Christian vs. Eastern Meditation: Similarities and Differences!

Steven Stewart3 said:Actually, I don't know if I totally agree with that, because you could pretty much say the same thing about a ton of different yoga styles! Like, think about Nada yoga, Nidra yoga, Shiva yoga, and all that. If we stick to that super "rigid" logic (no pressure, obviously!), then there are basically only a handful of yogas mentioned in the Vedic texts. But honestly, this newer way of categorizing things makes it way easier to grasp what’s actually going on. For instance, Kundalini yoga is kind of similar to Raja yoga, but when people talk about Kundalini yoga, they’re mostly focusing on that specific process of moving the Kundalini upward. With Raja yoga, you’re looking at the whole package—the Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, and everything else. In the world of Kundalini yoga, it’s usually assumed that those other aspects are already checked off and good to go!

Kundalini yoga doesn't exist as its own distinct traditional school. At its core, any Hatha yoga—which is a Tantric derivative—is implicitly Kundalini yoga.

So, the label itself is pretty much meaningless, aside from being a marketing tactic.

Yoga Nidra is a modern invention based on Western relaxation techniques. That’s basically what most people are doing under that name. It emerged relatively recently from Kripalu Yoga (Kripalu Yoga), which is where someone like the widely known Swami Sivananda (who studied there and built his specific style of yoga, even though his own guru didn't focus on it at all) picked it up. While there is some dream work (milam) found in Tibetan yoga—specifically within Dzogchen traditions—it's much less common in Hindu traditions. The methods being practiced today under that name don't really have any connection to anything authentically Indian.

Raja (written as Raja in standard Sanskrit transliteration; reading it as "Raya" is incorrect) yoga is just a relatively recent (late colonial era) term for classical Patanjali yoga, often blended with later Tantric-Hatha traditions. This was largely the result of neo-Hindu attempts to codify and unify a bunch of disconnected Hindu traditions into one loosely coherent system during the era of "national awakening."

Either way, the yoga practiced under the name Kundalini yoga isn't anything special; it's no more "Kundalini" than any other style. It's pure marketing.

bluemason3 said:Kundalini yoga doesn't exist as its own distinct traditional school. At its core, any Hatha yoga—which is a Tantric derivative—is implicitly Kundalini yoga.

So, the label itself is pretty much meaningless, aside from being a marketing tactic.

Yoga Nidra is a modern invention based on Western relaxation techniques. That’s basically what most people are doing under that name. It emerged relatively recently from Kripalu Yoga (Kripalu Yoga), which is where someone like the widely known Swami Sivananda (who studied there and built his specific style of yoga, even though his own guru didn't focus on it at all) picked it up. While there is some dream work (milam) found in Tibetan yoga—specifically within Dzogchen traditions—it's much less common in Hindu traditions. The methods being practiced today under that name don't really have any connection to anything authentically Indian.

Raja (written as Raja in standard Sanskrit transliteration; reading it as "Raya" is incorrect) yoga is just a relatively recent (late colonial era) term for classical Patanjali yoga, often blended with later Tantric-Hatha traditions. This was largely the result of neo-Hindu attempts to codify and unify a bunch of disconnected Hindu traditions into one loosely coherent system during the era of "national awakening."

Either way, the yoga practiced under the name Kundalini yoga isn't anything special; it's no more "Kundalini" than any other style. It's pure marketing.

Okay, I hear you. If you caught my drift, I actually agree—repackaging these ancient divisions feels a bit like selling out yoga, but hey, it does provide a way to categorize different paths for people to understand them. Take Nada yoga, for example—using sound to reach a goal. Check out this link and tell me how you'd classify that using the old-school divisions? There isn't a specific name for it in the old texts, but today we call it Nada yoga, and I think that's perfectly fine.
I mean, maybe we'll see a "color science" yoga pop up next! I actually saw a segment on a show about using color for healing purposes the other day.

