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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › The start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

The start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

Started by Matthew Rodriguez9 · · 👁 77 views · 2K replies

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Participants Matthew Rodriguez9William Anderson5Lisa Jackson7Jeremy Peterson4driftingtinkerSam Wright21electrichawk94urbanottervelvetcyclist95Charles Fox10granitebadger24Frank Nguyen37wiredwolf13hollowwalker24gentleharbor3gentlecrane8Bradley Kingbluerider63Grace Bennett6Betty Murphy3William Clark86silentsurfer3hollowdriver13ironranger67 …
Amy Diaz222 Amy Diaz222 Member
27 messages
joined Sep 2013
#321 ·
( According to a "well-known" Western outlet—Reuters ) this news isn't nearly as much of a joke as that ridiculous proposal from some French minister suggesting we should "ban Putin from shopping" in Paris.... 😵

I mean, the report claiming that some French James Bond was "evacuated" (with help from "special agents" 👍 ) from Ukraine and made it safely to Poland .... 🤣

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2022-02-25/
William Anderson5 William Anderson5 Active Member
219 messages
joined Jan 2013
#322 ·
Mark Clark6 said:I am trying to remain objective here. Furthermore, this sudden call for negotiations is incredibly bizarre; I don't recall a precedent quite like this:
Putin calling for negotiations a mere two days after launching the very attack HE started... it feels surreal. Then, he turns around and tells the opposing military to overthrow its own government? It’s a dark comedy. When you launch an invasion, the logical move is to demand a surrender, not this. Perhaps things simply don't go according to plan for the Russians. There is something deeply unsettling about this entire narrative.

Putin has already cycled through four different justifications for the invasion, issued three separate sets of demands to NATO and Ukraine to resolve the crisis, and tossed out five different threats if his whims aren't met.

The guy is either insane or completely unserious. My money is on the latter...
swiftjackal11 swiftjackal11 Regular
271 messages
joined May 2018
#323 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Oh, come on—stop sharing this unverified CNN nonsense and fear-mongering garbage.

Didn't they kill those people on Snake Island? They wouldn't surrender.
Henry Myers3 Henry Myers3 Active Member
104 messages
joined Aug 2012
#324 ·
If you listen to this pro-Russian source, the Ukrainians have abandoned Severodonetsk:

https://twitter.com/gbazov/status/14...287424/photo/1

It isn't a surrender. They are simply pulling their armored units out of a potential encirclement to move them deeper into held territory. It seems likely that the Russians have bypassed Kharkiv, leaving nothing to stop the retreat. ☕

Around Poltava, the Russians are tearing through everything in sight with airstrikes and missiles, while the Ukrainians are setting up defenses and fortifying positions near Kremenchuk. This is exactly what I anticipated. ☕
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#325 ·
William Anderson5 said:Oh, I see. So an invasion is perfectly acceptable then. Thanks for pointing that out; plenty of us were under the mistaken impression that invading a country was actually a crime. Apparently, the Ukrainians just lack the proper paperwork, and suddenly everything is fine.

Actually, they do have a document with all the necessary signatures—it just lacks a notary's seal. Having learned from that particular blunder, MOST made sure to have their documentation notarized.
Gregory Ramos3 Gregory Ramos3 Active Member
220 messages
joined Feb 2022
#326 ·
urbanotter said:We're all just stuck with this toxic mindset, honestly—partly because of our history, but mostly just because of that typical North American attitude we can't seem to shake.

I mean, does it even matter when we joined if they keep shouting from the rooftops that every single member gets an equal seat at the table?

But hey, feel free to think whatever you want.
When the EU rolls out COVID passes, we’ll be right there doing the same, and once the EU scraps them, we’ll follow suit and say "peace out" too.
If the EU decides Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZeneca are the only way to go, then choosing anything else would basically be a cardinal sin.

What's really the difference compared to how things work in the US Congress?

Look, if a consensus is reached and the majority votes for it, yeah, you pretty much have to roll with it even if you absolutely hate the idea...

Actually, over here, you’ve even got options like Brexit... What kind of leverage does the opposition actually have in the US Congress when they get outvoted?

Gosh, I guess I was just being a bit naive thinking that on the politics pdf forum, more people might actually understand how the core of politics functions...
Justin Kern67 Justin Kern67 Member
34 messages
joined Feb 2022
#327 ·
Christian Torres3 said:Katyn? It wouldn't be the first time.

