Arming Ukraine

It is quite likely that the Ukrainians are already undergoing training for the F-16 and are halfway through their certification on the Leopard 2.

boldotter2 said:Anyway, enough about Ukraine, let's talk a bit about how Russia is arming up...

It looks like the world's second strongest Army!!! has to smuggle in missiles, firecrackers, and all sorts of pyrotechnics through Georgia and Iran.
I guess what kind of 353452453D strategy is that? They sit on all those high-end hypersonic Kinzhals just so they can test out cheap Iranian copies instead. We'll probably never wrap our heads around it. Such an art form, I suppose.

Yeah, right—like all the most advanced weaponry is just hidden away in Iran because they ran out of shelf space and had to burn through the old stuff first...

Carl Lee27 said:Actually, wait, turns out helicopters won't be part of this new US aid package after all
https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/statu...34167071260674

The General Atomics deal might actually go through, perhaps in the next round of assistance; word is the US has plenty of out-of-service Predators just sitting in storage.
https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/statu...27737039654918

We are seeing a slow but steady move toward much more sophisticated hardware. We started with basic infantry gear, mostly geared toward defense, then moved up to light armored vehicles, kamikaze drones, and things like that. Now we're talking about howitzers, tanks, and anti-ship missiles... so what comes next? Abrams or Leopards, Sky Sabre, AH-1Z, ATACMS, F-16s, high-end drones, and basically the whole spectrum of guided munitions like Hellfire, Brimstone, or JAGM...
And since the Americans emphasized they are willing to provide support even if the Ukrainians need specialized training, there's this excellent thread on the subject regarding how the private sector gets involved in US military logistics and training, and how the Ukrainians can transition to American weaponry relatively quickly.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta...18592334475265

By the way, that Pentagon meeting with the defense contractors? The whole topic is preparing for the possibility that this war in Ukraine drags on for years. The US is gearing up to provide everything necessary so that every single village, even in the most remote reaches of Russia, is draped in black.☕

That provides a formidable foundation for the mass destruction of equipment and personnel. It will be intense watching Reaper and Predator footage as they dismantle convoy after convoy.
Furthermore, those monsters responsible for over 20,000 deaths in Mariupol should be wiped out from the sky using Excalibur.

George Robinson43 said:That provides a formidable foundation for the mass destruction of equipment and personnel. It will be intense watching Reaper and Predator footage as they dismantle convoy after convoy.
Furthermore, those monsters responsible for over 20,000 deaths in Mariupol should be wiped out from the sky using Excalibur.

I guess using Reaper/Predator drones would actually be a bigger escalation than just sending F-16s. With them, American operators from the USA could basically be operating under the Ukrainian flag inside Russia. And even if you shoot down a Predator, there's no way to know where that "signal" actually originated. I mean, sure, it comes via satellite, but where it went *to* the satellite is a total mystery.

I mean, maybe the Americans should just send them—screw the Russians—but yeah, it is an escalation. For example, Ukraine could use Hellfires to hit moving trains directly in Russia. You blow up a locomotive right as it hits a bridge and boom, huge damage for a long time. Man, in that scenario, even Moscow is within reach. 😵

So, I think it's such a huge game changer that if they do send them, they might be restricted to operating only within Ukraine's borders, totally unarmed or something...

I've been saying for a long time that from the very start, the US should have just "donated" their drones to Ukraine, perhaps by setting up some third-party entity to maintain them on the ground while Americans fly them personally to take out Russian targets...

France—one of those "strategic allies" leading the post-Brexit EU—just dropped €120 million in weapons for Ukraine. That’s actually less than what Estonia put up. 🙏The UK basically saved its political soul by leaving that limp EU led by France and Germany, and now they’re finally acting like a real power again.

The real losers in this war won't be the Ukrainians—it'll be us and the rest of the EU. People will mourn the dead, cities will get rebuilt, and Eastern Europe is going to come out of this more united, decisive, and heavily armed than ever, without fearing anyone. Meanwhile, the USA and the UK are just reaffirming their status as global superpowers that nobody really questions, while we sit here in the middle dealing with German-French cowardice—wasting resources on debating wine origins and how long vibrator batteries last...

On topic:

I'm keeping an eye on whether any of our Mi-8/17s end up in Ukraine, especially since the transfer to Canada has already started. ☕

boldotter2 said:I guess using Reaper/Predator drones would actually be a bigger escalation than just sending F-16s. With them, American operators from the USA could basically be operating under the Ukrainian flag inside Russia. And even if you shoot down a Predator, there's no way to know where that "signal" actually originated. I mean, sure, it comes via satellite, but where it went *to* the satellite is a total mystery.