Steven Stewart3 said:Actually, I don't know if I totally agree with that, because you could pretty much say the same thing about a ton of different yoga styles! Like, think about Nada yoga, Nidra yoga, Shiva yoga, and all that. If we stick to that super "rigid" logic (no pressure, obviously!), then there are basically only a handful of yogas mentioned in the Vedic texts. But honestly, this newer way of categorizing things makes it way easier to grasp what’s actually going on. For instance, Kundalini yoga is kind of similar to Raja yoga, but when people talk about Kundalini yoga, they’re mostly focusing on that specific process of moving the Kundalini upward. With Raja yoga, you’re looking at the whole package—the Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, and everything else. In the world of Kundalini yoga, it’s usually assumed that those other aspects are already checked off and good to go!

Sure, it’s a bit muddled and unclear like this. You could list another hundred types of yoga if you wanted to, but an experienced devotee can see there are really just two fundamental paths or currents. I’ll just mention them now—and I might elaborate more later if I feel like it and decide it’s actually worth the effort, since this topic is the starting point for my Magnum Opus. They are:

Let’s call it Willful Yoga (which works with Prana and Kundalini): it stems from the idea that mental content is cluttered by sensory impressions. To control the mind, you have to control the senses, and vice versa. The foundation is sublimation (not suppression) of sexual energy (Virya) into mental energy (Ojas Shakti)—we raise the Kundalini to the Sahasrara, resulting in Nirvikalpa Samadhi. This requires breath control, dietary control, sleep control, and mastery over all other aspects of life. An adept of this path masters all levels of existence (Lokas), entering and exiting them at will...

And let’s say Sahaja yoga (so-called Natural Yoga, or the yoga of direct insight into the true nature of reality—meaning without the mediation of the senses or the mind). Much like Zen, it allows things (life) to simply happen without any willful interference. Every attempt at intervention is just an obstruction. You have no control over experiences, nor do you cling to them, just as you don't cling to anything else. This current has its own completely different dynamic, and the result is direct insight into the true nature of reality (Jnana). It is the most beautiful and miraculous path—pure bliss through non-attachment and devotion. It doesn't bargain; it doesn't demand you do "this" or "that" to get something. It is unconditional. It doesn't ask you to earn THAT, because you *are* THAT (Tat Tvam Asi)...

These are the only two ways to wake up from all the dreams.

Only by understanding these two currents can we make sense of everything else.

Everything else listed is merely a consequence of one current or the other. There is no third option.

I should note that this is just a very, very rough outline, as I am in no mood for any serious elaboration—especially not here, because that would be pointless.

Steven Stewart3 said:Actually, I don't know if I totally agree with that, because you could pretty much say the same thing about a ton of different yoga styles! Like, think about Nada yoga, Nidra yoga, Shiva yoga, and all that. If we stick to that super "rigid" logic (no pressure, obviously!), then there are basically only a handful of yogas mentioned in the Vedic texts. But honestly, this newer way of categorizing things makes it way easier to grasp what’s actually going on. For instance, Kundalini yoga is kind of similar to Raja yoga, but when people talk about Kundalini yoga, they’re mostly focusing on that specific process of moving the Kundalini upward. With Raja yoga, you’re looking at the whole package—the Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, and everything else. In the world of Kundalini yoga, it’s usually assumed that those other aspects are already checked off and good to go!

Spot on.

Steven Stewart3 said:Actually, I don't know if I totally agree with that, because you could pretty much say the same thing about a ton of different yoga styles! Like, think about Nada yoga, Nidra yoga, Shiva yoga, and all that. If we stick to that super "rigid" logic (no pressure, obviously!), then there are basically only a handful of yogas mentioned in the Vedic texts. But honestly, this newer way of categorizing things makes it way easier to grasp what’s actually going on. For instance, Kundalini yoga is kind of similar to Raja yoga, but when people talk about Kundalini yoga, they’re mostly focusing on that specific process of moving the Kundalini upward. With Raja yoga, you’re looking at the whole package—the Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, and everything else. In the world of Kundalini yoga, it’s usually assumed that those other aspects are already checked off and good to go!

