Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

ruggedjackal46 said:Look, there’s a significant portion of people born right here in the States who end up becoming terrorists, murderers, or just straight-up career criminals. So what? What’s the actual argument there?

Are we really saying that because there's a statistical chance that 1% of refugees might be terrorists, we should just screw over the other 99% and leave them to head back into a war zone? I'm dying to know how the logic would hold up if the US, Canada, or Europe had applied that kind of reasoning to our situation back in the 90s.

Exactly. There isn't even a war going on in Turkey right now. And honestly, I have no idea how many Americans who fled during the 90s ended up forming terrorist cells—if anyone actually has any data on that, please share.

A religion built on the idea that one gender is inherently less valuable than another is nothing more than a recipe for collective hysteria.
Don't fall for those fake moralists and self-righteous globalists.
What we actually need is a strong right wing and some serious firepower.

Emily Ward3 said:You’re just being difficult for the sake of it. You know exactly what I’m getting at here, and instead of nitpicking these irrelevant details, you should really focus on the actual issue at hand. It doesn't bother me that you're playing protector for certain people against folks like me—call us whatever you want—but what really grates is that you didn't spend a single syllable condemning yesterday's events. Instead, you immediately dug your heels in, ready to waste hours arguing about how Americans or anyone else is actually to blame. Go ahead and let the folks over in France know. And if it's even possible, give Mr. Thompson4's wife a call.

So, who is actually to blame here? Is it me, is it America, or is it those folks looking to replicate this exact same scenario over in Europe? It’s like watching a house divided against itself; they are essentially tearing each other apart because one group insists on following the Quran to the letter while the others reject it entirely. And honestly, tell me—who actually comes out on top in a conflict like that? Is it the moderates or the radicals? It’s a bit like watching six different factions of a single organization go to war with one another; why should I lose any sleep over it? All this religious fanaticism we see on the news stems from that one single book, which every person seems to interpret through their own unique lens. No one else is at fault for that.

Here comes the classic playbook. You say one thing regarding Islam after a massacre of over 140 people, and suddenly you’re labeled a bigot who wants to build concentration camps. Immediately, someone brings up Hitler; immediately, you're branded as a hater just because you don't align with the crowd. Let's skip the melodrama and the personal attacks—they really don't hold any water.

I'm genuinely curious when these camps will actually start appearing. I suppose the far-right extremists across the US are already working on it, and you, the saintly Matthew Anderson4, will surely raise your voice to stop such an injustice.

Well, that is certainly twisted, yes. Definitely. But that lunatic acted alone; this wasn't a coordinated strike hitting five locations simultaneously. Secondly, this happened once compared to 10,000 religious attacks. We deal with attacks carried out in the name of Allah every single day, and we have since the very beginning. It seems as though someone is offended by a caricature, others dare to be gay, some dare to believe in Jesus, others offend Muhammad by visiting a theater, and some simply dare to breathe.

Do you truly not understand me, or are you just choosing not to? I am not taking the side of Americans, nor am I defending them. I recognize that they stirred the pot and that this whole situation serves their interests—otherwise, everything would have vanished in three hours—but I don't think we need to spin every terrorist attack into a narrative of "they are oppressed, so America is to blame." That isn't grounded in reality. Their radical beliefs existed long before Americans saw a way to exploit them.

Sure, the whole of Europe is tied to France.

Your issue might not be mine, but I’ve got my own concerns. You can't really know which backwoods corners of the world I visit or why I’m specifically worried—and believe me, there’s a reason for it. Save those "they won't come for us" fairy tales for the politicians in D.C.

So, what you're saying is Islam is this wonderful religion that treats men and women as equals, calls for peace without slaughtering non-believers, embraces homosexuality, and hates pedophilia? Sounds absolutely lovely; let me know where I can sign up.

I have no intention of changing my position.

Just a moment ago, you claimed you were polite to ninety percent of them.

And now, suddenly, they aren't good enough for you. 🙏

mellowotter36 said:Exactly. There isn't even a war going on in Turkey right now. And honestly, I have no idea how many Americans who fled during the 90s ended up forming terrorist cells—if anyone actually has any data on that, please share.

Right, because political terrorism just isn't in the American DNA. Interesting thought...

neonfalcon16 said:I have no intention of changing my position.

Just a moment ago, you claimed you were polite to ninety percent of them.

And now, suddenly, they aren't good enough for you. 🙏

Did I actually say that? No. What I actually said was:

Emily Ward3 said:Use Google.

Well, what if a student in that seventh-grade class attacks the teacher because they're an infidel?

I don't care who pulled off the attack in Lebanon; I already told you I couldn't care less about what's happening over there.

