an idiot pays off more.👎

His team is screwing him over, plain and simple.
He was supposed to be either the No. 2 driver or Webber's wingman, but this whole situation is a complete mess. He sees Webber getting away with dirty moves and nonsense, so he obviously thinks he can get away with it too. Well, newsflash: he can't.

Webber gets the nod because he just handles those high-pressure moments better. Look, the kid is still green—maybe he isn't quite as sharp when he doesn't have a car glued to his side and an empty track ahead of him in qualifying with a superior machine. He’s got plenty of growing pains left to deal with, honestly... Webber is sweating it because he knows he's better equipped for these scenarios and arguably more ready for the title this year than the youngster is. And if you ask me, alongside Hemic and Kubica, Webber is the only one truly willing to take the kind of risks for a win that Kimi did back when he lost a wheel in the final lap of that race.

hollowhawk412 said:👍

Honestly, I found myself thinking yesterday that Massa might have done that on purpose just to make the whole thing look rigged... and after browsing some international forums, it seems I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

When Alonso was right on the verge of overtaking him, the team radio was basically just broadcasting his sheer disbelief that they were playing games with the agreement; honestly, they could have collided at any second there...
I honestly suspect that everything unfolding later on was purely spontaneous, which might actually offer some clarity regarding Smedley's sheer clumsiness during that stretch...
I am more convinced than ever that Massa did that on purpose.

The controversy surrounding Halabuka exists for a reason, and honestly, it stems directly from the reality that Ferrari actually has the pace right now. That’s exactly why you see Horner scrambling, trying so desperately to prove himself and reclaim some ground. It's quite telling, really. But then you have his own driver essentially stating that being second isn't even a bad thing for the other guy, which just adds another layer to this whole mess.

Honestly, I think we’ve had more than enough debate regarding this particular situation...

Does anyone actually have a decent explanation for why Fettel blocked Alonso right at the start?
Honestly, when I took a look at the onboard footage from Massa's car, it struck me—actually, I'm absolutely certain—that Vettel was even slowing down, let alone clearly being blocked.
Is that actually permitted?

Yeah. Over the last 24 hours, I've gone from defending Massa to being pretty critical of him.
Seeing how he played it at the very end, I was almost relieved he even let up.
But once you step back, it's clear to me he's the root of this whole mess—the main reason Ferrari is dealing with this whole "not letting someone through" drama.

hollowhawk412 said:👍

Honestly, I found myself thinking yesterday that Massa might have done that on purpose just to make the whole thing look rigged... and after browsing some international forums, it seems I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

When Alonso was right on the verge of overtaking him, the team radio was basically just broadcasting his sheer disbelief that they were playing games with the agreement; honestly, they could have collided at any second there...
I honestly suspect that everything unfolding later on was purely spontaneous, which might actually offer some clarity regarding Smedley's sheer clumsiness during that stretch...
I am more convinced than ever that Massa did that on purpose.

The controversy surrounding Halabuka exists for a reason, and honestly, it stems directly from the reality that Ferrari actually has the pace right now. That’s exactly why you see Horner scrambling, trying so desperately to prove himself and reclaim some ground. It's quite telling, really. But then you have his own driver essentially stating that being second isn't even a bad thing for the other guy, which just adds another layer to this whole mess.

Honestly, I think we’ve had more than enough debate regarding this particular situation...

Does anyone actually have a decent explanation for why Fettel blocked Alonso right at the start?
Honestly, when I took a look at the onboard footage from Massa's car, it struck me—actually, I'm absolutely certain—that Vettel was even slowing down, let alone clearly being blocked.
Is that actually permitted?

Alonso was completely justified, and it looked like he let him through simply because he didn't want to take unnecessary risks. The guy realized he was dealing with a joke.
And Smedley isn't off the hook either! He’s Massa's race engineer, so his closeness and loyalty to Felipe make sense. But he's also an experienced professional on the Ferrari payroll, and what he said is unacceptable in terms of responsibility to the team.
If Massa gets chewed out (stormyviper11 👍), Smedley should too.
Though Massa's fault is incomparably bigger. He could have handled the whole thing elegantly, and he should have.
That spring must have left its mark.

hollowhawk412 said:👍

Honestly, I found myself thinking yesterday that Massa might have done that on purpose just to make the whole thing look rigged... and after browsing some international forums, it seems I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

When Alonso was right on the verge of overtaking him, the team radio was basically just broadcasting his sheer disbelief that they were playing games with the agreement; honestly, they could have collided at any second there...
I honestly suspect that everything unfolding later on was purely spontaneous, which might actually offer some clarity regarding Smedley's sheer clumsiness during that stretch...
I am more convinced than ever that Massa did that on purpose.

