How to forgive myself when the guilt is overwhelming

They say humiliation acts on narcissists exactly how a lack of affection acts on the Depressive. It creates this twisted, perfect synergy between the two groups: they refuse to love us, while we find ourselves driven to belittle them; they envy our capacity for feeling, while we envy their total absence of guilt. Their interactions will only spiral further into dysfunction, yet neither group can seem to function without the other. This cycle continues until it inevitably hits a breaking point—either the narcissists flee because the degradation becomes too much to bear, or the Depressives bolt because they simply can't shoulder the weight of the guilt anymore.

Narcissists have turned guilt-tripping into a fine art, much like how Depressives act as absolute masters of self-abasement. Eventually, anyone watching from the sidelines won't even be able to tell the two groups apart; the narcissists will start mimicking the depressives, while the depressives begin to mirror the narcissists. A psychiatrist would probably try to untangle this mess with a laundry list of overlapping diagnoses—labeling a narcissist with comorbid Borderline or Bipolar traits, or calling a depressive someone who possesses the classic hallmarks of a narcissist. It just creates a massive, confusing blur.

Wouldn't it be much simpler to just label narcissists as "incapable of feeling guilt"? That would clear up the confusion immediately. As for the Depressive, we could probably call them "prone to belittling others." You see, a Depressive tends to put people down when they feel unloved, creating a cycle of guilt they desperately need to overcome; meanwhile, a narcissist withholds affection entirely, forcing others into a state of humiliation just so they can actually feel something. In the heat of the moment, the narcissist will whine about being victimized and look exactly like a Depressive, while the Depressive, through their constant belittling, will come across as nothing more than a narcissist.

This whole issue strikes at the core of my own struggles, and honestly, watching this interaction unfold is fascinating. I’m fully aware that in the real world, these kinds of "clashes" aren't clearly defined, which inevitably leads to a handful of people feeling insulted and digging their heels in. You'll have narcissists weaponizing their diagnoses because they can't wrap their heads around the concept of guilt—blaming the Depressives for being humiliated—while on the flip side, you'll have Depressives recoil when their own diagnosis labels them as violent, simply because they feel pressured by the narcissists.

A depressive, melancholic, somber, and sensitive soul: how could anyone ever look at them and imagine they possess a violent bone in their body? Conversely, a narcissist—someone brimming with confidence, brilliant, polished, always smiling and full of life—how could an outsider glance at them and ever suspect they are actually devoid of empathy?

Exactly. I’m a total aggressor! A Depressive soul—calm, sensitive, quiet, reserved, hardworking, respectful, and honest—but honestly? Don't you dare push my buttons. Because once you cross that line, you'd better run for the hills. It feels like that's the vibe here on this forum too: "If you leave me alone, I'll be your best friend; if you provoke me, I have more than enough ways to absolutely crush you." That is exactly how I operate in my private life as well. But narcissists just can't help themselves; they constantly poke at others because they're desperately searching for emotions they lack in themselves, even if those emotions are negative. And we fall for their little games every single time, losing our heads the moment they offer us any scrap of attention. In the end, both sides just end up creating their own misery.

In the end, those of us who struggle with being Depressive get absolutely devoured by the guilt of our own actions—specifically the way we hurt others. Rationally, you know deep down that you were just reacting to provocations, simply providing the exact emotional outburst they were fishing for in the first place. But the subconscious side of the brain doesn't give a damn about logic; it just hollows you out from the inside. It forces you to confront how much it would kill you if someone treated you the same way. You start spiraling into these endless, agonizing questions: How could I be so reckless with someone else's feelings? How could I just steamroll over them like that? Am I actually a monster? Why can't I just control my impulses? Is the flaw fundamentally within me? Am I nothing more than a cold, unfeeling narcissist? And now, how is that person supposed to move forward with the wounds I left behind? Are they the ones paying the price now? What is wrong with me? These are just a few of the relentless, gnawing doubts that keep us staring at the ceiling at three in the morning.

Then comes the depressive spiral. It’s followed by this relentless, burning anger directed at myself—this desperate urge to just stop weeping over my own failures and the wreckage I've left in other people's lives. This perpetual internal warfare is absolutely devouring me from the inside out. It isn't even just about what happened a few days ago or a few weeks back; it's the weight of everything I did ten years ago crashing down on me all over again. So, I just shut down. I withdraw completely because I can't bear the thought of having any contact with anyone, fearing I might hurt them—and more importantly, fearing I'll only end up hurting myself further by fueling this endless internal conflict.

