Asbestosis

ASBESTOSIS... DISEASE... USAGE... THE GLOBAL BAN... EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW!



I’m keeping this thread open as a tribute to the millions of people who have fallen victim to asbestosis. In here, you’ll find the latest information,
stuff I’m certain you wouldn't be able to find on your own, even if you tried.
It’s a massive undertaking to start something like this, especially since I don't have a formal medical background,
but since I am a victim of asbestosis myself—and spent a year in college specifically to study this, and still attend lectures today—I’ve poured through roughly 2,500 to 3,000 pages of global history on the subject.

As you read through, you’ll realize just how massive this problem is, and how incredibly difficult it is to solve.

To those who aren't interested: if you feel the need to speak up, please do, but otherwise, don't clutter the space. IF THIS DOESN'T INTEREST YOU, PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW.

For whom the bell tolls!

To my friend: rest in peace. God has taken you home.
No more struggling to breathe, no more pain.
Your final breath has passed, leaving nothing behind but memories.

Who will be next? Is it John?
He’s struggling for air right now, fighting hard, but the doctor says it's only the beginning.
Or what about Franz? Remember him? We all worked together. There wasn't much of an age gap,
but that dust is going to take us all out, one by one.
How many years has it been?
Fifteen to twenty-five years. We went through so much, and now, in our prime,
instead of retirement, we get sickness and suffering.

Oh God, why? We were just doing our jobs, maybe working harder than most,
pushing through the heat and that damn Asbestos dust.
Do you realize we buried others a decade ago too?
But no, they said, “they weren't victims of Asbestos,” claiming they died of lung cancer from “smoking.”

They used to say that was the case, but today we know the truth. May God help us
so that some might escape with less pain and
suffering...........................................
Let's spread the truth across the world and make sure those who don't know finally understand.............................................
By today, in 2002, the whole world knows...............................

And how many more will die from Asbestos without ever having even touched it?

(Jamie Clark74)

Asbestos is a fibrous mineral that’s been known for about 4,500 years. Even the Ancient Romans wove asbestos fibers into materials
used for towels, nets, and even hair ornaments for women.
A long time ago, Emperor Charlemagne supposedly had a tablecloth made of
asbestos. He would toss it into the fire and pull it out completely unscathed
just to show the barbarians his supposed “magic power.”
After the Crusades, traveling merchants used holy crosses
made of asbestos—claiming they wouldn't burn—to sell them as if they were the actual wooden “cross upon which Jesus Christ died.”

Usage didn't pick up much until the 19th century, though people were already aware
of its properties when mixed into high-quality materials.
With the Industrial Revolution hitting in the 19th
century, specifically during the mid-1800s, the use of asbestosis spread globally once its potential was fully realized.

Asbestos is found in massive quantities in the Ural Mountains of
Russia, the Alps in northern Italy, Canada, the USA, South Africa, and Rhodesia... both blue and white varieties are found in Australia.
Mining has since stopped in Australia.

Asbestos was used for everything from construction sheets and roofing to asbestos cement pipes, thermal insulation, and
since it's non-flammable, it served as fireproofing. It was also mixed into paints, various sealants, and gaskets for the
automotive industry—used in clutch and disc brake components, heating element insulation, pipe protection, and plenty of other applications.

Following World War II, during the massive building booms of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, asbestos became a staple in major construction projects. You'd find it in hospitals, schools, dormitories, government buildings, offices, large factories, and even private homes.

Workplaces like shipyards, engine rooms, and electric plants
were heavily insulated with asbestos.

So, why was asbestos so highly sought after?

It comes in a fiber formation that's incredibly easy to work with. It's unique because it offers flexibility, tensile strength, heat insulation, and electrical resistance, all while being easy to mix with chemicals. That's why it became so famous for its wide range of uses.

Asbestos is the only mineral that can be spun and woven like wool or cotton into fabric.

It comes in several colors: blue (crocidolite),
white (chrysolite), and gray (amosite). Other types include anthophyllite,
which was most commonly used in Finland, and tremolite, which is sometimes found in certain commercial talc.

“THE THIRD HORSEMAN”
“BLUE MURDER”

Adapted from a "60 Minutes" report by the producer
Mr. Gerald Ston, his books.

One of the least understood cancers and the one least documented in
medical texts is mesothelioma, which has spread
across the entire world.
The US has some of the highest rates of asbestosis
relative to its population.
It will kill more people than AIDS has killed
in all of America, and victims unfortunately have even lower survival chances than those with AIDS.

What is that word? The one that’s such a tongue-twister?
“MESOTHELIOMA”... remember and learn that word,
because over the next 10, 20, or 30 years, many will die from it.

“BLUE MURDER”
In the town of Witteno, there was a mine for "blue asbestos,"
where miners lived with their families8.7 miles in a small community.

Asbestos was shipped all over the globe because it was
top-tier quality. That mine has actually been closed for quite some time now.

Miners working at the site began dying suddenly, and it didn't take long to find the cause.
Many people relocated after just two to five years at the mine.
How many were buried saying they "died of lung cancer because they smoked"??????... while in reality, they inhaled massive amounts, until investigations
began, and both the Labor Union and programs like "60 Minutes"
pushed for the research that finally brought the truth to light.

The mine owners and doctors actually knew as far back as the 1930s,
and by 1970, there were roughly 200 research publications out.