The controversy surrounding Halabuka exists for a reason, and honestly, it stems directly from the reality that Ferrari actually has the pace right now. That’s exactly why you see Horner scrambling, trying so desperately to prove himself and reclaim some ground. It's quite telling, really. But then you have his own driver essentially stating that being second isn't even a bad thing for the other guy, which just adds another layer to this whole mess.

Honestly, I think we’ve had more than enough debate regarding this particular situation...

Does anyone actually have a decent explanation for why Fettel blocked Alonso right at the start?
Honestly, when I took a look at the onboard footage from Massa's car, it struck me—actually, I'm absolutely certain—that Vettel was even slowing down, let alone clearly being blocked.
Is that actually permitted?

Clear as day. It looks like Ferrari's updates are dialed in and working well. Both Red Bulls were outpaced, and the McLaren was more than half a second behind.
They aren't exactly thrilled realizing that Alonso now has top-tier machinery in his hands.

stormybadger8 said:I’m just sitting here hoping that Massa and that sloppy Turbo Ferrari finally opened the eyes of naive Horner and Matheka.🤣

If this isn't it, then I don't know what is.😂

Everything will come to light in Canada. That's where they should finally decide who the No. 1 driver is at Red Bull, and they need to stick to it strictly—even if it means firing a disobedient No. 2 driver.😬

There’s no other way. They need to be taught a lesson and shown how things actually work, especially since they still have the title in their pocket without breaking a sweat.☕

Otherwise, when you look at the situation:

Because they didn't have team orders, Red Bull only gave up 46 points in Turkey and Britain combined.
Vettel lost 44 points for the exact same reason.
Webber lost 10 points for the same reason.
Compared to Red Bull, who had nothing holding them back, Ferrari lost a massive 89 points because of those team orders.

Seriously, if we look at the facts, if Alonso and Massa had kept chasing each other like Webber and Vettel, a crash would have been almost inevitable.🤣

So, it's team order 89 versus zero team orders.😢

Do you seriously have the nerve to call Ferrari's engine Turbo sloppy? 😂

Amanda Kelly said:Do you seriously have the nerve to call Ferrari's engine Turbo sloppy? 😂

Look, regardless of anything else, Ferrari has been an absolute mess this season, and Alonso has been the biggest mess of the bunch.
☕
You can't expect much more than that from an inexperienced, green Red Bull crew.
Don't go expecting anything besides the usual from a seasoned pro like Webber.
And expecting any kind of serious business from a rookie like Vettel? Yeah, dream on.

But from a battle-hardened two-time World Champion with ten seasons under his belt—driving for a team that's dominated the world driver championship and world constructors championship more times than I can count—you should really expect a lot more professionalism.
☕

stormybadger8 said:Look, regardless of anything else, Ferrari has been an absolute mess this season, and Alonso has been the biggest mess of the bunch.
☕
You can't expect much more than that from an inexperienced, green Red Bull crew.
Don't go expecting anything besides the usual from a seasoned pro like Webber.
And expecting any kind of serious business from a rookie like Vettel? Yeah, dream on.

But from a battle-hardened two-time World Champion with ten seasons under his belt—driving for a team that's dominated the world driver championship and world constructors championship more times than I can count—you should really expect a lot more professionalism.
☕

As soon as the Italians started pridefully snatching up those lead positions, it was clear such nonsense was bound to happen.

Domenicali isn't any better than Horner, but then again, you do have one driver who is noticeably faster than the other. 😁

stormyviper11 said:This whole mess with team orders and those idiotic bans is just a direct result of one guy, Rubens Barrichello, acting like a total loose cannon while he was on the ground in Austria. That scandal was so bad he should've been fired on the spot.

Look, if I’m dumping hundreds of millions of dollars into a business every single year, I have every right to decide how my drivers—who are being paid a fortune just for the privilege of driving for me—cross the finish line. In any real American corporation, if an employee acted out like that—publicly undermining management and making it obvious they don't give a damn about following orders right in front of investors and partners—they’d be kicked to the curb immediately.

Because of these stupid rules, we had to sit through that pathetic excuse for a press conference yesterday where the drivers were basically forced to dodge or ignore every question. Honestly, I really hope Ferrari hits Massa where it hurts financially for repeating a slightly toned-down version of Barrichello's nonsense... if they don't just fire him outright.

