EU, June 25–27, "Miami street Circuit

Maria Nelson2 said:Oh, absolutely... Charlie Whiting and the gang wouldn't have even noticed if Mark Webber had smashed into a wall unless a piece of the chassis flew right through their window 🙄 😁 , honestly, it's like Alonso has been acting as their talent agent since 2007, though we only found out during the last race.😂

Of course they'd notice. The real question is whether they'd hand out a penalty right then or wait until the end of the race like they did for everyone else. ☕

Why hasn't their entire squad of 7 or 8 drivers been penalized mid-race? They get hit after the race, but the actual infraction happened at the exact same time as Hamilton's 😉

It probably would've been the same story with Hamilton if Alonso wasn't such a 🙂

stormybadger8 said:Of course they'd notice. The real question is whether they'd hand out a penalty right then or wait until the end of the race like they did for everyone else. ☕

Why hasn't their entire squad of 7 or 8 drivers been penalized mid-race? They get hit after the race, but the actual infraction happened at the exact same time as Hamilton's 😉

It probably would've been the same story with Hamilton if Alonso wasn't such a 🙂

Why? Seriously, why? 😁 😉 They just sit there racking up penalties, taking a little breather, maybe grabbing a drink or stretching their legs before heading back out... only to have it all blow up right at the finish line. 😲 🤣🤣🤣

Amanda Kelly said:We are.
I'm getting zero support here. I can't keep dragging this conversation along by myself.

Honestly, it just hit me how lonely I am in this debate. 🤷 Surely I'm not the only one seeing this!?

Look, I've been a die-hard Red fan for twenty-one years now—but I've finally reached the point where I can't stand how things are being run. This whole thing with Alonso's personality just doesn't mesh with my view of Ferrari as a lifestyle or an ideal.

The guy simply isn't cool. Lauda was cool. Nigel was cool. Prost was cool. Michael Irvin was cool. Even Schumacher was cool—well, except when he was losing his mind at Monza. Felipe took a massive hit to the head at 270km/h. Kimi just eats ice cream and watches the race. And yet, they basically handed the entire team over to a narcissistic, ego-driven individual who, sure, drove well for a little while. 😁

It's tough to admit, but I’d honestly rather see a handful of other drivers—Mark Webber, Robert Kubica, Jenson Button, Kamui Kobayashi, and naturally Felipe Massa—take the title instead of Alonso.

Things are getting heated up again over nothing, honestly. Let's just take it step by step.

Formula 1 is inherently a dangerous sport where people can die or get seriously hurt, simply because of the physical forces involved in crashes. No matter how much safety has improved, you can't just assume everything will turn out fine in accidents like Webber's. In fact, the initial assumption should always be the exact opposite.

That’s precisely why it’s vital for the medical car to get out on track as fast as possible, regardless of where it enters the circuit. And obviously, I don't need to point out that it comes out behind the SC.

In Valencia, they deployed it without hesitation the second the accident was reported. Unfortunately, the timing during the race was incredibly awkward. When the car came out, Hamilton was right there and initially slowed down, but then (in my opinion) decided it didn't apply to him since both cars following him were still on the exit lane from the pits. Alonso was just far enough back that there's no doubt he knew he had to stay behind.

Also, let me remind everyone that Alonso had the most spectacular crash of his career at Interlagos years ago (interestingly, if I recall correctly, Webber got wrecked then too) purely due to youthful arrogance and ignoring yellow flags—basically failing to slow down and slamming into Webber's loose tire. I think he learned back then (and it's the kind of lesson Lewis hasn't quite mastered yet) that some things are non-negotiable, especially the SC and yellow flags.

I think the decision regarding Hamilton took so long because the situation wasn't black and white. If it had been blatant and intentional, like overtaking the SC without permission (which some idiots here are suggesting Alonso should have done), there wouldn't even be a debate about whether the penalty should be a disqualification instead of a drive-through. Here, a violation occurred, but you can genuinely believe it wasn't intentional, so I find the penalty fair and the deliberation time understandable. Luckily for Hamilton, those factors allowed him to keep his spot.

From this angle, it's clear the best move would have been for the SC to signal to Alonso and Massa that they could pass—but on the other hand, until it was confirmed that Webber and anyone else he might have zipped past were safe, safety was the absolute priority, and the race came second. The two Ferrari drivers lost out because of that, but hey, shit happens.