For example:
a/ Commercial production of insulation began back in 1879.

b/ By 1930, it was recognized that the disease appears after 15, 20, or 30
years.


c/ In 1942, Germany recognized asbestos causes lung cancer and provided
compensation, as well as lifetime disability pensions.

"Can you believe Hitler's nation was the first in the world to admit
it was harmful? Perhaps it's because German workers
were always highly valued."

The epidemic among miners was massive, but I can see why it happened.
But now, ten or twenty years down the line, it’s the women and children who lived through it...
8.7 miles They moved away from the settlement near the mine a long time ago, but once they started showing symptoms after their checkup, it all became clear.
They've finished their diagnoses for asbestosis.
It started small, but the numbers just keep climbing.
The number of people being affected is on the rise.

Asbestosis is the diagnosis given to patients who have been exposed to asbestos. Over time, their lungs develop fibrosis, causing the condition to progress toward pneumoconiosis.

Asbestosis is a progressive disease, and there is no cure.
Breathing starts getting difficult, and the patient begins... Eventually, they could die from a lack of oxygen.

Mesothelioma... a cancer that attacks the lining.
Regarding the breastbone, there's a membrane—sort of like the one you see in a cutlet—where one side sits against the spine and the inner side covers the rest.
The entire lung, situated between the outer and inner membranes, is...
Just a little breathing room so the membranes can move independently.

That works too, though it doesn't infect the abdominal membrane quite that often.
And then there’s that specific type of cancer called “peritoneal mesothelioma.”
Between diagnosis and passing, it’s often just six to nine months. There isn't any cure—it's really just morphine to manage the pain.
"Pain."

Lung cancer is incredibly common among people who worked with any kind of asbestos.
If a diagnosis comes early, there's a good chance that surgically removing the infected lung tissue can work quite well.
Sometimes, you need both radiotherapy and chemotherapy.

Lung cancer can also develop without any exposure to asbestos.
And if the workers handling asbestos are just being reckless?
Their chances of developing cancer are 80 to 90 percent higher.
"NOT FROM THE WASTE"

Asbestos Fears in Western Australia

January 11, 2003

Asbestos Fears: A New Surge of Mesothelioma Cases According to the Asbestos Diseases Society, there is a worrying new spike in mesothelioma cases in the US, tied to a product that is still sitting in many people's homes.
Society President Robert Vojakovic points out that, in numerous instances, people have developed this fatal disease following nothing more than brief, everyday contact with asbestos cement products—often referred to as fibro.
He issued a warning to younger homeowners: don't be so casual when renovating older houses built between 1945 and 1980. A lot of those homes still contain Asbestos.
He noted that there are roughly 20 damage claims currently sitting before the Supreme Court or about to be filed, mostly involving individuals who experienced only occasional exposure, like within their own homes.
The society estimates that around 180 people lost their lives to asbestos-related illnesses in the US last year. Out of the 120 individuals diagnosed with mesothelioma during that same period, roughly 40 of them had only minimal exposure to asbestos.
Mr. Vojakovic stated that roughly 60 people reached private compensation settlements in 2002 due to asbestos exposure, noting that about half of those instances weren't even linked to workplace exposure.
He mentioned that two dogs in the area had been diagnosed with mesothelioma. It looks like they were likely running right next to asbestos fences, breathing in those fibers.
He mentioned that this recent surge in mesothelioma cases involves people who only had minimal contact with asbestos cement. This includes folks who lived in homes during renovations involving asbestos sheeting, or even those who simply helped clean up after the work was done.
It even reached kids who were just playing around with scraps of asbestos cement in their backyards or building little playhouses and sheds.
Respiratory specialist Bill Musk noted that if asbestos cement stays undisturbed within a home, it generally doesn't pose much of a risk—unless someone starts messing around with it.
When renovating, you really have to watch yourself to make sure you don't kick any asbestos fibers up into the air.
The WA Health Department stated that brief, accidental contact with the fibers was highly unlikely to result in any asbestos-related illness.
When asbestos cement products are properly installed and left undisturbed, the risk is practically nonexistent because those fibers are locked tight within a solid cement matrix.
Even simple things like DIY home improvements, renovations, or basic maintenance—including tearing down old houses made of asbestos cement—can end up releasing dangerous fibers into the air.
Dr. Threlfall, the medical officer of the Cancer Registry, noted that "do-it-yourself" exposure is estimated to account for fewer than two mesothelioma cases annually.
"Because mesothelioma takes so long to develop, and since we aren't using asbestos anymore, we’re essentially dealing with the fallout from how it was used decades ago," Dr. Threlfall said.
Malignant mesothelioma is a rare but lethal cancer that attacks the linings of the chest and abdomen. It’s almost always triggered by inhaling asbestos fibers.
January 11, 2003

January 11, 2003
A quick summary of the article: we all know what mesothelioma is by now, and we certainly all know it comes from breathing in asbestos dust.

The article above basically summarizes that in Western Australia back in 2002, about 180 people passed away from mesothelioma.
Sixty people lost their lives due to occupational asbestos exposure.
Out of the 120 home renovators, 40 were exposed to very small amounts of dust.

Houses built before 1980 often contain asbestos, so if you're looking at older properties, just be careful. It's worth keeping in mind when you're inspecting a place.
Most people end up getting sick from small-scale renovations or simply from breathing in the dust during cleaning.

We shouldn't forget that people were doing this work 15 to 30 years ago, back when nobody really understood the dangers.

Experts say everything is fine, as long as you don't bring it up.
Buses, trucks, and even roofing crews are swapping out panels, plates, and roofs.

