Is a lie more useful than the truth? (Religion)

wearyowl29 said:I believe in the spirit, in Consciousness, and in the Source of us all.
There’s definitely something higher up there.😲

Why couldn't a personal God just be one specific manifestation of that spirit or consciousness?

Melissa Stewart6 said:Why couldn't a personal God just be one specific manifestation of that spirit or consciousness?

But why does He have to be personal at all?
If there's a way for it to be less personal, honestly, I think that works much better.

I mean, take a look at a clear summer night sky out in the Midwest. It doesn't exactly feel like someone sat down and signed their name in the stars.

wearyowl29 said:But why does He have to be personal at all?
If there's a way for it to be less personal, honestly, I think that works much better.

I mean, take a look at a clear summer night sky out in the Midwest. It doesn't exactly feel like someone sat down and signed their name in the stars.

So, when you say a personal God, you're actually referring to the Christian God, right?

He could be both personal and impersonal. Consciousness reveals itself through a person.

Melissa Stewart6 said:So, when you say a personal God, you're actually referring to the Christian God, right?

He could be both personal and impersonal. Consciousness reveals itself through a person.

Yeah, exactly that guy.

I just don't see how the source of everything could be a single person without first being a consciousness that shapes all these different forms.

wearyowl29 said:Yeah, exactly that guy.

I just don't see how the source of everything could be a single person without first being a consciousness that shapes all these different forms.

Consciousness usually finds its way through people.

Melissa Stewart6 said:Consciousness usually finds its way through people.

Maybe we just do that to make it easier to swallow.😉

Melissa Stewart6 said:Consciousness usually finds its way through people.

Melissa Stewart6 said:Why couldn't a personal God just be one specific manifestation of that spirit or consciousness?

So, basically, God is a superhero...

I mean, think about it! Why would a being capable of creating entire universes, watching everything from quantum mechanics to whole galaxies outside of time, knowing absolutely everything—like every single decimal of Pi or every digit of Graham's number... actually care about us humans?

Isn't that incredibly selfish? Or honestly, just a massive projection of our own need for a parental figure onto a being that can... well, do literally anything.

Olivia Evans8 said:So, basically, God is a superhero...

I mean, think about it! Why would a being capable of creating entire universes, watching everything from quantum mechanics to whole galaxies outside of time, knowing absolutely everything—like every single decimal of Pi or every digit of Graham's number... actually care about us humans?

Isn't that incredibly selfish? Or honestly, just a massive projection of our own need for a parental figure onto a being that can... well, do literally anything.

If that’s really the core of it, then the answer is pretty blunt. It's because people are way more interesting than the vacuum of space, quantum physics, galaxies, or even the endless digits of Pi and Graham's number.

ruggedraven36 said:If that’s really the core of it, then the answer is pretty blunt. It's because people are way more interesting than the vacuum of space, quantum physics, galaxies, or even the endless digits of Pi and Graham's number.

People are only interesting to other people. Otherwise, they aren't. Even bees find flowers more compelling.

Ethan Gomez82 said:People are only interesting to other people. Otherwise, they aren't. Even bees find flowers more compelling.

Olivia Evans8 was talking about God, not bees. It follows that if God is described as being made in our image, then humans are his most interesting creation—unless he’s got some goddess tucked away somewhere.

But sure, for some folks, the digits of Pi are more captivating than actual human beings, so I guess God might feel the same way.

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

And look, Science is just as much a response to that same helplessness—that desperate need to exert some kind of control over our lives. We want to conquer existence, so we hunt for solutions everywhere.
In a psychological sense, I think Faith is essentially a mechanism for self-regulation because it provides meaningful, comforting answers when you feel totally powerless. Take, say, someone whose loved one was murdered by a killer who was never caught. That agony, that raw hunger for justice... it forces you to find an exit, and people find it in a supernatural being who ensures that evil doesn't go unpunished. Because... what kind of world is it where the innocent suffer while the monsters walk free?

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles of modern civilization. To them, nothing exists outside the bubble of their own social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the solar system, the galaxy, space... it all gets filtered through the context of human relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around Man.
From that standpoint, it's incredibly hard to accept the fact that we are truly just tiny cogs in a massive machine that plays favorites with no one. Not just hard—it’s almost unthinkable.
Once you grasp that perspective, you realize how unrealistic it is to expect anyone to shift such a fundamental worldview. So, it makes perfect sense that people seek answers and a sense of agency by anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel small. Humans try to solve human problems with human-shaped solutions.

