The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)

rapidstag74 said:There’s this one line from the first Matrix movie: "I'm going to show them a world without you."
Man, I don't know, it honestly feels like Neo completely blanked on that line, and what was he thinking with the Wachowskis? Because we didn't actually get to see that world, and neither did the billions of other people who stayed stuck inside the simulation. What was the actual point of those two sequels? It definitely wasn't about liberating humanity from their chains. And here I was, being a total sucker, actually believing Neo was going to set everyone free.

The real takeaway is that it's all about compromise; since the machines didn't exactly come across as that evil when you look at the Animatrix: Second Renaissance parts 1 and 2.

If anyone is actually curious about the lore and why the Matrix was built in the first place, they should really check out those shorts—the whole mythology works so much better if you watch all three films, all nine of those animated shorts, and even play through the whole Enter the Matrix game.

Richard Hernandez13 said:The point is. Compromise. A polite word for losing.The machines didn't perform. That's all. To those struggling to get it—watch *Animatrix: The Second Renaissance*, parts 1 and 2.

Damn. It wasn't in the instructions. 😁

If anyone actually cares about the "who" and "why" behind the Matrix, they should just go back and read that previous thread. You aren't going to grasp the mythology unless you sit through all three films, the nine animated shorts, and play the entire Enter the Matrix game. It’s all connected.

Heh. You can bet they would. 😁 Maybe there's still some hidden solution tucked away in the official Matrix branded helmets, t-shirts, or coffee mugs.

Heh, wouldn't they like that? Maybe there's still some secret fix tucked away in the official Matrix branded VR headsets, t-shirts, or coffee mugs?

He he, and then you've got thematrixonline, where die-hard fans will go looking for answers to basic questions for like 50 bucks a month 😁

rapidstag74 said:Heh, wouldn't they like that? 😁 Maybe there’s still some secret solution tucked away inside the official Matrix branded hats, t-shirts, and coffee mugs?

Oh, you bet there is, because let's be honest—those hats, shirts, and mugs are basically the sacred icons of the evangelical neo-turbo-confuci-buddha-ism movement.😁

I have this nagging suspicion that we’re going to see yet another Matrix sequel, even though crafting an ending that actually satisfies everyone feels like a mathematical impossibility—I mean, does anyone honestly want a perfectly tidy resolution where every single character just lives happily ever after? Someone else already pointed out that compromise is basically baked into the DNA of the story, which makes sense when you consider that in our own lives, we're constantly forced to strike these awkward middle grounds with technology; after all, who would actually choose to live like a caveman when we're already being slowly steamrolled by our own machines?

rapidstag74 said:Heh, wouldn't they like that? 😁 I mean, who knows, maybe there's some other hidden solution tucked away inside the official Matrix branded headsets, t-shirts, or coffee mugs?

Anyway, enough of my rambling.

I honestly can't recommend watching *The Animatrix* enough if you actually want to wrap your head around this whole mess.
In my humble opinion, the mythology of the Matrix—when you look at the films, the video games, the anime, and the comics (you can find them all on the official site)—is so much more cohesive and makes way more sense than, say, the *Star Wars*😈 Expanded Universe.

I mean, yeah, I'll give them this: Animatrix is solid—like, at least five of those shorts hit the spot. But honestly? It’s really just for the animation nerds and people obsessed with anime. Since I'm into that stuff, I dig it. But the game? Total nonsense. You basically have to already be a hardcore gamer, own a PlayStation or something, and just happen to care about it existing in the first place. They basically ignored a huge chunk of the population with that move.

Face it, dude, they're just milking everybody like cows!

I’ve pretty much decided to just scrub Reloaded from my memory entirely. I'd rather just pretend it was the end of Galvatron's whole thing where everyone ends up a robot anyway. 😁

Richard Hernandez13 said:Now I'm worried.

I’d actually suggest watching The Animatrix if you want to make sense of this whole mess.
In my opinion, the Matrix mythology—spread across the films, games, anime, and comics (all available on the official site)—is much more cohesive and logical than, say, the Star Wars😈 Expanded Universe.

Trust me, you don't need the Expanded Universe to understand Star Wars. If anything, I'd recommend avoiding that junk altogether. If George Lucas isn't reading it, neither am I.

I'll check out The Animatrix, but I hate that I'm forced to watch shorts, play games, and consume other money-making fluff just to grasp the movies.

rapidstag74 says:

Which part of the script?

Seriously, what part of the script are you talking about? Obviously the scene where Neo throws up. Honestly, after reading comments like yours, I'm just wondering how anyone could be this clueless.

Christian Perez10 said:rapidstag74 replies:

Which part of the script?

