Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

I honestly feel like we're going to start seeing those first big comparisons pretty soon, where people look at the total death counts in Italy during March from previous years versus what we're seeing this year.

Addressing questions this complex really requires years of dedicated study, and even then, we might only get rough estimates for infection rates or fatalities rather than exact answers. I guess most of what’s happening right now is just visually engaging because everyone with an internet connection is suddenly obsessed with graphs, curves, and all these new technical terms. In my opinion, the only truly significant number is the cumulative total of births and deaths worldwide—basically, the global population. Right now, the world population grows by about 1.2% annually, though that rate is slowing slightly since the numbers are already so high. If that growth continues steadily, a pandemic doesn't really change the big picture. I mean, technically one exists, but cumulatively, it's almost negligible. Even if millions of people passed away globally due to COVID-19, it would be hard to notice on a global scale. It seems like the declining birth rates in Europe are a much more visible issue. As for Africa, COVID-19 might not impact them as severely; they have a very young population on average, and their immune systems aren't used to such sterile environments. Maybe this will just accelerate the ongoing trends in migration.

Amanda Evans2 said:I’ve been reading up on this, and you know exactly why it’s flat-out bad rather than just mediocre.
The problem is that they’re cherry-picking spikes where mortality rates peaked and trying to paint a broad, sweeping picture based on isolated incidents. It’s fundamentally flawed logic.
There is a much more relevant study regarding mortality rates conducted in China using completed cases, which was actually presented right here about ten pages ago...

Studies coming out of China regarding this virus can't be considered relevant for any reason. Either they were covering things up at the start, or their regime simply won't allow them to look worse than they are. We'll never truly know their actual numbers, nor will we ever know exactly where the virus originated since they've gone to great lengths to debunk the market theory entirely. They just don't want this virus associated with them. I think we've already covered this ground.

What’s actually interesting about the article is how neither the exact death toll for the flu nor for this virus will ever be known. Instead, they just take excess mortality figures and throw them all into the same bucket. For this one, they'll likely take last year's flu mortality rate, compare it to this year's deaths, and call it a day.

We'll see where we actually stand on mortality in the end. The article isn't bad—it actually provides quite a bit of info on methodology and what data is being used—you're just getting hung up on the most trivial detail...

It isn’t exactly "obvious" when an article uses its headline and overall tone to try and settle a score using specific mortality rates. Both the title and those graphics showing spikes in one particular city are clearly designed to drive home that exact point.
We can all agree that the most amateurish part of this whole piece is how people are trying to draw massive, sweeping conclusions from such limited data.
But for someone just scrolling through the news—which is what most people on these sites do—this looks like a total catastrophe.
In reality, every single media outlet has been acting like the world is ending over the last month; honestly, they are a primary reason why everyone is so unnecessarily terrified.

Be careful, wash your hands, and keep your distance. But at the same time, don't lose your mind, don't go out and hoard toilet paper and flour, and stop obsessing over every little thing.
I wonder why Rudan and Djikic aren't out there spreading panic like Capak and Bozinovic.
The panic is always manufactured by those who stand to gain from it.
The media and the politicians.

Amanda Evans2 said:It isn’t exactly "obvious" when an article uses its headline and overall tone to try and settle a score using specific mortality rates. Both the title and those graphics showing spikes in one particular city are clearly designed to drive home that exact point.
We can all agree that the most amateurish part of this whole piece is how people are trying to draw massive, sweeping conclusions from such limited data.
But for someone just scrolling through the news—which is what most people on these sites do—this looks like a total catastrophe.
In reality, every single media outlet has been acting like the world is ending over the last month; honestly, they are a primary reason why everyone is so unnecessarily terrified.

Be careful, wash your hands, and keep your distance. But at the same time, don't lose your mind, don't go out and hoard toilet paper and flour, and stop obsessing over every little thing.
I wonder why Rudan and Djikic aren't out there spreading panic like Capak and Bozinovic.
The panic is always manufactured by those who stand to gain from it.
The media and the politicians.

I wouldn't say this isn't fear-mongering. It seems like he's just repeating everything everyone else is saying—quarantines, "more dangerous than the flu," and so on.

America is entering the most critical phase of the fight against COVID-19, and citizen participation is vital. Following discussions with the Secretary of Health, Professor William Beroš, I am issuing this statement to the American public to highlight the expert facts necessary to overcome this pandemic as quickly as possible.

Then again, no generation is completely safe from this disease; in certain cases, young people die too, especially those with underlying conditions.

Besides, he fully supports the Crisis Headquarters; everything I've read from him suggests they are doing an excellent job, which he emphasizes here 🤷

FOLLOW THE ADVICE OF THE CRISIS HEADQUARTERS – it is of the utmost importance that we all: avoid contact, stay home, spread accurate information, and protect the sick and the elderly.