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

My point was actually that this is exactly why faith remains so powerful.

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. In practice, information only becomes "untrue" once you're confronted with a piece of evidence that contradicts what you thought was true.
Sure, we can point to cases where something we know to be scientifically proven is treated as false. But those who haven't accessed that data—or those for whom that data isn't "true" enough—don't feel like they're actively focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruthfulness" intentionally here, because calling something a "lie" implies a level of intent that isn't always there.

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

Yeah, obviously. 🙄 This method? It’s honestly turned out to be the most effective way to manipulate people and feed them lies—if you can even call it that. If you actually want to get inside someone's head and make them swallow your idea whole, you don't just lie blindly... you strategically weaponize the truth. You take the facts, twist them just enough to fit your own agenda, and present it as gospel. It's devious, really... but it works.

I mean, let's be honest here—it’s all just noise... people talking in circles without ever actually getting to the point. It’s like we’re all just waiting for something meaningful to happen, but instead, we just get more of the same recycled nonsense. I’ve seen this pattern a thousand times before, and frankly, it's exhausting. You think you're making progress, then you realize you've just been walking in place... and honestly? I'm starting to lose interest in even trying to decipher what anyone is actually aiming for...

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

Truth.

I mean, honestly... I’ve been sitting here staring at this for a while, trying to make sense of it all, and I just can't help but feel like we're missing the forest for the trees. It feels like everyone is just shouting into the void without actually listening to a single word being said—it's exhausting, really. You see these arguments popping up everywhere, people getting worked up over nothing, acting like every little disagreement is some sort of monumental battle for the soul of the country... which, let's be real, it usually isn't. It's just noise. Just endless, repetitive noise that leaves you feeling completely drained by the end of the day. And the worst part? Nobody ever actually changes their mind. We just go in circles, spinning our wheels, thinking we're making progress when we're really just standing in the same spot we were ten years ago... it's almost funny if it weren't so incredibly depressing...

Amanda Flores88 said:Yeah, it can't do that (yet)—which basically means faith is born from helplessness. It’s what people use to try and control their own lives.

Information has to be tailored to whoever you're talking to.
Unlike secularism, religion has this huge edge because it plays on our instinctual triggers. We react to concepts like love and justice, but we aren't actually reacting to the raw reality of what those things entail.
That's why it's easier to swallow simple answers than have someone ruin the vibe.
Science and secularism haven't found a formula that hits home for everyone, all the time. Honestly? I'd say they're just too lazy to actually engage with the human psyche.
There's no cohesive vision or program. It relies too much on common sense, and we already know that model is a bust.
It can be a massive shock. If you grew up believing you'll get to hang out with your parents and kids again after you die, realizing it might just be a hallucination is a brutal hit. Especially if you're a kid raised in the Bible Belt where your whole social life revolves around believing in God.

True, and it makes it look like science is just as helpless as religion is.

We tend to focus on lies as a byproduct of ignorance, but reality itself is weird—as in, what we call "truth." Truth is so massive that you can manipulate facts pretty effectively. You can just grab little scraps of reality and stitch them together into whatever narrative works best for the moment. It’s so convenient you don't even need to lie.

Then again, it’s hard not to see how solving one problem just opens up a whole new box of them.

In certain cases, that’s exactly how it goes. People find themselves unable to believe anymore and go through hell trying to detach from everything they knew—those beliefs that are buried deep in their psyche. It isn't easy.

No kidding, I agree.
I don't know if it helps much to realize that people before us went through the exact same thing, and people after us probably will too.

And honestly, so what if the world changes? It’s fallen apart a million times before. Breaking away from old structures is hellish, but so is white-knuckling it through outdated models that don't work anymore. Time will figure it out eventually.

We’re never going to be able to scrub that irrational streak out of the human psyche—and honestly, I don't think we should try—for two big reasons...
Logic starts falling apart the second it actually confirms what we already know—it’s almost like our brains just shut down once they feel validated. It makes you wonder... how much are we actually interested in learning, versus just looking for someone to tell us we were right all along?
Look, being rational doesn't automatically mean you're going to flip your stance or change your mind just because some logic comes your way. Honestly? If embracing a different perspective happens to serve your interests better—if it actually yields a higher payoff in the moment—you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It all just depends on the circumstances... everything is relative, really...

ruggedraven36 said:If that’s really the core of it, then the answer is pretty blunt. It's because people are way more interesting than the vacuum of space, quantum physics, galaxies, or even the endless digits of Pi and Graham's number.

ruggedraven36 said:Olivia Evans8 was talking about God, not bees. It follows that if God is described as being made in our image, then humans are his most interesting creation—unless he’s got some goddess tucked away somewhere.