What part of the script? Obviously the scene where Neo gets sick—though after reading comments like yours, I'm not sure anyone would have much of an appetite left. You really are clueless.

Go ahead, stay angry. Here’s a quote from Revolutions just to show you things aren't all bleak...
"Your puny powers are no match for my Tiger Fist technique" – Big-Machine-Head to Neo.

amberjackal49 said:I honestly feel like the criticism is unnecessary because this movie didn't just shake up the entire Hollywood industry, it proved that human imagination truly knows no bounds. Regarding the plot, I’ll admit it isn't perfectly seamless, but those little gaps are impossible to fill because they touch upon fundamental questions that have haunted our civilization since its very beginning.
The film focuses most heavily on the special effects, which have been polished to absolute perfection, and if anyone is looking for cheap, predictable little stories, they should probably just stick to reading some light romance novels.
For anyone who can't seem to appreciate or grasp the director's vision, perhaps finding some lighter reading would be more their speed.
PLEASE DON'T COMMENT ON THE MOVIE IF YOU HAVEN'T ACTUALLY WATCHED IT

If imagination really has no limits, then I suppose we couldn't say that in this third installment—it feels more like the imagination was actually quite constrained... a good portion of the movie feels reminiscent of Star Wars, while the other part just drags on from what we already saw in the first one, though I have to admit a few things really missed the mark this time around.

As for the whole debate about effort and appreciation, that seems like a completely different conversation that doesn't quite belong here, I think... so if you find the film to be pure madness, that's fine by me, even if I didn't enjoy it myself, especially since I thought the first two were actually quite good!!

rapidstag74 said:Believe me, you don't need the Star Wars Expanded Universe to actually grasp what's going on in the movies. Honestly, I’d suggest staying far away from all that junk; if George Lucas isn't reading it, I certainly won't be either.

I think I'll give Animatrix a shot, but I really can't stand the idea that I have to watch Animatrix, play some video game, and jump through all these other little cash-grab hoops just to understand the actual film.

What I was trying to get at is that Animatrix and Enter the Matrix aren't just hollow money-makers; they actually flesh out the movie trilogy much more cohesively than the Star Wars Expanded Universe ever did.

SPOILER

Trinity: Neo, but your eyes.....
Neo: I'm fine, really....
🙄 😁

Olivia Lopez8 said:SPOILER

Trinity: Neo, but your eyes.....
Neo: It's fine....
🙄 😁

Trinity: "Neo, I'm pregnant."
Neo: "I'm... going to be a father?"
Trinity: "Actually... it's Cypher's."
Neo: "Whoa, dude."

I didn't mean to imply that cinema itself has no limits when it comes to the imagination—though saying it does would be a rather foolish thing to claim.
I have to admit, looking back at my own posts, the whole experience might not seem quite as flawless as I’ve made it out to be, but this entire trilogy, which managed to surface from a vast ocean of utterly monotonous movies, simply wouldn't allow me to remain indifferent or hold back my critical edge as I might with other films. The overarching narrative, to say nothing of the special effects, serves as a stark testament to just how desperately dependent humanity has become on machines; even though we're already terrified of where this technological dependency might lead us, we seemingly refuse to pause and actually face the consequences. Meanwhile, various religious undertones are woven into the story, offering a perfect illustration of why most people are constantly searching for some semblance of meaning—much like the search for truth within *The Matrix*. You can interpret a film in countless ways, and that is precisely where its beauty lies; if you choose to limit your view to mere cheap romance or simple action beats, fine, but you're really just doing yourself a disservice.
In the second installment, during that scene where Neo talks to the Architect and the man tells him to look at the machine—stating that while he doesn't understand how it works, he knows they couldn't survive without it—there's a sentiment there that I find hard to argue with: I respect what I cannot comprehend.
Perhaps the creators themselves were worried that their vision might be misunderstood, yet they simultaneously bit off a massive chunk of storytelling just so they could flesh out the details across three parts without sacrificing those high-octane, visually stunning moments.
One could view the film as a depiction of heaven, hell, and purgatory, even if I personally don't subscribe to such nonsense—imagine a world where the simulation is "real life" and everything functions according to design, yet inexplicable anomalies occur, much like our own world, where being unplugged (dying) sends you to a realm that is either the true reality or a middle ground like purgatory. You could even see the concept of evolution as that process of perfecting the simulations discussed in the second film.
Alternatively, you can look at the movie as a video game with multiple levels where your abilities grow stage by stage, or perhaps like a battery powering a damn toy car; however you slice it, the film remains a refreshing jolt after a long period of cinematic stagnation.
And please, let's not have anyone pulling specific details out of context like some kind of nitpicking bounty hunters.
I'll concede that plenty of nonsense has been written here, and I truly respect your critiques—most of which are perfectly valid—but I don't believe one should dismiss the entire saga simply out of frustration. At the end of the day, it all boils down to money, but some people crave heavy action and flashy effects, while others want the story to push the boundaries of pure imagination. I don't feel like getting into a debate about everyone's individual preferences right now, but wouldn't we all be waiting with a certain level of enthusiasm knowing this is only the third part? It’s practically impossible to cram everything in and satisfy every single viewer while still keeping it cool. I suspect they had to draw a line somewhere and focus on what the movie primarily advertises: the spectacular visual effects.

