Religion classes in school - Megathread

brisknomad13 said:Just because someone messed up doesn't really prove anything. It's an elective, so people don't hold them to the same standard.
Personally, I'm way more bothered when kids can't even write a basic essay in English class or struggle with simple math after years of studying the core subjects.
Not to mention some teachers who show up to their certification exams and struggle to write a decent essay themselves...😁
And then they're out here logging notes in the digital gradebook...🤣

Look, it's legal and it's fine. As long as the majority wants it this way, it stays.

Power to the people, right?
Btw, when was that national referendum held? Feels like a lot of people missed it because they didn't even know it was happening.

brisknomad13 said:Just because someone messed up doesn't really prove anything. It's an elective, so people don't hold them to the same standard.
Personally, I'm way more bothered when kids can't even write a basic essay in English class or struggle with simple math after years of studying the core subjects.
Not to mention some teachers who show up to their certification exams and struggle to write a decent essay themselves...😁
And then they're out here logging notes in the digital gradebook...🤣

Look, it's legal and it's fine. As long as the majority wants it this way, it stays.

It’s like when a whole room goes silent because nobody knows the answer, and then one person finally blurts something out; everyone jumps for joy and accepts it as truth simply because the tension was broken, not because they actually verified the facts.

Sure, there is a legal basis for it.

Hmm, interesting take. But I don't think that logic applies to something like a legally sanctioned abortion, does it? You really are in a league of your own when it comes to that kind of narrow-mindedness.

wanderingbadger44 said:It’s like when a whole room goes silent because nobody knows the answer, and then one person finally blurts something out; everyone jumps for joy and accepts it as truth simply because the tension was broken, not because they actually verified the facts.

Sure, there is a legal basis for it.

Hmm, interesting take. But I don't think that logic applies to something like a legally sanctioned abortion, does it? You really are in a league of your own when it comes to that kind of narrow-mindedness.

In an abortion, you're ending a life—at least according to medical embryology, which states human development starts at conception. Adding religious education for those who want it doesn't result in anyone dying. You can't even compare them in terms of values. Even if we look at both with extreme bias, objectively speaking: abortion involves the death of an embryo by a woman's choice, whereas the Law from '78—which wasn't even decided by a referendum—just exists. It couldn't have been a referendum because we were under a totalitarian regime back then.

Both issues could end up before the Supreme Court.

Atheist groups have spent years trying to challenge the constitutionality of the Vatican Treaty or push for referendums, but nothing moves because they don't have the backing.
The liberal administration is on its way out; if they didn't want it to happen, who else could stop them?

Looks like the abortion law will be headed to the Supreme Court soon.

We'll see how things play out. Either way, Nikola Jokić says nobody's touching religious ed. 😁

If you actually want to fight for your values, maybe try learning from the pros.

wanderingbadger44 said:It’s like when a whole room goes silent because nobody knows the answer, and then one person finally blurts something out; everyone jumps for joy and accepts it as truth simply because the tension was broken, not because they actually verified the facts.

Sure, there is a legal basis for it.

Hmm, interesting take. But I don't think that logic applies to something like a legally sanctioned abortion, does it? You really are in a league of your own when it comes to that kind of narrow-mindedness.

You're hilarious. 🤣 Too bad it doesn't actually help your point.
Bread and circuses.

An argument
Quincy:

It’s fine, there’s a legal basis for it.

looks like
isn't quite cutting it anymore.

brisknomad13 said:You're hilarious. 🤣 Too bad it doesn't actually help your point.
Bread and circuses.

There’s something genuinely intimidating about you, though I suspect you don't find that unsettling—if anything, you probably find it quite empowering, almost like a soldier marching under their colors...

It seems like you’ve run out of ground to stand on, so you’ve resorted to calling me funny while trying to sidestep the fact that I actually met you on your own terms by using your favorite logic: legality.

You argue that religious studies gets special treatment in schools simply because it’s baked into the law.

By that same logic, abortion is a woman's right just because it’s codified in the statutes.

Well, look at that—it turns out we aren't nearly as committed to the rule of law as we claimed to be. ☕

Rachel Jones8 said:An argument
Quincy:

It’s fine, there’s a legal basis for it.

looks like
isn't quite cutting it anymore.

We don't even need to talk about the law.
We could just look at how many kids actually sign up for religion classes as an elective.

Calling it "social pressure" feels pretty out of touch, especially nowadays.

And talking about being "forced" into religious sacraments? Please. Today's youth are actually pretty conservative. They're basically the ones preaching faith back to their parents and older generations.

The latest polls show exactly that. Even across Europe, people are leaning back toward traditional values.

Now we just need to dive into the whole history of communism and totalitarianism. My mom and all ten of her brothers and sisters went through religious education and church studies under those same totalitarian regimes, and not once were they ever targeted because of their faith.

Regarding what constitutes being vulgar or inappropriate... It’s honestly vulgar to try and frame repression by the majority as "free will," especially when you're fully aware of the corrupt laws that underpin it. Beyond just being vulgar, it completely ignores the commandment of love handed down by the true bearer of Christian values.

