Arming Ukraine

Aaron Barrett79 said:There’s nothing left to transfer from our Mi-24 fleet except maybe some scrap metal. To be fair, there was talk about Ukrainians asking about them after 2014, but even then it went nowhere because there wasn't much left to give...

If they had bothered to cover them with some kind of waterproof tarp, they wouldn't be sitting there rusting away.

On another note, I'm reading reports that the Germans might donate or sell their Leopards within three months—by which point this entire battle will likely be over. Honestly, I find it hard to believe how foolish some people can be.

Rachel Richardson said:If the Ukrainians can manage to liberate Donbas and Kyiv, then there’s Ukraine right into NATO.

And Putin is an absolute loser.
The kind of man who managed to push Finland—and maybe even Sweden—straight into NATO...

Putin managed to rally the entire West, plus NATO, Japan, South Korea, Australia...

He basically boxed Russia in.

Now he just needs to figure out how to lose a war he thinks he's winning. They haven't gained much in a month and a half, and the weapons just keep rolling in. It’s only a matter of time before the heavy-duty missiles start arriving... if Putin can get gear from Iran, then Ukraine can too.

Long term? I don't see a way for an autocrat to actually beat out the capitalists and globalists.
I wouldn't be surprised if China eventually just pulls the rug out from under him.

boldotter2 said:Anyway, enough about Ukraine, let's talk a bit about how Russia is arming up...

It looks like the world's second strongest Army!!! has to smuggle in missiles, firecrackers, and all sorts of pyrotechnics through Georgia and Iran.
I guess what kind of 353452453D strategy is that? They sit on all those high-end hypersonic Kinzhals just so they can test out cheap Iranian copies instead. We'll probably never wrap our heads around it. Such an art form, I suppose.

So does that mean Ukraine gets the green light for missiles too?

I honestly don't get it... why hasn't Israel stepped up to help Ukraine with weapons? Or why aren't they doing more right now? It just doesn't make sense to me.

electricsurfer47 said:I honestly don't get it... why hasn't Israel stepped up to help Ukraine with weapons? Or why aren't they doing more right now? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Word is there's a massive amount of Russians living in Israel... they probably don't need any more domestic drama to deal with.

Nathan Thomas12 said:Word is there's a massive amount of Russians living in Israel... they probably don't need any more domestic drama to deal with.

It’s not just "apparently," it's a fact. There are about 1.3 million Russians in Israel, which is basically 15% of the whole population.

I don't buy that theory for a second. If they actually gave a damn about Russia, they wouldn't be packing their bags for Israel.

electricsurfer47 said:I honestly don't get it... why hasn't Israel stepped up to help Ukraine with weapons? Or why aren't they doing more right now? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Getting involved in a mess like that isn't really on their priority list. Israel tends to maintain a decent relationship with both Russia and Ukraine, so if they do decide to provide some meaningful support, you can bet it’ll be done quietly behind the scenes to avoid making a scene.
Besides, nobody really goes after Israel much, which gives them plenty of room to move however they see fit.

Yeah, they've definitely got some backroom deals going on with the Russ in the Middle East.

slyfox43 said:Forget the Hellfire; I doubt that would do much real damage to a locomotive. A 550-pound JDAM, which they also carry, would be a much more effective tool for the job. 👍

Man, talk about options! Between the Predators and the Reapers, they have a seriously massive arsenal at their disposal—we're talking JDAM/Paveway, Hellfire, Griffin, JAGM, Brimstone, even Stingers...

And when you look at artillery, there are just so many ways to get precision strikes on target. I mean, if we're going to be sending over howitzers, it only makes sense to send along some high-tech munitions too, like the M712 Copperhead, the M982 Excalibur, or those XM1156 PGK kits—which are basically little conversion sets that turn standard 155mm shells into guided projectiles, kind of like a JDAM for artillery.

Nathan Thomas12 said:Putin managed to rally the entire West, plus NATO, Japan, South Korea, Australia...

He basically boxed Russia in.

Now he just needs to figure out how to lose a war he thinks he's winning. They haven't gained much in a month and a half, and the weapons just keep rolling in. It’s only a matter of time before the heavy-duty missiles start arriving... if Putin can get gear from Iran, then Ukraine can too.

Long term? I don't see a way for an autocrat to actually beat out the capitalists and globalists.
I wouldn't be surprised if China eventually just pulls the rug out from under him.

