MK, vol. 219483

The Family Law is honestly such a hypocrite; it actually dares to stick its nose into how parents raise their kids at home, yet it takes absolutely zero responsibility when that interference backfires. Look, part of growing up is testing limits, and someone needs to be there to tell a child clearly and firmly where those boundaries lie. If the family doesn't set those firm lines, then the streets, the police, or the courts definitely will.

So, here’s what I’m wondering: Is the Family Law going to step up and take accountability when a kid ends up struggling with addiction or falling into a life of crime because they lacked discipline at home—discipline that was essentially stripped away by laws banning physical correction as a parenting tool?

For comparison, I’d suggest taking a look at the threads over on Psychology: Physical punishment of children, along with the related poll showing the ratio of those in favor versus those against—it ended up being 134 opposed and 67 in favor. You might also want to notice the distribution of moderators in both groups (not a single one is from MK). So, this isn't anything specific to the Men's Corner—which, if we're being honest, deals with much larger issues than what it's currently being blamed for—and I just wanted to demonstrate that it is indeed possible to maintain a relatively civilized discussion regarding different perspectives on this issue.

Regarding MK, I suppose it isn't possible—nor particularly desirable, I think—to explain hyperactivity using only layman's terms. And that, I guess, is where the problem lies.

On MK, the whole debate is actually pretty reasonable, considering the core issue is how some people choose to label certain behaviors as hyperactivity
Maybe I’m just not dim-witted or dull enough for my own good, but personally, I haven't noticed any actual, attention-grabbing problem on MK

Brian Rodriguez14 said:I didn't say anything about advocating for illegal acts.

Actually, you did. Physical punishment of children is strictly prohibited under Family Law 🙂.

brightcrane56 said:The Family Law is honestly such a hypocrite; it actually dares to stick its nose into how parents raise their kids at home, yet it takes absolutely zero responsibility when that interference backfires. Look, part of growing up is testing limits, and someone needs to be there to tell a child clearly and firmly where those boundaries lie. If the family doesn't set those firm lines, then the streets, the police, or the courts definitely will.

So, here’s what I’m wondering: Is the Family Law going to step up and take accountability when a kid ends up struggling with addiction or falling into a life of crime because they lacked discipline at home—discipline that was essentially stripped away by laws banning physical correction as a parenting tool?

It’s common knowledge—if you look at the data—that addicts, and especially career criminals, almost exclusively come from households where they were never even looked at sternly, let alone disciplined through physical means. ☕

Look, I don't buy the whole "gentle parenting" thing where you just sit down and talk it out—sometimes that just doesn't work with kids.
I mean, let’s be real, who among us didn't get a smack on the butt or a little slap once in a while growing up? (And honestly, I don't see that as abuse or anything extreme).
I consider myself a pretty tolerant person, really, but if my kid today—despite all my sweet explanations and hugs—decided to start screaming and throwing a tantrum on the floor of a Target because they wanted some ridiculous toy or some other stupid reason, they'd get a swat so hard they wouldn't even think about trying it again.

Nicholas King said:It’s common knowledge—if you look at the data—that addicts, and especially career criminals, almost exclusively come from households where they were never even looked at sternly, let alone disciplined through physical means. ☕

Cut it out with the trolling.

If I’m the one solely responsible for how my child behaves until they hit adulthood, then it feels incredibly hypocritical for anyone else to stick their nose into how I raise them. Even if it's the government stepping in—it still feels like they're trying to claim a piece of the responsibility without actually doing any of the work.

Of course, I’m totally against any kind of abuse—that goes without saying. But when we're talking about things like disciplinary spanking, a quick slap, or even just a firm kick in the butt? Well, that's a different conversation entirely.

Lisa Hernandez3 said:For comparison, I’d suggest taking a look at the threads over on Psychology: Physical punishment of children, along with the related poll showing the ratio of those in favor versus those against—it ended up being 134 opposed and 67 in favor. You might also want to notice the distribution of moderators in both groups (not a single one is from MK). So, this isn't anything specific to the Men's Corner—which, if we're being honest, deals with much larger issues than what it's currently being blamed for—and I just wanted to demonstrate that it is indeed possible to maintain a relatively civilized discussion regarding different perspectives on this issue.