Of course I am. My dear Matthew Anderson4, in my relatively short time on this earth, I have met and worked with more Muslims than 90% of the people on this subforum, and our relationships have been perfectly fine. Why? Because none of them tried to execute me for being an unbeliever, and nobody ever walked into my house to stop me from eating pork.

Well, Islam is a problem. A major one. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, thanks to people like them, and also thanks to people like you who look at reality with your own eyes and common sense, yet still insist on making excuses and playing the humanitarian.

I don't have any desire to debate this with you anymore; I think we've both made our points clear. Honestly, when someone accuses me of the things you just laid out—bringing up camps or desperate people fleeing across dangerous seas—it just drains my energy. It's like trying to explain color to someone who refuses to open their eyes. No matter what evidence I present, you'll stick to your guns, and I'll stick to mine. We'll probably just run into each other in a few weeks to discuss the next terrorist attack, which, by the way, won't be caused by refugees.

In plain English, that means those people were decent folks—mostly Muslims on paper, much like how I identify as Catholic—and nobody was forcing their lifestyle on me. Nobody felt the sudden urge to pull a grenade in my living room just because they felt inspired. Nobody gave me grief for offering them a $10 cookie instead of some high-end pastry, and nobody trashed the couch I was sitting on. Does that clear things up?

I should probably add a quick disclaimer: that doesn't mean every Muslim I know is a saint. There have certainly been others who were the complete opposite, and I made sure to distance myself from them early on. It's also worth noting that they tend to act much bolder in a pack than they do alone; when they're in a group, it becomes a competition to see who can be the most devout.

The liberal doctrine tries to convince us that all religions are essentially the same—that there’s no meaningful distinction between them. It suggests that people are the only variable, the only source of friction. They claim that if those folks in Paris hadn't turned to Islam, they would have simply found another ideology to latch onto. They paint them as sick individuals who somehow misinterpreted the Quran. People love to quote that one verse stating that killing one person is equivalent to killing all of humanity. Truly beautiful. Just lovely.

But we’re clearly glossing over hundreds of other passages—not that I have the energy to write them all out right now—that call for things proving just how primitive, regressive, and dangerous this religion actually is. ISIS's interpretation of the Quran isn't any less valid than that of the so-called "moderate and normal" Muslims. In fact, I’d argue the opposite. ISIS follows Muhammad much more consistently and faithfully than Muslims living in the West. Muhammad was a military commander who expanded his faith through warfare. You can see the results by looking at Middle Eastern nations; it’s pure savagery. Saudi Arabia is basically a medieval, primitive state operating under laws they believe were handed to Muhammad by the creator of the universe. And we’re expected to pretend that’s fine. It isn't. It is fundamentally incompatible with our American values of freedom, equality, and liberalism.

Let's run the math. Even if only one percent of Muslims are radicals, and assuming there are a billion Muslims—though it's likely double that—you're still looking at ten million absolute lunatics. Unfortunately, that number is significantly higher, which becomes obvious whenever you look at global polls asking Muslims about Sharia law or depictions of their prophet.

It doesn't matter if you study the Tao Te Ching or the Buddha; you won't end up like this. There are no interpretations of Jainism where followers become bloodthirsty fanatics fighting non-believers in the name of their faith. They simply don't exist. Not all religions are the same. Yet, we are told we must protect and respect the ideas propagated in the Quran. It's madness. That's what this whole situation has devolved into.

Ever since the Charlie Hebdo tragedy, the narrative has shifted to saying people shouldn't have drawn those images. Now, people are already starting to deflect by asking why we aren't focusing on the children in Yemen instead. Honestly, what kind of masochism is that?

And here is the ultimate logical gymnastics move: If Americans are supposedly to blame for everything, if we are responsible for the fall of "stable" regimes, and if Middle Eastern people truly require bloodthirsty dictators and murderers to rule them just to keep groups like ISIS in check... then what does that actually say about the people living there and the religion they follow?

Since we’re going there—all religions are basically the same thing, just playing out on different timelines. What you see from radical groups today is exactly what American Christians were doing two centuries ago—killing heretics and spreading faith through warfare. Some might argue two hundred years is a long time, but that’s really just three generations.

That massive development gap everyone talks about? It’s a major reason why things are this broken. And the blame lies squarely with Western nations that colonized half the globe—keeping them suppressed while stripping away everything of value.