Then you’ve got entire yoga systems that don't even bother citing the Vedas at all—like basically the whole Tantric tradition.

Steven Stewart3 said:Actually, I don't know if I totally agree with that, because you could pretty much say the same thing about a ton of different yoga styles! Like, think about Nada yoga, Nidra yoga, Shiva yoga, and all that. If we stick to that super "rigid" logic (no pressure, obviously!), then there are basically only a handful of yogas mentioned in the Vedic texts. But honestly, this newer way of categorizing things makes it way easier to grasp what’s actually going on. For instance, Kundalini yoga is kind of similar to Raja yoga, but when people talk about Kundalini yoga, they’re mostly focusing on that specific process of moving the Kundalini upward. With Raja yoga, you’re looking at the whole package—the Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, and everything else. In the world of Kundalini yoga, it’s usually assumed that those other aspects are already checked off and good to go!

That sounds like total New Age nonsense to me. Just a complete misunderstanding of how the whole system works. You hear this kind of talk all the time in various Kundalini and Shiva yoga classes—whether the instructors realize they're doing it or not.😁

Selling yoga fog 😁

Paul Rogers94 said:Sure, it’s a bit muddled and unclear like this. You could list another hundred types of yoga if you wanted to, but an experienced devotee can see there are really just two fundamental paths or currents. I’ll just mention them now—and I might elaborate more later if I feel like it and decide it’s actually worth the effort, since this topic is the starting point for my Magnum Opus. They are:

Let’s call it Willful Yoga (which works with Prana and Kundalini): it stems from the idea that mental content is cluttered by sensory impressions. To control the mind, you have to control the senses, and vice versa. The foundation is sublimation (not suppression) of sexual energy (Virya) into mental energy (Ojas Shakti)—we raise the Kundalini to the Sahasrara, resulting in Nirvikalpa Samadhi. This requires breath control, dietary control, sleep control, and mastery over all other aspects of life. An adept of this path masters all levels of existence (Lokas), entering and exiting them at will...

And let’s say Sahaja yoga (so-called Natural Yoga, or the yoga of direct insight into the true nature of reality—meaning without the mediation of the senses or the mind). Much like Zen, it allows things (life) to simply happen without any willful interference. Every attempt at intervention is just an obstruction. You have no control over experiences, nor do you cling to them, just as you don't cling to anything else. This current has its own completely different dynamic, and the result is direct insight into the true nature of reality (Jnana). It is the most beautiful and miraculous path—pure bliss through non-attachment and devotion. It doesn't bargain; it doesn't demand you do "this" or "that" to get something. It is unconditional. It doesn't ask you to earn THAT, because you *are* THAT (Tat Tvam Asi)...

These are the only two ways to wake up from all the dreams.

Only by understanding these two currents can we make sense of everything else.

Everything else listed is merely a consequence of one current or the other. There is no third option.

I should note that this is just a very, very rough outline, as I am in no mood for any serious elaboration—especially not here, because that would be pointless.

So, basically, Raya yoga and jñāna yoga are the two big branches. Though, I gotta say, that sentence of yours is a bit of a contradiction:
" yoga of direct insight into the true nature of reality—without the interference of the senses or the mind"—I mean, how are you supposed to realize what is true or not without using your mind or your senses in the first place?
There aren't books written about this second type of yoga because it’s impossible to write anything coherent about it.
That being said, I think those two yogas you mentioned actually bleed into one another; you really need both. Also, you totally overlooked bhakti yoga and mantra yoga, which are vital (sometimes even essential) for moving forward, whether you like it or not.
Like Patanjali roughly says:
..bychanting sacred texts, one establishes a connection with their chosen deity...(bhakti yoga)
....through the repetition of pranava, God is revealed(mantra yoga)....

neonmarlin39 said:Spot on.

Then you’ve got entire yoga systems that don't even bother citing the Vedas at all—like basically the whole Tantric tradition.