“To err is human, to persist is diabolical.” It seems I’m either the devil himself or there’s some kind of demon living inside me, because I simply cannot shake this twisted way of communicating. Honestly, it wouldn't even bother me so much if I didn't end up carrying this crushing weight of guilt. It's soul-lacerating. Even after a meticulous deep dive into my family dynamics—identifying and feeling every single trigger from my past—the core issues remain stubbornly unchanged. I say "the core," because while there are significant shifts happening, they aren't quite enough to overhaul my current communication style. Some might argue that this requires time and grueling, relentless work. Of course it does, and I'm not throwing in the towel, but I find it much easier to process when I can hear more real-world examples and concrete cases. Everything helps, which is exactly why I started this thread!
The question is straightforward: how do I forgive myself? Or perhaps, how do I achieve emotional detachment from past events?
I find it far easier to forgive others than to forgive myself. In fact, forgiving others isn't even a question for me—it's incredibly easy and simple—though maybe that shouldn't be the case? I think it should! Yet, forgiving myself feels fundamentally impossible. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, I don't believe forgiveness is actually the solution to the problem. That is, it isn't the tool we use to reach a goal; rather, it’s the final result (the cherry on top). I'll try to clarify this so it doesn't sound contradictory, because it really isn't.

A narcissist unconsciously goads you into feeling something. I get angry, so I subconsciously belittle them. They get my anger, and I get their attention. Then, I am hit with intense guilt, while they walk away with a sense of bruised pride. They force guilt upon us, and we stomp on their ego: could that be it? Ideally, both parties would be self-aware enough to own their behavior and offer an apology. But in reality, that almost never happens. While we are ready to apologize—which often follows—the other side refuses to acknowledge it. We are ready because we feel deeply and empathize; we know exactly how it would feel if someone "stepped on" us. Meanwhile, anyone watching from the sidelines sees the narcissist as the balanced one and me as the aggressor. Naturally, everyone expects an apology from me, not them. Since I am aware of my own aggression, apologizing isn't hard, but apologizing to *myself* is the real struggle because I always fall for their games. Perhaps I’m secretly waiting for their apology just so it becomes easier for my own guilt to vanish. It’s as if I want them to fix my problem and ease my soul. As if I want to be respected. As if I've been cheated out of something. Yes, I feel cheated. Because they got exactly what they wanted—the emotions they craved and the apology to soothe their pride—while I only got attention, and no apology in return. Consequently, it is simply impossible to forgive myself until we settle the score. Either we learn to stop apologizing so we feel less guilty toward ourselves, or we learn how to stop falling for their tactics. The latter is clearly the better path. But how? How do you beat people who are geniuses at it, practicing 24/7 to provoke Depressives because they are constantly starving for emotion—whether they are in a crowd or alone? They don't care about social connection; they only care about knowing they can extract an emotional reaction through provocation. Otherwise, they choose solitude, continuing their training on how to manipulate others. You can never catch up to them.🙂 That’s why I believe true forgiveness is only possible at the end, once everything is clear and conscious; otherwise, forgiving oneself would suffice, but only once clarity is achieved. Maybe we should be learning how to dodge provocateurs and refuse to be baited? But how? When they are lurking around every corner? Even the socio-economic structure of our society seems designed to favor this; narcissists are the perfect managers, and that's exactly who we elect to lead us. You can't run away, even if you wanted to! Or are those just my excuses? Is there a way?

So, settle the debt and then forgive. Yes, but how do I reclaim what was taken from me so that I can finally "toast" to self-forgiveness? How do I give myself back something that someone else stole? Logically, that sounds impossible—unless my logic is flawed and I'm missing something obvious?

Wouldn't life be significantly less exhausting if we could spot a narcissist from a mile away? They have this uncanny, almost professional ability to mask their true nature—they spend their entire lives training to stay under the radar. You see it everywhere, even with those corporate suck-ups climbing the ladder at companies like Goldman Sachs. Once you finally see them for who they really are, things become clearer, but the damage is often done. Ideally, you just cut ties and walk away. But in the interim, they’ve already stripped you of so much, or worse, they've managed to entangle you in their web. If it isn't through external circumstances, it's through the mental loops you can't stop running, or ultimately, that crushing sense of self-blame. And what happens when walking away isn't an option? Like when it's a boss you can't quit, a spouse (especially when kids are involved), or a parent...

So, perhaps the only "solution" is to descend to their level by embracing envy, though the dream would be for them to actually emulate us—to crave the depth of feeling we possess. But dreams don't pay the bills; we live in the real world. Is finding a way to kill that lingering guilt the only actual path forward? Or am I just grasping at straws?

