Turkey - TR

Perhaps this thread is a more appropriate place for this discussion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mexico/comm...ekskurzije_za/

A Turkish travel agency is actually offering organized group trips specifically for people traveling to Mexico to get vaccinated.

Jacob Price95 said:Look what the President did to him 🤣 🤣

Michel can't even sleep after what happened. Von der Leyen admitted: 'Those scenes just keep playing in my head.'

🤣 The saga continues. 😁 At this rate, someone's going to need therapy because of the Sultan...

The saga of the Sultan's ongoing disrespect toward the European Union customs union continues.

It’s almost predictable at this point—what we can realistically expect from the European Union is that their administration will start funneling money directly to the Sultan using funds provided by the European Union taxpayers.

Relations between the USA and Turkey haven't been this strained since the Cyprus crisis back in '74.
The USA kicked Turkey out of the F-35 Lightning II program.

Turkey basically told the USA they should take a good, long look at their own history before judging anyone else. This comes after the US officially labeled the 1915 massacres of Armenians as genocide—a move Turkey is calling nothing more than political opportunism and cheap populism.

President Joe Biden made it clear that the American people honor all the Armenians who lost their lives in that genocide over a century ago. It’s a huge shift from how Washington, D.C. used to play it; for decades, they were always walking on eggshells, carefully picking their words just to avoid upsetting Ankara.

Now that the U.S. has officially recognized the Turkish genocide against the Armenians, I really think we need to start talking about kicking Turkey out of NATO... they just don't belong there.

Honestly, it feels like China and Russia are just sitting there, watching and waiting for their moment.

Backlash over Biden's statement is heating up: Turkey is calling for the closure of Nellis Air Force Base to US troops:
https://www.geopolitika.news/razgovo...ricke-vojnike/
Fine. Sure. Let's all pat ourselves on the back, even if the odds are slim. 😁
The genocide should have been acknowledged much sooner—back when Uruguay did it in 1965, for instance. We should have used those truths to build relations, regardless of the Cold War, but I guess that's just too idealistic for the world we live in today.

'Erdogan, Assassin!' French Armenians chant during genocide commemorations
''Erdogan, murderer,'' cry French Armenians on the anniversary of the genocide

Among the French Armenians marching through cities like Paris, Lyon, and Marseille yesterday to mark the 106th anniversary of the genocide were those who faced attacks last year from Turkish 'Grey Wolves' during their raid on Decines, a small suburb near Lyon with a large French Armenian population.

October 2020, Decines: iron bars, Turkish flags, the destruction of Armenian businesses, and chants praising the great leader...
“Where are the Armenians?” the attackers yelled while storming the town, swinging iron bars and waving national flags, shouting pro-Erdogan slogans as they vandalized Armenian storefronts.

''Hitlerdogan'' 😬

Kevin Peterson53 said:Honestly, it feels like China and Russia are just sitting there, watching and waiting for their moment.

I mean, China will probably be more than happy to back anyone giving Turkey trouble, mostly because if they don't, Erdogan might actually start making noise about the Uyghur situation.

Sam Alvarez4 said:Now that the U.S. has officially recognized the Turkish genocide against the Armenians, I really think we need to start talking about kicking Turkey out of NATO... they just don't belong there.

I'm with you on that one.

placidrider48 said:I mean, China will probably be more than happy to back anyone giving Turkey trouble, mostly because if they don't, Erdogan might actually start making noise about the Uyghur situation.

Turkey is deeply embedded in China's "Belt and Road Initiative."

They recently inked a massive $5 billion deal with the Export-Import Bank of the United States' Chinese counterpart to boost bilateral trade and investment.

Given that Turkey has been grappling with a stalling economy lately, every single influx of capital is absolutely vital to their survival; so, do we really believe Erdogan would jeopardize his own power and political existence over some distant Uyghur concerns? Of course not. Furthermore, now that the USA is distancing itself from him by recognizing the Armenian genocide, it certainly isn't in his interest to further sour relations with China. In fact, China will gladly exploit this growing rift between Turkey and the USA to pull the Turks even closer into their orbit.

Joe Biden just made history. He’s officially the first US president to call the massacres and deportations carried out by the Ottoman Empire against Armenians during World War I what they actually were: a genocide. Every president before him at the White House played it safe, terrified of messing up the relationship between the USA and Turkey. This move sent shockwaves globally, and people are losing it.

The Armenian diaspora here in the States is celebrating. Biden finally put a label on the systematic slaughter of their ancestors by the Ottoman Empire forces during and after World War I.

"I'm just so happy my kids get to see this day. We've worked so hard to get America to recognize the Armenian genocide," said Araz Artinian from Los Angeles.

"Look, sometimes I just break down crying, it's heavy stuff. But thank God our president was the only one brave enough to stand up and admit the truth," added Varoujan Kiodjian, whose grandfather was a victim.

Over in Armenia, the vibe is pure excitement. Even the outgoing Prime Minister, Nikol Pashinyan, took to Facebook to thank Joe Biden for this massive show of support.