That sounds like total New Age nonsense to me. Just a complete misunderstanding of how the whole system works. You hear this kind of talk all the time in various Kundalini and Shiva yoga classes—whether the instructors realize they're doing it or not.😁

And yeah, Shiva yoga is straight-up trashbigly, as Donald Trump would say.😁

David Vaughn75 said:Only an incredibly foolish person would try to summon spirits after reading about how dangerous it is. In that same vein, I'm not interested in Yoga or other Eastern teachings, even if they aren't quite as risky. They just don't interest me enough to dive in. Whether we trust someone or not—well, it depends on whether that person is actually worthy of our trust. To me, those things pull people away from God and wreck both the soul and the psyche. I believe the people who say that.
For example, you obviously aren't interested in Christ. You haven't studied the New Testament closely, yet you still jump into debates about Christianity. The Bible is so good and so true that I have no need for things like the Bhagavad Gita or whatever. Jesus is so incredible that I have zero interest in the teachings of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I might read a little bit about it here and there, but the idea of actually immersing myself in that nonsense never even crosses my mind. It's pretty simple—if you want to ride a horse, you aren't going to go looking for a donkey instead.

Personally, what really gets under my skin about the Bible is when God orders these massive wars, wipes out infants, or calls for the killing of homosexuals and young boys—stuff like that. For me, that's definitely not "super."
Which babies?
In Egypt?
Weren't they killing Jewish babies for no reason?
Before all that!
Honestly, maybe they deserve the karma—let them see how much that kind of injustice hurts.
And are you gay?
Sorry, didn't realize.
People aren't being killed for it today; let them march. I don't have an issue with that. In the end, when God decides to judge everyone, those "Christians" who are adulterers, pedophiles, or gays will face the same judgment.

Zachary Cox69 said:Which babies?
In Egypt?
Weren't they killing Jewish babies for no reason?
Before all that!
Honestly, maybe they deserve the karma—let them see how much that kind of injustice hurts.
And are you gay?
Sorry, didn't realize.
People aren't being killed for it today; let them march. I don't have an issue with that. In the end, when God decides to judge everyone, those "Christians" who are adulterers, pedophiles, or gays will face the same judgment.

Patriot, where were you back in '91?

bluemason3 said:Selling yoga fog 😁

Look, as long as you ordered about 20 pounds of various healing herbs from the States (I caught that in another PDF, by the way), that’s gonna help you just as much as any "foggy yoga" routine.
Just kidding... mostly! But seriously, did you pick up anything to help you chill out too?😁 Like some Phenibut or something?

Steven Stewart3 said:So, basically, Raya yoga and jñāna yoga are the two big branches. Though, I gotta say, that sentence of yours is a bit of a contradiction:
" yoga of direct insight into the true nature of reality—without the interference of the senses or the mind"—I mean, how are you supposed to realize what is true or not without using your mind or your senses in the first place?
There aren't books written about this second type of yoga because it’s impossible to write anything coherent about it.
That being said, I think those two yogas you mentioned actually bleed into one another; you really need both. Also, you totally overlooked bhakti yoga and mantra yoga, which are vital (sometimes even essential) for moving forward, whether you like it or not.
Like Patanjali roughly says:
..bychanting sacred texts, one establishes a connection with their chosen deity...(bhakti yoga)
....through the repetition of pranava, God is revealed(mantra yoga)....

If we’re talking about the classic way of splitting up yoga, it’s usually jnana, karma, and bhakti. It’s kind of like a triangle in certain systems—if you pull one corner away, the whole thing just loses its balance and falls apart.

Steven Stewart3 said:So, basically, Raya yoga and jñāna yoga are the two big branches. Though, I gotta say, that sentence of yours is a bit of a contradiction:
" yoga of direct insight into the true nature of reality—without the interference of the senses or the mind"—I mean, how are you supposed to realize what is true or not without using your mind or your senses in the first place?
There aren't books written about this second type of yoga because it’s impossible to write anything coherent about it.
That being said, I think those two yogas you mentioned actually bleed into one another; you really need both. Also, you totally overlooked bhakti yoga and mantra yoga, which are vital (sometimes even essential) for moving forward, whether you like it or not.
Like Patanjali roughly says:
..bychanting sacred texts, one establishes a connection with their chosen deity...(bhakti yoga)
....through the repetition of pranava, God is revealed(mantra yoga)....

