EU, June 25–27, "Miami street Circuit

stormyviper11 said:Frauds and snake oil salesmen have always been part of the charm and flavor of Formula 1. Honestly, I kind of miss it today; everything has become way too sterile and overly professional.

I mean, people had this dream of building their own team, they gave it a shot, and they failed. Screw it, even the best ones have been there... At least they tried. Besides, around here, Jergović is treated as some major third player at USF1, rather than just a tiny cog that never even started turning, which if you look at the facts, was...

Trust me, Mladen has forgotten more about Formula 1 than the rest of us combined. Mind you, if you want to be spiteful and say it’s obvious how much he's moved on, I won't exactly step up to protest that too convincingly... 😬 But that's just the fate of anyone working in the public eye where your work is constantly under the microscope. The thing is, Jergović still knows way more and goes much deeper than his current media work suggests. The guy is genuinely part of that small circle of a few dozen people worldwide who are true experts on Formula 1. And considering where he comes from, it's almost hard to wrap your head around how he pulled that off...

They tried, they failed, and then they started making up all sorts of excuses for why they couldn't perform.
Nobody mentioned they only had two incomplete monocoques ready. 😉

Therefore—they're just spin doctors, maybe even frauds.

stormyviper11 said:Frauds and snake oil salesmen have always been part of the charm and flavor of Formula 1. Honestly, I kind of miss it today; everything has become way too sterile and overly professional.

I mean, people had this dream of building their own team, they gave it a shot, and they failed. Screw it, even the best ones have been there... At least they tried. Besides, around here, Jergović is treated as some major third player at USF1, rather than just a tiny cog that never even started turning, which if you look at the facts, was...

Trust me, Mladen has forgotten more about Formula 1 than the rest of us combined. Mind you, if you want to be spiteful and say it’s obvious how much he's moved on, I won't exactly step up to protest that too convincingly... 😬 But that's just the fate of anyone working in the public eye where your work is constantly under the microscope. The thing is, Jergović still knows way more and goes much deeper than his current media work suggests. The guy is genuinely part of that small circle of a few dozen people worldwide who are true experts on Formula 1. And considering where he comes from, it's almost hard to wrap your head around how he pulled that off...

Damn, you stole my punchline there. 😳

stormyviper11 said:Frauds and snake oil salesmen have always been part of the charm and flavor of Formula 1. Honestly, I kind of miss it today; everything has become way too sterile and overly professional.

I mean, people had this dream of building their own team, they gave it a shot, and they failed. Screw it, even the best ones have been there... At least they tried. Besides, around here, Jergović is treated as some major third player at USF1, rather than just a tiny cog that never even started turning, which if you look at the facts, was...

Trust me, Mladen has forgotten more about Formula 1 than the rest of us combined. Mind you, if you want to be spiteful and say it’s obvious how much he's moved on, I won't exactly step up to protest that too convincingly... 😬 But that's just the fate of anyone working in the public eye where your work is constantly under the microscope. The thing is, Jergović still knows way more and goes much deeper than his current media work suggests. The guy is genuinely part of that small circle of a few dozen people worldwide who are true experts on Formula 1. And considering where he comes from, it's almost hard to wrap your head around how he pulled that off...

IMHO—you've overestimated him significantly.

I don't know the guy personally, but I feel justified in offering my own opinion based on watching Formula 1 alongside Mladen Jergović over the last few years.

The "level of knowledge" (😁) presented by MJ on Studio 1 isn't any higher than the "level of knowledge" found on this subforum. Every now and then he'll drop something he picked up from foreign forums or websites, and that's usually the peak of the insight we see from MJ.

When dealing with an alleged expert, I definitely expect more than just publicly available information.

PS: The race topic can be locked.

PPS: What was MJ's actual role in the Formula 1 world that he loves to boast about so much?

PPPS: Can the favorite moderator 🙏 move this to a separate thread?

I know whining isn't exactly a crowd-pleaser, but I don't think anyone can really argue with this one:

"Those who don't respect the rules are others, while I am the ninth."

Because that's exactly how it played out.

Sep, just lock this thread down. I'm sick of reading about Alonso and all these other crybabies :muddo:

Jason Campbell70 said:I know whining isn't exactly a crowd-pleaser, but I don't think anyone can really argue with this one:

"Those who don't respect the rules are others, while I am the ninth."

