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Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Started by Morgan Williams · · 👁 1.2K views · 18K replies

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Participants Morgan WilliamsRachel Cooper3Joseph Clark37Keith Patel81darkseal9neonfalcon16urbanhawk17Amanda Evans2bluebison47brightpilot6Patrick MartinJoseph Fisher3steelharbor9Robin Fox2Maria AndersonAnthony Jackson2Jason Newmanruggedjackal46Michelle Palmer6Jeffrey Edwards76Jason Campbell70Anthony Barrett37graniteangler31Dennis Evans6 …
wiredfalcon2 wiredfalcon2 Regular
491 messages
joined Mar 2005
#9281 ·
Justin James10 said:Well, there’s no substitute for barroom philosophy, is there? 🙏

He’d probably just swap the wine for whiskey anyway. ☕

The big shipyards were basically "privatized" just to satisfy some bureaucratic red tape from overseas regulators, nothing more than a way to keep the higher-ups happy. In reality, they’re still living off government guarantees. If you look at the situation in places like Savannah or Mobile, things are supposedly heading toward privatization, though the leadership there keeps whining about state subsidies and cutting deals behind closed doors—I know plenty of engineers who work for them, including some former colleagues of mine. As for the major yards out East, those are first-class scams. It’s like one yard swallowed another and then claimed it was a private takeover. Who actually owns these companies? The whole thing is incredibly murky. It looks like most of the ownership sits with certain players who used shell companies to siphon off the very funds the government was pumping in, using that cash to buy up the majority stake. At the end of the day, they’re all just living off the taxpayers. That is how you handle shipyard privatization the American way.

So what, we gotta sit around waiting for aliens to drop in and run a legit privatization process for us?
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9282 ·
wiredfalcon2 said:So what, we gotta sit around waiting for aliens to drop in and run a legit privatization process for us?

Haha, very funny!

Honestly, even standard privatization would be plenty. We don't need government guarantees, direct orders without any bidding process, or those shady ownership structures. Take a company like General Motors—it isn't truly privatized in the way people think, you know?
ironpanther5 ironpanther5 Active Member
235 messages
joined Mar 2019
#9283 ·
The other day, I posted a video where Professor Miller explains how shipyards have always been propped up by taxpayer money; basically, they were never actually profitable even back in the old days, serving instead as a convenient way for the government to rake in foreign currency. He makes the point that there’s just zero sense in trying to bail out projects that don't even fit into the modern American economy anymore.

And wouldn't you know it, despite my best efforts, absolutely nobody bothered to sit through the twenty-five-minute video, even though the professor is actually pretty engaging. Honestly, you guys are just dodging the truth here. 😁

I have to hand it to the man for being so blunt. Even if I personally believe we should prioritize funding for terminally ill children over maintaining military aviation, he delivered his message clearly and he's spot on.
When you're born in the United States, you're essentially signing an unwritten contract where you accept certain obligations to the country—you give up a slice of your personal freedom, you contribute to national defense when called upon, and you pay taxes your whole life. In exchange, the U.S. guarantees you security through the police and the legal system, along with access to healthcare, especially since the government maintains such a massive grip on the medical industry.
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9284 ·
That’s exactly my point when I talk about shell companies. Nobody actually cares about turning a profit in these scenarios. The whole objective is just a massive shell game—usually to serve some political agenda, no matter what you call it—and to buy social stability by creating jobs. At its core, it functions more like a government welfare program than actual business.

It’s the same story in American agriculture, where billions of dollars vanish into those infamous federal subsidies. Sure, production numbers look huge, but all they’ve really done is create an entire class of people dependent on that specific type of handout (alongside a tiny inner circle of elites who are busy skimming off the top). Does anyone actually care about the market logic behind these "subsidies"? Not really; the main goal is simply to drain the federal treasury dry.
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#9285 ·
wiredfalcon2 said:I didn't quite catch that. What are you getting at? Which example? Of what?

