Bahrain Grand Prix (Outer Loop) | December 4-6, 2020

If you're saying the car needs that much tweaking just because the driver isn't sitting in it every single weekend, then how exactly does Hulkenberg manage to drive just as well as Stroll?

Look, there’s no making excuses for Russell. I actually really like the guy—probably more than anyone else on this sub (more than even the guys over at 😁)—and I'm convinced his driving talent was already obvious in the junior categories. This streak of qualifying dominance isn't some fluke. Just because his teammates got lucky in one race and managed to snag a point ahead of him doesn't mean anything to me...

But putting all that aside, he's finally got a real shot to prove himself, especially if he gets two races under his belt. No sense in making excuses here; everyone expects him to perform at the level we know Bottas can deliver.

The outcome remains entirely within their control 🤷

graniteharbor502 said:How on earth could you claim that Button was inferior in 2011? What kind of nonsense is that?

Well, if I may, I’d really love it if you could try to maintain at least some semblance of consistent criteria here. It feels a bit all over the place when someone is suddenly considered better just because they racked up more points in a single season, then suddenly the standard shifts to who left a better impression on you personally, and then somehow changes again based on how tough their teammate was.

If we're going by that logic—that Button is better simply because he scored more points—then I suppose Lewis Hamilton would have to be the greatest of all time since he holds the record for most points across the most championships.

It's just hard to follow when the goalposts keep moving like this. 😉

stormybadger8 said:Things could go south fast here...
And honestly, Lewis Hamilton sitting this one out might be the turning point for several F1 careers...

First off, Valtteri Bottas could lose his seat if George Russell proves he's actually better—and given Bottas' recent form, that’s not even a crazy thought...
I mean, Russell isn't exactly a stranger to the Mercedes setup or the car...
If that happens, Mercedes wouldn't have much of a dilemma. They're already grooming Russell for the seat anyway, and he's got enough F1 experience under his belt...
So, I wouldn't be shocked if Russell pulls off a stellar result and instantly snags that 2021 Mercedes seat, regardless of whatever contract Bottas currently holds...

Secondly, since Russell is basically pulling a Hulk situation where he can't seem to grab a single point, this could be a massive setback. He might even start looking at an exit from F1 altogether...
It would be pretty brutal if he fails to bag that famous first point even while driving a Mercedes. It gets even worse if Jack Aitken (who's subbing for him) manages to snatch a point for Williams this season... 🤦
And it's totally possible, because Williams could actually show some life on this outer lap 😳
What kind of message does that send about Russell and Nicholas Latifi constantly failing to score? You've got Russell failing even in a Mercedes, while Aitken jumps in and grabs a point on a whim 🤦

Hold up. Jack Aitken hasn't even sat in the car yet and you're already counting his points

Here's how it'll actually go

Bottas Top 3
Russell Top 10
Jack Aitken Top 19

Is Lewis Hamilton actually lurking on this forum? If so, show yourself.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:Honestly, I find it a little bit baffling that it’s actually this difficult for some people to just click a link and see what's going on. I mean, really, the link is right there along with a description of the content, and we're all following the forum rules perfectly fine, so I suppose I shouldn't necessarily have to provide a detailed diagram explaining every single thing just because someone might be feeling a bit too lazy to spend thirty seconds glancing at it themselves, don't you think?

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....1/drivers.html

1 Sebastian Vettel GER Red Bull Racing Renault 392
2 Jenson Button GBR GBR McLaren Mercedes 270 3 270
3 Mark Webber AUS Red Bull Racing Renault 258
4 Fernando Alonso ESP Ferrari 257
5 Lewis Hamilton GBR GBR McLaren Mercedes 227 227

By what strange distortion of space and time could one possibly claim that a forty-three point advantage held by Button constitutes a lesser achievement? 🙄

stormybadger8 said:Carlos Sainz is basically on Valtteri Bottas' level...
Take that how you want.

As for Max, I don't see any comparison between him moving from STR to Red Bull Racing and some hypothetical scenario where he jumps from Red Bull Racing straight into a Mercedes...
I honestly don't see the connection.🤔

Red Bull Racing and STR are essentially the same organization. They’re structured identically, the cars are incredibly similar, and they probably even use the same procedures...
At the end of the day, you've got the same kid driving one or the other; the only difference is the raw power and quality of the car.
Everything regarding the actual driving—setup and all that jazz—is almost certainly identical.
Ultimately, Red Bull Racing was designed as a training ground for their drivers, so it makes perfect sense that everything is set up the exact same way... it would be weird if it wasn't.

The only question is whether you actually believe this or not. If not, nice trolling. If you do, then the question is which sport you've been watching for the last few decades.

The Safety Car has been out way too many laps just because of one broken nose cone... 🤔

graniteharbor502 said:https://www.formula1.com/en/results....1/drivers.html

1 Sebastian Vettel GER Red Bull Racing Renault 392
2 Jenson Button GBR GBR McLaren Mercedes 270 3 270
3 Mark Webber AUS Red Bull Racing Renault 258
4 Fernando Alonso ESP Ferrari 257
5 Lewis Hamilton GBR GBR McLaren Mercedes 227 227

By what strange distortion of space and time could one possibly claim that a forty-three point advantage held by Button constitutes a lesser achievement? 🙄

Well, maybe it's just because I'm trying to look at the bigger picture here instead of obsessing solely over the points tally.

Everything you need to know is right there in the link, which shouldn't be too hard to wrap your head around; just take a look, and if it still feels a bit fuzzy, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure why you're acting like this is some unsolvable mystery.