Because that's exactly how it played out.

And I wouldn't exactly agree.

Hamilton passed the SC—though honestly, was that before or after he hit the track? Not sure. But Alonso definitely, 100%, passed the SC on track once it was out there.

So, by that logic, Alonso is the one breaking the rules.😳

How? Why? Does it even matter?

There have been races where it’s literally like this:
Driver A crashes, limps onto the grass in a totaled car, and tries to make it to the pits.
A few drivers blast past him under yellow flags and dodge a penalty.😳

It's completely nonsensical. The guy driving a wreck through the grass is the problem anyway—he’s got zero chance of finishing, and there's debris everywhere. Plus, the SC has to be on track.

Same deal here. Hamilton is "guilty" because he slowed down and then eventually passed the SC.
But Alonso is also guilty because he passed the SC. And does it matter if he did it at low speed or high speed? What was his lap time? Does any of that actually count?
Not to me, because he passed the SC on the track.

Sorry, but in my book, Alonso is undeniably in the wrong. As for Hamilton, I'm not even 100% sure myself—I honestly don't know what the rulebook says about passing when the SC enters the track in a situation like this.🤷

Still enjoying hitting the same wall over and over? 🤦

Scuderia Ferrari wasn't even on the racing line when Hamilton blew past them
man, it feels like they're still being split up by that damn white line

Michael Lee4 said:Still enjoying hitting the same wall over and over? 🤦

And you're clearly the new kid on the block here 🤔 🤷

it’s always gonna be like that for you... 😁

stormybadger8 said:And I wouldn't exactly agree.

Hamilton passed the SC—though honestly, was that before or after he hit the track? Not sure. But Alonso definitely, 100%, passed the SC on track once it was out there.

So, by that logic, Alonso is the one breaking the rules.😳

How? Why? Does it even matter?

There have been races where it’s literally like this:
Driver A crashes, limps onto the grass in a totaled car, and tries to make it to the pits.
A few drivers blast past him under yellow flags and dodge a penalty.😳

It's completely nonsensical. The guy driving a wreck through the grass is the problem anyway—he’s got zero chance of finishing, and there's debris everywhere. Plus, the SC has to be on track.

Same deal here. Hamilton is "guilty" because he slowed down and then eventually passed the SC.
But Alonso is also guilty because he passed the SC. And does it matter if he did it at low speed or high speed? What was his lap time? Does any of that actually count?
Not to me, because he passed the SC on the track.

Sorry, but in my book, Alonso is undeniably in the wrong. As for Hamilton, I'm not even 100% sure myself—I honestly don't know what the rulebook says about passing when the SC enters the track in a situation like this.🤷

I have no interest in debating who is at fault here.
Race control made their call.

That said—the penalty didn't fit the infraction.

LH took a hit, but when you look at the benefit versus the penalty, he came out way ahead.
Again—let's not get bogged down in who did what.
Let's talk about whether the punishment actually made sense.

stormybadger8 said:And I wouldn't exactly agree.

Hamilton passed the SC—though honestly, was that before or after he hit the track? Not sure. But Alonso definitely, 100%, passed the SC on track once it was out there.

So, by that logic, Alonso is the one breaking the rules.😳

How? Why? Does it even matter?

There have been races where it’s literally like this:
Driver A crashes, limps onto the grass in a totaled car, and tries to make it to the pits.
A few drivers blast past him under yellow flags and dodge a penalty.😳

It's completely nonsensical. The guy driving a wreck through the grass is the problem anyway—he’s got zero chance of finishing, and there's debris everywhere. Plus, the SC has to be on track.

Same deal here. Hamilton is "guilty" because he slowed down and then eventually passed the SC.
But Alonso is also guilty because he passed the SC. And does it matter if he did it at low speed or high speed? What was his lap time? Does any of that actually count?
Not to me, because he passed the SC on the track.