I still remember seeing Asbestos being thrown around everywhere near those buildings. Back then, we just had no idea.

I still remember sweeping everything up myself before moving on to a more refined job.
Kids were playing around with scraps—do you even realize how those particles float through the air?

Vets even found that dogs, just jumping and running around the yard, ended up with mesothelioma, though nobody knows exactly how long it takes.

Right now, there are 20 legal claims prepared for court... and it just keeps going.

Don't forget, I haven't even touched on the folks battling asbestosis, who are struggling and might face a long, painful fight with various complications. Then you have the people with
pleural plaques, who have asbestos in their pleura,
and aren't even sure what might happen next or when things will take a turn for the worse.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me tell you how it was back in 1985.
At the steel mill, we had contractors coming in to strip out old HVAC units. They were required to wear disposable gear and special masks every single day. We provided all of it; they just provided the manpower. At the time, I was the supervisor responsible for making sure all their clothes and debris were collected, wrapped up, and placed in special containers. Our security team would then transport them under strict supervision to be buried in a cordoned-off area.

There was one "idiot"—honestly, I don't have another word for him—who I didn't notice right away. He was working without any protection, no mask at all, while dust was swirling all around him. We had specialized vacuum cleaners specifically for this, and ignoring them was strictly forbidden.

When I told him he needed to get off the roof immediately and that he was fired, you should have heard him.

This guy actually had the nerve to lecture me on how to do my job. He basically said, "I'll just have a drink while I work, and it'll wash everything out of me." Just look at him, acting like he’s actually following the safety protocols.
Sadly, seventeen years have passed since then.
I really hope, at least for his sake, that he's healthy.

😎

Lawyers are sounding the alarm: A shift in the litigation regarding
"asbestosis"

Thousands of people who handled home renovations themselves and are facing the consequences of asbestos exposure after coming into contact with
asbestos materials will soon be able to seek damages.

Additionally, workers employed at the Osborn electric plant between 1940 and 1960
may have developed mesothelioma.
Turner Freeman Solicitors are looking for anyone involved in the original construction projects to reach out
because they know so many people are now suffering from asbestosis.
They are also searching for anyone who wrapped pipes
using asbestos insulation, along with people from all sorts of different trades.

The warning was issued by the law firm Turner Freeman Solicitors,
who are representing a mother of three currently dying from mesothelioma.

In a "landmark case,"
Helena Edwards is fighting the massive corporation James Hardie—the manufacturer of asbestos plates—which must pay
Mrs. Edwards $800,000 in damages.

With this ruling, Mrs. Edwards becomes the first person to receive compensation for working directly with the material, paid out by the company that manufactured and sold the "asbestos."

In a landmark decision, the Industrial Dust Disease Tribunal ruled for a payout of $803,403.02.

Mrs. Edwards is dying from incurable mesothelioma, which she contracted back in 1970 while renovating her bathroom and inhaling
asbestos particles.

Mrs. Edwards' attorney, based in Sydney (Ms. Tanya Segetov), stated they are now opening an office
in Adelaide due to the overwhelming demand and the number of patients.

"We are seeing huge demand from the population in South Australia," she noted.
Many people are suffering from various types of asbestos-related illnesses;
for instance, one woman simply washed her husband's clothes and
developed asbestosis.

Simply put, in terms of population ratio, the US has seen some of the highest levels of asbestos usage in the world.
We estimate that one in three homes built before 1982 contains asbestos.

Medical experts say that in South Australia,
one person is diagnosed with mesothelioma every single week.

Mrs. Edwards had very minimal
contact with the asbestos, yet today there are so many people with similar exposure levels who could develop the same cancer 30 years down the line.

Jamie Clark74's observation:
In many older homes in cities like Sydney or Melbourne, as well as across the country, young people buy these properties and tear down old partition walls or other materials containing asbestos. If they aren't wearing masks or using a proper vacuum cleaner, the dust flies hundreds of feet, infecting innocent people who never even touched the material.

🙂 😉 😎

I think one evening is enough for now. Tomorrow, I’ll share the perspective and answers from a leading American specialist.

In the meantime, try thinking about all the places you might encounter Asbestos.

What do you think—is it present in the US, and how widespread is it?

Do you believe it's still being used today?

Does the US have a representative, and have they submitted a report to the European Commission for Asbestos Protection?

Best regards,

🙂 😉 😎

Aha, so it’s finally beginning. 😉

I was starting to think you all had forgotten your favorite little ailment. 😁

Ethan Martinez11 said:Aha, here we go. 😉

I was starting to think you all forgot about your favorite disease. 😁

Well, if my username offered a choice, you’d still be
the best one to me!

Well, what can you do? Some people have a thing for women, and others... well, they have a thing for asbestosis. 😁

Though, honestly, it's hard to say which is worse. 😉

Canadian Court News - Canadian Courts Turn Blind Eye on MESOTHELIOMA Victims - Toronto

January 28, 1998
Dear Mr. Worthington,
You might recall me writing to you last fall regarding my stepmother. She was diagnosed with mesothelioma following exposure to insulation at the Toronto building where she worked for Air Canada.

She passed away two weeks ago—it was a terrible, suffocating end.
My father and I also found out today that one of her former colleagues, who also worked for Air Canada, was diagnosed with mesothelioma just last week.