ACT TOGETHER – members of the Crisis Headquarters, healthcare workers, and all citizens – only together will we succeed.

That is why isolation and quarantine are our only way to fight back, and we must implement them. We cannot afford to play games with viruses because they are dangerous due to their unpredictability and various ways of spreading.

restlesssurfer97 said:I honestly feel like we're going to start seeing those first big comparisons pretty soon, where people look at the total death counts in Italy during March from previous years versus what we're seeing this year.

https://bergamo.corriere.it/notizie/...?refresh_ce-cp

According to Google Translate, about 5,000 more people died this March than they did back in March 2019.

Though, I guess this is the only article I've come across linking the two. Maybe wait a few days and see what else pops up.

I mean, seriously, what an incredibly arrogant, rude little brat this Ribić guy turned out to be. It’s actually unreal.
Man, Bujas absolutely laid him out, though; he wasn't even remotely impressed by that whole televised performance, just staying totally clear, direct, eloquent, and full of spirit. Honestly, it feels like we finally have someone like that showing up, so I’m switching gears here into full optimist mode. If this guy can actually pull off starting an association that represents the actual productive sector in all future dialogues—instead of those useless, bloated government agencies and other garbage—then maybe Ribić and those other union pharaohs will finally be brought down to earth, so they and all those other state-funded cronies stop dictating our present and our future.

"Owners should commit to giving up 50 percent of their profits, then splitting that other 50 percent among the most deserving employees who help pull the company through a crisis. In return, the government should grant those firms total tax exemptions. Management should also waive their salaries—it’s all about building mutual trust," he claimed.

🤣

What kind of fantasy world are these people living in? So, owners just hand over half their profit to some "star employees," while management conveniently gets to skip their paychecks... 🤣
Wait, did he actually give up his own salary?

I guess Perry on the assembly line at Podravac is the real hero behind the company's massive export numbers and overall success... ☕

So, this Ribić guy basically thinks he’s everything... I mean, who are we even supposed to be standing in solidarity with, the capitalists? 🤣🙏

Paul Martinez73 said:"Owners should commit to giving up 50 percent of their profits, then splitting that other 50 percent among the most deserving employees who help pull the company through a crisis. In return, the government should grant those firms total tax exemptions. Management should also waive their salaries—it’s all about building mutual trust," he claimed.

🤣

What kind of fantasy world are these people living in? So, owners just hand over half their profit to some "star employees," while management conveniently gets to skip their paychecks... 🤣
Wait, did he actually give up his own salary?

I guess Perry on the assembly line at Podravac is the real hero behind the company's massive export numbers and overall success... ☕

Oh, don't be silly—Perry is absolutely crushing his production quotas on the line. 🙏

In a situation like this, anything other than—for a set period, at least—boosting pay for essential, overburdened public sectors while cutting funds for departments that are idle or barely functioning is pure madness. If a teacher, a judge, or a clerk at the local zoning office is only hearing from us once every two or three months, what kind of logic dictates they should still be drawing a full salary while the rest of the community struggles to stay afloat?

On the flip side, why wouldn't we give a doctor, a nurse, or a medical technician working on the front lines an extra $15,000 or $6.75 during these months? A round of applause and some kind words are all well and good, but extraordinary effort and genuine danger deserve an extraordinary reward.

Taking it a step further, we could implement true meritocracy within the public sector, though I suppose those are just pipe dreams. It’s much the same story when you consider permanently reducing service counters or finally pushing through that much-hyped digital transformation.

By the way, if I may jump back into this discussion with a few examples. Why does it always have to be an "either capitalism or socialism" debate? Why can't we consider both? I’m referring to how both concepts are traditionally understood within the Western European framework.

"Socialism" doesn't inherently mandate the existence of a bloated, inefficient government, just as "capitalism" doesn't automatically guarantee fair competition or a meritocratic system where people are actually rewarded for their hard work.

At the end of the day, both systems require a well-regulated structure to function properly. That is precisely what we are struggling to achieve here. Anything else is just empty political rhetoric.

It’s totally possible that this crisis is going to hit so hard that things actually start shifting for real. Right now, everything is just hanging in a delicate balance where the number of political appointees and privileged insiders, plus all those "entrepreneurs" who basically just win rigged government contracts, combined with state-owned corporations and public sector unions, equals exactly enough power to keep the status quo from collapsing. If that equilibrium gets thrown off even a little bit, the changes are just going to happen on their own.

edit: look, socialism is socialism, and a socially responsible state is a socially responsible state—you shouldn't try to mix those two concepts up. At least by default, bureaucracies eventually become an end unto themselves, it’s just how it works.

