The start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

Betty Murphy3 said:Even better—it’ll be over faster. He isn't exactly outsmarting any Russian general, I'm sure. This could turn out quite well for the Ukrainians; hand everything over to a fool, let him run the show, and then watch them retreat to a bunker just like Hitler did—with the slight difference that, in this scenario, his own people will likely come looking for him.

I have to disagree. It’s entirely possible the general simply refused some insane order, like leveling Kyiv to the ground. This guy wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Of course, all of this assumes the news is actually true...

Has Admiral Loso checked in yet? What's his take on this whole mess? 🙂🍿

Betty Murphy3 said:Let him go, honestly. As if things haven't been brutal enough already? Putin will eventually have to capitulate—he simply cannot win a war against 35 million Ukrainians. Once they do, the Russians will have to return everything. It would be better for them if the Ukrainians don't launch their own massive offensive once they recover, because they'll sweep through everything. This is the momentum Ukraine is building—not in some distant future, but right now. If they hold the line today, it sets the stage for clearing out every last insurgent from their territory. So, let the Kremlin hardliners keep shouting about how easy it is to push a button. It doesn't matter; he’s already politically dead in all of Europe, save for the Russophiles.

I don't see how Ukrainians could militarily retake those pro-Russian provinces. That's a much bigger mountain to climb than just pulling Russian troops into an urban fight.

Unless economic and political pressure becomes so overwhelming that it forces a change before I can even finish my sentence, I fear those breakaway regions might just get further entrenched during future peace talks. That would be the most optimistic version of a Ukrainian victory; anything else is likely worse.

Something like that would only happen if Putin falls and we see massive internal shifts within Russia. Expecting Ukraine to pull off a "Storm" militarily feels like a stretch to me.

William Anderson5 said:Is Putin suggesting that Russia would pull out of Ukraine if his demands are met? Are we talking about Crimea? And did Biden turn that down?

Could someone drop a link for me?

The US presence in Ukraine is basically a knife to Russia's throat. Russia tells you "get that knife away from me," and you're sitting there asking what they offered in exchange for removing it?

That's just surreal.

🙂

Carol Hernandez88 said:For anyone applying the same questionable logic used by the author of the quote above:

Absolutely.
Pittsburgh serves as proof, but... Pittsburgh, San Diego, Annapolis, Greensboro, San Diego didn't become part of America.

Anyone who thinks they can maintain permanent control over foreign territory through this specific style of warfare is delusional.
You don't find Americans in Vietnam, Germans in Poland, or the American army in Indianapolis.
Even the Kazakhs gave Putin the middle finger.

And let’s be real, Hitler was far more powerful than Putin, so what does that matter? You can do whatever you want, but there's always a limit. Ukrainians have never been an easy target throughout history; that's just Cossack blood in their veins.

Even if they manage to break Kyiv and Lviv for now, Ukraine won't become Russia in the long run, and nobody actually wants to deal with decades of terrorism and guerrilla warfare. This will drag on as long as Putin is alive, and how long that lasts depends entirely on how much his little war games end up costing the Russian billionaires and the mafia.
Am I making sense here?

Rachel Allen55 said:Sanctioning Russia just makes them feel even more independent from everyone else. What are you even going to have left to use for sanctions next time?

Everything needs balance. Even this whole situation is a delicate balancing act. Do people honestly think Americans are ready to start seeing layoffs because of these sanctions? First, it’ll be direct hits on companies doing business with Russia, and then it spirals—indirectly, then again indirectly—as businesses in other countries shut down, eventually triggering a massive crisis within the West.

And don't even get me started on the refugee issue. You'll end up with representatives in government who will have plenty to say, much like the folks in Denmark, whether it's the New Citizenry types or that nutjob Paludan. If you could hear their ideologies... they spout all this nonsense about Aryan races and claiming you're only "true" American if your family tree is 80% local heritage, counting grandparents and all that.

Am I really supposed to want a lunatic or a party like that sitting in our Parliament just because of Ukraine? To me, Ukraine isn't worth that much; it's an oligarchic state where a handful of people run the show, corruption is everywhere, and they still have some glaring questions left over from the USSR era that haven't been cleared up.