My apologies for the long-windedness here; I honestly wasn't sure how to condense this without stripping away the nuance. Please don't take this as me "laying down the law" or acting like some absolute authority on truth. This is simply my perspective, my observation, and my personal struggle with these concepts.

To wrap this up, the core issues are: the sense of being cheated out of what was rightfully yours, the cycle of retribution, the weight of guilt, and the necessity of forgiveness. If anyone here has navigated these waters or truly understands the visceral sting of these questions, I am genuinely asking for your insight.

Thanks in advance!

PS: I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow that Depressive individuals are often deeply angry people (and vice versa), just as it's hard to accept that they can sometimes be quite abusive. In that regard, I find myself agreeing with Hillman's assessment. It took me a while to get there, but I've realized I'm essentially living in a global society populated by terrorists and rebels. 😉

What kind of violence are we even talking about here? Maybe some reckless driving because someone’s feeling a bit Depressive, but classic, straight-up violence?

Carl Rivera43 said:What kind of violence are we even talking about here? Maybe some reckless driving because someone’s feeling a bit Depressive, but classic, straight-up violence?

As I mentioned earlier, I realize that specific section is a bit "tricky."
While there is certainly self-inflicted violence involved, he explains it in this particular way, and frankly, it doesn't strike me as entirely illogical.

[…]
Not everyone is depressed. In fact, some people are just incredibly fierce! And that fierceness is their own personal Erupt […]
One psychiatric theory suggests that "depression is anger in disguise." They argue that depression manifests as rage and fury, acting as a mask—essentially a negation of the underlying depression. Angry people are actually Depressive; Depressive people are angry.
[…]

He then reinforces this with a metaphor, referencing the G7 in Geneva and the so-called terrorism of rebels:

[…]
Of course, the mainstream media branded them terrorists, but it makes me wonder: who would label intoxicated raccoons or polluted rivers as extremists?
[…]

Hillman (my own translation)

I interpreted this last part like this:

1. Someone treats you unjustly;
2. We get angry;
3. But we are powerless;
4. So we sink into depression;
5. Yet the anger over that injustice remains bottled up, just waiting for the right moment to Erupt.

It Erupts when we encounter that injustice again; if we happen to be in a position of power, we strike back. This way, we vent both what they actually deserved and everything we’ve been suppressing since we were helpless.

Then the guilt sets in, perhaps because our defense was far too aggressive? I'm not entirely sure.

Violence can absolutely be physical, verbal, passive, or intellectual (which resonates most with me)—anything that crushes the human soul, mind, or body.

…First, someone does you wrong;
Then, we get angry;
We feel sick to our stomachs;
We fall into a deep depression;
But that anger from the injustice? It just sits there, building up, just waiting for the moment to Erupt……

Hmm. I’m with you on those first four steps. But, maybe… maybe step five leads somewhere else? Maybe it turns into passivity? Or guessing games? Just swallowing it all down and sweeping it under the rug? We might even find ourselves making peace with pessimism—just leaning into that sense of total indifference.

Carl Rivera43 said:…First, someone does you wrong;
Then, we get angry;
We feel sick to our stomachs;
We fall into a deep depression;
But that anger from the injustice? It just sits there, building up, just waiting for the moment to Erupt……

Hmm. I’m with you on those first four steps. But, maybe… maybe step five leads somewhere else? Maybe it turns into passivity? Or guessing games? Just swallowing it all down and sweeping it under the rug? We might even find ourselves making peace with pessimism—just leaning into that sense of total indifference.

Perhaps you’re exercising that same injustice and violence against yourself in a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE way without even realizing it? Maybe it’s just a way to dull the pain within? To avoid feeling it entirely? Or perhaps you’re simply biding your time until the moment you finally lose your damn mind and start "shaking" everything around you?

I don't know.

Well, I’m starting to realize it now... blaming my surroundings? Honestly, I could come up with a whole list of reasons why. But that just doesn't feel right, does it? Blaming myself... yeah, that’s what I end up doing. Even though I really thought I'd outgrow it by now.

Just moments... hm, just moments... those fleeting minutes... who knows? So much of it just slips into the subconscious.

The more I dive into the mechanics of guilt, the more absurd—yet undeniably fascinating—it all feels; there is an incredible amount of untapped potential here, so I figured I’d share my findings with you all.

To avoid getting too bogged down in heavy philosophy (there is still so much left unsaid and unexplored), the core idea is actually quite simple: it functions essentially as a specialized internal ALARM. It isn't inherently tied to your past, though at first glance, that might seem counterintuitive.