That’s just Advaita. There is plenty of material out there on it—it’s just a shame you didn't catch what the poet was actually getting at.

Paul Rogers94 said:well, that's just Advaita for you—you've got more than enough material to work with if you look closely enough

It's like when someone's reading the Bhagavad Gita

Honestly, there aren't really any books out there specifically for the jnana yogi. On those days when I'm feeling totally dialed in and I spend my evening "self-medicating" with deep contemplation, my head gets so full of ideas I feel like I could write an entire book. And I'm not talking about that beginner-level fluff, either—I mean some heavy stuff, maybe even diving into alchemy... but then the next day, I'm literally shaking from fear because I opened up a certain corner of my psyche, and by the third day, I'm finally feeling steady again.
I'm a bit slammed right now, so let's catch up later!

neonmarlin39 said:If we’re talking about the classic way of splitting up yoga, it’s usually jnana, karma, and bhakti. It’s kind of like a triangle in certain systems—if you pull one corner away, the whole thing just loses its balance and falls apart.

But where does Raya or any system focused on the actual physical practice fit in—you know, stuff like concentration, pranayama, and all that?
In my book, Karma yoga is really about embracing suffering to chip away at the ego. To me, that's the ultimate goal of yoga anyway: totally crushing the ego. It’s not some "helping others" thing like Mother Theresa; I mean, sure, people need help, but they should go to doctors for that, not a karma yogi. Just my two cents, though!

neonmarlin39 said:If we’re talking about the classic way of splitting up yoga, it’s usually jnana, karma, and bhakti. It’s kind of like a triangle in certain systems—if you pull one corner away, the whole thing just loses its balance and falls apart.

It’s all just one single yoga. You can't have pure devotion without understanding, nor can you have selfless action without devotion—it’s a continuous loop. It really just comes down to a person's temperament; which aspect gets emphasized depends on who they are, but ultimately, it's all just a byproduct of those two paths I mentioned.

Steven Stewart3 said:Look, as long as you ordered about 20 pounds of various healing herbs from the States (I caught that in another PDF, by the way), that’s gonna help you just as much as any "foggy yoga" routine.
Just kidding... mostly! But seriously, did you pick up anything to help you chill out too?😁 Like some Phenibut or something?

Yoga is pretty much useless, compared to the good drugs. 😁 It’s not just some stuff from America, and it’s certainly not just a bunch of plants. Most of it consists of much more tangible substances—though there are a few botanicals mixed in—and the benefits are pretty hard to ignore. 😛

I wasn't taking phenibut. Honestly, I’m not crazy enough to stockpile (pseudo)benzos like that.
I don't really get why Phenibut is such a huge trend right now. I guess for the alternative crowd, anything that doesn't require a prescription is automatically cooler. Personally, I don't see anything that makes it better than Xanax—I bought some once to try it out—but it seems to hit the stomach harder and builds a dependency way faster. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. 🤔
But that's beside the point. 😁

neonmarlin39 said:If we’re talking about the classic way of splitting up yoga, it’s usually jnana, karma, and bhakti. It’s kind of like a triangle in certain systems—if you pull one corner away, the whole thing just loses its balance and falls apart.