While both cases are being handled by the Canadian Auto Workers' union, we’ve discovered a troubling reality: in Canada (specifically here in Ontario), it isn't legally possible to sue the employer directly.

Claims have to go through what used to be known as Workers' Compensation. However, on top of rebranding the agency, the current Harris government passed legislation that strips workers of the right to seek compensation for any illnesses contracted prior to 1993.

We saw a similar situation recently involving aluminum toxicity, where a court actually overturned a board decision that had gone against an electrician. In response, the provincial government quickly pushed through even more legislation to ensure they aren't forced to follow such court rulings in the future.
It’s honestly quite shocking.
I just felt you ought to be aware of this.

Prof. Nancy Traill
York University, Toronto

==============================================


translation;

Canadian Court News: Canadian Courts Turn Blind Eye on mesothelioma victims - Toronto, Canada

January 28, 1998
Dear Mr. Worthington,
You may remember that I wrote to you back in the fall about my stepmother,
who was diagnosed with mesothelioma after coming into contact with insulation in the Toronto building where she was employed by Air Canada.
She died two weeks ago, suffering a horrific, suffocating death.

Today, my father and I learned that her colleague, who worked at the same building, was also diagnosed with mesothelioma just a week ago.
Even though both cases are being represented by the Canadian Auto Workers' union,
we have learned that in Canada (certainly in Ontario), it is not legally permitted to file a lawsuit against your employer.
Everything has to go through what used to be called Workers' Compensation; but not only has the state changed the name of that commission, they have also passed a law preventing anyone from seeking compensation for illnesses that occurred before 1993.

In a recent case involving aluminum toxicity, a commission ruled against an electrician, but a higher court eventually overturned that decision in his favor.

The provincial government immediately passed new legislation so that, moving forward, no one can bypass the commission's decisions via the courts.
It is truly a massive shock.

I thought you should know about this.
Prof. Nancy Traill
York University, Toronto

Family Support News - Ontario, Canada, March

March 16, 1998
Just like so many other families dealing with the sickness and loss caused by asbestos exposure, we feel like we're being targeted all over again by the very Workers' Compensation Board that was supposed to look out for construction workers like my father.

He passed away at the age of 58 on April 25, 1995.
So far, the Workers' Compensation Board has rejected my father's claim twice. We’re moving on to the Tribunal stage now. That first denial was based on what they called a "lack of exposure" evidence. It sounded reasonable at the time, considering we couldn't pin down one specific employer responsible for his asbestosis. My father spent his career working as a traveling construction electrician around the Chemical Valley of Sarnia, Ontario.

The local petrochemical scene around here is huge—we’re talking companies like Shell, Imperial Oil, Dow Chemical, Polysar/Polymer Rubber, Cabot Carbon, and Sunoco. My dad joined the union back in '56 and started working on-site during those big plant "shut-downs" shortly after. Basically, they'd bring in construction crews to handle retrofitting projects. Part of that job involved stress relieving on pipes, which meant dealing with heavy asbestos insulation. The amount of fibers in the air was so intense it actually looked like falling snow. For the guys on those sites, it was incredibly high-concentration exposure lasting anywhere from a few weeks to several months.

Workers used to sit right on top of piles of this material just to grab a bite to eat. They’d be cutting through conduits packed with it, too. Even after the government banned the stuff, it didn't just vanish; it was still everywhere throughout the "Chemical Valley" of Sarnia.
Even today, workers in their 20s and 30s are still running into exposure during plant shutdowns. The real problem hits construction crews working under contractors at major facilities; trying to prove exactly where you were standing years down the line is nearly impossible. Often, the contracting firm has folded, the plants have lost their paper trails, and the victim has already passed away. It’s a pretty convenient setup for the Workers' Compensation Board.
My dad underwent a lung biopsy at Toronto General Hospital, where the pathologist confirmed he had asbestos fibers in his lungs. He passed away just four months later. Watching him go through that was devastating, and the memory of it stays with us. My siblings, my mom, and I are all forever changed by everything we went through. Professionally, I work as an insurance adjuster in the general insurance field, so I’ve been stepping up to advocate for my mother regarding her survivor's benefit claim. For most women married to men from my father's generation, they weren't the primary breadwinners, which makes this whole process even harder.

Most men in my father's line of work didn't have much in the way of a pension to leave their widows. When this tragedy strikes, the women left behind are often left completely broke. A tiny death benefit or a small monthly check just isn't enough for a 56-year-old woman trying to raise kids, cover a mortgage, and just stay afloat. Once the Union worker passes, those health benefits vanish, too. Even the support from the "Brotherhood" tends to dry up—mostly because people are scared. They wonder if speaking up will make them the next target.

If you're dealing with an asbestosis claim or struggling to get recognition from the Workers' Compensation Board, please feel free to reach out. You can email me directly at glegault@ebtech.net.
Let’s connect, share ideas, and look out for one another. I’ve been getting incredible support from Jim Brophy over at the Treatment Center in Windsor. The Workers' Compensation Board expects you to just roll over and quit, but they definitely picked the wrong family to mess with this time. I’m still putting together my appeal for submission, but before the decade is out, we’re going to see justice for my father, Stan. He passed away far too young and far too tragically for there not to be some accountability. Thank you.
Kathleen Stinson
glegault@ebtech.net
==============================================


prevod;

Family Support News Canada March Like so many other families devastated by the illnesses and deaths triggered by asbestos exposure, we are struggling. We are now moving into the tribunal stage. My father worked as a traveling construction electrician in Sarnia, where the petrochemical industry is a major player—companies like Shell, Imperial Oil, Dow Chemical, Polysar / Polymer Rubber, Cabot Carbon, and Sunoco are all part of the landscape. My father joined the union back in 1956 and spent his career on-site during those big construction projects. It’s just convenient for the WCB to make things difficult. I work as an insurance adjuster in the general insurance field, so I’ve been stepping up to advocate for my mother regarding her survivor's benefit claim. Most men in my father's line of work didn't leave behind generous pension plans for their widows. The kind of health benefits a union worker used to rely on... well, they really need the support of the brotherhood right now. Jim Brophy from the Treatment Center has been helping us out.