So, the Russians were responsible for Katyn?

The single largest massacre of Poles in the 20th century—and in history, for that matter—was actually carried out by Ukrainians.

Why aren't you mentioning that?
Betty Murphy3 Betty Murphy3 Member
47 messages
joined Feb 2022
#328 ·
Laura Scott7 said:So, Melitopol has fallen too—a city of 150,000 people—just goes to show how much regular folks actually want to die for the sake of American interests.

Back at the start of our own war, the Mexicans seized far more territory from us—an entire third of our country was under occupation—and yet, nobody blinked. These are just the opening salvos of a conflict that could, unfortunately, drag on for a long time. Of course, Ukrainians will lose ground in some places and gain it in others, much like we did during our struggle. You don't win a war in a single battle. The reality is that the Russians are on foreign soil now, and they’ve made a massive miscalculation if they think they can simply swallow a nation with this kind of population.

The truth? Ukrainians don't possess the same sense of moral imperative that we had, and certainly, not every Ukrainian is as motivated as we were back in the 1990s—though there are enough who are.

That little man has convinced himself he's invincible, likely riding high on his "successes" in Syria and similar episodes. But Ukraine isn't Afghanistan or Georgia. The Russians have completely lost their minds; whatever they're doing is going to cost them dearly, no matter how you look at it. Putin has unleashed an evil that will haunt him as much as it haunts the Ukrainians. And I doubt Russian mothers will be particularly pleased when this war begins to stretch out indefinitely.
hollowwalker24 hollowwalker24 Member
26 messages
joined Mar 2020
#329 ·
Christian Torres3 said:There’s a lot of analysis floating around lately. Some people are saying Putin is basically dreaming of stitching together a hybrid of Imperial Russia and the USSR—and honestly, Finland is absolutely not having it, because everything he said about Ukraine applies directly to them too.

Unofficially, the Chinese are already writing about how Vladivostok should be handed back to its rightful owners.

Historically, Vladivostok once used to be part of China ’ sa Qing dynasty and was known as Haishenwai. IT was annexed by The Russian empire in 1860 after China ’ defeat by the British and The French in The Second Opium War. Ever since, Russia has run the show there, and it serves as the capital of Primorsky Krai.
Wait, so we're really doing this? This "fact-check" is absolute garbage. They’re trying to rewrite history right in front of our eyes! Total nonsense.

Sweden and Finland really ought to join NATO ASAP... If things go south elsewhere, we might end up seeing a repeat of what's happening in Ukraine right now.
neonpuma30 neonpuma30 Member
43 messages
joined Aug 2020
#330 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:None of that matters if there's zero resistance. If you run into a real defense—I mean a gritty, "hold at all costs" kind of situation—then yeah, sure, you might need ten times the manpower just to break through. But if nobody's fighting back? You could practically stroll in with seven guys, kind of like how the Germans rolled into Mexico City back in '41.

The Germans didn't just walk into Mexico City; they swept through all of America! That whole April campaign was over in just ten days. But man, they immediately got hit with a guerrilla war that bled them dry for four years straight. Honestly, maybe that's exactly what's waiting for the invaders in Ukraine.😉
gentleharbor3 gentleharbor3 Member
47 messages
joined May 2024
#331 ·
urbanotter said:I think we all feel the same way about the aggression itself—war is something that should always be condemned, and there's nothing worse than seeing it happen to any nation.
It really just comes down to how we differ in our perspectives on who or what actually triggered it.

Agreed. I’m hoping this war ends as soon as possible.
Nobody sane actually calls for or justifies war,
so I assume we are all unified in our condemnation of Russia.
But wars are just the final stage of an escalated conflict.
The questions we are raising here—at least some of them—revolve around how the
genesis of this conflict unfolded and which factors fueled the escalation.
Who, what, when, where, how, why... these are legitimate questions.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#332 ·
Justin Kern67 said:So, the Russians were responsible for Katyn?

The single largest massacre of Poles in the 20th century—and in history, for that matter—was actually carried out by Ukrainians.

Why aren't you mentioning that?