Look at what happened with companies like ExxonMobil—it wasn't some freak accident where the government just decided to rot from the inside out. A private corporation walked in and bought them off. Plain and simple. You read these threads and you’d think everyone believes private owners are some kind of saints who couldn't dream of a bribe, but that's just naive. When you have weak institutions like we do here in the States, a massive corporation can bend the system to its will without breaking a sweat. And this grand plan of yours? This idea that more and more privatization is going to somehow "strengthen" the nation? It's a joke. All it does is leave the door wide open for these guys to corrupt the state even faster down the road.

Look, an efficient legal system is the backbone of any society that actually works, whether you’re running a hardcore capitalist machine like the US or something a bit more moderate. But honestly? Let's stop beating around the bush and focus on one specific word: precision.

It’s an interesting point. Especially when you use a specific term like "shipyards," even though some of them have already been privatized—something I’m pretty sure you and restlesssurfer97 both knew. When you guys were typing out "shipyards," you weren't just regurgitating memorized talking points like someone who doesn't have a clue how this industry works. You actually know the ownership structures behind these American shipyards. Right?

Look, if you’re gonna sit there acting like an absolute expert on shipyard ownership structures without actually knowing how they work, you just look like a total moron. It’s honestly embarrassing—like someone who thinks they understand the entire economy just by scrolling through some random influencer's Facebook feed.

We’re calling for honest entrepreneurs🐔

If companies like Sears were actually examples of "honest ownership," they wouldn't be facing bankruptcy right now. They brag about being massive retail giants, yet they bleed their employees dry and squeeze suppliers until they snap. They squeezed wages from the bottom and took out massive bank loans to fuel unrealistic growth—growth that was unsustainable for them—and eventually, the whole thing imploded. And now we're supposed to bail out this circus run by a handful of mid-level managers and their cronies? No. Shut it all down... there's no point in anything else.

This is a textbook example of predatory American capitalism—a tumor that really started growing back in the old industrial era. Someone pockets the cash, pushes a business forward just to protect their initial capital, and couldn't care less if the company remains competitive in the long run once the government inevitably steps in to save it.

Healthy corporate growth doesn't happen this way—that's the core issue. Competition is what keeps a business alive; it forces you to improve every single day. If you actually bring value to the market, you survive... otherwise, the market cleans you out.

I think brightpilot6 hit the nail on the head regarding our current climate. Trust in our society has completely eroded, and everything eventually boils down to a "us versus them" mentality.
ironpanther5 ironpanther5 Active Member
235 messages
joined Mar 2019
#9286 ·
Justin James10 said:That’s exactly my point when I talk about shell companies. Nobody actually cares about turning a profit in these scenarios. The whole objective is just a massive shell game—usually to serve some political agenda, no matter what you call it—and to buy social stability by creating jobs. At its core, it functions more like a government welfare program than actual business.

It’s the same story in American agriculture, where billions of dollars vanish into those infamous federal subsidies. Sure, production numbers look huge, but all they’ve really done is create an entire class of people dependent on that specific type of handout (alongside a tiny inner circle of elites who are busy skimming off the top). Does anyone actually care about the market logic behind these "subsidies"? Not really; the main goal is simply to drain the federal treasury dry.

Exactly, but the real tragedy is how we crushed the actual companies that might have survived the transition to a free market. They were forced to slash their staff down to a measly 25% of what they used to be, leaving everyone out in the cold. Even if you let them keep 15% more, it's still a disaster.
We kept these constant money-pits on life support under the guise of "strategic importance," essentially dragging them along like dead weight. It’s painfully obvious they didn't have a real plan for moving into a modern capitalist economy—unlike, say, the folks in Germany or Scandinavia who actually had a roadmap instead of just looking for things to steal.
If I can be a little cynical here, it seems like everyone was too busy ignoring the destruction of historical landmarks to notice that certain people were straight-up dismantling the economy right in front of our eyes.
And honestly, that’s exactly why the country feels like it’s stuck in a state of perpetual psychological civil war.
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#9287 ·
It’s a bitter pill to swallow when you realize we live in a society where a piece of paper from some university carries more weight than the word of a priest.
If that’s really the direction we want to take, then maybe we don't even need a government at all.
Paul Sanders5 Paul Sanders5 Regular
571 messages
joined Apr 2019
#9288 ·
https://www.nytimes.com/news/us/politics/national-security-updates...512843.html