March 16, 1998
Just like so many other families devastated by this illness and the loss it brings.
Because of the consequences of Asbestos, we feel like "victims."
The Workers' Compensation Board, which was established specifically to protect contract workers like my father, failed us. He was only 58 years old when he passed away on April 25, 1995.

As of today, the Workers' Compensation Board has denied two more claims.
We are moving on to the Tribunal stage now. The initial claim was denied because they questioned his specific exposure sites, but my father was an electrician working for a firm that handled maintenance wherever it was needed.

The Petrochemical industry here includes companies like Shell, Imperial Oil, Dow Chemical, Polysar / Polymer Rubber, Cabot Carbon, Sunoco, and others.
My father joined the union back in 1956, and he was very frequently called in for "shutdowns"—those periods when production stops for essential maintenance, upgrades, or part replacements.

Contract workers are usually brought in specifically because they can work fast and meet those tight "shutdown" deadlines.

Asbestos dust would drift through the air like falling snow. These contractors were typically on-site for weeks at a time, sometimes even months.

They’d eat lunch right there on the job, sitting directly on layers of insulation.
They were cutting pipes that were absolutely packed with dust.

Men in their 20s and 30s back then were still working these jobs, just like people do today during
"shutdowns." The trouble for contract workers is trying to prove where and for whom they worked years later. So many companies close down and records vanish, plants lose their data, and the victims are gone. It’s all very convenient for the WCB.

My father had a biopsy at Toronto General Hospital.
The pathologist confirmed the presence of asbestos fibers.

Four months later, my father passed away. His passing was incredibly painful and difficult; watching him go left a permanent mark on our family.

People of my father's generation didn't exactly have massive pension funds.
Monthly payouts aren't enough to support a 56-year-old widow with three kids in school and a mortgage to pay.

Health benefits vanished, and that sense of "brotherhood" and support from the union has largely faded.
I want to reach out to all the asbestos victims—anyone fighting against the WCB—please contact me at...

I work as an insurance adjuster, so I’ve been advocating for my mother regarding her survivor benefits claim.
Let's use the internet to help one another. I've received a lot of great support
from Jim Brophy at the Treatment Center for injured workers in Windsor.
The WCB expects you to just give up; this time, they've picked the wrong family to push around.

I am still building my appeal for submission. I truly hope that before the turn of the millennium, we will finally see justice for my father, Stan, who died far too young and tragically. Someone needs to be held accountable.
Thank you!
Kathleen Sinson

Medicina.hr: Is asbestos banned in the US?

T. J.: Currently, the European Union bans both the production and use of asbestos. We still import it from Russia. The containers holding it carry those skull-and-crossbones warning signs. Asbestos is dangerous. As of today, asbestos isn't banned in America. If we want to look at our neighbors, I should mention that asbestos production is prohibited in Canada.

Medicina.hr: Are asbestos pipes dangerous, or is it more about things like thermal wall insulation?

T. J.: No, they aren't dangerous, provided there's no erosion or damage. Or if those walls aren't being torn down or remodeled. We don't actually know what the critical dose of inhaled asbestos is. Asbestosis is an individual disease. Everyone reacts differently. Someone might develop it after a month of exposure, while someone else might stay fine even ten years after exposure.

Jamie Clark74 comments!!!!! I've read through over 2,500 pages of info!
Based on my own research and everything I've read, NO ONE gets hit immediately......... it's more like 15-30 years later!

Medicina.hr: You mentioned that asbestos is banned in the European Community. What’s the situation here?

T. J.: It isn't banned here, but there are maximum allowable concentrations in the air. Though we aren't sure how reliable those limits are because everyone reacts so uniquely. There's also the issue of lack of discipline during manufacturing—laziness and sloppiness regarding safety protocols. The protections exist, but hardly anyone follows them because the gear slows you down. Worker education would go a long way.

Yeah, I've already heard that asbestos isn't banned in America! I even heard they're thinking about using those pipes for water lines in places like Pula! (since they're having major issues with old infrastructure)

Of course asbestos plates in buildings are dangerous, and asbestos itself is too (that's why most poisonings happen in Austria, involving stuff installed back when it wasn't banned yet). I mean, materials always end up getting damaged eventually, so saying
"No, they aren't dangerous, provided there's no erosion or damage."
is just pure stupidity and totally detached from reality. Give it 10-20 years and every material will definitely show wear—whether from remodeling or just its natural properties.

But in America, it isn't regulated like it is in the EU or Canada... partly because environmental awareness and understanding how surroundings affect your life is basically non-existent.

asbestosis Medicina.hr

Asbestosis is a relatively common condition among our population, particularly in certain parts of the US. Because of this, we sat down with Professor Jadranka Tocilj from the pulmonary department at the Memorial Hospital in Chicago. She’s been dealing with asbestosis for quite some time, so she provided some much-needed insight into the disease. Interestingly, the areas surrounding Chicago and cities like Gary, Indiana, seem to be hit hardest by this issue.