The second cause is a modern attempt at the same old game, only now it’s directed by America. The U.S. is essentially trying to colonize Middle Eastern countries for their energy resources—using war, killings, and the funding of terrorist organizations to get it done. In the last decade alone, maybe a million innocent people died as collateral damage in their colonial wars. That breeds nothing but a desire for revenge and pure hatred—just like what happened here yesterday. When you combine that with underdeveloped societies that are easy to manipulate, religion ends up being a pretty minor factor in the grand scheme.

For us, this tragedy in France feels much heavier than a million deaths in the Middle East—mostly because we share enough cultural DNA to actually imagine it happening to us. It’s a normal reaction, and I’m not going to play the hypocrite by pretending otherwise. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the root causes or pin everything on faith—it isn't that simple. I’m not just talking about this one incident, either; I’m talking about the pattern across the entire Western world for the last twenty years, and likely the next twenty.

Labeling and discriminating against people based on their religion is a massive mistake. In Europe, much like here in the States, the far-right would love to start "purifying" the continent—conveniently forgetting that Hitler had a similar vision. There are too many Muslims in Europe living peaceful, honest lives just trying to provide for their families to let some loudmouth claim Islam is the sole problem or a terrorist religion. I’m not a religious man myself, but it’s just plain stupid to attribute everything to faith while ignoring everything else happening in the world.

Let’s not kid ourselves; even the Bible has its fair share of revolting parts. But their issue is they haven't experienced an American Revolution or any of the major social shifts we have. They're stuck where we were centuries ago: religion dictates state policy, witch hunts are still a thing, women are treated as second-class citizens, and scientists who challenge scripture are branded dangerous. It wouldn't be such a massive headache if they just stayed behind their own four walls instead of threatening the rest of the globe. They need a total revolution—everything from dismantling terrorist cells to a complete societal overhaul—otherwise, things won't look good. In this high-tech era, the world has become far too small for this kind of instability.I think it hits the nail on the head.

Finding a way to fix this without causing massive collateral damage is a tall order.

Religion is nothing more than a tool used by politicians to pull the strings of the gullible.

Anthony Jackson2 said:Since we’re going there—all religions are basically the same thing, just playing out on different timelines. What you see from radical groups today is exactly what American Christians were doing two centuries ago—killing heretics and spreading faith through warfare. Some might argue two hundred years is a long time, but that’s really just three generations.

That massive development gap everyone talks about? It’s a major reason why things are this broken. And the blame lies squarely with Western nations that colonized half the globe—keeping them suppressed while stripping away everything of value.

The second cause is a modern attempt at the same old game, only now it’s directed by America. The U.S. is essentially trying to colonize Middle Eastern countries for their energy resources—using war, killings, and the funding of terrorist organizations to get it done. In the last decade alone, maybe a million innocent people died as collateral damage in their colonial wars. That breeds nothing but a desire for revenge and pure hatred—just like what happened here yesterday. When you combine that with underdeveloped societies that are easy to manipulate, religion ends up being a pretty minor factor in the grand scheme.

For us, this tragedy in France feels much heavier than a million deaths in the Middle East—mostly because we share enough cultural DNA to actually imagine it happening to us. It’s a normal reaction, and I’m not going to play the hypocrite by pretending otherwise. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the root causes or pin everything on faith—it isn't that simple. I’m not just talking about this one incident, either; I’m talking about the pattern across the entire Western world for the last twenty years, and likely the next twenty.

Labeling and discriminating against people based on their religion is a massive mistake. In Europe, much like here in the States, the far-right would love to start "purifying" the continent—conveniently forgetting that Hitler had a similar vision. There are too many Muslims in Europe living peaceful, honest lives just trying to provide for their families to let some loudmouth claim Islam is the sole problem or a terrorist religion. I’m not a religious man myself, but it’s just plain stupid to attribute everything to faith while ignoring everything else happening in the world.

Switching gears from yesterday's news in Paris—when it comes to the whole colonial mess, the French are hands-down the biggest villains out there. They’re easily a hundred times worse than the U.S. I’m just passing along what I’ve been seeing on another forum.

The "Colonial Pact," basically the contract they forced onto their former colonies:

Here are the 11 main pillars of this ongoing colonization pact that's been running since the 1950s:

#1. Colonial Debt for the benefit of French colonization

They have to pay back the costs of infrastructure built by the French. What's wild is there isn't even a mention of reparations for all the natural resources they snatched without paying a dime while they were actually running the show.

#2. Automatic confiscation of national reserves

So, every African nation using the West African or Central African franc has to hand over 65% of its foreign exchange reserves to the French treasury every single year. On top of that, they toss in another 20% to cover "unexpected losses" or needs. That leaves them with a measly 15% of their own hard-earned cash (usually from selling natural resources) to actually use. If a country needs more than that 15%, they can tap into their 65% stash, but get this: they have to pay market interest rates to do it! It’s like having to pay interest just to use your own money. Crazy, right?