I honestly don't buy the idea that money was the driving force behind making "Reloaded" and "Revolutions"... I mean, when studios churn out sequels just to pad their bank accounts, they usually play it incredibly safe with a "minimal risk" philosophy. But with these films, the Wachowskis really put everything on the line and took some massive leaps of faith.

Richard Hernandez13 said:I don't think the main reason they shot "Reloaded" and "Revolutions" was... money. When sequels are made purely for profit, they follow a low-risk philosophy. The Wachowskis took huge risks with these films.

Here is how I see the progression. The Wachowskis wrote the story. Originally, they planned on it being a comic book series. There were even talks with Marvel Inc. Then they fleshed out the concept and reworked it into a screenplay*. The guy who was supposed to work on the comic helped by sketching out storyboards which they used when they pitched the idea to Warner Bros.

It’s worth noting that Matrix has that comic book DNA. It isn't just some one-off project like Independence Day. They didn't just write a single story; they built an entire universe with its own rules—think Middle-earth or Lucas’s galaxy—where hundreds of stories could live.

Once the movie became a hit, someone (100% Silver) suggested two more installments (because "trilogy" is a magic word). Initially, they considered a sequel and a prequel, but that was scrapped because a prequel would have been too expensive and wouldn't have featured the original cast. That concept eventually morphed into some of those Animatrix shorts (I assume Renaissance 1 & 2).
So, they decided to make a sequel, but split it into two parts.

So, should it have been a trilogy or not? Both. The first Matrix was a complete work, but there was plenty of room for dozens of follow-ups.

There will definitely be comics, graphic novels, books, and maybe even a new trilogy in ten years.

*The screenplay was heavily revised from the original draft. Neo was actually supposed to resurrect and run toward the elevator. That part where Neo becomes essentially omnipotent at the end of the Matrix only appeared in the final version of the script.

rapidstag74, you really are some kind of absolute legend, aren't you?

I honestly thought this movie was absolute garbage and I was just counting down the minutes until the credits rolled. The original film was absolutely mind-blowing because of the sheer concept alone—remember how we were all completely floored when it turned out the entire world was just a simulation and all that crazy stuff?
If they were actually going to make sequels, the story should have followed that trajectory, right? But instead of tackling the core existential crisis facing humanity—like, what’s actually happening to the people trapped inside the system?—they pivoted the whole plot to some desperate survival struggle for the tiny handful of humans living outside, which wasn't even the point of the first movie! So, why on earth are people wasting their breath trying to find deep philosophical lessons in parts 2 and 3 (or even the first one)? There aren't any! And even the little bit of "depth" people claim is there—and I say "claim" because who knows if those brothers even intended to convey anything or if they were just throwing random, incoherent lines at us while they cashed their massive checks and laughed at us for treating their movies like some kind of holy scripture—was clearly just tossed in so the trilogy wouldn't look like nothing more than a glorified computer animation with a thin veneer of a plot.
The ending was a complete joke because it offers zero resolution to the fate of everyone stuck in the Matrix believing it's reality. The Oracle says something along the lines of, "Anyone who wants to leave will be able to," but where is the actual answer to the heavy hitters from the first film?
1. How would an average person even react to the soul-crushing realization that their entire life is a digital lie?
2. Is it actually better to face a brutal, harsh reality or stay tucked away in the comfortable illusion of the Matrix?
To be honest, as a Christian, I found my answers to those questions a long time ago, and I didn't expect anything from this movie other than some solid entertainment and a bit of mental stimulation, but Reloaded and Revolutions failed to deliver on both counts.

I was reading somewhere that in the early script drafts, the crew actually made it all the way to Zion at the end, but since they were working with a budget of around $70 million, pulling that off just wasn't feasible.

If anyone actually wants to know what that original draft looked like, you'd probably have to track down Harry Knowles, since he had plenty of time to pore over the script during those two years before filming finally kicked off.