Regarding MK, I suppose it isn't possible—nor particularly desirable, I think—to explain hyperactivity using only layman's terms. And that, I guess, is where the problem lies.

The whole point was missed. This section is basically just guys messing around. If the OP actually wanted a deep dive into hyperactivity, they would’ve posted in a different sub-forum.

The gist of it is that kids today are incredibly undisciplined. Every bratty kid gets labeled as "hyperactive," whereas back in the day, people handled that kind of energy with a belt or something similar. At least, that's how I read the thread.

It wasn't meant to be a medical or Psychology lecture held in a space where we mostly talk about women and dating.

Then out of nowhere, some people swoop in and fly off. It happens here all the time, usually driven by feminists.🤣 😁

Anyway, the same thing happened again. This time, someone got attacked like they were some massive criminal, when really they were just playing along with the vibe of the forum. They didn't say anything violent at all.

Actually, when things look like that, people love to push back against modern norms and play with those overly sensitive sensibilities.

At the end of the day, this is a men's space. Deal with it.

It seems rather hypocritical when someone complains about MK-related topics they aren't even participating in—btw—only to show up here later to whine about how "always problematic" MK is...🙄

MK follows the rules. Any actual boundary-crossing results in an immediate ban.

But because it isn't some sterile, overly sensitive safe space, it’s the perfect corner for men.
You’ve got a crew that knows how to joke around, and anyone who can take a joke is welcome—men or women, doesn't matter.

All these liberal, hypersensitive, multicultural, woke types are taking things way too far just so some average guy can have a moment of peace to breathe. MK is still one of those places, and you people are going to ruin it.

Nicholas King said:Really? Everything? Even advocating for illegal activities (or whatever the legal jargon calls it these days) within those topics?

I’m not just talking about physical punishment for children here; I mean other actions that are strictly prohibited by law.

And if someone mentions something similar in a joke, will they be sanctioned too? MK is closer to making jokes than to Psychology, let alone being approachable or setting a decent tone...

But putting that aside—if laws were never debated or challenged, we’d still have slavery, women wouldn't have the right to vote, and fathers would essentially own their children's lives. Do you honestly think this specific moment in history is the perfect peak where nothing ever needs to change? How does anything evolve without constant questioning?

Look, we can have a discussion about parenting, but let's keep it to the designated sections for that. The real sticking point here is how far people are willing to go when it comes to commenting on corporal punishment. As it’s nicely laid out right here, we can certainly talk about the topic, but there is a massive line between discussing it and actually glorifying or encouraging violent methods. I'm not saying you can't even mention it. In fact, I think it's better if we talk about these things openly, but we absolutely cannot be out here praising or recommending methods that are illegal under US law.

You can keep going until Linda Price5 decides she likes it. 😁

Someone told me that when they were kids, they used to listen to classical music by pressing their ear right against the speaker of a record player. I guess that’s how things work here—you can only discuss certain topics if you stay within the lines, because undercover cops are basically patrolling the sub-forums.

So, discussions about race, sexual orientation, parenting... they're fine, as long as you don't cross the line set by the agents on duty, since apparently someone told them some article somewhere says a certain thing is harmful.

Anyway, I read those articles. The idea that spanking a kid on the butt or fingers is harmful is about as proven as saying using a cell phone is harmful. It’s just not recommended, so people try to avoid it, but it doesn't exactly show any massive, devastating effects.

People can check that out for themselves in their own neighborhoods. In mine, I'm pretty sure almost everyone got swatted at once or another, and not one of them turned out to be a criminal or an abuser. You've got all sorts of people—doctors, lawyers, engineers... a smack on the butt didn't influence their life choices one bit. Honestly, I'd say non-verbal, non-physical communication—just the way their parents acted—had a much bigger impact than those hits. At this rate, I expect Family Law will soon make it illegal for a parent to even come home tired from work or something. 😁

Long story short... topics where activists have hijacked both science and practice...

And just how far can this actually go?
Is the end goal just rolling our eyes and acting disgusted at the whole mess?