I mean, maybe the Americans should just send them—screw the Russians—but yeah, it is an escalation. For example, Ukraine could use Hellfires to hit moving trains directly in Russia. You blow up a locomotive right as it hits a bridge and boom, huge damage for a long time. Man, in that scenario, even Moscow is within reach. 😵

So, I think it's such a huge game changer that if they do send them, they might be restricted to operating only within Ukraine's borders, totally unarmed or something...

They say history is our greatest teacher. Just look at February 1941.

Aaron Barrett79 said:France—one of those "strategic allies" leading the post-Brexit EU—just dropped €120 million in weapons for Ukraine. That’s actually less than what Estonia put up. 🙏The UK basically saved its political soul by leaving that limp EU led by France and Germany, and now they’re finally acting like a real power again.

The real losers in this war won't be the Ukrainians—it'll be us and the rest of the EU. People will mourn the dead, cities will get rebuilt, and Eastern Europe is going to come out of this more united, decisive, and heavily armed than ever, without fearing anyone. Meanwhile, the USA and the UK are just reaffirming their status as global superpowers that nobody really questions, while we sit here in the middle dealing with German-French cowardice—wasting resources on debating wine origins and how long vibrator batteries last...

On topic:

I'm keeping an eye on whether any of our Mi-8/17s end up in Ukraine, especially since the transfer to Canada has already started. ☕

Have you not heard our resident all-knowing windbag lately?

Milanović actually had the nerve to call the UK a 'second-tier power,' even suggesting that their Defense Minister doesn't even know his name.

Aaron Barrett79 said:France—one of those "strategic allies" leading the post-Brexit EU—just dropped €120 million in weapons for Ukraine. That’s actually less than what Estonia put up. 🙏The UK basically saved its political soul by leaving that limp EU led by France and Germany, and now they’re finally acting like a real power again.

The real losers in this war won't be the Ukrainians—it'll be us and the rest of the EU. People will mourn the dead, cities will get rebuilt, and Eastern Europe is going to come out of this more united, decisive, and heavily armed than ever, without fearing anyone. Meanwhile, the USA and the UK are just reaffirming their status as global superpowers that nobody really questions, while we sit here in the middle dealing with German-French cowardice—wasting resources on debating wine origins and how long vibrator batteries last...

On topic:

I'm keeping an eye on whether any of our Mi-8/17s end up in Ukraine, especially since the transfer to Canada has already started. ☕

Honestly, they might as well just hand over those Mi-24s. They’re basically rotting away at the airfield here in the States with zero hope of ever seeing flight time with the Air Force again. If they’re still sitting around at the base, at least they're... well, you know. 2019. It was.

Kate Lewis3 said:Honestly, they might as well just hand over those Mi-24s. They’re basically rotting away at the airfield here in the States with zero hope of ever seeing flight time with the Air Force again. If they’re still sitting around at the base, at least they're... well, you know. 2019. It was.

There’s nothing left to transfer from our Mi-24 fleet except maybe some scrap metal. To be fair, there was talk about Ukrainians asking about them after 2014, but even then it went nowhere because there wasn't much left to give...

Kate Lewis3 As I have previously observed:
Has anyone else been following the recent developments regarding General Atomics? It appears that representatives from the company—the very same ones responsible for the Predator and Reaper platforms—have held discussions with officials from Ukraine. From what we can gather, there is a preliminary agreement in place to deploy certain aircraft, though the specific models have yet to be officially disclosed. This entire operation is reportedly contingent upon receiving the final green light from the US government. One has to wonder, how much longer will these bureaucratic hurdles delay the necessary deployment of such critical technology?

To what extent does the deployment of these drones actually differ from simply establishing a no-fly zone? I find it incredibly difficult to wrap my head around the logic here, even though, God knows, I would give anything to be proven wrong.

How technically feasible would it be to arm Reapers with something like AMRAAM missiles, using AWACS to feed targeting data directly into the drone's guidance system to intercept Russian aircraft?

Anthony Hill5 said:

Kate Lewis3 As I have previously observed:
Has anyone else been following the recent developments regarding General Atomics? It appears that representatives from the company—the very same ones responsible for the Predator and Reaper platforms—have held discussions with officials from Ukraine. From what we can gather, there is a preliminary agreement in place to deploy certain aircraft, though the specific models have yet to be officially disclosed. This entire operation is reportedly contingent upon receiving the final green light from the US government. One has to wonder, how much longer will these bureaucratic hurdles delay the necessary deployment of such critical technology?