Medicina.hr: What exactly is asbestosis?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: Asbestosis is a progressive disease caused by inhaling asbestos dust or fibers. Chemically speaking, asbestos is a silicate with some pretty extraordinary technological properties. However, it has proven to be incredibly dangerous to human health.

The danger isn't really about its chemical makeup, but rather its structure. It’s made of tiny, needle-like shapes that easily pierce lung membranes, triggering a chronic inflammatory response—essentially a foreign body reaction. This leads to inflammation in the lungs through various mediators, or it can cause an inflammatory reaction in the pleura (the lining of the lungs).

How that inflammation progresses depends heavily on a person's immune system. Eventually, this results in pleural thickening, appearing as granulations, while fibrosis develops within the lungs themselves. How fast that fibrosis moves or what the prognosis looks like depends entirely on the patient's individual immune status.

Medicina.hr: Does that mean someone with a stronger immune system will experience more severe changes?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: You could perhaps look at it that way. But honestly, determining a person's exact immune state is very difficult. We've conducted some tests, and our studies showed that complement levels are low in these patients, even though their immunoglobulins stay within normal ranges. Specifically, C3 and C4 levels are definitely at the lower physiological limit, likely due to increased consumption compared to the general population. That said, our sample size wasn't large enough to be definitive; the research needs to be expanded, which wasn't possible for us, so we couldn't draw any absolute conclusions.

Medicina.hr: Which organs does asbestosis affect?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: The main distinction is between pulmonary asbestosis and pleural asbestosis. Pulmonary asbestosis tends to progress more slowly than the pleural version. Newer literature also describes colon cancer in asbestosis patients, which isn't caused by chemical properties, but rather by the physical piercing of tissue and subsequent cellular changes.

Medicina.hr: Why is there such a difference in how pulmonary and pleural asbestosis progress?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: It comes down to the fact that there are two layers of the pleura—the visceral and parietal—and there is constant mechanical friction and contact between them. That friction accelerates the thickening of the pleura, both in width and length.

Medicina.hr: What are the ultimate consequences of pleural involvement? Can it lead to a pneumothorax or sudden death from lung collapse?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: No, pneumothorax hasn't been a frequent consequence of these lung and pleural changes. On the contrary, emphysematous changes (bullae) are common in pulmonary asbestosis when fibrosis develops due to the retraction of lung tissue. Regarding the pleural changes, the thickening essentially restricts breathing mechanics, making the lungs feel like they are trapped in a cage. All of this ultimately compromises respiratory function. It starts with dyspnea (shortness of breath) while at rest, and eventually evolves into dyspnea during physical exertion. Additionally, pleural damage disrupts vital capacity, while lung damage affects diffusion capacity, which relates to damage at the capillary and alveolar membrane level—basically, the gas exchange level.

Medicina.hr: Is asbestos banned in the US?

Prof. Jamie Clark74: Today, the production and use of asbestos is banned within the European Union. Here, we still import asbestos from Russia. You'll see warning signs with "skull and crossbones" on the containers used to transport it. Asbestos is dangerous. To this day, asbestos is not banned in the US. If we want to compare ourselves to our neighbors, I should mention that asbestos production is banned in Canada.

Medicina.hr: Are asbestos pipes dangerous, or is it more about using asbestos as thermal wall insulation?

T. J.: No, they aren't inherently dangerous as long as there's no erosion or structural damage. Or if those walls aren't crumbling or being remodeled. Honestly, we don't even know what the critical dose of asbestos inhalation is. Asbestosis is highly individual; everyone reacts differently. Someone might develop the disease after just a month of exposure, while someone else could go ten years without any issues.

Jamie Clark74: It’s known worldwide that symptoms usually start appearing around
10 to 30 years after contact with the particles.

Medicina.hr: You mentioned that asbestos is banned in the European Union. What's the situation here in the States?

T. J.: Here, asbestos isn't outright banned, but there are maximum allowable concentrations in the air. Though, frankly, we aren't sure how reliable those limits are because of how uniquely the disease manifests in individuals. There's also a lack of discipline during manufacturing—slacking off and negligence regarding safety protocols. The protections exist, but hardly anyone follows them because the gear makes it harder to work efficiently. Better worker education would go a long way.

Medicina.hr: How common is the disease in the US?

T. J.: Very common. You see it in plants like Salonit, shipyards, Plovbest, some operations in the coastal regions, but the highest concentration of cases is definitely in the South. According to our data, we have about 400 cases from the Salonit plant alone over the last decade. Out of those, 90 are mesothelioma cases. From Plovbest, we have 80. There are plenty of sick people in the shipyards too, but we don't have precise records for them. Most of the people we know about are only on our radar because they are pursuing legal claims.

Jamie Clark74: So there's no real evidence unless it ends up in court. It sounds like nobody is looking out for the workers or teaching them how to protect themselves because the process is just too expensive... money comes before health.

It seems like democracy does very little for the working class. Maybe if the factories were still run by the people... now that we've known the truth for the last 15 years... maybe then people would fight to change the laws.
This isn't about politics; it's just my opinion!

asbestosis


asbestosis Medicina.hr: Which professions are most frequently impacted by this disease?

