Arming Ukraine

https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/statu...88434502393858

The first batch of Switchblades just arrived.

wiredseal7 said:That's exactly what's happening right now—they're following the Montreux Convention, which lets them shut the straits to all warships during wartime, a move they've already made.

Admiral Gorskov has already been blocked, so NATO hasn't even had a chance to test the waters yet.

Do you even realize how much you're talking nonsense?

Nancy Gomez26 said:What purpose would an aircraft carrier serve in the Black Sea? Could it even get in there to begin with? There is a massive network of NATO airfields lining the coast, not to mention aerial tankers for those operating from further afield—sending a carrier into that environment simply lacks logic.

Furthermore, NATO (technically speaking) is not a 'belligerent power' in this conflict, so there shouldn't be any restrictions placed on them.

American carriers can't enter the Black Sea for two main reasons: first, they are simply too large, and second, under the Montreux Convention, vessel transit is limited to 15,000 tons.

Dennis Price said:Do you even realize how much you're talking nonsense?

What do you make of this nonsense?

Quote : The Turkish government announced today that IT is closing The Bosphorus Strait to The passage of military vessels fra All countries , although ships based in The Black Sea Russia or Ukraine , will still be allowed to return to their ports , in application of The Montreux Convention. Basically, the gates are shutting—just like when a landlord locks the building during a riot—leaving everyone else stuck on the outside looking in.

Right from the jump, the Bosphorus is closed to warships from any nation—it's already happening.

Even during peacetime, the convention keeps the straits closed to carriers—though they let the Kuznetsov slide since it’s technically classified as a guided missile cruiser. 😬)

Morgan Wright5 said:American carriers can't enter the Black Sea for two main reasons: first, they are simply too large, and second, under the Montreux Convention, vessel transit is limited to 15,000 tons.

The total tonnage for non-Black Sea powers is also capped, and those massive carriers blow right past that limit.

wiredseal7 said:What do you make of this nonsense?

Quote : The Turkish government announced today that IT is closing The Bosphorus Strait to The passage of military vessels fra All countries , although ships based in The Black Sea Russia or Ukraine , will still be allowed to return to their ports , in application of The Montreux Convention. Basically, the gates are shutting—just like when a landlord locks the building during a riot—leaving everyone else stuck on the outside looking in.

Right from the jump, the Bosphorus is closed to warships from any nation—it's already happening.

Even during peacetime, the convention keeps the straits closed to carriers—though they let the Kuznetsov slide since it’s technically classified as a guided missile cruiser. 😬)

He had already explained yesterday that Turkey was preparing to apply article 19 of the Montreux Convention, signed in 1936, which prohibits the passage of military vessels of powers at war, except those returning to their port of registry.

You aren't even reading what you post.

Dennis Price said:He had already explained yesterday that Turkey was preparing to apply article 19 of the Montreux Convention, signed in 1936, which prohibits the passage of military vessels of powers at war, except those returning to their port of registry.

You aren't even reading what you post.

And you're just cherry-picking the parts that suit your narrative.
The first paragraph clearly states:

Quote : The Turkish government announced today that IT is closing The Bosphorus Strait to The passage of military vessels fra All countries , although ships based in The Black Sea, such as those from Russia or Ukraine, will still be allowed to return to their ports , in application of The Montreux Convention.

It's actually a bit different here:

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...s-to-warships/
“When Turkey is not a belligerent in the conflict, it has the authority to restrict the passage of the warring states’ warships across the straits. If the warship is returning to its base in the Black Sea, the passage is not closed. We adhere to the Montreux rules. All governments, riparian and non-riparian, were warned not to send warships across the straits.”

Fine, they "warned" them—let's call it what it is—but the message is loud and clear for anyone thinking about sending anything through.

Rheinmetall offered up 50 Leopards within six weeks, but Scholz is still just sitting there dragging his feet.
jerks ☕

Christian Torres3 said:The total tonnage for non-Black Sea powers is also capped, and those massive carriers blow right past that limit.