#3. Right of first refusal on any raw or natural resource discovered in the country

France gets first dibs and total control over exploiting any natural resources found in those 14 countries. It’s basically a monopoly for companies like ExxonMobil, and who knows how much cold, hard cash is being sucked out through underpriced resource deals.

#4. Priority to French interests and companies in public procurement and public bidding

Every single government contract and infrastructure project has to be offered to French companies first.

#5. Exclusive right to supply military equipment and train the country's military officers

All military hardware purchases have to go through France.

#6. Right for France to pre-deploy troops and intervene militarily in the country to defend its interests

#7. Obligation to make French the official language of the country and the language for education

#8. Obligation to use France's colonial currency, the FCFA

#9. Obligation to send France an annual balance and reserve report.

Honestly, this is probably the smallest issue on the list, especially when you consider we have something pretty similar going on within the EU and the Eurozone.

#10. Renunciation of entering into military alliances with any other country unless authorized by France

#11. Obligation to ally with France in situations of war or global crisis

I don't know about all of you, but I can't help but feel that the West is responsible for just about everything gone wrong...

It’s the Masons—obviously. 🍿

Emily Ward3 said:Did I actually say that? No. What I actually said was:

In plain English, that means those people were decent folks—mostly Muslims on paper, much like how I identify as Catholic—and nobody was forcing their lifestyle on me. Nobody felt the sudden urge to pull a grenade in my living room just because they felt inspired. Nobody gave me grief for offering them a $10 cookie instead of some high-end pastry, and nobody trashed the couch I was sitting on. Does that clear things up?

I should probably add a quick disclaimer: that doesn't mean every Muslim I know is a saint. There have certainly been others who were the complete opposite, and I made sure to distance myself from them early on. It's also worth noting that they tend to act much bolder in a pack than they do alone; when they're in a group, it becomes a competition to see who can be the most devout.

And once again, you are completely missing the point. You are looking at religion through a single lens, treating it as the sole cause of the problem.

If things were truly as your mind perceives them, those people you met would be the very last ones you'd ever want to cross paths with.

We actually agree on certain points, but by twisting the entire context and fixating solely on religion, you've become one-dimensional. Religion itself isn't the root cause of everything. It seems to me you're mostly preoccupied with the symptoms rather than the disease.

Consequently, you care less about who is actually starting these wars or why people are dying simply because it isn't "our" America.

Maybe it would be easier for you if you just ignored everything that reminds your mind of that universal evil—the stuff you either don't see or simply don't care about. It might make things a little less uncomfortable for you.

Stop blaming people for chaos they didn't create.

Casey White13 said:It’s the Masons—obviously. 🍿

The Jewish community and Bin Laden

The ocean is just plain wrong

Look, I’m not saying Islam is the sole issue here. And I’m certainly not suggesting that Americans or the West aren't responsible for a huge chunk of what’s going on. Honestly, we bear a lot of the blame. But pinning the entire weight of this on the U.S.—claiming everything is strictly our fault—just feels wrong to me. It’s an incomplete argument. It reminds me of how people reacted after the Charlie Hebdo shooting; there was no room for apologies then, either. There isn't one here. Not the old treaties with former colonies, not the depictions of prophets, not any military intervention anywhere in the world. None of it justifies this. There simply is no excuse.

We're talking about causes here—nobody's actually making excuses for this, nor would any sane person.

http://www.nytimes.com/news/world/europe/flight-route-changes-paris/

No, this is impossible. He should have flown from Greece to Paris a long time ago.

Alright, everyone. But honestly, dismissing Islam or treating the core tenets found in the Quran as some sort of direct threat to our way of life strikes me as pure madness. ISIS makes their stances and beliefs crystal clear. They aren't hiding why they do what they do. Yet, we play dumb. We act like religion doesn't even factor into their motivations, assuming it's irrelevant to them just because it feels irrelevant to us. We try to write them off as nothing more than psychopaths who have zero connection to their faith.

The reality is, there are people out there who truly believe the Quran is the literal word of the Creator of the universe. They don't just follow it; they believe it with every fiber of their being. And frankly, it's hard to find common ground with people like that. To them, our secular ideas are dangerous—they see our values as a path toward eternal damnation for themselves and their children. Meanwhile, to us, their doctrines feel completely unacceptable, primitive, and unimaginably cruel.

Religions are massive collections of diverse ideas. Some branches are filled with progressive, peaceful concepts, while others are steeped in primitive, outdated, and outright malicious ones.