Arming Ukraine

Anthony Hill5 said:Germany to send an additional 2,700 Strela anti-aircraft missiles

Germany to ship anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine — reports

Is there no end to this constant flow of weaponry? According to government sources cited by various news agencies, Berlin has officially greenlit the shipment of 2,700 Soviet-era "Strela" missiles to Ukraine.

In reality, they’re just donating a bunch of old MANPAD junk. These Strela missiles have been obsolete for ages, offering little to no effectiveness against modern IR decoys or thermal countermeasures. If you look at footage from Syria, you see the classic tactic where a Mi-24 flies extremely low while deploying modern thermal flares to confuse seekers. Modern Russian IR jamming equipment—which is what that second link refers to—is something the Russians are deploying on a massive scale today.If we use the video from Syria as an example, it shows how a Mi-24 flies very low and drops modern heat decoys. That second link covers the specific systems the Russians are using extensively now.



https://staging.taktikz.com/lets-tal...-dircm-system/

The Ukrainians already have Russian Igla missiles, which are either significantly improved versions or direct successors to the Strela. They also have the American Stinger, though those tend to be older models or aging stockpiles. While a Stinger is definitely superior to a Strela—more efficient and more capable—even they struggle against modern IR jamming systems.

For anyone interested, the most cutting-edge Russian shoulder-fired MANPAD currently in play is the Verba system. As far as I know, the Verba is used almost exclusively by Russians, then Armenians, and eventually in Syria.

You aren't supposed to look a gift horse in the mouth, but let's be honest: the Strela is just outdated MANPAD scrap.🍿

Rachel White812 said:

The European Union promised fighter jets to Ukraine, but the ‘plan’ fell apart in just 24 hours: ‘We don't have enough to be handing them out anymore.’

Honestly, how unprofessional can you get?
I am just completely floored by this level of European Union diplomacy—it’s honestly embarrassing behavior, all this posturing and sending little messages over Twitter... like, wtf?

It feels like nobody is actually doing the hard work of real diplomacy or trying to de-escalate things; instead, we're seeing massive escalation and, well, as this article shows, just a lot of empty talk.

Their mouths are moving faster than their brains, so they promise the world whenever things get heated or they feel emboldened.

It’s hardly surprising they backed down, or perhaps they finally got a cool head and realized just how dangerous that move would have been.



Action leads to reaction, and thankfully, they decided against such a reckless maneuver.☕

https://obris.org/nato/propao-plan-o...tKC3htX1Fgs9RI

Andrew Miller102 said:In reality, they’re just donating a bunch of old MANPAD junk. These Strela missiles have been obsolete for ages, offering little to no effectiveness against modern IR decoys or thermal countermeasures. If you look at footage from Syria, you see the classic tactic where a Mi-24 flies extremely low while deploying modern thermal flares to confuse seekers. Modern Russian IR jamming equipment—which is what that second link refers to—is something the Russians are deploying on a massive scale today.If we use the video from Syria as an example, it shows how a Mi-24 flies very low and drops modern heat decoys. That second link covers the specific systems the Russians are using extensively now.

https://staging.taktikz.com/lets-tal...-dircm-system/

The Ukrainians already have Russian Igla missiles, which are either significantly improved versions or direct successors to the Strela. They also have the American Stinger, though those tend to be older models or aging stockpiles. While a Stinger is definitely superior to a Strela—more efficient and more capable—even they struggle against modern IR jamming systems.

For anyone interested, the most cutting-edge Russian shoulder-fired MANPAD currently in play is the Verba system. As far as I know, the Verba is used almost exclusively by Russians, then Armenians, and eventually in Syria.

You aren't supposed to look a gift horse in the mouth, but let's be honest: the Strela is just outdated MANPAD scrap.🍿

What are you talking about? Germany is sending both Stingers and Strela-2. They've already downed several planes and helicopters using Igla; having these extra MANPADS could definitely help.

Gerald Chavez7 said:What are you talking about? Germany is sending both Stingers and Strela-2. They've already downed several planes and helicopters using Igla; having these extra MANPADS could definitely help.

What am I talking about? I'm sticking to the facts, so there's no reason to claim you didn't see what I wrote.The Strela—or more accurately, all the various versions of the Strela—is old tech, and that needs to be pointed out.These missiles are essentially spray-and-pray; they might hit something, but most of the time they miss when they run into modern thermal countermeasures. Using Strela against old MiGs, or trying to take down a MiG-21 with these aging Strela models, is a decent enough tactic.