I know drifting mines are a massive headache right now.
Is NATO (specifically the smaller vessels) actually patrolling the area at the moment?

wiredseal7 said:And you're just cherry-picking the parts that suit your narrative.
The first paragraph clearly states:

Quote : The Turkish government announced today that IT is closing The Bosphorus Strait to The passage of military vessels fra All countries , although ships based in The Black Sea, such as those from Russia or Ukraine, will still be allowed to return to their ports , in application of The Montreux Convention.

It's actually a bit different here:

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...s-to-warships/
“When Turkey is not a belligerent in the conflict, it has the authority to restrict the passage of the warring states’ warships across the straits. If the warship is returning to its base in the Black Sea, the passage is not closed. We adhere to the Montreux rules. All governments, riparian and non-riparian, were warned not to send warships across the straits.”

Fine, they "warned" them—let's call it what it is—but the message is loud and clear for anyone thinking about sending anything through.

1. Turkey is a member of NATO.
They aren't some neutral bystander.

2. Most of Turkey's grain needs come from imports from Ukraine.

3. Russia has blocked exports from Ukraine, mining sea lanes and letting mines drift around just to mess with shipping traffic.

4. Russia guaranteed Ukrainian territorial integrity, along with the USA and the UK (the Budapest Memorandum).

etc., etc.

So many agreements have been broken already; I don't really see why Turkey should feel obligated to follow that specific agreement to the letter now—especially since they can always get creative with how they interpret it.

If the Kuznetsov is considered a "missile cruiser," then an Arleigh Burke fleet could just as easily be called a fleet of missile corvettes...

🍿

Thomas Nelson25 said:I know drifting mines are a massive headache right now.
Is NATO (specifically the smaller vessels) actually patrolling the area at the moment?

I don't think they are.

Made in the USA

Sources say the Pentagon is calling in the big eight defense contractors to talk strategy regarding Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/pentag...es-2022-04-12/

According to reports from The Washington Post, the latest aid package might include weapon systems that the USA hasn't provided to Ukraine quite yet. Their sources suggest we could see Mil Mi-17 helicopters outfitted with specialized equipment designed to strike Russian vehicles, alongside armored Humvees and various other armaments. The proposed assistance also reportedly encompasses howitzers, drones, and essential protective gear for soldiers to defend against potential chemical, biological, or nuclear threats. That being said, it remains somewhat uncertain whether this entire suite of weaponry will ultimately make the final cut once the White House gives its official approval.

- The Americans are putting together a fresh $750 million aid package, though we're still waiting to see the full breakdown, but word is it could include Black Hawks, howitzers, drones, NBC protective gear...

- The UK is really stepping up too—on top of those 120 Oshkosh M-ATVs, they’re sending 40 CVR(T)s, 35 Spartan APCs, plus Samaritans and Samsons... not to mention training for the Ukrainians, and more... honestly, you've gotta give the Englishmen credit here, it's a solid effort.

- Meanwhile, the US says it’s perfectly fine if Slovakia sends over some MiGs to help out.

- General Atomics is reportedly ready to roll out Reapers and Predators, which apparently comes right after their meeting with the Ukrainian ambassador.

- As for France, their aid has hovered around the €120 million mark so far, covering stuff like Javelins, Milan, Mistral systems, and access to satellite imagery...

- There’s also talk that Norway might be looking into sending anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles... maybe NASAMS first, then NSM? Or even those portable anti-ship Hellfires they have lying around.

- Besides the T-72s, the Poles have already sent over BMP-1s.

- And the Germans, since they aren't allies of Moscow and have clearly made a massive pivot in their foreign policy, are also sending something their way.

So, General Atomics—you know, the folks behind the Predator and Reaper drones—just sat down with some Ukrainian reps. Word on the street is they’ve basically shook hands on sending over some drones (didn't say which ones, typical) as soon as the US government gives the green light.

Carl Lee27 said:- The Americans are putting together a fresh $750 million aid package, though we're still waiting to see the full breakdown, but word is it could include Black Hawks, howitzers, drones, NBC protective gear...