Some people are acting surprised that Ferrari had two cars in the pits at once. Sure, they didn't have that gambling instinct you see with Sauber, but let's be honest, nobody else did either. Kamui Kobayashi got lucky with the circumstances, but it didn't have to go that way. If they were going to pit (which was the logical call 99% of teams would have made), it was better this way than having Massa lose another lap behind the SC.

So, there's a logical explanation for everything, and I don't think anyone made a radical mistake, not even race control, though it would have been nice if they showed a bit more decisiveness. There is also the possibility that a huge mistake was made by race control regarding not releasing Schumacher from the pits (though that was a desperate move by Mercedes anyway, since there's no way that car holds up on soft tires until the end, IMHO). Ferrari has every right to be pissed because they got screwed through no fault of their own.

All this massive attacking on Hamilton for this move is, in my view, excessive. Like I said, it was a debatable situation. That doesn't change my perception of the driver as someone who uses dirty tactics on track to outclass both Senna and Schumacher.

Really solid breakdown, stormyviper11—everything you listed hits the mark and I don't disagree with any of it. My only regret is that you didn't touch upon Alonso and his sheer obsession with Hamilton during that stretch—or just the general state of affairs at Ferrari back then.

redheron12 said:Really solid breakdown, stormyviper11—everything you listed hits the mark and I don't disagree with any of it. My only regret is that you didn't touch upon Alonso and his sheer obsession with Hamilton during that stretch—or just the general state of affairs at Ferrari back then.

Alright, redheron12, what's the deal with Alonso now?
Since stormyviper11 is clearly the ultimate authority here, I guess whatever he says is the absolute truth. He missed mentioning Alonso—which, fine, that's probably the least important part of this whole saga—but should he have added something?

Go ahead, tell me (from your side of things) what he actually should have done in that situation. What would you have done? What would you personally do if you were sitting in his seat?
What makes him different from any other driver? Or is Alonso just in a league of his own?

stormybadger8 said:Sebastian Vettel essentially capitalized on Fernando Alonso’s complaining and that highly questionable penalty handed out to Lewis Hamilton. If you look at the bigger picture, Vettel is actually the biggest winner here. It’s incredibly hard to imagine how a genuine championship fight with Hamilton would have unfolded if that DT penalty hadn't been served.

If we’re looking at this realistically, Vettel’s main battle would have likely been against Alonso rather than Hamilton. That said, I find it highly improbable that we would have seen any actual overtaking between those three on a track like this, especially given how similar their strategies were. You seem to be overlooking the fact that Alonso was right on Hamilton's heels—and let's not forget Hamilton had to pit for a nose change. With current pit stops averaging around four seconds, even after a spoiler adjustment, he would have emerged just behind Alonso. It wasn't just Vettel who came out on top here; Hamilton benefited significantly too. To put it bluntly, the guy just got incredibly lucky this time around.

Amanda Kelly said:Alright, redheron12, what's the deal with Alonso now?
Since stormyviper11 is clearly the ultimate authority here, I guess whatever he says is the absolute truth. He missed mentioning Alonso—which, fine, that's probably the least important part of this whole saga—but should he have added something?

Go ahead, tell me (from your side of things) what he actually should have done in that situation. What would you have done? What would you personally do if you were sitting in his seat?
What makes him different from any other driver? Or is Alonso just in a league of his own?

The real issue here is that when things go sideways, the average fan of a particular team tends to lose their cool far more intensely than the drivers or the teams themselves. To capitalize on that friction, a team might throw out a few extra biting remarks or some pseudo-ironic jabs at a rival driver just to spike the tension and boost their visibility—because, let's face it, bad publicity is still publicity. Then, much like a savvy old-school American football coach checking the bottom line, they simply glance at their bank account and settle into a state of blissful nirvana.

Amanda Kelly said:Alright, redheron12, what's the deal with Alonso now?
Since stormyviper11 is clearly the ultimate authority here, I guess whatever he says is the absolute truth. He missed mentioning Alonso—which, fine, that's probably the least important part of this whole saga—but should he have added something?