But sure, for some folks, the digits of Pi are more captivating than actual human beings, so I guess God might feel the same way.

Humans are interesting to other humans, and sure, to God too—it's just that He probably doesn't find us interesting in the exact same way we find each other.

I mean, seriously... you're talking about a being capable of whipping up a 10-dimensional universe with wild physics like He's talking about your grandma looking after you.

Olivia Evans8 said:Humans are interesting to other humans, and sure, to God too—it's just that He probably doesn't find us interesting in the exact same way we find each other.

I mean, seriously... you're talking about a being capable of whipping up a 10-dimensional universe with wild physics like He's talking about your grandma looking after you.

When people try to picture God, they can't help but project themselves onto the concept—it’s unavoidable. Usually, we just end up projecting whatever happens to be trendy or whatever matters most to us at the moment. One decade it's all about kindness and love, the next it's justice, then it's raw power or infinite intelligence—basically, whatever humans happen to be obsessed with. Saying "a being capable of creating a 10-dimensional solar system with wild rules" isn't some profound insight; it’s just pure human megalomania. There’s this constant push to strip away any resemblance between the divine and humanity, but honestly? That’s nothing more than a metaphor for how alienated we feel from ourselves.

So, if we say God looks like us, we're just projecting onto Him, right? That's anthropomorphism... but if He’s totally different from anything we can imagine, then isn't that just pure megalomania?

Does that mean we've basically reached a point where we can't conclude anything at all?

ruggedraven36 said:Olivia Evans8 was talking about God, not bees. It follows that if God is described as being made in our image, then humans are his most interesting creation—unless he’s got some goddess tucked away somewhere.

But sure, for some folks, the digits of Pi are more captivating than actual human beings, so I guess God might feel the same way.

Of course we're the most similar. You don't honestly think a human would invent a god that looks like a bee, do you? If a bee were the one doing the inventing, its god would probably just buzz and dance around to point out the safest meadows filled with endless nectar.

Ethan Gomez82 said:Of course we're the most similar. You don't honestly think a human would invent a god that looks like a bee, do you? If a bee were the one doing the inventing, its god would probably just buzz and dance around to point out the safest meadows filled with endless nectar.

Don't bother guessing my take on this—I already laid it all out in post #113.

Jacob Cooper5 said:And look, Science is just as much a response to that same helplessness—that desperate need to exert some kind of control over our lives. We want to conquer existence, so we hunt for solutions everywhere.
In a psychological sense, I think Faith is essentially a mechanism for self-regulation because it provides meaningful, comforting answers when you feel totally powerless. Take, say, someone whose loved one was murdered by a killer who was never caught. That agony, that raw hunger for justice... it forces you to find an exit, and people find it in a supernatural being who ensures that evil doesn't go unpunished. Because... what kind of world is it where the innocent suffer while the monsters walk free?

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles of modern civilization. To them, nothing exists outside the bubble of their own social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the solar system, the galaxy, space... it all gets filtered through the context of human relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around Man.
From that standpoint, it's incredibly hard to accept the fact that we are truly just tiny cogs in a massive machine that plays favorites with no one. Not just hard—it’s almost unthinkable.
Once you grasp that perspective, you realize how unrealistic it is to expect anyone to shift such a fundamental worldview. So, it makes perfect sense that people seek answers and a sense of agency by anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel small. Humans try to solve human problems with human-shaped solutions.

My point was actually that this is exactly why faith remains so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. In practice, information only becomes "untrue" once you're confronted with a piece of evidence that contradicts what you thought was true.
Sure, we can point to cases where something we know to be scientifically proven is treated as false. But those who haven't accessed that data—or those for whom that data isn't "true" enough—don't feel like they're actively focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruthfulness" intentionally here, because calling something a "lie" implies a level of intent that isn't always there.

Yeah, obviously. 🙄 This method? It’s honestly turned out to be the most effective way to manipulate people and feed them lies—if you can even call it that. If you actually want to get inside someone's head and make them swallow your idea whole, you don't just lie blindly... you strategically weaponize the truth. You take the facts, twist them just enough to fit your own agenda, and present it as gospel. It's devious, really... but it works.