1) We engage in an action in the present moment that clashes with our inner self, triggering an alarm;
2) A sense of guilt emerges;
3) Memories from the past begin to surface.

What used to confuse many people, myself included, was how we react when those thoughts appear: we either obsessively fixate on them or try to violently suppress them.

The solution to managing these feelings of guilt would be this:
1. Ask ourselves: what am I actually doing right this second—here and now—that caused this guilt to trigger?
2. Change the behavior, the setting, the music, the method, the company... and those thoughts will vanish right along with the memories of the past.

Essentially, it means we are either doing something, thinking about something, being somewhere, or hanging out with certain people in a way that doesn't align with our true nature, prompting our soul to demand an immediate change.

Those intrusive thoughts linked to the feeling are merely triggers on the surface; they are just secondary symptoms. They feel intense because the guilt itself is intense, much like how deep-seated traumas feel intense. Someone without significant past trauma will still experience guilt and accompanying thoughts, but it won't be nearly as agonizing, and they often just suppress it without a second thought. The deeper the wound from the past, the more it hurts, and consequently, the stronger the guilt becomes. That is where the real opportunity lies!

Because this "alarm" is so loud, it actually makes it easier to pinpoint the negative behaviors that don't serve us. The louder the signal, the better we can understand ourselves and identify what truly contradicts our character.

Now, I can't say for sure whether this is the absolute truth, or if it's just a psychological diversion—a sort of redirection tactic—or perhaps just one component of a larger healing process (the various therapeutic techniques I've mentioned before: EMDR, radiation therapy, meditation, psychoanalysis, sports, or anti-compulsive calming) designed to dull the pain and let wounds heal. I simply don't know.

I don't know how much of this is objective reality. I can only say that after applying this specific way of handling guilt for a few days, I feel like a completely different person.

I’ve come to realize that narcissism and being Depressive are really just two sides of the same coin... Narcissists are obsessed with themselves in a positive way, while Depressives are stuck in that loop of negative self-obsession. At the end of the day, they both just think about themselves way too much. It’s a tragic pattern because they tend to gravitate toward each other—one side is desperate for confidence and ego, while the other is starving for humility and actual empathy from others... mostly because narcissists or psychopaths have
a pretty narrow emotional range compared to most people.
There’s usually this dark, masochistic thread tying them together...
A Depressive craves the struggle, whereas a narcissist lives to inflict it on everyone else... Honestly, the best thing would be for those couples to never have kids, because a narcissist will treat their pets one way and then turn around and tear an sensitive child apart. But unfortunately, life happens, and those kids end up inheriting all the "fruits" of that toxic love—usually just pure self-destruction, rage, and total chaos. If there's any silver lining, it's that their offspring often grow up more perceptive because they had to survive so much... Bottom line, if you're a sensitive kid with a narcissistic parent, you're in for a rough ride... though there's always hope if you fight back..

Reading your posts feels a bit like looking in a mirror from years ago—which isn't exactly helping. I probably shouldn't read too much more, otherwise I might slip right back into that "angry mode" that’s always so easy to fall into. As for "getting back what others took from you"—forget about it. And "chasing justice"? Why bother wasting the energy?

On another note, I wanted to share something about forgiveness. I stumbled upon this—it was probably on Pinterest or some similar site (I know, I can be pretty superficial sometimes, but that doesn't really matter now)—and it felt almost like a prayer. It wasn't entirely insignificant; it actually gave me pause. Honestly, it's been a struggle for me to let certain things go for a long time.
Stupid as it might seem, it goes like this:

It isn't really a pairing of a narcissist and a Depressive; rather, it's a collision between a narcissist and an empath—and those empaths often find themselves sliding into codependency.

An empath struggling with codependency isn't automatically destined to be a Depressive by nature.

Thanks for the advice, Cure!
Every single contribution matters deeply to me during this pivotal moment in history.

Maria Price3 said:Reading your posts feels a bit like looking in a mirror from years ago—which isn't exactly helping. I probably shouldn't read too much more, otherwise I might slip right back into that "angry mode" that’s always so easy to fall into. As for "getting back what others took from you"—forget about it. And "chasing justice"? Why bother wasting the energy?

On another note, I wanted to share something about forgiveness. I stumbled upon this—it was probably on Pinterest or some similar site (I know, I can be pretty superficial sometimes, but that doesn't really matter now)—and it felt almost like a prayer. It wasn't entirely insignificant; it actually gave me pause. Honestly, it's been a struggle for me to let certain things go for a long time.
Stupid as it might seem, it goes like this:

Buddhist Prayer of Forgiveness if

If I have harmed anyone in any way either knowingly or unknowingly
through my own confusions I ask their forgiveness.