Man, we really gotta protect this country like it’s the last drop of water in the desert. 😍
restlesssurfer97 restlesssurfer97 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined May 2004
#9289 ·
Look, if you can actually prove to ruggedjackal46 that there’s some kind of government setup out there where this wouldn't be a total disaster, then maybe—and I mean maybe—we can sit down and talk about making some actual changes. But until then, we might as well just assume any tiny bit of leftover change is basically gone with the wind.
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9290 ·
Honestly, we need to take these greedy corporate vultures out back and shoot them all! ☕

Comrades, it’s high time we embraced collectivization and nationalization. Just look at the mess we're in—can't you see how much damage the selfish interests and pure greed of these capitalists have caused us? 🧐
restlesssurfer97 restlesssurfer97 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined May 2004
#9291 ·
So, they just landed 25 $0.00 federal grants, which basically gives them the green light to just own the whole damn situation. 🤣
restlesssurfer97 restlesssurfer97 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined May 2004
#9292 ·
Maybe this would be right up ruggedjackal46's alley
wiredfalcon2 wiredfalcon2 Regular
491 messages
joined Mar 2005
#9293 ·
restlesssurfer97 said:Maybe this would be right up ruggedjackal46's alley

Great job with these articles. Repecki just recaps three measly stats and completely dodges the actual question from the piece, "How did they pull it off?" Just another day in journalism, I guess.
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9294 ·
I find it honestly fascinating how everyone else seems to have figured it out—the Poles, the Estonians, the Irish, the Slovaks, the Romanians... just about everybody but us! 🙏 🙏 🙏

But hey, whatever. As long as we can still enjoy a good life here, who cares what the cost is? We’ve got our family heirlooms and everything we need right here at home. 👋
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#9295 ·
restlesssurfer97 said:Maybe this would be right up ruggedjackal46's alley

First off, Poland has a population of about 40 million.

Second... Poland? Seriously? You think an ultra-nationalist Catholic nation is supposed to be our blueprint? What’s next, are you going to drop a link to Canada too?
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9296 ·
What are the population counts for Estonia and Slovakia? 🍿

Honestly, it feels like Poland is basically turning into a fourth Reich, while we remain this incredible oasis of freedom and democracy. 🙏
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#9297 ·
My friend, what kind of analysis is this, barely half a page of text 🙏
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#9298 ·
Justin James10 said:What are the population counts for Estonia and Slovakia? 🍿

Honestly, it feels like Poland is basically turning into a fourth Reich, while we remain this incredible oasis of freedom and democracy. 🙏

Compared to Poland and Canada? Sure, maybe. But even in Slovakia, you had about 45,000 people out in the streets just a few days ago demanding the government step down over the murder of a journalist. Are you actually following what’s happening in those countries? Have Estonia and Slovakia gone through any massive liberal shifts, and if so, what kind of results are they actually seeing? Or are you just cherry-picking nations that happen to sound a bit more polished than the US?
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#9299 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:Compared to Poland and Canada? Sure, maybe. But even in Slovakia, you had about 45,000 people out in the streets just a few days ago demanding the government step down over the murder of a journalist. Are you actually following what’s happening in those countries? Have Estonia and Slovakia gone through any massive liberal shifts, and if so, what kind of results are they actually seeing? Or are you just cherry-picking nations that happen to sound a bit more polished than the US?

Oh, I’m watching, believe me—and by comparison, we look like a developing nation. Seriously, compared to them, we’re practically stuck in the dark ages regarding infrastructure!

All this "it's just how things are in Eastern Europe" talk—claiming that because journalists get killed and organized crime runs rampant in places like Slovakia, it makes us equal? What have you been sleeping through for the last twenty-plus years? 👏 In our neck of the woods, nobody even bats an eye when stuff like that happens because, unfortunately, it’s become the status quo.
darkrider55 darkrider55 Active Member
69 messages
joined Nov 2010
#9300 ·
brightpilot6 said:My friend, what kind of analysis is this, barely half a page of text 🙏

I honestly thought that was just the first part, but then I hit the end of the article. 🤣

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