That division isn't exactly traditional, is it? I'm not sure if we saw anything like it before Swami Vivekananda.The terminology pops up, sure, but I haven't seen it framed as some kind of formal categorization in any of the traditional sources.) 🤔
At the end of the day, Hinduism is just pure chaos. There isn't a single tradition that stays consistent for more than one small group.

bluemason3 said:Yoga is pretty much useless, compared to the good drugs. 😁 It’s not just some stuff from America, and it’s certainly not just a bunch of plants. Most of it consists of much more tangible substances—though there are a few botanicals mixed in—and the benefits are pretty hard to ignore. 😛

I wasn't taking phenibut. Honestly, I’m not crazy enough to stockpile (pseudo)benzos like that.
I don't really get why Phenibut is such a huge trend right now. I guess for the alternative crowd, anything that doesn't require a prescription is automatically cooler. Personally, I don't see anything that makes it better than Xanax—I bought some once to try it out—but it seems to hit the stomach harder and builds a dependency way faster. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. 🤔
But that's beside the point. 😁

That division isn't exactly traditional, is it? I'm not sure if we saw anything like it before Swami Vivekananda.The terminology pops up, sure, but I haven't seen it framed as some kind of formal categorization in any of the traditional sources.) 🤔
At the end of the day, Hinduism is just pure chaos. There isn't a single tradition that stays consistent for more than one small group.

and Patanjali is read just as literally as a patriot reads the Bible

Anthony Perez9 said:You've been played. Unknown Nikola Tesla never said or wrote anything like that.
Don't waste your time on tabloid trash like this:

"Your followers are upset that you're attacking the theory of relativity."

(Fake) interview with Nikola Tesla from 1899.
http://www.tesla2017.com/intervju/

theory of relativity
Albert Einstein published The theory of special relativity in 1905

Man, seriously... I've actually read his biographies... and I even went to that "Nikola Tesla mind from the future" exhibit in New York where they were explaining all these Hindu concepts and how he was connected to them. They had these huge statues of Ganesha and Swami Vivekananda—who, by the way, was famously close with Tesla...

I mean, for real, maybe just do a quick Google search before trying to hit me with a counter-argument...

lonestag15 said:Man, seriously... I've actually read his biographies... and I even went to that "Nikola Tesla mind from the future" exhibit in New York where they were explaining all these Hindu concepts and how he was connected to them. They had these huge statues of Ganesha and Swami Vivekananda—who, by the way, was famously close with Tesla...

I mean, for real, maybe just do a quick Google search before trying to hit me with a counter-argument...

People talk nonsense all the time, especially when there's money involved. The internet is basically just an ocean of stupidity.

There’s a decent chance he communicated with Vivekananda, but if I recall correctly, the stories don't actually use real names. It’s mostly speculation (for instance, Vivekananda might have mentioned "a certain scientist" he was in contact with, assuming that part is even true).

I think it’s a stretch to claim him for those traditions. Even if there was some intellectual curiosity or correspondence, it's unlikely he ever identified as a Hindu or anything similar.

As for the comments, they're spot on. Aside from the dates clearly being off, that interview is actually part of a stage play. It has nothing to do with the real Tesla or a real interview.

bluemason3 said:Yoga is pretty much useless, compared to the good drugs. 😁 It’s not just some stuff from America, and it’s certainly not just a bunch of plants. Most of it consists of much more tangible substances—though there are a few botanicals mixed in—and the benefits are pretty hard to ignore. 😛

I wasn't taking phenibut. Honestly, I’m not crazy enough to stockpile (pseudo)benzos like that.
I don't really get why Phenibut is such a huge trend right now. I guess for the alternative crowd, anything that doesn't require a prescription is automatically cooler. Personally, I don't see anything that makes it better than Xanax—I bought some once to try it out—but it seems to hit the stomach harder and builds a dependency way faster. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. 🤔
But that's beside the point. 😁

That division isn't exactly traditional, is it? I'm not sure if we saw anything like it before Swami Vivekananda.The terminology pops up, sure, but I haven't seen it framed as some kind of formal categorization in any of the traditional sources.) 🤔
At the end of the day, Hinduism is just pure chaos. There isn't a single tradition that stays consistent for more than one small group.

So, what did you actually order from that 10kg stash of yours? What kind of good drugs and heavy hitters are we talking about? Please tell me it isn't just some fiber supplements to help you poop better!😁
Give me a hint about what's actually worth it. Have you tried anything for staying wired? Like psychostimulants (Modafinil or something along those lines)?