If anyone has harmed me in any way either knowingly or unknowingly
through their own confusions I forgive them.

And if there is a situation I am not yet ready to forgive
I forgive myself for that.

for All The ways that i harm myself, negate, doubt, belittle myself,
judge or be unkind to myself through my own confusions
I forgive myself.

If slipping back into "anger mode" is actually easy, doesn't that just mean the question you asked hasn't been answered at all? It’s like the answer was just pushed onto a waiting list—waiting for the right timing, the right skill, or even just the chance to finally settle it once and for all. If we're talking about settling things forever... look at guys like Joseph, Adolf, Benito, Mao, Paul, Idi, Judas, or Vlad the Impaler. No matter how much they differ, aren't they all basically no different from any other "next big villain" in history?...

What kind of system actually raises kids these days? Are we talking about living out of pure necessity, or just surviving a cycle that’s fundamentally broken, painful, and anxious? Even if you bury it deep under some heavy-duty self-defense mechanism, it's still there... Just existing like this. "Forgive me, God—if you even exist—because I'm essentially my own god now, deciding whether to forgive or not, but honestly, it feels like I just can't figure out how, what, or why I keep doing what I do..."

Kids who vape just to find some semblance of peace—never actually finding it—are basically high-speed machines for molding themselves into these weirdly specific caricatures. Depending on how much their inner demons of angst and frustration are acting up, they can turn into anything from petty little nuisances and self-absorbed jerks to full-blown ego-tripping sociopaths... or even top-tier, hardcore misanthropes. Those guys are actually impressive in a dark way; they dedicate their entire lives to devaluing the whole concept of human life and mortality. They make existing, or just playing around with existence, feel more vibrant or interesting. To them, true peace—that absolute Zen state—is just nothingness. It's a flatline on a heart monitor. If you aren't oscillating, vibrating, or resonating, you aren't really moving... so you exist. I guess. Maybe...

They’re just playing their parts. It’s all happening behind closed doors, totally invisible to anyone watching... acting like cold-blooded, brutal sadists. They’re basically guarding their own private Panopticon where they’re the prisoner, the warden, and the judge all at once. No mercy allowed from the God Pan. Forgive yourself? Forgive yourself for what? For being exactly who you are—or whatever else is driving those dark, hidden gears of the universe that feel so damn predetermined... right?

Forgiving your own sins? That’s a tall order. But trying to forgive someone else—anybody else, really—is even harder. It's always some other person, someone who isn't nearly as important as I am, and they just don't get it. They have no clue what they're doing, just like I don't. Yet, they still managed to pull some unforgivable, absolute bullshit on me... It takes constant effort, a massive drain on your energy, just to build and maintain this thick shell of frustration. Maybe it's easier that way, though. Less effort, less energy spent trying to hack through the thorns of life... especially if you're a vampire by nature, just built that way. You just keep pushing toward that one final goal: peace... death...

It’s packed with innocent kids, constantly interacting, providing each other this social platform where they feed into the same vicious cycle of nasty little habits... just hunting for some kind of soulmate to connect with on an intimate level. But through that whole predetermined loop, they end up knowing themselves less and less as time goes by. Not that it matters. In the end, regardless of anything—all is forgiven. And forgotten.

A person dies three times in their life. First, when innocence dies. Second, when naivety dies. Third, when the hollowed-out husk remains, aimlessly wandering while the world moves on around them. You’re born just as many times. Once when you emerge from nothingness as the pure essence of life, again after innocence is gone, and a third time once naivety has died. With every death and rebirth, you drift further from that thin line separating existence from nothingness, getting closer to the edge where everything fades back into the void. Maybe you get a little wiser along the way. Wiser about letting go. About forgiveness. Just criticism, just judgment, just being alive, just importance...

Maybe it's because they see how fleeting everything is, riding that lifelong illusion of self-preservation. Or maybe it's because dementia—or just the general psychophysical slide down the Gaussian curve—forces them back into that long-forgotten state of carefree, childish innocence. That margin between the light and the void might just be a single point, a revolving door of entry and exit, after one long, lucid dream fueled by a lifetime of war stories...

Frustration—and everything that drags behind it—is probably a massive overstatement. Just let go, man. Let go of the shadow self. Let go of everyone else, even if you're handing them a poisoned gift like a bunch of malicious kids playing games and creating their own reality...