I mean, let's be honest here—it’s all just noise... people talking in circles without ever actually getting to the point. It’s like we’re all just waiting for something meaningful to happen, but instead, we just get more of the same recycled nonsense. I’ve seen this pattern a thousand times before, and frankly, it's exhausting. You think you're making progress, then you realize you've just been walking in place... and honestly? I'm starting to lose interest in even trying to decipher what anyone is actually aiming for...

Truth.

I mean, honestly... I’ve been sitting here staring at this for a while, trying to make sense of it all, and I just can't help but feel like we're missing the forest for the trees. It feels like everyone is just shouting into the void without actually listening to a single word being said—it's exhausting, really. You see these arguments popping up everywhere, people getting worked up over nothing, acting like every little disagreement is some sort of monumental battle for the soul of the country... which, let's be real, it usually isn't. It's just noise. Just endless, repetitive noise that leaves you feeling completely drained by the end of the day. And the worst part? Nobody ever actually changes their mind. We just go in circles, spinning our wheels, thinking we're making progress when we're really just standing in the same spot we were ten years ago... it's almost funny if it weren't so incredibly depressing...

We’re never going to be able to scrub that irrational streak out of the human psyche—and honestly, I don't think we should try—for two big reasons...
Logic starts falling apart the second it actually confirms what we already know—it’s almost like our brains just shut down once they feel validated. It makes you wonder... how much are we actually interested in learning, versus just looking for someone to tell us we were right all along?
Look, being rational doesn't automatically mean you're going to flip your stance or change your mind just because some logic comes your way. Honestly? If embracing a different perspective happens to serve your interests better—if it actually yields a higher payoff in the moment—you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It all just depends on the circumstances... everything is relative, really...

And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

Yeah, that’s just the reality of it. The more secure our existence becomes, the fewer enemies God feels the need to wipe out...

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

Look, the laws of nature exist. The problem is they don't have a "sense" of justice. They don't give a damn about empathy, love, pleasure, suffering, or death. There is only successful adaptation and failed adaptation. Under the laws of nature, disability is simply what it is—an inability to adapt to the environment. Spending a species' resources on individuals who can't adapt is also, from the perspective of the nature element, something that further threatens the survival of that entire species...

That’s the core issue for so many people—they just can't stomach the fact that the world is fundamentally cold and doesn't care one bit about human feelings or destinies. You could be dying in absolute agony or basking in pure love; to the universe, there is zero difference.
Intelligence itself clearly involves forms of empathy, love, and hatred that just aren't compatible with the raw mechanics of nature. Most people will die clinging to those ideals rather than accepting the actual reality of things.

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

I could agree with you, but I don't think this is a matter of lacking knowledge. It’s never been easier to acquire knowledge. You can practically get a PhD using nothing but the internet these days. But the person who actually earns that degree is the one who sees it as a priority in their life...
Motivation is what drives the pursuit of priorities. People who don't see any emotional need to break out of the ideological bubbles they live in don't feel a lack of knowledge, because their daily lives are functioning just fine enough for them.

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

You hit the nail on the head there.

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

I wouldn't call myself a fanatic for the irrational. In fact, I think the irrationality is what actually enriches our lives. That's the whole point of intelligence—it gives us the space to be creative and actually enjoy life.
But we have to recognize which things belong where. You have to recognize when it's a game and just let go, and recognize when it's not a game and maintain a critical eye.

Amanda Flores88 said:And that’s exactly the kind of world we live in. Because of that, God undergoes this transformation from a vengeful monster into this breathtaking grace, hoping to create a world that might be hard to wrap our heads around, but is definitely more pleasant.

Most people view the world through an ideological lens shaped by the principles they were taught. To them, nothing exists outside the boundaries of their social interactions. Nature, flora, fauna, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe... it's all viewed through the prism of social relationships and culture. It's pure egocentrism. Everything revolves around Earth—or rather, around humans.
From that perspective, it's tough to accept the reality that we're really just tiny cogs in a massive machine that doesn't play favorites. Not just tough—unthinkable.
If you get that perspective, you can see how unrealistic it is to expect that worldview to ever change. So, it makes sense that people look for answers and control in anthropomorphizing everything that makes them feel helpless. Humans try to solve human problems with human logic.

Yeah, and I'd add that part of the reason is because patterns *do* exist—we notice order. It's not like nature and society are just chaotic flies buzzing around aimlessly. Nature is actually quite intricate and orderly in many ways. We look for our place within that order, so it feels like our own lives should have some sort of logic or rhythm too. If the Sun has an obligation to rise in the east and set in the west every single day without fail, how is it possible that my life is just a disorganized mess?