Go ahead, tell me (from your side of things) what he actually should have done in that situation. What would you have done? What would you personally do if you were sitting in his seat?
What makes him different from any other driver? Or is Alonso just in a league of his own?

Why the sudden intensity?

stormyviper11 isn't an authority, per se—but I would be genuinely interested to hear his take on Ferrari's current form and whether they actually stand a chance at the title.

And while we're at it, I'd love to know his thoughts on Alonso and this whole ongoing drama—is this just typical behavior, or is there some deep-seated personal friction going on? Also, where does he see Alonso fitting into the long-term structure at Ferrari?

redheron12 said:Why the sudden intensity?

stormyviper11 isn't an authority, per se—but I would be genuinely interested to hear his take on Ferrari's current form and whether they actually stand a chance at the title.

And while we're at it, I'd love to know his thoughts on Alonso and this whole ongoing drama—is this just typical behavior, or is there some deep-seated personal friction going on? Also, where does he see Alonso fitting into the long-term structure at Ferrari?

Look, stormyviper11 is an authority, or at least someone whose opinion carries more weight than most, for good reason.

You're kind of contradicting yourself here. 😁

Alonso and Massa are overtaking the silver Mercedes on track. Check out the footage at 0.24-0.42 😳

Anyway, I just watched the whole clip and reached a conclusion: they need at least a 25-second penalty 🤣

I’m calling for a 25-second penalty for Massa and a disqualification for Alonso because I've never seen anyone overtake the medical car under yellow flags before 🤣 🤣 😂

You can clearly see both of them overtaking the other silver Mercedes 😳

Sure, the first guy doesn't pass, but the second one is right behind him, which makes them both guilty 😬

stormybadger8 said:Alonso and Massa are overtaking the silver Mercedes on track. Check out the footage at 0.24-0.42 😳

Anyway, I just watched the whole clip and reached a conclusion: they need at least a 25-second penalty 🤣

I’m calling for a 25-second penalty for Massa and a disqualification for Alonso because I've never seen anyone overtake the medical car under yellow flags before 🤣 🤣 😂

You can clearly see both of them overtaking the other silver Mercedes 😳

Sure, the first guy doesn't pass, but the second one is right behind him, which makes them both guilty 😬

hehe 😬 👍

Amanda Kelly said:Look, stormyviper11 is an authority, or at least someone whose opinion carries more weight than most, for good reason.

You're kind of contradicting yourself here. 😁

He would only truly be an authority if he held some kind of executive power within the FIA or FOTA. 🤷

But honestly, if I didn't value his perspective, I wouldn't even bother asking him for a comment in the first place.

This just goes to show how Hamilton basically screwed over the Ferrari duo—whether he did it on purpose or not (though I’m leaning towards it being an accident)... if he hadn't hesitated so much and slowed down right when he should have, all three of them probably would've crossed the line under the SC without a single issue, and everyone would've walked away clean. Instead, he's the only one who ended up with a penalty because he waited way too long to make his move and finally lunged a few meters after it was already illegal...

Alright, now I'm going to go give an "authoritative" answer to that earlier question... 😬

redheron12 said:He would only truly be an authority if he held some kind of executive power within the FIA or FOTA. 🤷

But honestly, if I didn't value his perspective, I wouldn't even bother asking him for a comment in the first place.

In my book, Mladen Jergović is the only real Formula 1 authority in America, even if I find myself clashing with his views more often than not. The rest of us? We're just fans with varying levels of sensible opinions...

stormyviper11 said:In my book, Mladen Jergović is the only real Formula 1 authority in America, even if I find myself clashing with his views more often than not. The rest of us? We're just fans with varying levels of sensible opinions...

I have to say, that sentence is going to stick with me every time I read your posts.

BTW:

d - wonderful
m - mladen
j - jergović

🎉

BTW - Regarding Mladen, those photos showing the unfinished USF1 cars? They reveal the true nature of that crew—charlatans and snake oil salesmen.

Birds of a feather flock together. ☕

Jonathan Booth5 said:1. Let's talk about the points then. F. Alonso: USA, bad start, everything goes wrong (everyone's fault); China, jump start, mental lapse; Monaco—3rd FP, let's put it in words, third free practice, hit the barrier, wrecked the car. Mapet could have been leading if not for his own mental lapses.