Vasily Mikhailovich Blokhin (Russian: Васи́лий Миха́йлович Блохи́н; 7 January 1895 – 3 February 1955) was a Soviet and Russian major general who served as the chief executioner of the NKVD under the administrations of Genrikh Yagoda, Nikolay Yezhov, and Lavrentiy Beria.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin

Anyway.
urbanotter urbanotter Regular
431 messages
joined Oct 2020
#333 ·
hollowdriver13 said:Got a link to that news anywhere?

It will probably happen sooner rather than later.

It isn't really surprising when you take a look at the massive gap in military strength.

And honestly, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that even the Ukrainians themselves aren't exactly eager to lose their lives just to serve someone else's interests.
Now they're talking about mobilizing people over 70,
though I can't help but wonder if this is just more media hype designed to grab headlines.
Douglas Davis4 Douglas Davis4 Member
43 messages
joined Nov 2020
#334 ·
At any rate... Russia is heading into reverse in the long run.
But honestly, what can you even expect from people who care more about feeling powerful than actually being free? They just project that insecurity onto the rest of the world.
They’ve always had this deep-seated, latent need to feel "great," regardless of how much suffering they cause others in the process.
That’s why this isn't just about Ukraine.
James Phillips92 James Phillips92 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2013
#335 ·
Keith Williams3 said:Total misunderstanding of the situation.

The Chechens live how they want. It wasn't the Russians who forced Sharia on them; if anything, they were given actual autonomy, and the Chechens chose their own path. Sure, the Russians crushed the separatism, but they also granted them autonomy and stepped back from the region. Back in '89, Chechens made up maybe 60-70% of the population, but today they’re over 90% and live in an ethnically homogenous area.

Ukrainians will get that same choice eventually.

Choice to do what? Which camp are they picking? Siberia or somewhere just as close.
Mark Clark6 Mark Clark6 Member
20 messages
joined Jan 2017
#336 ·
Given that Russia is a nuclear power with a psychopath holding the detonator, I honestly can't decide which outcome warrants more dread: a defeat for Putin or a victory in Ukraine. Just imagine the fallout if that madman actually loses in Ukraine... the idiot is going to ruin his own people regardless of the result.
Douglas Davis4 Douglas Davis4 Member
43 messages
joined Nov 2020
#337 ·
gentleharbor3 said:Agreed. I’m hoping this war ends as soon as possible.
Nobody sane actually calls for or justifies war,
so I assume we are all unified in our condemnation of Russia.
But wars are just the final stage of an escalated conflict.
The questions we are raising here—at least some of them—revolve around how the
genesis of this conflict unfolded and which factors fueled the escalation.
Who, what, when, where, how, why... these are legitimate questions.

Theoretically, sure, but the bottom line is what the Ukrainians actually want.
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#338 ·
Betty Murphy3 said:Back at the start of our own war, the Mexicans seized far more territory from us—an entire third of our country was under occupation—and yet, nobody blinked. These are just the opening salvos of a conflict that could, unfortunately, drag on for a long time. Of course, Ukrainians will lose ground in some places and gain it in others, much like we did during our struggle. You don't win a war in a single battle. The reality is that the Russians are on foreign soil now, and they’ve made a massive miscalculation if they think they can simply swallow a nation with this kind of population.

The truth? Ukrainians don't possess the same sense of moral imperative that we had, and certainly, not every Ukrainian is as motivated as we were back in the 1990s—though there are enough who are.

That little man has convinced himself he's invincible, likely riding high on his "successes" in Syria and similar episodes. But Ukraine isn't Afghanistan or Georgia. The Russians have completely lost their minds; whatever they're doing is going to cost them dearly, no matter how you look at it. Putin has unleashed an evil that will haunt him as much as it haunts the Ukrainians. And I doubt Russian mothers will be particularly pleased when this war begins to stretch out indefinitely.

The difference is that the Ukrainians actually have a structured, armed military—whereas we were building ours from scratch while the bullets were already flying.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#339 ·
James Phillips92 said:Choice to do what? Which camp are they picking? Siberia or somewhere just as close.

With or without a connection.
Keith Morgan10 Keith Morgan10 Member
20 messages
joined Jun 2022
#340 ·
hollowwalker24 said:Sweden and Finland really ought to join NATO ASAP... If things go south elsewhere, we might end up seeing a repeat of what's happening in Ukraine right now.

It would be pretty interesting to watch how NATO reacts if Sweden or Finland were actually attacked. Honestly, if that doesn't open people's eyes, I don't know what will.

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