My point was that this is precisely why faith is so powerful.

I wouldn't put it quite like that. Information only becomes "untrue" in practice when you're faced with a piece of information that contradicts what you believe to be true.
We can talk about cases where something is scientifically proven to be false. But those who haven't accessed that info, or for whom that info isn't "true" enough, don't feel like they're focusing on a lie.

I'm using the term "untruth" intentionally because calling something a "lie" implies an intent to deceive, which isn't always the case.

I was also trying to emphasize that this is an imaginative construct born out of a need for balance rather than a desire to mislead—but that kind of thing can only exist in spaces where we know nothing.

Sure, even believers might find God's will unpredictable sometimes, but that still doesn't mean He isn't there or that there isn't something like Him. Maybe the rules are just beyond our reach, but that's not because He's flawed; it's because humans are flawed—we're imperfect, undeveloped, messy... and honestly, that's easier to swallow than the total uncertainty of existence.

We’re never gonna scrub the irrational side out of being human—two big reasons why:
1. Logic starts acting irrational the second it’s used to confirm what we already believe. I mean, how many of us actually care about learning something new?
2. Being rational doesn't mean you'll actually change your mind. If staying irrational serves you better, you’ll grab onto it in a heartbeat. It just depends on the situation.

So, yeah, sounds like a glitch in the system, right? Honestly, I don't get it—why waste resources maintaining a mechanism that seems like a total fail? It’s gotta serve some purpose, though. Just venting here, but the constant push to prioritize "logic" over "emotion"—or intellect over feelings—really gets under my skin. I swear, I haven't met a single person who actually thinks they’re being irrational. It’s always everyone else, right? Everyone else is the one being dumb and unreasonable.
Have you noticed the world would be way better if everything worked exactly your way? Because I have—pretty sure it’d be perfect if it were custom-made for me.

Back to your quote, though—learning isn't that straightforward either. There's often no consensus in fields that aren't tied to imagination or religion, and that’s the kicker. There isn't just one way or one answer, and we usually don't realize where we messed up until we see the fallout in real life. Maybe we should've done things differently...

Look, there are cases where there truly is no scientific consensus, and then there are cases where a fake lack of consensus is manufactured because the media is being bombarded with "research" funded by some massive corporation whose results happen to contradict the official word.

I don't see a problem with that. I can say I have quite a bit of experience researching the topic you're talking about. I've looked into ways to manage anxiety through supplements while simultaneously diving into everything related to sports and weight training.
It opens up this massive conflict between corporate marketing and actual personal experience.
If you start looking at personal experiences, you can find people who have actually put in the work to learn about their own conditions. Sometimes those people know a hell of a lot more than the experts. They've tried everything under the sun and learned so much through their own journey.

My point is that by doing my own research, I can get a sense of what's worth it, what's questionable, and what's best to steer clear of entirely. Anyone can do it, if they actually care enough.

Jacob Cooper5 said:Yeah, that’s just the reality of it. The more secure our existence becomes, the fewer enemies God feels the need to wipe out...

Look, the laws of nature exist. The problem is they don't have a "sense" of justice. They don't give a damn about empathy, love, pleasure, suffering, or death. There is only successful adaptation and failed adaptation. Under the laws of nature, disability is simply what it is—an inability to adapt to the environment. Spending a species' resources on individuals who can't adapt is also, from the perspective of the nature element, something that further threatens the survival of that entire species...

That’s the core issue for so many people—they just can't stomach the fact that the world is fundamentally cold and doesn't care one bit about human feelings or destinies. You could be dying in absolute agony or basking in pure love; to the universe, there is zero difference.
Intelligence itself clearly involves forms of empathy, love, and hatred that just aren't compatible with the raw mechanics of nature. Most people will die clinging to those ideals rather than accepting the actual reality of things.

I could agree with you, but I don't think this is a matter of lacking knowledge. It’s never been easier to acquire knowledge. You can practically get a PhD using nothing but the internet these days. But the person who actually earns that degree is the one who sees it as a priority in their life...
Motivation is what drives the pursuit of priorities. People who don't see any emotional need to break out of the ideological bubbles they live in don't feel a lack of knowledge, because their daily lives are functioning just fine enough for them.

You hit the nail on the head there.