It’s almost like asking me—by what logic or what kind of warping of reality and common sense could anyone possibly argue that Lewis Hamilton isn't the greatest of all time, especially when he holds the record for most titles, most wins, most poles, and really just most everything else? 🤔

Quote:>

shadowmarlin22 says: ....... Setting all that aside, he finally has a real chance to step up—especially if he manages to get behind the wheel for two races. >There’s no making excuses here; everyone is going to expect him to deliver at least the level we've seen from Valtteri Bottas.>>

At the end of the day, he'll be driving exactly how Toto Wolff tells him to.
Mercedes-AMG Petronas is pinning its hopes on this new prospect, but there's a massive catch: he can't afford to perform any better than Lewis Hamilton did while driving Lewis Hamilton's car.

Lance Stroll should be able to clear Esteban Ocon without much trouble; hopefully, we see a 1-2 finish for Racing Point.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:Well, maybe it's just because I'm trying to look at the bigger picture here instead of obsessing solely over the points tally.

Everything you need to know is right there in the link, which shouldn't be too hard to wrap your head around; just take a look, and if it still feels a bit fuzzy, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure why you're acting like this is some unsolvable mystery.

It’s almost like asking me—by what logic or what kind of warping of reality and common sense could anyone possibly argue that Lewis Hamilton isn't the greatest of all time, especially when he holds the record for most titles, most wins, most poles, and really just most everything else? 🤔

What relevance does a link comparing two drivers based on arbitrary criteria hold when the primary metric should undoubtedly be the total number of points earned? When placed in the exact same car during the same season, Jenson Button actually holds 43 more points. Nuff said.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:Well, maybe it's just because I'm trying to look at the bigger picture here instead of obsessing solely over the points tally.

Everything you need to know is right there in the link, which shouldn't be too hard to wrap your head around; just take a look, and if it still feels a bit fuzzy, I'd be more than happy to walk you through it.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure why you're acting like this is some unsolvable mystery.

It’s almost like asking me—by what logic or what kind of warping of reality and common sense could anyone possibly argue that Lewis Hamilton isn't the greatest of all time, especially when he holds the record for most titles, most wins, most poles, and really just most everything else? 🤔

If we are talking strictly about results, then yes, that is true. However, is it not also true that he was fortunate enough to pilot the most dominant machine in history for seven consecutive seasons? Even during those seven years, he still managed to lose a championship to a driver who had never been a world champion before. That certainly gives one pause when considering the claim that he is the greatest of all time...

stormybadger8 said:Carlos Sainz is basically on Valtteri Bottas' level...
Take that how you want.

As for Max, I don't see any comparison between him moving from STR to Red Bull Racing and some hypothetical scenario where he jumps from Red Bull Racing straight into a Mercedes...
I honestly don't see the connection.🤔

Red Bull Racing and STR are essentially the same organization. They’re structured identically, the cars are incredibly similar, and they probably even use the same procedures...
At the end of the day, you've got the same kid driving one or the other; the only difference is the raw power and quality of the car.
Everything regarding the actual driving—setup and all that jazz—is almost certainly identical.
Ultimately, Red Bull Racing was designed as a training ground for their drivers, so it makes perfect sense that everything is set up the exact same way... it would be weird if it wasn't.

Giancarlo Fisichella is miles ahead of Valter Bottas as a driver. It's a proven fact.

I’ve got a feeling we’re looking at another SC coming our way very soon.

graniteharbor502 said:What relevance does a link comparing two drivers based on arbitrary criteria hold when the primary metric should undoubtedly be the total number of points earned? When placed in the exact same car during the same season, Jenson Button actually holds 43 more points. Nuff said.

If we are talking strictly about results, then yes, that is true. However, is it not also true that he was fortunate enough to pilot the most dominant machine in history for seven consecutive seasons? Even during those seven years, he still managed to lose a championship to a driver who had never been a world champion before. That certainly gives one pause when considering the claim that he is the greatest of all time...

Plus, if you look at the podiums, Jenson hit them twice as often as Hamilton did that year (12 for Jenson vs. just 6 for Lewis).

fadedwalker18 said:Giancarlo Fisichella is miles ahead of Valter Bottas as a driver. It's a proven fact.

And how exactly was that "proven"?

Come on—drop even one shred of evidence!

Let's go, Sergio Perez!

graniteharbor502 said:What relevance does a link comparing two drivers based on arbitrary criteria hold when the primary metric should undoubtedly be the total number of points earned? When placed in the exact same car during the same season, Jenson Button actually holds 43 more points. Nuff said.

If we are talking strictly about results, then yes, that is true. However, is it not also true that he was fortunate enough to pilot the most dominant machine in history for seven consecutive seasons? Even during those seven years, he still managed to lose a championship to a driver who had never been a world champion before. That certainly gives one pause when considering the claim that he is the greatest of all time...

If we're deciding the greatest based solely on championship titles, then Lewis Hamilton is undoubtedly the GOAT.

However, if you look at it through the lens of having lost the fewest championships, Lewis Hamilton still takes the crown, since he won 7 out of 14 seasons—which is a 50% success rate—while Michael Schumacher comes in second, winning 7 out of 17 seasons, which is arguably a bit lower than Hamilton's 50%.

The table I shared is actually a pretty detailed numerical breakdown of their head-to-head matchups, which I think tries to account for things like luck or mechanical failures, aiming to answer who the better driver truly is rather than just who has been more successful in Formula 1.

ruggedhawk20 said:And how exactly was that "proven"?

Come on—drop even one shred of evidence!

He proved himself back in '97 and '98, showing he had the raw talent and potential. He just never quite hit the jackpot in Formula 1 to truly cement his status as the GOAT.

Russell is likely looking at a penalty—so what's the point in expecting anything at all?