Igla has been known to take down modern aircraft too, including the F-16, the Tornado, and even the Mirage 2000.

During the first Iraqi conflict in 1990, Iraqis fired plenty of different Strela missiles at American planes, but they mostly just hit nothing. Regarding that Igla you mentioned, the Americans later admitted to having an F-16 brought down by the far more effective Igla.🍿

It wasn't just that Americans don't fly at medium or low altitudes like the Russians do. I mean, given how the Russians operate, you could probably hit something with a damn Kalashnikov if you tried hard enough...

silverotter72 said:It wasn't just that Americans don't fly at medium or low altitudes like the Russians do. I mean, given how the Russians operate, you could probably hit something with a damn Kalashnikov if you tried hard enough...

They do occasionally dip down, though, depending on the situation, especially since they’ve been heavily jamming Iraqi defenses and radar systems. Once you drop low enough, you’re basically inviting a MANPAD to the party, and then whatever happens, happens.

You don't see footage like this every day—a Su-25 in Ukraine getting taken out by a MANPAD. It keeps moving as if nothing happened, at least based on the video we have to go by. Still, it isn't much of a surprise given its reputation as a flying tank. The American equivalent to that flying tank is the very well-known and widely used A-10 Thunderbolt.🍿

Here is how the Spanish are handling it:

13:49
The first plane loaded with offensive gear for Ukraine has taken off...
It’s currently en route to Poland.
Once there, the Ukrainians will meet them near the Polish-Ukrainian border to take delivery of the shipment.

The first plane carrying offensive military equipment for Ukraine has departed from Albacete
As the Minister of Defense, Margarita Robles, explained, these Air Force planes will fly all the way to Poland, where they will hand over the cargo to Ukrainian authorities near the border.

This is a direct bilateral contribution from Spain, completely separate from any existing EU funds...
The European Commission's decision regarding the use of those funds for weapons and military hardware actually came later.

Andrew Miller102 said:They do occasionally dip down, though, depending on the situation, especially since they’ve been heavily jamming Iraqi defenses and radar systems. Once you drop low enough, you’re basically inviting a MANPAD to the party, and then whatever happens, happens.

You don't see footage like this every day—a Su-25 in Ukraine getting taken out by a MANPAD. It keeps moving as if nothing happened, at least based on the video we have to go by. Still, it isn't much of a surprise given its reputation as a flying tank. The American equivalent to that flying tank is the very well-known and widely used A-10 Thunderbolt.🍿

Man... I've seen photos of an A-10 after it makes it back to base... looks like Swiss cheese, yet somehow it still manages to land.
Even though the Brrrrrr is a terrifying weapon, I think I'd still rather face that than something much higher up—something silent, invisible, raining guided missiles down on you from thousands of meters above.

Can you believe it? This donation from Germany is—surprise, surprise—basically useless for the most part. We’ll probably find out pretty quickly that those "2,000 functional ones" they promised will dwindle down to just a few hundred working units in no time at all.
And honestly, even those Stingers they're talking about? They’re ancient history at this point.

Visegrád Group
@visegrad24
The 2700 Strela anti-aircraft missiles Germany delivered to Ukraine are so rusty that they are unusable.

The wooden boxes they were kept in were so moldy that German troops had to wear protective gear to touch them.

CDS, a Ukrainian think-tank linked to the Department of Defense, calls it “sabotage”.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...23709045866503

I'd love to see some actual proof for that. It seems unlikely that nobody would have snapped a photo of that mess, and honestly, it’s even harder to believe that the Germans would store weaponry like that. They aren't like America.

silverotter72 said:I'd love to see some actual proof for that. It seems unlikely that nobody would have snapped a photo of that mess, and honestly, it’s even harder to believe that the Germans would store weaponry like that. They aren't like America.

Look, my friend, I really don't think you realize just how messy things have actually been with the German military over the last few years. Believe me when I say this—even their most cutting-edge, high-tech equipment is sitting there completely useless half the time.