If anyone here has actually taken the time to sit down and read through the Family Law, please, by all means, point out just ONE parent who hasn't broken it already.
And if you manage to find one, I’ll happily return the favor by pointing out a parent who couldn't care less about their kid and should probably be facing prosecution for neglect.

As an MK moderator (though I didn't manage to catch up on this thread last night, given it was only just opened), I wish to state my position clearly: I am firmly opposed to any form of physical abuse or corporal punishment directed at anyone, and most especially against children.
Furthermore, I believe that censoring the opinions of users on this forum is a deeply harmful practice, one that runs directly contrary to the recent directives from the forum owners regarding a more relaxed approach to moderation. To be precise, I am referring to the deletion of someone's lived experiences and personal perspectives. While I certainly do not condone calls for violence or similar behavior, which absolutely ought to be penalized, we must protect discourse.
For the reasons stated above, I have closed this topic, and if you ask my opinion, it shall remain so. If you desire a sanitized, clinical discussion, you are welcome to take it to a specialized child psychology PDF or perhaps join a dedicated group on Facebook.

Long live MK!

rustydrifter10 said:Look, we can have a discussion about parenting, but let's keep it to the designated sections for that. The real sticking point here is how far people are willing to go when it comes to commenting on corporal punishment. As it’s nicely laid out right here, we can certainly talk about the topic, but there is a massive line between discussing it and actually glorifying or encouraging violent methods. I'm not saying you can't even mention it. In fact, I think it's better if we talk about these things openly, but we absolutely cannot be out here praising or recommending methods that are illegal under US law.

I’m not quite sure what the definition of a debate is, but if only one side gets to share their thoughts, then it isn't a debate. It’s something else entirely.
It’s kind of like claiming you have a democracy when you can only vote for one political party. 🤷

Timothy Robinson2 said:You can keep going until Linda Price5 decides she likes it. 😁

Someone told me that when they were kids, they used to listen to classical music by pressing their ear right against the speaker of a record player. I guess that’s how things work here—you can only discuss certain topics if you stay within the lines, because undercover cops are basically patrolling the sub-forums.

So, discussions about race, sexual orientation, parenting... they're fine, as long as you don't cross the line set by the agents on duty, since apparently someone told them some article somewhere says a certain thing is harmful.

Anyway, I read those articles. The idea that spanking a kid on the butt or fingers is harmful is about as proven as saying using a cell phone is harmful. It’s just not recommended, so people try to avoid it, but it doesn't exactly show any massive, devastating effects.

People can check that out for themselves in their own neighborhoods. In mine, I'm pretty sure almost everyone got swatted at once or another, and not one of them turned out to be a criminal or an abuser. You've got all sorts of people—doctors, lawyers, engineers... a smack on the butt didn't influence their life choices one bit. Honestly, I'd say non-verbal, non-physical communication—just the way their parents acted—had a much bigger impact than those hits. At this rate, I expect Family Law will soon make it illegal for a parent to even come home tired from work or something. 😁

Long story short... topics where activists have hijacked both science and practice...

Exactly. So what, 70-80% of us who were raised contrary to that Family Law all turned out to be delinquents, addicts, or screw-ups? 🤷

hollowtrucker77 said:And just how far can this actually go?
Is the end goal just rolling our eyes and acting disgusted at the whole mess?

If anyone here has actually taken the time to sit down and read through the Family Law, please, by all means, point out just ONE parent who hasn't broken it already.
And if you manage to find one, I’ll happily return the favor by pointing out a parent who couldn't care less about their kid and should probably be facing prosecution for neglect.

Well, actually, if you really dig into that law, you realize that’s pretty much all you can do. Because any other way, you're breaking the law. Whether you limit a kid's freedom by grounding them, withhold an allowance as punishment, or monitor where they go and who they hang out with—all of that violates that wonderful Family Law if you follow it strictly to the letter.