To what extent does the deployment of these drones actually differ from simply establishing a no-fly zone? I find it incredibly difficult to wrap my head around the logic here, even though, God knows, I would give anything to be proven wrong.

The NATO pilots—the Americans—aren't getting involved.

You could even argue that Turkey is basically fighting alongside Ukraine since they're the ones supplying the Bayraktars.

Joseph Clark37 said:How technically feasible would it be to arm Reapers with something like AMRAAM missiles, using AWACS to feed targeting data directly into the drone's guidance system to intercept Russian aircraft?

Forget about targeting planes.
It’s much better to just hammer away at their manpower and armor!

Aaron Barrett79 said:There’s nothing left to transfer from our Mi-24 fleet except maybe some scrap metal. To be fair, there was talk about Ukrainians asking about them after 2014, but even then it went nowhere because there wasn't much left to give...

That's my point. Even when Asimov tried to push that overhaul deal through back in 2019, the only way it would have worked is if they intended to just take our own gear and repaint it in US Air Force colors.

Kate Lewis3 said:They say history is our greatest teacher. Just look at February 1941.

I totally agree. I just think we should escalate things slowly, kind of like the boiling frog method. Maybe start with anti-tank gear, then move to artillery, armor, anti-ship, aircraft, Predators... That way, Ukraine gets everything they need, and Russia's grumbling just becomes an annoying nuisance.

Though, honestly, after the Buzz and all those sanctions hitting home, even that grumbling has quieted down a bit...

Europe and the USA keep sending supplies, but where are the tanks, artillery, trucks, and helicopters actually out on the ground?

swiftjackal11 said:Europe and the USA keep sending supplies, but where are the tanks, artillery, trucks, and helicopters actually out on the ground?

Look, Ukraine is a massive country—we aren't talking about some small territory here. All this stuff being sent over? It’s basically a drop of ink in the ocean; it just gets swallowed up by the sheer scale of the conflict almost immediately.

Kate Lewis3 said:I think you meant Crimea.

Honestly, I just think it’s a matter of time before someone gets the right gear to sink the last Russian piece of junk floating in the Black Sea.

Yeah, just a typo.

Aaron Barrett79 said:France—one of those "strategic allies" leading the post-Brexit EU—just dropped €120 million in weapons for Ukraine. That’s actually less than what Estonia put up. 🙏The UK basically saved its political soul by leaving that limp EU led by France and Germany, and now they’re finally acting like a real power again.

The real losers in this war won't be the Ukrainians—it'll be us and the rest of the EU. People will mourn the dead, cities will get rebuilt, and Eastern Europe is going to come out of this more united, decisive, and heavily armed than ever, without fearing anyone. Meanwhile, the USA and the UK are just reaffirming their status as global superpowers that nobody really questions, while we sit here in the middle dealing with German-French cowardice—wasting resources on debating wine origins and how long vibrator batteries last...

On topic:

I'm keeping an eye on whether any of our Mi-8/17s end up in Ukraine, especially since the transfer to Canada has already started. ☕

For us, the priority is Canada and those illegal elections scheduled for November.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Look, Ukraine is a massive country—we aren't talking about some small territory here. All this stuff being sent over? It’s basically a drop of ink in the ocean; it just gets swallowed up by the sheer scale of the conflict almost immediately.

We'll see how it plays out on the ground.
The focus is shifting to the Donbas.

boldotter2 said:I guess using Reaper/Predator drones would actually be a bigger escalation than just sending F-16s. With them, American operators from the USA could basically be operating under the Ukrainian flag inside Russia. And even if you shoot down a Predator, there's no way to know where that "signal" actually originated. I mean, sure, it comes via satellite, but where it went *to* the satellite is a total mystery.

I mean, maybe the Americans should just send them—screw the Russians—but yeah, it is an escalation. For example, Ukraine could use Hellfires to hit moving trains directly in Russia. You blow up a locomotive right as it hits a bridge and boom, huge damage for a long time. Man, in that scenario, even Moscow is within reach. 😵

So, I think it's such a huge game changer that if they do send them, they might be restricted to operating only within Ukraine's borders, totally unarmed or something...

Forget the Hellfire; I doubt that would do much real damage to a locomotive. A 550-pound JDAM, which they also carry, would be a much more effective tool for the job. 👍