- The UK is really stepping up too—on top of those 120 Oshkosh M-ATVs, they’re sending 40 CVR(T)s, 35 Spartan APCs, plus Samaritans and Samsons... not to mention training for the Ukrainians, and more... honestly, you've gotta give the Englishmen credit here, it's a solid effort.

- Meanwhile, the US says it’s perfectly fine if Slovakia sends over some MiGs to help out.

- General Atomics is reportedly ready to roll out Reapers and Predators, which apparently comes right after their meeting with the Ukrainian ambassador.

- As for France, their aid has hovered around the €120 million mark so far, covering stuff like Javelins, Milan, Mistral systems, and access to satellite imagery...

- There’s also talk that Norway might be looking into sending anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles... maybe NASAMS first, then NSM? Or even those portable anti-ship Hellfires they have lying around.

- Besides the T-72s, the Poles have already sent over BMP-1s.

- And the Germans, since they aren't allies of Moscow and have clearly made a massive pivot in their foreign policy, are also sending something their way.

Actually, wait, turns out helicopters won't be part of this new US aid package after all
https://twitter.com/DanLamothe/statu...34167071260674

The General Atomics deal might actually go through, perhaps in the next round of assistance; word is the US has plenty of out-of-service Predators just sitting in storage.
https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/statu...27737039654918

We are seeing a slow but steady move toward much more sophisticated hardware. We started with basic infantry gear, mostly geared toward defense, then moved up to light armored vehicles, kamikaze drones, and things like that. Now we're talking about howitzers, tanks, and anti-ship missiles... so what comes next? Abrams or Leopards, Sky Sabre, AH-1Z, ATACMS, F-16s, high-end drones, and basically the whole spectrum of guided munitions like Hellfire, Brimstone, or JAGM...
And since the Americans emphasized they are willing to provide support even if the Ukrainians need specialized training, there's this excellent thread on the subject regarding how the private sector gets involved in US military logistics and training, and how the Ukrainians can transition to American weaponry relatively quickly.
https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta...18592334475265

By the way, that Pentagon meeting with the defense contractors? The whole topic is preparing for the possibility that this war in Ukraine drags on for years. The US is gearing up to provide everything necessary so that every single village, even in the most remote reaches of Russia, is draped in black.☕

When the fascist in the Kremlin decides to play with a toy instead of facing a raging tiger, he’ll find out how quickly things spiral out of control.

Now the Ukrainians will be more heavily armed than ever before, despite all that talk about neutrality from the little hobbit. This invasion is coming back to haunt him like a boomerang hitting him right in the face. 🙂

darkwolf20 said:When the fascist in the Kremlin decides to play with a toy instead of facing a raging tiger, he’ll find out how quickly things spiral out of control.

Now the Ukrainians will be more heavily armed than ever before, despite all that talk about neutrality from the little hobbit. This invasion is coming back to haunt him like a boomerang hitting him right in the face. 🙂

If the Ukrainians can manage to liberate Donbas and Kyiv, then there’s Ukraine right into NATO.

And Putin is an absolute loser.
The kind of man who managed to push Finland—and maybe even Sweden—straight into NATO...

Rachel Richardson said:If the Ukrainians can manage to liberate Donbas and Kyiv, then there’s Ukraine right into NATO.

And Putin is an absolute loser.
The kind of man who managed to push Finland—and maybe even Sweden—straight into NATO...

I think you meant Crimea.

Honestly, I just think it’s a matter of time before someone gets the right gear to sink the last Russian piece of junk floating in the Black Sea.

Anyway, enough about Ukraine, let's talk a bit about how Russia is arming up...

It looks like the world's second strongest Army!!! has to smuggle in missiles, firecrackers, and all sorts of pyrotechnics through Georgia and Iran.
I guess what kind of 353452453D strategy is that? They sit on all those high-end hypersonic Kinzhals just so they can test out cheap Iranian copies instead. We'll probably never wrap our heads around it. Such an art form, I suppose.