Aaron Harris2 said:As an MK moderator (though I didn't manage to catch up on this thread last night, given it was only just opened), I wish to state my position clearly: I am firmly opposed to any form of physical abuse or corporal punishment directed at anyone, and most especially against children.
Furthermore, I believe that censoring the opinions of users on this forum is a deeply harmful practice, one that runs directly contrary to the recent directives from the forum owners regarding a more relaxed approach to moderation. To be precise, I am referring to the deletion of someone's lived experiences and personal perspectives. While I certainly do not condone calls for violence or similar behavior, which absolutely ought to be penalized, we must protect discourse.
For the reasons stated above, I have closed this topic, and if you ask my opinion, it shall remain so. If you desire a sanitized, clinical discussion, you are welcome to take it to a specialized child psychology PDF or perhaps join a dedicated group on Facebook.

Long live MK!

And which one would that be? You definitely can't hash this out on RiD.
Maybe we could talk about it here on a thread Lisa Hernandez3 linked over at Psychology, or perhaps in a legal/politics section where people actually discuss why a certain law is good or bad...

hollowtrucker77 said:Honestly, we might as well just shut this whole forum down right now, because the second people actually start having a real conversation or debating anything, someone inevitably says something that doesn't align perfectly with their delicate sensibilities and ends up hurting their little feelings.

And since we love nothing more than weaponizing the law whenever it suits our specific narrative, it’s worth noting that the Supreme Court has already weighed in on how parents have the right to discipline their children, including physical discipline, when it's appropriate.
But of course, we all know better than the highest court in the land, because clearly our kids are all perfectly behaved and enlightened, raised by their incredibly brilliant, well-read, and sophisticated parents.

In that case, I suggest the crowd advocating for such nonsense just migrate to some Canadian message board and call it a day. Problem solved.

Megan Ruiz13 said:You’re overreacting.

It’s the classic move: forcing one opinion on everyone while censoring anything else.
You’re attacking someone just because they voiced their own view.

Physical punishment as a disciplinary tool has been around since the dawn of time. It existed then, it exists now, and it isn't going away just because we refuse to talk about it.

Is it really off-limits to debate which method was more effective or functional?

If that isn't undemocratic, I don't know what is...

Do you truly believe it is "democratic" for a moderator to advise someone to slap an elderly woman just because he gives his own grandmother a smack to keep her from being a nuisance?

Timothy Robinson2 said:You can keep going until Linda Price5 decides she likes it. 😁

Someone told me that when they were kids, they used to listen to classical music by pressing their ear right against the speaker of a record player. I guess that’s how things work here—you can only discuss certain topics if you stay within the lines, because undercover cops are basically patrolling the sub-forums.

So, discussions about race, sexual orientation, parenting... they're fine, as long as you don't cross the line set by the agents on duty, since apparently someone told them some article somewhere says a certain thing is harmful.

Anyway, I read those articles. The idea that spanking a kid on the butt or fingers is harmful is about as proven as saying using a cell phone is harmful. It’s just not recommended, so people try to avoid it, but it doesn't exactly show any massive, devastating effects.

People can check that out for themselves in their own neighborhoods. In mine, I'm pretty sure almost everyone got swatted at once or another, and not one of them turned out to be a criminal or an abuser. You've got all sorts of people—doctors, lawyers, engineers... a smack on the butt didn't influence their life choices one bit. Honestly, I'd say non-verbal, non-physical communication—just the way their parents acted—had a much bigger impact than those hits. At this rate, I expect Family Law will soon make it illegal for a parent to even come home tired from work or something. 😁

Long story short... topics where activists have hijacked both science and practice...

I watched a recorded behavioral psychology lecture from an American university recently. The professor was struggling a bit when he got to negative reinforcement because, honestly, most of the pushback is ethical rather than strictly scientific... basically, he concluded that the objections are mostly moral, and that any conditioning tends to be limited to specific situations or people, making it hard to generalize compared to positive reinforcement... blah blah blah... pretty thin stuff, really. He noted it was clearly driven by current social norms rather than pure logic. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of punishment (okay, except in the bedroom 😍 🤣), but I'm not sure if there's objective proof of actual harm. It seems to me the biggest issue is inconsistency, which is classic for unstable environments. One day a guy gets drunk and hits everything in sight for no reason, then the next day he's sober and coddling everyone for no reason either...