2. Why was Teflon only penalized with a DT in China six laps later, while the whole world watched thanks to that same Charlie as the guy zoomed past the Red Bulls? Look, there are specific procedures for deciding penalties, but Hamilton's infraction only became a priority for race control after Teflon's outburst and once they were absolutely certain a violation occurred (Charlie had to request the GPS data for car number 2, the SC, and the medical car, then checked the delta times, and to be certain, even requested footage from the FIA's helicopter, all of which had to be handed over to the stewards).

3. I didn't realize that battling for position and clipping wheels in the first corner was considered "dirty." Hamilton was in a position to attack Vettel, miscalculated, and broke his wing. Is that not enough of a penalty? And since we're discussing dirty play, at least he didn't wreck Vettel's car, which is a far cry from Teflon's mess in Australia, where his stunt nearly took out half of Michael Schumacher's car.

4. Teflon is quite simply a Ferrari failure. After nine races, this guy has made more mistakes and messes than Massa did in his entire career. Naturally, the spoiled brat starts blaming everyone except himself—it's in his nature (as it is with most prima donnas)—because at the end of the year, he has to justify a thirty-plus million dollar salary for a double world champion.

5. I never thought I'd admit this, but I truly feel bad that Michael Schumacher's engine blew in Suzuki 2006. Compared to this absolute clown, he's a real man and a friend, and I know exactly what kind of person Schumacher actually is.

Muddo, you legend 🙏

redheron12 said:Why the sudden intensity?

stormyviper11 isn't an authority, per se—but I would be genuinely interested to hear his take on Ferrari's current form and whether they actually stand a chance at the title.

And while we're at it, I'd love to know his thoughts on Alonso and this whole ongoing drama—is this just typical behavior, or is there some deep-seated personal friction going on? Also, where does he see Alonso fitting into the long-term structure at Ferrari?

I’m not exactly a fan of how much Alonso whines, but honestly? I get where he’s coming from... I really do. I guess I just wish injustice—you know, like a bad call from the FIA or some freak stroke of luck—was something you could actually settle on the track. But with the way cars, drivers, and tracks are designed these days, that’s clearly not happening anymore. Objectively speaking, the only way Alonso was ever going to pass Buemi on pure pace was if Buemi absolutely blew it... and let's be real, these modern drivers pretty much play it perfect...

Personal beef? Yeah, within reason. No matter how weird it looks to us on the outside, Alonso sees Hamilton as his ultimate rival for the title—not just this season, but for good. He basically views him as the only driver actually playing in the same league. In Formula 1, your focus always lands on the one opponent you respect the most. If we look back at the whole Senna and Prost era, even Schumacher admitted mid-way through the nineties that he was genuinely only worried about two guys: Häkkinen and Barrichello. To put it in plain English, those were the only two he truly respected as being on his level. It was obvious that Hill or Villeneuve were snatching titles because they had the better cars, but those two were the real danger. Mika proved it later on, and Schumacher handled Rubens in a much more subtle, sophisticated way... Honestly, if that Brazilian hadn't jumped ship to Ferrari and instead became the lead driver at McLaren after Häkkinen left, who knows how things would have played out. Maybe Rubens would have finally flourished with a tailwind, or maybe he was just destined by his own nature to always play second fiddle, no matter where he ended up...

Alonso found himself in a pretty similar spot once before. Purely in terms of raw driving talent, he was better than everyone on the grid except for Schumacher—and back in 2006, he proved he could take down "The Greatest" not because his car was inherently superior, but simply because he outclassed him by running a more consistent season... Then, just as he reaches the top of the world, he gets this insane stroke of bad luck where his new teammate the following year turns out to be a rookie who’s actually right there at his level. Fast forward to today, and Alonso sees Hamilton as the only driver truly worthy of being his rival, constantly measuring his own limits against him. It’s that weird mix of mutual respect and pure contempt... honestly, it reminds me of the whole Prost and Senna thing. I still remember how Senna perfectly captured it when he called Prost "my intimate enemy"...