Oh—my shadow—how I loved you.

ironrider11 said:If slipping back into "anger mode" is actually easy, doesn't that just mean the question you asked hasn't been answered at all? It’s like the answer was just pushed onto a waiting list—waiting for the right timing, the right skill, or even just the chance to finally settle it once and for all. If we're talking about settling things forever... look at guys like Joseph, Adolf, Benito, Mao, Paul, Idi, Judas, or Vlad the Impaler. No matter how much they differ, aren't they all basically no different from any other "next big villain" in history?...

What kind of system actually raises kids these days? Are we talking about living out of pure necessity, or just surviving a cycle that’s fundamentally broken, painful, and anxious? Even if you bury it deep under some heavy-duty self-defense mechanism, it's still there... Just existing like this. "Forgive me, God—if you even exist—because I'm essentially my own god now, deciding whether to forgive or not, but honestly, it feels like I just can't figure out how, what, or why I keep doing what I do..."

Kids who vape just to find some semblance of peace—never actually finding it—are basically high-speed machines for molding themselves into these weirdly specific caricatures. Depending on how much their inner demons of angst and frustration are acting up, they can turn into anything from petty little nuisances and self-absorbed jerks to full-blown ego-tripping sociopaths... or even top-tier, hardcore misanthropes. Those guys are actually impressive in a dark way; they dedicate their entire lives to devaluing the whole concept of human life and mortality. They make existing, or just playing around with existence, feel more vibrant or interesting. To them, true peace—that absolute Zen state—is just nothingness. It's a flatline on a heart monitor. If you aren't oscillating, vibrating, or resonating, you aren't really moving... so you exist. I guess. Maybe...

They’re just playing their parts. It’s all happening behind closed doors, totally invisible to anyone watching... acting like cold-blooded, brutal sadists. They’re basically guarding their own private Panopticon where they’re the prisoner, the warden, and the judge all at once. No mercy allowed from the God Pan. Forgive yourself? Forgive yourself for what? For being exactly who you are—or whatever else is driving those dark, hidden gears of the universe that feel so damn predetermined... right?

Forgiving your own sins? That’s a tall order. But trying to forgive someone else—anybody else, really—is even harder. It's always some other person, someone who isn't nearly as important as I am, and they just don't get it. They have no clue what they're doing, just like I don't. Yet, they still managed to pull some unforgivable, absolute bullshit on me... It takes constant effort, a massive drain on your energy, just to build and maintain this thick shell of frustration. Maybe it's easier that way, though. Less effort, less energy spent trying to hack through the thorns of life... especially if you're a vampire by nature, just built that way. You just keep pushing toward that one final goal: peace... death...

It’s packed with innocent kids, constantly interacting, providing each other this social platform where they feed into the same vicious cycle of nasty little habits... just hunting for some kind of soulmate to connect with on an intimate level. But through that whole predetermined loop, they end up knowing themselves less and less as time goes by. Not that it matters. In the end, regardless of anything—all is forgiven. And forgotten.

A person dies three times in their life. First, when innocence dies. Second, when naivety dies. Third, when the hollowed-out husk remains, aimlessly wandering while the world moves on around them. You’re born just as many times. Once when you emerge from nothingness as the pure essence of life, again after innocence is gone, and a third time once naivety has died. With every death and rebirth, you drift further from that thin line separating existence from nothingness, getting closer to the edge where everything fades back into the void. Maybe you get a little wiser along the way. Wiser about letting go. About forgiveness. Just criticism, just judgment, just being alive, just importance...

Maybe it's because they see how fleeting everything is, riding that lifelong illusion of self-preservation. Or maybe it's because dementia—or just the general psychophysical slide down the Gaussian curve—forces them back into that long-forgotten state of carefree, childish innocence. That margin between the light and the void might just be a single point, a revolving door of entry and exit, after one long, lucid dream fueled by a lifetime of war stories...

Frustration—and everything that drags behind it—is probably a massive overstatement. Just let go, man. Let go of the shadow self. Let go of everyone else, even if you're handing them a poisoned gift like a bunch of malicious kids playing games and creating their own reality...

Oh—my shadow—how I loved you.

So, what’s the bottom line here? Is frustration like a skateboard—something you can actually have fun riding through life—or should we just chill out, go into total autopilot mode, lie in the deep shade of existence, and stop getting emotionally invested because none of it matters anyway?
Though, honestly, both options sound pretty good. 🙂
But that doesn't really answer the original question. The real question is how do we let go, or how do we turn frustration into that skateboard—something we can ride fast and unthinking down the roads of life? It’s poetic, really.