Anyway, that's not the topic 😁

hollowtrucker77 said:And just how far can this actually go?
Is the end goal just rolling our eyes and acting disgusted at the whole mess?

If anyone here has actually taken the time to sit down and read through the Family Law, please, by all means, point out just ONE parent who hasn't broken it already.
And if you manage to find one, I’ll happily return the favor by pointing out a parent who couldn't care less about their kid and should probably be facing prosecution for neglect.

brightpuma said:I’m not quite sure what the definition of a debate is, but if only one side gets to share their thoughts, then it isn't a debate. It’s something else entirely.
It’s kind of like claiming you have a democracy when you can only vote for one political party. 🤷

Exactly. So what, 70-80% of us who were raised contrary to that Family Law all turned out to be delinquents, addicts, or screw-ups? 🤷

Well, actually, if you really dig into that law, you realize that’s pretty much all you can do. Because any other way, you're breaking the law. Whether you limit a kid's freedom by grounding them, withhold an allowance as punishment, or monitor where they go and who they hang out with—all of that violates that wonderful Family Law if you follow it strictly to the letter.

And which one would that be? You definitely can't hash this out on RiD.
Maybe we could talk about it here on a thread Lisa Hernandez3 linked over at Psychology, or perhaps in a legal/politics section where people actually discuss why a certain law is good or bad...

Look, you just can't go around encouraging or glorifying actions that are straight-up illegal under our laws, especially when it comes to... well, everything else we were discussing. It’s just not right. When we're talking about the core rules of the game, everything really starts to click into place. foruma piše:

Just a quick heads-up for everyone joining us here on the forum: we have some ground rules to keep this community running smoothly. To keep things civil and enjoyable for everyone, please keep the following prohibitions in mind:

Just a heads-up for everyone: please make sure you aren't breaking any U.S. laws here. We’re specifically looking out for things like hate speech, discrimination, or anyone trying to justify or glorify criminal acts. We also have a zero-tolerance policy regarding copyright infringement, child exploitation, animal cruelty, and anything else illegal. Let's keep this community safe and respectful!

Look, there’s a massive difference between just having a debate and actually crossing the line. It's one thing to sit down and hash out your personal opinions—to say, "Hey, in my book, this is wrong" or "I personally find this unacceptable." That's what healthy discussion is all about. But once you start talking about things that are strictly illegal under U.S. law? Well, then you can't use this forum to encourage those actions or try to glorify them. There's a very clear distinction between sharing a viewpoint and inciting criminal behavior, and we need to respect that boundary.

brightpuma said:I’m not quite sure what the definition of a debate is, but if only one side gets to share their thoughts, then it isn't a debate. It’s something else entirely.
It’s kind of like claiming you have a democracy when you can only vote for one political party. 🤷

Exactly. So what, 70-80% of us who were raised contrary to that Family Law all turned out to be delinquents, addicts, or screw-ups? 🤷

Well, actually, if you really dig into that law, you realize that’s pretty much all you can do. Because any other way, you're breaking the law. Whether you limit a kid's freedom by grounding them, withhold an allowance as punishment, or monitor where they go and who they hang out with—all of that violates that wonderful Family Law if you follow it strictly to the letter.

And which one would that be? You definitely can't hash this out on RiD.
Maybe we could talk about it here on a thread Lisa Hernandez3 linked over at Psychology, or perhaps in a legal/politics section where people actually discuss why a certain law is good or bad...

To be perfectly honest, I simply do not know. I do not frequent every single corner of this forum, so I truly cannot say.

However, I am certain that if this post is slated for deletion within that particular thread:

Our friend, the schoolteacher, used to pull us by the ear or give us a good smack if we were acting up; even parents would chime in saying, "Just give him a clip around the ear if he's being foolish" (and let me be clear, that was never considered abuse back then). Try doing that today and see what happens when his father, who suffers from PTSP, comes charging after you.

then I shall deem this an insufficiently liberal discussion for MK; such heavy-handed purging belongs in some other sub-forum, as a topic of this nature simply cannot exist within MK. On MK, individuals possess the fundamental right to recount their own lived experiences without being labeled as aggressors or being subjected to censorship. I will not stand for that, and that is final.
Game over.