How much does this actually matter this year? Quite a bit. Sure, Red Bull is still tearing it up in practice, but once the lights go out for the race, those gaps basically vanish. When you look at development, nobody touches Ferrari or McLaren when it comes to evolving the car mid-season. It’s honestly not even a stretch to think both teams will be consistently ahead of Red Bull by the time we hit the home stretch... Plus, Red Bull is stuck with two drivers who are constantly tripping over each other, and let's be real—neither of them is on the same level as Hamilton or Alonso yet, even if Vettel might eventually get there. Alonso knows exactly what Ferrari has under the hood, and he's got every reason to believe they're about to make a massive leap forward. If they do, he’s smart enough to realize Hamilton is the guy he really needs to watch out for. As for the rest of the grid... Vettel has raw speed, but lacks the tactical brain (for now). Webber doesn't have the speed or the brains; he just has a fast car and enough ego to barely squeeze into the cockpit. Button has the brains, but lacks the sheer pace. Hamilton has both, though he tends to lose the smarts every once in a while. Then you've got Alonso, who has everything (or at least did until this year), plus a teammate he's already pretty much turned into a supporting act. I'm not entirely sure why he's been making more mistakes this season than in recent years... part of it was definitely just bad luck and messy circumstances, but I truly believe if things settle down a bit, he can absolutely shake up the championship again. Honestly, he would've finished at least second—maybe even first since Vettel tends to crumble under pressure—if it hadn't been for that safety car. It just goes to show his faith in himself and Ferrari isn't misplaced...

So, what’s his actual role at Ferrari? I really hope it’s way more significant than what it was for Massa or Kimi, because honestly, I think the guys at Ferrari know perfectly well that having him as the leader could be the foundation for a whole new era of dominance. You can already see hints that they’re transitioning into an "Alonso-centric" squad, much like they used to be when everything revolved around Schumacher... It feels like he’s doing a killer job on the internal side of things. Unfortunately, though, his performance on the track this year hasn't been quite there, which sucks. In previous seasons, I was definitely in his corner—I always felt like supporting whoever was actually driving the best that year. I mean, I even backed Schumacher back in 2003 for that exact reason; he earned that title through sheer grit, way more than Kimi or Montoya ever did. But this year, I'm starting to lose that connection. Honestly, my sympathies are leaning more toward Kubica lately... he's got that spark, driving with that same brilliance Alonso used to show. Though, I guess he’s following in Alonso's footsteps with that habit of constantly tearing down his own team, which is a trait of Alonso's that I can't stand... it's way worse than just regular complaining.

Jason Campbell70 said:I have to say, that sentence is going to stick with me every time I read your posts.

BTW:

d - wonderful
m - mladen
j - jergović

🎉

BTW - Regarding Mladen, those photos showing the unfinished USF1 cars? They reveal the true nature of that crew—charlatans and snake oil salesmen.

Birds of a feather flock together. ☕

Frauds and snake oil salesmen have always been part of the charm and flavor of Formula 1. Honestly, I kind of miss it today; everything has become way too sterile and overly professional.

I mean, people had this dream of building their own team, they gave it a shot, and they failed. Screw it, even the best ones have been there... At least they tried. Besides, around here, Jergović is treated as some major third player at USF1, rather than just a tiny cog that never even started turning, which if you look at the facts, was...

Trust me, Mladen has forgotten more about Formula 1 than the rest of us combined. Mind you, if you want to be spiteful and say it’s obvious how much he's moved on, I won't exactly step up to protest that too convincingly... 😬 But that's just the fate of anyone working in the public eye where your work is constantly under the microscope. The thing is, Jergović still knows way more and goes much deeper than his current media work suggests. The guy is genuinely part of that small circle of a few dozen people worldwide who are true experts on Formula 1. And considering where he comes from, it's almost hard to wrap your head around how he pulled that off...

stormybadger8 said:Alonso and Massa are overtaking the silver Mercedes on track. Check out the footage at 0.24-0.42 😳

Anyway, I just watched the whole clip and reached a conclusion: they need at least a 25-second penalty 🤣

I’m calling for a 25-second penalty for Massa and a disqualification for Alonso because I've never seen anyone overtake the medical car under yellow flags before 🤣 🤣 😂

You can clearly see both of them overtaking the other silver Mercedes 😳

Sure, the first guy doesn't pass, but the second one is right behind him, which makes them both guilty 😬

Alonso: They conspired against us and rigged the results
He even overtook the medical car while there were yellow flags out



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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man
what an absolute piece of trash 🤮