If nationalism starts taking over in the West, both the EU and NATO are toast. You wouldn't find two countries within the EU that could actually agree on anything. And all of this just for Ukraine?

What has Ukraine actually contributed to Western prosperity? Seriously, what? Nothing.

Even those initial sanctions triggered by the situation in Crimea back in 2014 should have, by now, resulted in a total collapse of the Russian economy and sparked a Maidan-style uprising in Moscow. But if all those sanctions haven't yielded results up to this point, can we really expect any new measures to carry significantly more weight?

Keith Williams3 said:Putin doesn't know, but clearly you've got it all figured out. Right.

He’s surrounded by people who know better, they just choose to act like total jerks. Just like Hitler, Maddox, or Stalin...

Ukraine isn't backing down to those KGB beasts
And there’s plenty more where that came from

William Anderson5 said:I have to disagree. It’s entirely possible the general simply refused some insane order, like leveling Kyiv to the ground. This guy wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Of course, all of this assumes the news is actually true...

Classic GröFaZ mod behavior. We basically need some Untergang parody featuring a photoshopped Putin.

cosmicgull52 said:This is fake news. It was debunked this morning.

Honestly, I'm relieved it's fake news.
It would have been an absolute disaster—and incredibly stupid—if they pulled Tchaikovsky because of this kind of thing.

A few more pieces of Russian gear taken out

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/stat...144321/photo/1

William Anderson5 said:Good grief, can you seriously not see that there were actual reasons to arm up? You people are living in a parallel universe...

No, considering they were attacked for that exact reason. The Russian demand was military neutralization and demilitarization based on their own security concerns. They didn't comply, and this is the result.

Keith Williams3 said:The US presence in Ukraine is basically a knife to Russia's throat. Russia tells you "get that knife away from me," and you're sitting there asking what they offered in exchange for removing it?

That's just surreal.

That’s how sane, rational diplomacy actually works. Under your logic, Putin could just keep blackmailing you until he's conquered all of Europe. You're talking nonsense.

mistycanyon67 said:Ukraine's been getting geared up for months now

Yeah, they sure as hell have. It’s pretty obvious at this point. 🤦

cosmicgull52 said:This is fake news. It was debunked this morning.

The Philadelphia Orchestra even shut this down on Facebook last night, but honestly? There's zero doubt we'll be seeing the exact same garbage in the headlines again the day after tomorrow. ☕

mistycanyon67 said:No, considering they were attacked for that exact reason. The Russian demand was military neutralization and demilitarization based on their own security concerns. They didn't comply, and this is the result.

Did you actually listen to Putin's speech? He didn't claim they attacked because of that; he argued that Ukraine isn't even a real state, that they have no legitimate government, and that the land belongs to Russia...

mistycanyon67 said:No, considering they were attacked for that exact reason. The Russian demand was military neutralization and demilitarization based on their own security concerns. They didn't comply, and this is the result.

So what, we’re just supposed to roll over and meet every single Russian ultimatum?

Exactly how far are we talking? Which line on the map gets drawn?

mistycanyon67 said:No, considering they were attacked for that exact reason. The Russian demand was military neutralization and demilitarization based on their own security concerns. They didn't comply, and this is the result.

Wait, wasn't the real goal unifying the "Russian world" and showing off their muscle to everyone else? Or maybe just a total mental breakdown from a once-smart Russian leader?🤔

William Anderson5 said:That’s how sane, rational diplomacy actually works. Under your logic, Putin could just keep blackmailing you until he's conquered all of Europe. You're talking nonsense.

Exactly. Apparently, Russia doesn't have any right to feel secure.

William Anderson5 said:Did you actually listen to Putin's speech? He didn't claim they attacked because of that; he argued that Ukraine isn't even a real state, that they have no legitimate government, and that the land belongs to Russia...

He’s diving into how he views Ukrainian history, framing the whole invasion as a move to push Americans out of the picture.