Prof. T. J.: Shipbuilders, insulators, and asbestos loaders—they all faced the risks. Up until around 1965, we used what was known as the "dry method" in asbestos production and processing, which turned out to be incredibly dangerous. Asbestosis has a long latency period, so some of our patients actually contracted the disease over 30 years ago during the era of those old technical processes. The newer "wet method" creates much less dust, so we're seeing fewer cases now.

Jamie Clark74; it’s not just about a new process... it's about the actual removal of old asbestos. The biggest issue is the dust particles that end up spreading everywhere.
We need better protections for workers and a much more efficient process for removing these hazards.
Keep it safe.........................WORKER'S LUNGS FOR
Getting rid of and cleaning up Asbestos—it's just not healthy for him. A little venting here, because my asbestosis is really tightening its grip on me lately. Breathing is getting harder, even when I’m just sitting around relaxing. I honestly wish I’d never touched that Asbestos in the first place.
Sometimes I find myself laughing at how absolutely buried we were—it was like being caught in a dust storm at a flour mill. But even when I’m laughing, it still stings.

asbestosis Medicina.hr: How much asbestos exposure does it take to trigger illness?

T. J.: There isn't a single, precise answer to this. While there are set regulations in place, they don't always align with actual medical practice. We still don't know exactly what specific amount of exposure triggers the onset of the disease. If we did, more developed nations would probably still be using asbestos under strict controls. Let's not forget—every body reacts differently.

asbestosis Medicina.hr: What is the pathophysiological sequence in asbestosis?

T. J.: Once those fibers penetrate the tissue, the body immediately kicks off an inflammatory response involving all sorts of inflammatory mediators. This inflammation can drag on for one, two, five, ten, or even fifteen years. In our experience, that inflammatory period tends to be quite long. It’s also worth noting that because of inflammatory hyperemia—basically increased blood flow—it can be really difficult to detect gas diffusion issues in the lungs, since those levels appear normal during such high blood flow. Severe fibrosis is actually pretty rare; most cases just stay stuck in that persistent state of inflammation.

asbestosis Medicina.hr: Is there a global center of excellence for this?

Prof. T. J.: Yes, they’re based in Zurich, Switzerland. They classify the disease based on severity using ILO standards, which grade the level of changes found in the lungs and the pleura. You have everything from mild to moderate to severe. For instance, when looking at pleural changes, they measure thickness—whether it's just a few millimeters, over 5 mm, or how much of the pleura is actually involved. These classifications are constantly being updated and refined. Radiologists use these specific standards to interpret images. The issue we face here is a bit of a mess because we don't have standards tailored specifically to our own population, which might be a shortcoming of our occupational medicine practices. Essentially, the standards used by other nations don't always align perfectly with what we see in our people.

Jamie Clark74; Americans are from Mars. We aren't like everyone else. What nonsense!

asbestosis Medicina.hr: What are the primary symptoms of the disease?

T. J.: Dyspnea is the primary indicator, though it’s important to note that early symptoms often go unnoticed. About 80% of patients develop hypertension, which leads to dyspnea and can easily mask the actual underlying cause. Fortunately, people are much better informed about this disease these days; if someone has had exposure to Asbestos, they tend to proactively seek medical advice. The progression usually starts with dyspnea during physical exertion, followed by dyspnea even while at rest. A third symptom is a persistent cough, and fourthly, frequent bronchitis often occurs. That last one is actually an objective sign rather than just a symptom, since we can objectively measure the obstruction within the small airways.
That said, those types of injuries aren't specific to one thing; plenty of other illnesses can cause similar damage.

asbestosis Medicina.hr: How is the disease diagnosed?

Jamie Clark74; it usually happens by accident and often when it's already too late, but there's just no cure for what they're using.
Prof. T. J.: I work exclusively with radiology and X-rays. I use specialized techniques, specifically utilizing air bronchograms and oblique pleural projections. When interpreting findings, I always compare them against the established ILO standards. We have top-tier specialists in radiology focusing on asbestosis diagnostics, along with all the modern equipment needed. If a case looks complicated, we move to CT scans. To track how the disease progresses, monitoring lung function is vital, though radiological imaging is usually enough for the initial diagnosis.

Medicina.hr: What kind of treatment is available?

prof. T. J.: There isn't one. We've tried prednisone and corticosteroids, but the results were pretty weak or non-existent. If severe fibrosis develops, we switch to standard fibrosis therapy.

Medicina.hr: Is there a link between this disease and cancer?

prof. T. J.: There is, and it’s massive! Over the last decade, 90 people have died from mesothelioma , and lung carcinomas aren't rare either—most often they are adenocarcinomas. Those cases are less frequent, and smoking plays a role in those tumor developments, which isn't the case with pleural tumors.

Medicina.hr: Has there been any attempt to institutionalize patient support?

prof. T. J.: We tried to establish a referral center in Split. We submitted the project to the US government, but it's currently stalled. We're hoping for a positive outcome so the center can open in Split, especially since we've unfortunately been hit hardest by this disease.

Medicina.hr: What's the prognosis?

prof. T. J.: It's tough to predict how the disease will progress because it varies so much from person to person. On the bright side, it involves long-term inflammation. Ultimately, people pass away due to chronic pulmonary heart disease, respiratory failure, or cancer. For survivors, the quality of life is quite poor; breathing becomes a struggle, almost like gasping for air. You also have to watch out for pulmonary vasoconstriction caused by hypoxia, which leads to secondary pulmonary hypertension and puts a heavy strain on the right side of the heart.