I wouldn't call myself a fanatic for the irrational. In fact, I think the irrationality is what actually enriches our lives. That's the whole point of intelligence—it gives us the space to be creative and actually enjoy life.
But we have to recognize which things belong where. You have to recognize when it's a game and just let go, and recognize when it's not a game and maintain a critical eye.

Look, there are cases where there truly is no scientific consensus, and then there are cases where a fake lack of consensus is manufactured because the media is being bombarded with "research" funded by some massive corporation whose results happen to contradict the official word.

I don't see a problem with that. I can say I have quite a bit of experience researching the topic you're talking about. I've looked into ways to manage anxiety through supplements while simultaneously diving into everything related to sports and weight training.
It opens up this massive conflict between corporate marketing and actual personal experience.
If you start looking at personal experiences, you can find people who have actually put in the work to learn about their own conditions. Sometimes those people know a hell of a lot more than the experts. They've tried everything under the sun and learned so much through their own journey.

My point is that by doing my own research, I can get a sense of what's worth it, what's questionable, and what's best to steer clear of entirely. Anyone can do it, if they actually care enough.

If you look at justice as following the rules, you could argue that nature is actually very fair because of how strict it is. Or if you see justice as balance, there's nothing unnatural about that either. The drive toward fairness isn't any less "feeling" than the pull of our other biological settings. Honestly, we should probably just lean into that feeling.

But regardless of anyone's personal version of truth, when we're talking about the nature element, nothing human can exist or belong solely to us without belonging to nature and its order—that includes justice. Anything incompatible with the nature element is impossible. Our problem is having these contradictory impulses pulling us in different directions.

I don't see a problem with being irrational. I think irrationality actually enriches our lives. That's the whole advantage of intelligence—it gives us room to be creative and actually enjoy things.
But we need to recognize what belongs where. Know when you're playing the game and just go with it, and know when you're not and stay critical.

I think I should separate logic from irrationality from emotion—they don't necessarily have to be linked. Simply put, a person can be brilliant or an idiot regardless of how sensitive they are. But in conversation, people always act like emotions are the opposite of reason, which just isn't right.

Of course emotions enrich life; sensitivity is a quality all its own. It has its own scale, and we're pretty good at spotting who is actually intelligent on that emotional spectrum and who isn't.

I don't see the issue here...

My point is that through investigation, I can figure out what's worth doing, what's questionable, and what's best to avoid. Anyone can do that if they care enough.

Sure, you're the expert on how long it took you to find the right way.

It’s also pretty common—though just as tough—to finally solve something right when you're about to give up on it. 😁

Amanda Flores88 said:If you look at justice as following the rules, you could argue that nature is actually very fair because of how strict it is. Or if you see justice as balance, there's nothing unnatural about that either. The drive toward fairness isn't any less "feeling" than the pull of our other biological settings. Honestly, we should probably just lean into that feeling.

But regardless of anyone's personal version of truth, when we're talking about the nature element, nothing human can exist or belong solely to us without belonging to nature and its order—that includes justice. Anything incompatible with the nature element is impossible. Our problem is having these contradictory impulses pulling us in different directions.

I don't see a problem with being irrational. I think irrationality actually enriches our lives. That's the whole advantage of intelligence—it gives us room to be creative and actually enjoy things.
But we need to recognize what belongs where. Know when you're playing the game and just go with it, and know when you're not and stay critical.

I think I should separate logic from irrationality from emotion—they don't necessarily have to be linked. Simply put, a person can be brilliant or an idiot regardless of how sensitive they are. But in conversation, people always act like emotions are the opposite of reason, which just isn't right.

Of course emotions enrich life; sensitivity is a quality all its own. It has its own scale, and we're pretty good at spotting who is actually intelligent on that emotional spectrum and who isn't.

I don't see the issue here...

My point is that through investigation, I can figure out what's worth doing, what's questionable, and what's best to avoid. Anyone can do that if they care enough.

Sure, you're the expert on how long it took you to find the right way.

It’s also pretty common—though just as tough—to finally solve something right when you're about to give up on it. 😁

Then, by that absurdly narrow logic, a Nazi regime would be considered one of the most "just" systems ever devised; after all, they followed their own twisted regulations to the letter, even while committing atrocities that were profoundly evil and fundamentally unjust.

one might argue that nature is incredibly just due to its uncompromising strictness.

I fail to see how nature could possibly be described as 'just,' nor can I find any logical link between natural laws and the concept of justice; nature is essentially a brutal domain governed by the law of the jungle, where the predator at the top of the food chain maintains its status simply through the capacity for savage slaughter.