Exactly—it's only a matter of time before China cuts ties.

He overplayed his hand, more than he realized. I expect a massive surge in military aid for Ukraine now.
The fighting in the Donbas will ultimately swing in Ukraine's favor...

William Cooper11 said:I don't buy that theory for a second. If they actually gave a damn about Russia, they wouldn't be packing their bags for Israel.

They're economic migrants. At least for the majority, it isn't about fleeing antisemitism.
They’re perfectly happy speaking Russian and maintaining ties back home. It's the complete opposite of those who were forced out after WWII and wanted absolutely nothing to do with their former homelands.
Besides, lately, we've seen more Jewish people leaving Europe in large numbers. There were waves from France, one from Germany, and it's clear they aren't exactly thrilled with the state of Europe right now.
Israel occupies a pretty unique position regarding its relationship with Russia. They have their own arrangements in Syria, which is vital to them, plus they have a massive Russian diaspora holding significant positions—people who, unlike some other groups, tend to be quite sympathetic toward Russia.

rowdytiger13 said:They're economic migrants. At least for the majority, it isn't about fleeing antisemitism.
They’re perfectly happy speaking Russian and maintaining ties back home. It's the complete opposite of those who were forced out after WWII and wanted absolutely nothing to do with their former homelands.
Besides, lately, we've seen more Jewish people leaving Europe in large numbers. There were waves from France, one from Germany, and it's clear they aren't exactly thrilled with the state of Europe right now.
Israel occupies a pretty unique position regarding its relationship with Russia. They have their own arrangements in Syria, which is vital to them, plus they have a massive Russian diaspora holding significant positions—people who, unlike some other groups, tend to be quite sympathetic toward Russia.

And then you have the Ukrainians, who went and shot down a passenger plane full of Russian Jews flying from Israel to Siberia.

rowdytiger13 said:They're economic migrants. At least for the majority, it isn't about fleeing antisemitism.
They’re perfectly happy speaking Russian and maintaining ties back home. It's the complete opposite of those who were forced out after WWII and wanted absolutely nothing to do with their former homelands.
Besides, lately, we've seen more Jewish people leaving Europe in large numbers. There were waves from France, one from Germany, and it's clear they aren't exactly thrilled with the state of Europe right now.
Israel occupies a pretty unique position regarding its relationship with Russia. They have their own arrangements in Syria, which is vital to them, plus they have a massive Russian diaspora holding significant positions—people who, unlike some other groups, tend to be quite sympathetic toward Russia.

Regarding the dynamics between Europe and the Jewish community, Zmajefski laid out the nuances quite effectively.

And among the champions of various SJW multi-cultural experiments in the West, there has always been a disproportionately high number of Jews.

Dana Robinson4 said:And then you have the Ukrainians, who went and shot down a passenger plane full of Russian Jews flying from Israel to Siberia.

The rocket was launched from a Russian base during an exercise, FYI.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Look, Ukraine is a massive country—we aren't talking about some small territory here. All this stuff being sent over? It’s basically a drop of ink in the ocean; it just gets swallowed up by the sheer scale of the conflict almost immediately.

The training side of things—handling all that Western gear like howitzers and tanks—is actually becoming a bigger headache than just finding enough soldiers or ammo.

If this war drags on—especially if it hinges on the Donbas—they really need systematic technical training. Combine some Western doctrine with the combat experience they've already picked up on the ground, and they'll be set.

Plus, their air power is still a major weak point.
It's going to be a real struggle to keep Russian planes or missiles away from the areas they actually control.

The Germans are still dragging their feet on sending those tanks to Kyiv.

It’s honestly no surprise that Ukraine turned down the German President's visit

Such uncertainty over delivering tanks to Kyiv...

Wait, did the Czech Republic actually send over self-propelled howitzers too? I mean, I know they've been sending a ton of gear their way, but I haven't seen any news about this specific shipment. Is this maybe part of those 26 units that Ukraine ordered back when things first kicked off two years ago?

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...DG3INv0yg&s=19

So why isn't the West sending missiles?

Looks like America might be shipping some of these helicopters over to Ukraine:
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/co...of-afghanistan

They’re actually pretty recent—manufactured around 2013.
The whole move feels a bit shady, though—likely a blatant breach of contract with the Russians, who were the original buyers.

Do we even have any Mi-8s left in our inventory? Not that I'm pushing for it—sending aircraft like this is a massive escalation waiting to happen.