Sorry, but in my book, Alonso is undeniably in the wrong. As for Hamilton, I'm not even 100% sure myself—I honestly don't know what the rulebook says about passing when the SC enters the track in a situation like this.🤷

Does that really sound right to you?
🤦

Michael Lee4 said:Still enjoying hitting the same wall over and over? 🤦

Well, why not? 🤷

We've been hitting the same wall since this forum even existed. 🤣

Jason Campbell70 said:I have no interest in debating who is at fault here.
Race control made their call.

That said—the penalty didn't fit the infraction.

LH took a hit, but when you look at the benefit versus the penalty, he came out way ahead.
Again—let's not get bogged down in who did what.
Let's talk about whether the punishment actually made sense.

Does that really sound right to you?
🤦

Forget "appropriateness." This isn't kindergarten or grade school, and it sure as hell isn't a fairy tale. This is Formula 1.☕
No penalty in Formula 1 has ever actually been "appropriate."☕

Maybe excluding some dirty drivers from the points counts, though even that's debatable. What are you guys even talking about? Forget Alonso, what kind of "appropriate" penalty is this?🙄

The DT penalty for Lewis is done and dusted. But for Alonso? It's a joke, because the infraction was obvious and there's still no penalty.

If things are supposed to be so fair, why doesn't he demand a penalty for himself and his teammate for overtaking the SC on track?
Honestly, it would be a genius move:
Alonso: "Hey Charles, tell him that besides Lewis, both me and Massa jumped the SC too. Since we're all about fairness, go ahead and hand us all a DT." ☕

He'd win over the entire crowd and get massive respect. They wouldn't actually penalize him, obviously, but man, he'd look like a legend.🤣

That would be the actual appropriate penalty for Alonso, Renault, Nelson Piquet, and Flavio Briatore for that mess in Singapore.🙄
Massa was legitimately leading the race they rigged, and he’s the one who lost it all because of that crew. He missed out on the Championship title by a single point—just one point!😉 The only fair punishment is kicking Nelson Piquet out of the sport entirely and flushing Flavio out of Formula 1. That's what we're talking about.🤣

A truly "appropriate" penalty would be stripping Lewis of the title and giving it to Massa, then banning Renault and everyone involved—drivers, staff, managers, even their cousins—for life. Look, there is no such thing as an "appropriate" penalty, Jason Campbell70. Not for big stuff, not for murder, and definitely not for some Formula 1 infraction.

Honestly, what a load of nonsense and smoke and mirrors. 🙏>

You know, there’s actually such a thing as a stop-and-go penalty.

I can't help but wonder how this would have played out if Vettel had been right behind Hamilton. 🙂

I'm sure certain forum users—ahem—would be calling for Hamilton's head at this point. ☕

I don't recall the last time a blatant rule violation was so effective that it didn't just wipe out a penalty, but actually provided an advantage.

Even compared to Michael Schumacher at Silverstone in 1998, this looks like child's play. 😁

Jason Campbell70 said:Honestly, what a load of nonsense and smoke and mirrors. 🙏>

You know, there’s actually such a thing as a stop-and-go penalty.

I can't help but wonder how this would have played out if Vettel had been right behind Hamilton. 🙂

I'm sure certain forum users—ahem—would be calling for Hamilton's head at this point. ☕

I don't recall the last time a blatant rule violation was so effective that it didn't just wipe out a penalty, but actually provided an advantage.

Even compared to Michael Schumacher at Silverstone in 1998, this looks like child's play. 😁

Again, this is pointless. Why even bother with a penalty like that if they're guilty? And I emphasize "if," because looking at the footage, I'm not even sure they are—screw logic, it's about the rules. If we're assuming guilt, the only logical move is a black flag or disqualification. This whole mess is ridiculous; you disqualify someone for cheating, you don't just hand them their old position back (which is exactly what happened to Hamilton, he was put right back where he was before the controversy). Personally, I also think the penalty on Alonso for his jump start was totally inappropriate, and the FIA dragging its feet on it was just as bad. It was a blatant display of unsportsmanlike behavior.

At the end of the day, your favorite driver got screwed by a nonsense penalty just so Alonso could grab more points🙄 in some similar mess involving the SC and the rulebook, which is also completely absurd.

It’s funny how in every single one of these situations regarding penalties—whether issued, unissued, or just plain wrong—Alonso always seems to be right in the center of it.