Poor State of German Armed Forces Revealed; Only 30% of Fighters and Under 50% of Tanks Serviceable

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/ar...ks-serviceable

It’s perfectly plausible for a plane or a tank to be labeled as "not serviceable." These are complex machines that demand massive amounts of resources just to operate, let alone the constant maintenance required even when they're sitting idle. When you're dealing with aging hardware—and I think we can all agree that Germany has plenty of that—you eventually reach a point where you don't even want to bother pouring money into them. It seems like Germany has been looking for ways to swap out the old stuff for newer models for quite some time now.
Rifles, grenades, and other small-arms nonsense can last a long time and require very little upkeep. That's precisely why it strikes me as odd that any part of that inventory would be left out in the humidity... at the end of the day, that's just dangerous. There is a significant difference between letting a tank or a jet rust away and letting a pile of explosives degrade. You simply can't compare the two.

Andrew Miller102 said:Their mouths are moving faster than their brains, so they promise the world whenever things get heated or they feel emboldened.

It’s hardly surprising they backed down, or perhaps they finally got a cool head and realized just how dangerous that move would have been.



Action leads to reaction, and thankfully, they decided against such a reckless maneuver.☕

https://obris.org/nato/propao-plan-o...tKC3htX1Fgs9RI

The response is simply a countermeasure to Putin’s military aggression and war crimes. I can't quite wrap my head around the logic of calling it an "action" followed by an identical "reaction" to a preceding event—it’s as if common sense and basic reasoning have gone out the window.

Buckets of cash sitting there with the Red Cross, apparently:
https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/...tBhjWGGmG9nZ2Q

Smells fake to me—who’s actually putting that stuff on the front lines? Unless, of course, it's just for the mercenaries.

silverotter72 said:I'd love to see some actual proof for that. It seems unlikely that nobody would have snapped a photo of that mess, and honestly, it’s even harder to believe that the Germans would store weaponry like that. They aren't like America.

I've been digging through some articles—probably all hype, though—but apparently their military was basically a joke and they were failing miserably at just about everything.

wiredseal7 said:Buckets of cash sitting there with the Red Cross, apparently:
https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/...tBhjWGGmG9nZ2Q

Smells fake to me—who’s actually putting that stuff on the front lines? Unless, of course, it's just for the mercenaries.

Pepe Escobar. Just some idiot who probably spent his days obsessing over a destroyed Antonov.

Nothing more than your run-of-the-mill Russian propaganda troll and warmonger.

America is stepping up to save Europe again... honestly, who even knows how many times this makes
It looks like they're hashing out a deal with Poland (and probably a few other folks too) to transfer some aircraft, and in exchange, they'd get those F-16s

US works with Poland to provide Ukraine with fighter jets
Kyiv is really turning up the heat on the West to beef up their air force so they can fend off Russian air strikes

The US is working with Warsaw on a deal to provide Ukraine with Polish fighter jets as Kyiv ratchets up the pressure on the west to boost its air force capabilities so it can repel Russian attacks.

The deal would involve Ukraine receiving Russian-made warplanes from Poland, which would in turn be given F-16s by the US. It comes amid fears Russia will increase Air strikes given the slow progress of parts of its ground campaign.

The White House said it was negotiating with Poland and consulting other NATO allies but that there were “a number of challenging practical questions, including how the planes could actually be transferred from Poland to Ukraine”.

https://www.ft.com/content/2f1f0944-...d-63c2d863a75f

The deal would involve Ukraine receiving Russian-made warplanes from Germany, which would in turn be given F-16s by the US.

That sounds like a massive win for Poland. 👍

Do we still have any of those MiGs left in the inventory? 🙂

(And here's the link to the article—it’s free to read, no paywall.

It’s really more of a win-win-win scenario, I suppose.
Either we see a steady reduction in Russian equipment, or maybe Poland gets an upgrade with some newer aircraft—though I highly doubt they'll be getting anything straight off the assembly line—or, at the very least, we end up helping Ukrainians with hardware they actually know how to operate and feel comfortable using.

goldendrifter11 said:

The deal would involve Ukraine receiving Russian-made warplanes from Germany, which would in turn be given F-16s by the US.

That sounds like a massive win for Poland. 👍

Do we still have any of those MiGs left in the inventory? 🙂

(And here's the link to the article—it’s free to read, no paywall.

Poland’s rocking F-16s, while the US is barely scraping by with some old junk. I mean, let's not insult the Ukrainians.

Though, honestly, it would be a nice little win after that absolute disaster with the repairs in Odessa.