When you're feeling low, it’s pretty much impossible to maintain any kind of big-picture perspective. Honestly, frustration and anger can actually be useful—provided you know how to channel them properly, I guess. I tend to favor practice over theory; ever since I stopped taking everything so personally, life has felt a little less heavy, maybe even a bit easier. But that tiny, subconscious urge to just say "screw you" tucked away in some corner of my brain? That's always going to be there. It’s just how I was wired—based on those vague childhood memories I can't quite recall and the fact that I simply didn't have the luxury of being angry at the entire world back then. We aren't all wired the same way, after all. How would you go about tackling the whole issue of guilt?

@briskpuma6, don't get worked up 🙂
Not at yourself or anyone else—it’s just not healthy.

Another thing about psychopaths—the second you stop letting their little games or comments get under your skin, they just bail and go hunting for a new target... If you try to drag them into your web or play devil's advocate, you're basically toast, because in their world, they’re never wrong and nothing is ever their fault. They really just need someone who’ll always play along and dance to their tune...

@ ironrider11
I agree; letting go is absolutely necessary.

@ Maria Price3
I understand, and I’m actively working on shedding this anger. I think I'm finally making progress—at least, I'd like to believe I am.

@ Chris Grant3
Precisely. But the real question is, HOW?

@ silvereagle7
I'm with you on this: the more indifference we project, the less interesting we become to them, and they'll eventually leave us alone.
It’s always the same dilemma: you have to grit your teeth and act indifferent, which is vital, but how do you actually achieve true apathy without it being an agonizing struggle?

briskpuma6 said:@ ironrider11
I agree; letting go is absolutely necessary.

@ Maria Price3
I understand, and I’m actively working on shedding this anger. I think I'm finally making progress—at least, I'd like to believe I am.

@ Chris Grant3
Precisely. But the real question is, HOW?

@ silvereagle7
I'm with you on this: the more indifference we project, the less interesting we become to them, and they'll eventually leave us alone.
It’s always the same dilemma: you have to grit your teeth and act indifferent, which is vital, but how do you actually achieve true apathy without it being an agonizing struggle?

Like Maria Price3 was saying, you have to let go... easier said than done, really, because if you don't heal those deep scars, you just keep running into people who trigger them all over again. You see it all the time with kids from abusive homes ending up with partners who are just as bad, maybe even worse than their parents... and it goes on forever... then you have people who had such a rough start that they end up in toxic jobs where they feel like they deserve the struggle, just projecting everything onto their lives... they haven't actually let anything go, so they're just spinning in circles...

Someone once told me something beautiful, about how we all have a certain purpose in this world, for others and because we're all connected in some way, so even if we aren't literally one, we should be out there spreading light for each other...

Like, if you've been through hell, you won't even need words to know when someone else is drowning, and you'll reach out because nobody reached out to you when you were down, and that's how you pass the light along...

Anyway, letting go of the stuff that truly hurts is the hardest part, and honestly, I haven't fully mastered it yet, but I think the idea makes sense...

silvereagle7 said:Like Maria Price3 was saying, you have to let go... easier said than done, really, because if you don't heal those deep scars, you just keep running into people who trigger them all over again. You see it all the time with kids from abusive homes ending up with partners who are just as bad, maybe even worse than their parents... and it goes on forever... then you have people who had such a rough start that they end up in toxic jobs where they feel like they deserve the struggle, just projecting everything onto their lives... they haven't actually let anything go, so they're just spinning in circles...

Someone once told me something beautiful, about how we all have a certain purpose in this world, for others and because we're all connected in some way, so even if we aren't literally one, we should be out there spreading light for each other...

Like, if you've been through hell, you won't even need words to know when someone else is drowning, and you'll reach out because nobody reached out to you when you were down, and that's how you pass the light along...

Anyway, letting go of the stuff that truly hurts is the hardest part, and honestly, I haven't fully mastered it yet, but I think the idea makes sense...

I am in complete agreement that letting go is necessary, though I haven't quite figured out the "how" yet. Simply trying to forget doesn't seem to solve anything, because without real change, I’d probably just react the exact same way when faced with similar situations down the road.

silvereagle7 said:Like Maria Price3 was saying, you have to let go... easier said than done, really, because if you don't heal those deep scars, you just keep running into people who trigger them all over again. You see it all the time with kids from abusive homes ending up with partners who are just as bad, maybe even worse than their parents... and it goes on forever... then you have people who had such a rough start that they end up in toxic jobs where they feel like they deserve the struggle, just projecting everything onto their lives... they haven't actually let anything go, so they're just spinning in circles...

Someone once told me something beautiful, about how we all have a certain purpose in this world, for others and because we're all connected in some way, so even if we aren't literally one, we should be out there spreading light for each other...