Jason Campbell70 said:Honestly, what a load of nonsense and smoke and mirrors. 🙏>

You know, there’s actually such a thing as a stop-and-go penalty.

I can't help but wonder how this would have played out if Vettel had been right behind Hamilton. 🙂

I'm sure certain forum users—ahem—would be calling for Hamilton's head at this point. ☕

I don't recall the last time a blatant rule violation was so effective that it didn't just wipe out a penalty, but actually provided an advantage.

Even compared to Michael Schumacher at Silverstone in 1998, this looks like child's play. 😁

Believe it or not, I don't think so. They'd probably be even angrier at Vettel for that than they are at Hamilton.

Honestly, the whole business with the SC and the medical car was a complete circus. Webber crashed on lap 8, and by lap 9, everyone passed him and saw he was standing outside the car, perfectly fine. Then, on lap 10, the SC and the medical car roll out.😕 I have no idea why that medical car even bothered coming out, it makes zero sense.🤷

Besides, I've been way too chill the last few days.
So, I definitely wouldn't be losing my mind.

If I were even slightly hyped up, then yeah...🤣
Then I would've gone absolutely ballistic right at the start of the race.🤣
Anyway, I'm not some hardcore fanatic. I'm mostly here for the trolling on the forum. Getting worked up over Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, etc.—whatever. Think what you want, I've got much smarter things to do with my life than lose my cool being a fan for McLaren or Ferrari.🤣

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather Hamilton had lost a spot or two, just so Vettel could be closer to the lead in the standings.😉

Jason Campbell70 said:Honestly, what a load of nonsense and smoke and mirrors. 🙏>

You know, there’s actually such a thing as a stop-and-go penalty.

I can't help but wonder how this would have played out if Vettel had been right behind Hamilton. 🙂

I'm sure certain forum users—ahem—would be calling for Hamilton's head at this point. ☕

I don't recall the last time a blatant rule violation was so effective that it didn't just wipe out a penalty, but actually provided an advantage.

Even compared to Michael Schumacher at Silverstone in 1998, this looks like child's play. 😁

The famous Singapore 2008—that was even worse, way worse than this. 😉
Nico Rosberg didn't just hold onto the 2nd place he started with; he jumped up nine spots from his starting position.
After pitting under the red lights—which is a blatant rule violation—he ended up in 2nd. That means he didn't just stay where he was, he actually finished better than before the whole mess happened.

So yeah, this isn't the first time, and it won't be the last. 🤣

If Hamilton hadn't slowed down Alonso, then Alonso and Massa would have overtaken SC just like he did. And if Alonso had passed Hamilton on track right after that, everyone would be singing praises about his "masterful driving" and all that nonsense.
The whole drama about overtaking SC would've been completely swept under the rug and probably wouldn't even be mentioned.
Don't blame Alonso because Hamilton overtook SC; blame him because he didn't leave enough room for Alonso to do it himself.

stormybadger8 said:Again, this is pointless. Why even bother with a penalty like that if they're guilty? And I emphasize "if," because looking at the footage, I'm not even sure they are—screw logic, it's about the rules. If we're assuming guilt, the only logical move is a black flag or disqualification. This whole mess is ridiculous; you disqualify someone for cheating, you don't just hand them their old position back (which is exactly what happened to Hamilton, he was put right back where he was before the controversy). Personally, I also think the penalty on Alonso for his jump start was totally inappropriate, and the FIA dragging its feet on it was just as bad. It was a blatant display of unsportsmanlike behavior.

At the end of the day, your favorite driver got screwed by a nonsense penalty just so Alonso could grab more points🙄 in some similar mess involving the SC and the rulebook, which is also completely absurd.

It’s funny how in every single one of these situations regarding penalties—whether issued, unissued, or just plain wrong—Alonso always seems to be right in the center of it.

Believe it or not, I don't think so. They'd probably be even angrier at Vettel for that than they are at Hamilton.

Honestly, the whole business with the SC and the medical car was a complete circus. Webber crashed on lap 8, and by lap 9, everyone passed him and saw he was standing outside the car, perfectly fine. Then, on lap 10, the SC and the medical car roll out.😕 I have no idea why that medical car even bothered coming out, it makes zero sense.🤷

Besides, I've been way too chill the last few days.
So, I definitely wouldn't be losing my mind.