"Recognizing the genocide is an encouraging example for anyone trying to build a world based on justice and tolerance," Pashinyan wrote on his Facebook page.

Of course, Ankara isn't happy. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan slammed the move, calling it a blatant attempt by a third party to stick its nose into the country's internal affairs.

Even the top guy in Turkish diplomacy, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, weighed in on Twitter.

"Words can't change or rewrite history. We don't need lessons from anyone about our own past. Political opportunism is the ultimate betrayal of peace and justice," Çavuşoğlu posted.

Things got heated fast—the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs actually summoned the US ambassador in Ankara because of Biden's statement. They basically called it unacceptable.

And it’s not just politicians; Biden's declaration has people in Turkey totally riled up too.

"Now they're talking about genocide. It’s honestly disturbing and upsetting," said one resident from Istanbul.

Another person from Istanbul wasn't buying it either: "I don't think that statement is sincere. Biden doesn't get to decide if there was a genocide or not."

This whole thing could seriously mess with the already shaky relationship between these two NATO allies.

Historians estimate that the Ottoman army killed up to 1.5 million Armenians. While Turkey admits many Armenians died during the fighting, they flat-out deny there was ever any intent to commit genocide.

Ursula von der Leyen was reportedly stunned by how she was treated in Ankara: ‘This wouldn’t have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie’

If I remember correctly, it was Charles Michel who really set the tone, being the first one to jump up and sit down next to Erdogan.

Ehh, those Frenchmen & Germans. 😁

Kevin Peterson53 said:

Ursula von der Leyen was reportedly stunned by how she was treated in Ankara: ‘This wouldn’t have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie’

If I remember correctly, it was Charles Michel who really set the tone, being the first one to jump up and sit down next to Erdogan.

Ehh, those Frenchmen & Germans. 😁

Is it just me, or if there had been two men, would the Commission President have ended up on the sofa while the Council President took the armchair? Their own protocol ranks them unequally anyway, so there wouldn't have been an "incident."

Jesse Cook4 said:Is it just me, or if there had been two men, would the Commission President have ended up on the sofa while the Council President took the armchair? Their own protocol ranks them unequally anyway, so there wouldn't have been an "incident."

Maybe you feel that way because von der Leyen herself basically called them out during her address to the European Union Parliament on Monday. She pointed out that this happened specifically because she’s a woman and gave them a pretty thorough dressing down. She noted there's no excuse for it, even asking, "Would this have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie?"
She made it clear it wasn't about a shortage of chairs or some protocol error.
By the way, the perfect term for this whole mess is "Sofagate."

rowdytiger13 said:Maybe you feel that way because von der Leyen herself basically called them out during her address to the European Union Parliament on Monday. She pointed out that this happened specifically because she’s a woman and gave them a pretty thorough dressing down. She noted there's no excuse for it, even asking, "Would this have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie?"
She made it clear it wasn't about a shortage of chairs or some protocol error.
By the way, the perfect term for this whole mess is "Sofagate."

That's exactly my point. If she had sat next to Erogan while Charles Michel took the sofa, would everyone suddenly be fine with it?

From what I can gather, European Union protocol dictates that Charles Michel outranks her. Those poorly placed chairs just made the hierarchy way too obvious. Sitting any other way would have looked even stupider.

It honestly feels like she's just offended because, as a woman, she didn't get a "pass"—not because of the actual protocols.

Jesse Cook4 said:That's exactly my point. If she had sat next to Erogan while Charles Michel took the sofa, would everyone suddenly be fine with it?

From what I can gather, European Union protocol dictates that Charles Michel outranks her. Those poorly placed chairs just made the hierarchy way too obvious. Sitting any other way would have looked even stupider.

It honestly feels like she's just offended because, as a woman, she didn't get a "pass"—not because of the actual protocols.

Here: https://www.politico.eu/article/sofa...-i-am-a-woman/

She claims it wasn't about protocol. Michael seems to agree, otherwise he wouldn't have gone public about the whole mess.

rowdytiger13 said:Here: https://www.politico.eu/article/sofa...-i-am-a-woman/

She claims it wasn't about protocol. Michael seems to agree, otherwise he wouldn't have gone public about the whole mess.

According to Wikipedia, it also says:

"He further mentioned that a possible cause of the distressing situation was that Turkey had strictly adhered to the diplomatic protocol[1][12] which rates the head of the EU council above the head of the EU commission.[10][13]"

The Turks are saying the exact same thing.

They should have just provided identical chairs. When you don't have matching seating, protocol dictates who sits where.

Jesse Cook4 said:According to Wikipedia, it also says:

"He further mentioned that a possible cause of the distressing situation was that Turkey had strictly adhered to the diplomatic protocol[1][12] which rates the head of the EU council above the head of the EU commission.[10][13]"

The Turks are saying the exact same thing.

They should have just provided identical chairs. When you don't have matching seating, protocol dictates who sits where.

Meanwhile, von der Leyen claims the chair situation wasn't the issue since there were plenty of identical ones available. They just didn't arrange them correctly to humiliate her.