Most people have probably already seen this through some other channel, but:

🙏😂🤦

Doesn't this just remind you of the old VB16 era, watching them struggle to make their claims actually line up with any real logic?😂

brightpilot6 said:In a situation like this, anything other than—for a set period, at least—boosting pay for essential, overburdened public sectors while cutting funds for departments that are idle or barely functioning is pure madness. If a teacher, a judge, or a clerk at the local zoning office is only hearing from us once every two or three months, what kind of logic dictates they should still be drawing a full salary while the rest of the community struggles to stay afloat?

On the flip side, why wouldn't we give a doctor, a nurse, or a medical technician working on the front lines an extra $15,000 or $6.75 during these months? A round of applause and some kind words are all well and good, but extraordinary effort and genuine danger deserve an extraordinary reward.

Taking it a step further, we could implement true meritocracy within the public sector, though I suppose those are just pipe dreams. It’s much the same story when you consider permanently reducing service counters or finally pushing through that much-hyped digital transformation.

This crisis might actually turn out to be a silver lining. It looks like we might finally be forced to implement fair evaluations for public jobs and embrace digitalization (which, surprisingly, is actually doable), making it harder to slide back into our old, inefficient ways later on. That said, the question remains: how do you actually measure performance? Take teachers, for example. They're doing incredible work right now, trying to maintain education under grueling conditions, pivoting overnight to remote learning, and essentially producing TV-style content they were never trained for. These instructors look ridiculous on screen, but it’s honestly cruel to push people with zero media experience to produce long-form content for the entire nation to watch.

So, who gets a raise and who takes a cut? I have a nagging fear this will all be superficial—they'll bump up the pay for those currently grinding, and then once the dust settles, nothing else will ever change.

brightpilot6 said:By the way, if I may jump back into this discussion with a few examples. Why does it always have to be an "either capitalism or socialism" debate? Why can't we consider both? I’m referring to how both concepts are traditionally understood within the Western European framework.

"Socialism" doesn't inherently mandate the existence of a bloated, inefficient government, just as "capitalism" doesn't automatically guarantee fair competition or a meritocratic system where people are actually rewarded for their hard work.

At the end of the day, both systems require a well-regulated structure to function properly. That is precisely what we are struggling to achieve here. Anything else is just empty political rhetoric.

Exactly. My only issue is with that hypocritical, dangerous argument used against all public institutions and "political appointees," which usually goes hand-in-hand with an idealized view of "real" entrepreneurs. It's becoming pretty obvious how much bullshit that is—and how easily the whole world can end up in a mess that only a legitimate public political institution can pull us out of.

You ever wonder how our "public policy institutions" are actually going to pull us out of this absolute mess we're in?

The plan is basically just to print a mountain of cash and pump it straight into the economy, which then has to somehow generate enough actual output to match the value of all that new money being thrown around, and if the economy can't step up and meet that mark, well, then we're just heading straight into massive inflation.

That's exactly how it goes down.

Me?

What conclusion can one truly draw from that, other than the fact that a tango requires two partners? You have the state acting as a robust institutional framework—one that ultimately guarantees the stability of the currency, ensures fair competition, and provides for the sanctioning of offenders—and then you have the people on the other side actually producing the goods and services.

But let’s be realistic: a state will never be strong without a massive pile of cash. Just forget about it. The idea of otherwise is only possible in the delusions of individuals living in some sort of private bubble, or perhaps they were living in one until just last month.

So, what’s the deal? Are you even sure everyone here actually gets this, like, specifically ruggedjackal46 whom I'm talking to right now?

I honestly feel like we need to deconstruct how a lot of people wrap their heads around the concept of "the state" and especially how they view employers, because in the mind of the average American, bosses are all just "driving Bentleys and paying their taxes in Monaco."

The whole point of the government is to ensure the exact same rules apply to everyone, and if they just focused on that one thing, things would be a hell of a lot better for us.

If we didn't have this massive, overpriced government and a mountain of public corporations that exist just to hand out cushy jobs to political buddies, we would have faced this crisis much more calmly, we'd have less national debt, and we'd actually have the fiscal breathing room to push through something like this. But instead, we're staring down the barrel of a total wipeout.
We all pretty much knew the next crisis was going to push us right to the edge, but nobody expected it to hit like this. If this lasts, it's going to absolutely crush us.

No, restlesssurfer97, I honestly had no clue until you enlightened me with all that profound wisdom and seasoned experience from your life as a small business owner. It’s all crystal clear to me now.

That’s more on the macroeconomics side of things rather than micro-entrepreneurship, but hey, I guess it doesn't really matter as long as you're catching the drift 🤣