If I were even slightly hyped up, then yeah...🤣
Then I would've gone absolutely ballistic right at the start of the race.🤣
Anyway, I'm not some hardcore fanatic. I'm mostly here for the trolling on the forum. Getting worked up over Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, etc.—whatever. Think what you want, I've got much smarter things to do with my life than lose my cool being a fan for McLaren or Ferrari.🤣

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather Hamilton had lost a spot or two, just so Vettel could be closer to the lead in the standings.😉

The famous Singapore 2008—that was even worse, way worse than this. 😉
Nico Rosberg didn't just hold onto the 2nd place he started with; he jumped up nine spots from his starting position.
After pitting under the red lights—which is a blatant rule violation—he ended up in 2nd. That means he didn't just stay where he was, he actually finished better than before the whole mess happened.

So yeah, this isn't the first time, and it won't be the last. 🤣

If Hamilton hadn't slowed down Alonso, then Alonso and Massa would have overtaken SC just like he did. And if Alonso had passed Hamilton on track right after that, everyone would be singing praises about his "masterful driving" and all that nonsense.
The whole drama about overtaking SC would've been completely swept under the rug and probably wouldn't even be mentioned.
Don't blame Alonso because Hamilton overtook SC; blame him because he didn't leave enough room for Alonso to do it himself.

Nah, he’s actually losing it because Hamilton ended up right back where he started
as if Hamilton returning to that same spot matters to anyone else besides him... 😉

hollowgull5 said:Nah, he’s actually losing it because Hamilton ended up right back where he started
as if Hamilton returning to that same spot matters to anyone else besides him... 😉

I mean, honestly, it’s basically the same thing.🤣

Look, all this drama over nothing is just exhausting. Honestly, it feels stupid to me. Ferrari just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time—and honestly, they aren't even the ones to blame here. It’s on Webber and Smith. That’s the bottom line. If Charles had actually stuck to the rules regarding passing the SC, they probably would have been hit with a penalty too. Instead, they’re out here acting like victims and whining about the penalties everyone else received. Typical.

Honestly, if you ask me, handing out those 5-second penalties to the entire crew just because of something Hamilton did feels way more nonsensical.🙄

I mean, seriously, what the hell? They slap the old man with a 25-second penalty—or maybe it was 20, I can't even remember—for something that is completely debatable. Honestly, it’s highly questionable if an infraction even happened in the first place. But instead of waiting until the end of the race like everyone else, they hit Hamilton with a DT and hand the team 5-second penalties. A 5-second penalty during the race is basically the same thing as the one given after the race. What kind of ridiculous penalty is that? Is it supposed to be "one lap behind Tareq Chandok"? Give me a break.😂

Michael Lee4 said:Sep, just lock this thread down. I'm sick of reading about Alonso and all these other crybabies :muddo:

Alonso :cmi:

@stormybadger8, enjoy your time at the beach, just let that little loudmouth keep running his mouth 🤣

Let the crybabies keep crying, honestly... 🙏🙏🙏

Not sure if you guys saw this, but I was reading yesterday that Webber was actually at fault for the crash—or rather, it was their version of the air duct, or whatever they call it. Apparently, while everyone else just plugs a hole in a Red Bull with an elbow or a knee, this thing gets blocked by just four fingers, leaving nothing but a thumb on the steering wheel. There’s even footage showing Webber blocking the intake right before the impact, which meant he couldn't react in time to dodge Smith 😬

Michael Lee4 said:Not sure if you guys saw this, but I was reading yesterday that Webber was actually at fault for the crash—or rather, it was their version of the air duct, or whatever they call it. Apparently, while everyone else just plugs a hole in a Red Bull with an elbow or a knee, this thing gets blocked by just four fingers, leaving nothing but a thumb on the steering wheel. There’s even footage showing Webber blocking the intake right before the impact, which meant he couldn't react in time to dodge Smith 😬

Nah, it's a feature of the car. That's why they basically gave Webber permanent ownership of the thing. Honestly, if I were driving Vettelov's Luscious Liz, I'd probably pull the same stunt. He definitely did it on purpose. 😬

http://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-car-as-a-gift