I'll allow myself the luxury of disagreeing with you. 😁😁

So, here is the breakdown:
1) The world driver championship
2) The world constructors championship

In the first, there are 24 potential champions; in the second, there are 12. Yesterday, that pool of 24 theoretical title contenders was whittled down to 23. As it stood, both Massa and Alonso still had a mathematical shot at the title.

Ultimately, a team's interest boils down to whether one of their drivers secures the world driver championship. Regarding the world constructors championship, yesterday's turn of events changes nothing. Sure, they could have bumped into each other a bit more, but hasn't there been enough of that already this season? 😁

However, by acting this way, Ferrari has directly undermined the integrity of the world driver championship. Had there been no intervention, the title race would still be intense; instead, we're left with a driver in a top-tier team who is effectively irrelevant to the standings.

Of course, my arguments sounded much more convincing while I was driving home... 😁 😁

silvercobra68 said:Fettel has two main issues.

First; he often messes up right at the start, then he panics, his adrenaline spikes, and he turns into a complete idiot by lunging at his rival. He pulled the exact same stunt on Webber. He lacks maturity. And honestly, in my opinion, he's a bit dim.

I was convinced Alonso was going to run him down after the race, just like he did to Massa at Nürburgring back in 2007, but clearly, he had other things on his mind once the race ended; he probably cooled off.

I’d just add that Vettel shoving Alonso into the wall yesterday was basically on par with that legendary move where Senna started building his reputation as an unsportsmanlike driver at Estoril—the one that basically nuked his relationship with Prost. Though, granted, this happened at a much lower speed.

Amy Brooks said:It feels like Gilles Villeneuve would have sold his soul just to get a shot at motorsport
while Senna seems to spend half his life walking the stretch from Brazil back to the birthplace of racing
wondering why a lesser driver gets the seat while pure talent is left watching from the grandstands.
But fine, I suppose this conversation belongs in Joey's corner of the internet instead.

So, what was the peak achievement for that relative of yours? Did he ever make it out to the big leagues?

There are definitely people who fought their way into F1 from pretty modest backgrounds through pure grit and raw skill. Alonso and Webber are prime examples of that today. But let's be real—money is what actually makes the cars fast; talent is just a tiny slice of the pie.

I don't know what happened with that guy. After his cousin dumped him, I used to see his name popping up in race reports for a bit. Now, I'm guessing he hung up the helmet and went into a regular 9-to-5...

stormybadger8 said:Look, regardless of anything else, Ferrari has been an absolute mess this season, and Alonso has been the biggest mess of the bunch.
☕
You can't expect much more than that from an inexperienced, green Red Bull crew.
Don't go expecting anything besides the usual from a seasoned pro like Webber.
And expecting any kind of serious business from a rookie like Vettel? Yeah, dream on.

But from a battle-hardened two-time World Champion with ten seasons under his belt—driving for a team that's dominated the world driver championship and world constructors championship more times than I can count—you should really expect a lot more professionalism.
☕

Look, in the last race, both of our drivers managed to move up one spot compared to their qualifying positions, while your guys dropped two.
You guys have a way more dominant car—well, except for that last race—but what’s the actual advantage here? A measly 13 points. It's honestly laughable.

stormybadger8 said:Look, regardless of anything else, Ferrari has been an absolute mess this season, and Alonso has been the biggest mess of the bunch.
☕
You can't expect much more than that from an inexperienced, green Red Bull crew.
Don't go expecting anything besides the usual from a seasoned pro like Webber.
And expecting any kind of serious business from a rookie like Vettel? Yeah, dream on.

But from a battle-hardened two-time World Champion with ten seasons under his belt—driving for a team that's dominated the world driver championship and world constructors championship more times than I can count—you should really expect a lot more professionalism.
☕

Well, looks like we've gone completely backward. It should have been a clean exit from Turkey, right? But what exactly went down over there?
Hockenheim doesn't have to be the ultimate benchmark, but honestly? It feels more like we're catching up to you than you're pulling away from us.
What would have happened if we weren't such a disorganized mess of a company?

stormybadger8 said:Look, regardless of anything else, Ferrari has been an absolute mess this season, and Alonso has been the biggest mess of the bunch.
☕
You can't expect much more than that from an inexperienced, green Red Bull crew.
Don't go expecting anything besides the usual from a seasoned pro like Webber.
And expecting any kind of serious business from a rookie like Vettel? Yeah, dream on.

But from a battle-hardened two-time World Champion with ten seasons under his belt—driving for a team that's dominated the world driver championship and world constructors championship more times than I can count—you should really expect a lot more professionalism.
☕

Two-time world champion Fernando Alonso is basically a PhD in driving science compared to those fanatics you call fans.