Medicina.hr: Who should patients reach out to?

prof. T. J.: They can go to the pulmonary department at the Split hospital with a referral for evaluation and diagnosis.

Medicina.hr: Are there any other centers outside of Split?

prof. T. J.: This is the primary hub since we deal with this most frequently. Aside from us, the national occupational medicine institute is important, though they aren't as specialized in this specific disease. Then there's the clinic in the capital. Ultimately, it's a tough spot—we're facing a difficult economic climate, yet we still have dangerous workplaces that can't just be shut down because of the economy. Finding that balance is hard.


Jamie Clark74: I'm honestly pretty disappointed by these numbers—"90 deaths from mesothelioma in 10 years"... those are likely just the ones who went through the courts. I'm certain we're talking about hundreds or even thousands more every year, but they were probably just written off as lung cancer deaths... blaming it on smoking?????

How much is a human life actually worth? Would safety measures slow down business?
Are we supposed to teach people how to work safely while dealing with a bad economy????????

Personally, I'd hunt down the doctors, the politicians, and the owners and make them work with that Asbestos... maybe they'll have better immune systems!

So, Jadranka Tocilj is a complete idiot. When the doctors who supposedly "specialize" in this stuff are this clueless and uninformed, it’s no wonder why asbestos isn't banned in America yet! Is it just a coincidence that it's banned in the EU? Of course not. There are plenty of studies she should have access to as a physician. It's an incredible amount of ignorance regarding reality... does she not realize that walls are constantly being remodeled, installed, demolished, and so on? That materials erode over time? Did she just get out of kindergarten?
I honestly think she's from Mars. The level of stupidity in that article above is staggering. It’s terrifying when people like that are the ones making decisions that impact the lives of unsuspecting people. That's just how reality works and how society functions. This is exactly why most Americans in their 50s are already facing major surgeries or dealing with degenerative diseases. You really have to fight for your own health and learn to ignore all the bait they throw at you...

shadowgardener12 says:

Yeah, I’ve already heard that Asbestos isn't banned in America! I even heard they might be thinking about using those pipes for water lines in places like Chicago! (Since they have such massive issues with old plumbing infrastructure.)

Of course, Asbestos sheets in buildings or Asbestos itself are dangerous—that's why we see so many cases of poisoning in places like Austria, where stuff was installed back before it was actually banned. To be clear, material degradation is inevitable, so saying
"No, they aren't dangerous if there is no erosion or damage"
is just total nonsense and completely detached from reality. After 10 or 20 years, any material is bound to show some wear and tear, whether it's from renovations or just its natural properties.

But in America, it's not a concern like it is in the EU or Canada... partly because environmental awareness and understanding how the environment impacts our lives is incredibly low, if not non-existent.

==============================================

shadowgardener12,
thanks for the post. Every contribution and bit of understanding helps... we have to show people and inform them about these dangers.

I'll keep doing that with future posts, but I need to post the originals in English so nobody can claim I'm just making things up and then translating them later. I know most people don't like reading, but someone has to speak up about these hazards and obstacles.

I've probably written two or three hundred posts on Hhinet before, only to get flamed or told I'm being a nuisance.

But this time I'm posting here in Health, where it belongs. My message to those who don't like it? Feel free not to read. If anyone has a decent comment, it's welcome.

😉 😎

Man, the US can feel like a third-world country in certain ways. It’s always bubbling just beneath the surface...

Anyway, regarding the situation in Pula and the water supply—it isn't just a rumor. It was actually published in the RH competition for the new Pula water system back in 2002.

Just search Google for: pula water supply asbestos
Though maybe those pipes were only meant for sewage?

Either way, it’s unbelievable. In the EU, putting Asbestos into cement and various pipe valves has already been banned or will be banned by 2005 at the latest, yet they're planning to build a water system out of it in Pula.

When Asbestos gets banned, the ones who lose out most are the industries—and their growing markets in third-world countries, and apparently, the US too.

Jamie Clark74, of course they laughed at you. When people lack real experience with this stuff, they cling to the illusion that life is safe. So when someone comes along and points out how this hasn't even been banned yet, it’s hard for them to face the reality that they're living in total ignorance. It always works that way... especially if they were sold something under the guise of "modern asbestos insulation plates" or whatever else. They'd have to admit they've been living in the dark, and people don't exactly love doing that.

Sorry if these posts are getting long, but it’s really the only way to get the full picture across.
I've poured every waking moment of the last five years into this. I dream about it, I feel the weight of it, and I know I've taken on a massive undertaking... but even if only a handful of people benefit from this work, it's worth it.

If you've been following along, you probably already realize how difficult this is. Just look at what happened in Canada—politicians changed the laws so workers couldn't file lawsuits if they were exposed before 1993.

And honestly, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Remember that post about Mrs. Edwards from Australia? She was only about 16 when she helped her dad hold an asbestos sheet; she barely even had direct contact with the dust... fast forward 30 years...
without any warning or prior illness, she suddenly couldn't breathe, and eight months later, she was gone.

It didn't follow the timeline suggested by Jamie Clark74—it wasn't a matter of 1, 3, 5, or 6 months. In all my time digging through 3,000 pages of reports and legal filings, I haven't seen anyone fall ill quite that rapidly.

Trust me, everything you're reading is backed by facts coming from multiple directions. I’ve had the chance to learn this through my university studies, as well as from the asbestos support groups.

🙂 😉 😎