Like, if you've been through hell, you won't even need words to know when someone else is drowning, and you'll reach out because nobody reached out to you when you were down, and that's how you pass the light along...

Anyway, letting go of the stuff that truly hurts is the hardest part, and honestly, I haven't fully mastered it yet, but I think the idea makes sense...

You know how narcissists can cry so convincingly? It’s enough to make your heart break for them.

briskpuma6 said:I am in complete agreement that letting go is necessary, though I haven't quite figured out the "how" yet. Simply trying to forget doesn't seem to solve anything, because without real change, I’d probably just react the exact same way when faced with similar situations down the road.

You know how narcissists can cry so convincingly? It’s enough to make your heart break for them.

It’s all about just taking the hits over and over until your skin finally toughens up... When I was working on a factory line, my hands were constantly bleeding at first because my skin is so sensitive, but after grinding through a few hundred units and getting those boxes packed, things changed... you just have to push through the pain until you're calloused enough to handle it...

I know I can fake just about anything, but crying? Yeah, I doubt it... honestly, I used to think people felt that way right in the moment, but then after a few minutes they can't even remember why they were upset in the first place... anyway, let's not dwell on them, we really need to just let things go, right...

I haven't quite let go of them yet, so I'm really not sure... maybe someone who actually pulled it off can weigh in...

silvereagle7 said:It’s all about just taking the hits over and over until your skin finally toughens up... When I was working on a factory line, my hands were constantly bleeding at first because my skin is so sensitive, but after grinding through a few hundred units and getting those boxes packed, things changed... you just have to push through the pain until you're calloused enough to handle it...

I know I can fake just about anything, but crying? Yeah, I doubt it... honestly, I used to think people felt that way right in the moment, but then after a few minutes they can't even remember why they were upset in the first place... anyway, let's not dwell on them, we really need to just let things go, right...

I haven't quite let go of them yet, so I'm really not sure... maybe someone who actually pulled it off can weigh in...

It sounds perfectly logical to me—highly effective, even if it isn't always the most efficient way to handle things.

silvereagle7 said:It’s all about just taking the hits over and over until your skin finally toughens up... When I was working on a factory line, my hands were constantly bleeding at first because my skin is so sensitive, but after grinding through a few hundred units and getting those boxes packed, things changed... you just have to push through the pain until you're calloused enough to handle it...

I know I can fake just about anything, but crying? Yeah, I doubt it... honestly, I used to think people felt that way right in the moment, but then after a few minutes they can't even remember why they were upset in the first place... anyway, let's not dwell on them, we really need to just let things go, right...

I haven't quite let go of them yet, so I'm really not sure... maybe someone who actually pulled it off can weigh in...

Don't doubt it; prepare for it instead. Honestly, I can shed tears whenever the mood strikes. It's typical for those covert narcissists—they're essentially just wolves dressed up as lambs.

silvereagle7 said:It’s all about just taking the hits over and over until your skin finally toughens up... When I was working on a factory line, my hands were constantly bleeding at first because my skin is so sensitive, but after grinding through a few hundred units and getting those boxes packed, things changed... you just have to push through the pain until you're calloused enough to handle it...

I know I can fake just about anything, but crying? Yeah, I doubt it... honestly, I used to think people felt that way right in the moment, but then after a few minutes they can't even remember why they were upset in the first place... anyway, let's not dwell on them, we really need to just let things go, right...

I haven't quite let go of them yet, so I'm really not sure... maybe someone who actually pulled it off can weigh in...

Exactly!

silvereagle7 said:It’s all about just taking the hits over and over until your skin finally toughens up... When I was working on a factory line, my hands were constantly bleeding at first because my skin is so sensitive, but after grinding through a few hundred units and getting those boxes packed, things changed... you just have to push through the pain until you're calloused enough to handle it...

I know I can fake just about anything, but crying? Yeah, I doubt it... honestly, I used to think people felt that way right in the moment, but then after a few minutes they can't even remember why they were upset in the first place... anyway, let's not dwell on them, we really need to just let things go, right...

I haven't quite let go of them yet, so I'm really not sure... maybe someone who actually pulled it off can weigh in...

I'd love to hear from someone on the outside, too. How did you manage it? How long did it take? What kind of hell did you have to walk through?

But look, people tend to be pretty private about this stuff, and frankly, I get it. Once you've finally made it out, you lose all interest in revisiting the drama because, let's face it, you can already smell the toxicity from a mile away. Just the thought of it is exhausting!

Most people are just desperate to finally live their lives and find something to smile about again. That's exactly what we're aiming for.