Sometimes, a person just needs to live out that faith—to show empathy and compassion—without trying to force it on everyone else.

wanderingbadger44 said:There’s something genuinely intimidating about you, though I suspect you don't find that unsettling—if anything, you probably find it quite empowering, almost like a soldier marching under their colors...

It seems like you’ve run out of ground to stand on, so you’ve resorted to calling me funny while trying to sidestep the fact that I actually met you on your own terms by using your favorite logic: legality.

You argue that religious studies gets special treatment in schools simply because it’s baked into the law.

By that same logic, abortion is a woman's right just because it’s codified in the statutes.

Well, look at that—it turns out we aren't nearly as committed to the rule of law as we claimed to be. ☕

I'm not questioning if abortion is legal—I already pointed out it’s been legal since '78.

I'm talking about the philosophical and moral side of things, which is my lane, just like everyone else has theirs. Legality isn't the issue, even if laws can change.

Comparing religious classes to abortion is a reach. You can't compare the two when one involves the end of an embryo's life, making the moral weight totally different.

They actually dive deep into all these moral dilemmas in religion class, so don't hold your breath thinking those kids won't learn anything...
Keep dreaming.......

wanderingbadger44 said:When it comes to religious education in schools, it really boils down to a matter of principle. I can say with total sincerity that kids aren't actually gaining any real substance from these classes. For instance, they were claiming today that the first thing you do on Easter morning is attend Mass—and this was a seventh grader in middle school. 😬 It’s just how they approach all the other topics in the curriculum, too, whether the information is useful or completely off base.

The core issue here is purely one of fairness: it simply isn't right for one subject to be granted such privileged status and special treatment over everything else.

...after spending a grueling 12 years studying American English... there’s clearly way more effort put into language arts than into religion throughout our entire schooling.

If "quality of education" is the metric we're using, then we might as well scrap the entire school system entirely, not just religious studies.

Religion isn't inherently privileged. We spend all our time fighting hate and discrimination at every level, fighting for the right to be different—but the second it involves Christian diversity, this self-proclaimed "tolerant" crowd starts acting up.

brisknomad13 said:I'm not questioning if abortion is legal—I already pointed out it’s been legal since '78.

I'm talking about the philosophical and moral side of things, which is my lane, just like everyone else has theirs. Legality isn't the issue, even if laws can change.

Comparing religious classes to abortion is a reach. You can't compare the two when one involves the end of an embryo's life, making the moral weight totally different.

They actually dive deep into all these moral dilemmas in religion class, so don't hold your breath thinking those kids won't learn anything...
Keep dreaming.......

They learn just enough to ensure that even after twelve years of Sunday school and claiming to be devout believers, they still feel the need to push for abortion bans, simply because the moral compass they developed in those classrooms isn't quite strong enough to guide them without the government stepping in to enforce it, right? 🙂

If they truly internalized those teachings and lived out their faith authentically, there wouldn't even be a need to debate abortion laws in the first place. It’s like saying you need a sign to tell you not to walk off a cliff when you can already see the drop; if eighty-four percent of people were actually living by those values, the legal necessity for such restrictions would essentially vanish.

brisknomad13 said:We don't even need to talk about the law.
We could just look at how many kids actually sign up for religion classes as an elective.

Calling it "social pressure" feels pretty out of touch, especially nowadays.

And talking about being "forced" into religious sacraments? Please. Today's youth are actually pretty conservative. They're basically the ones preaching faith back to their parents and older generations.

The latest polls show exactly that. Even across Europe, people are leaning back toward traditional values.

🤣
Yeah, sure, if it’s inconvenient, then suddenly we don't have to.

@MajaMama
...it happens all the time on these threads.
Maybe a believer could actually understand this from their own perspective.
But when it doesn't work out, it just doesn't work out... stubbornly, blindly... there's just no sense of altruism or loving your neighbor here (at least, not from what I can see).

@wanderingbadger44
Alright, alright...
You've hit the nail on the head... why bother with the law if they won't follow it themselves?🙂
And why defend others who clearly feel differently and should be allowed to make their own choices based on their own values?
Where does that urge even come from?

Jacob Lewis5 said:...after spending a grueling 12 years studying American English... there’s clearly way more effort put into language arts than into religion throughout our entire schooling.

If "quality of education" is the metric we're using, then we might as well scrap the entire school system entirely, not just religious studies.

Religion isn't inherently privileged. We spend all our time fighting hate and discrimination at every level, fighting for the right to be different—but the second it involves Christian diversity, this self-proclaimed "tolerant" crowd starts acting up.

Mickey Mouse, I think pride has gotten the better of you a bit, leading you to compare a core academic subject to religious studies. Pride is really that first and most difficult sin that serves as the root for all the other mortal sins we face. You should probably do some soul-searching before you head to confession this season. Go in peace. 🙂

Rachel Jones8 said:🤣
Yeah, sure, if it’s inconvenient, then suddenly we don't have to.

@MajaMama
...it happens all the time on these threads.
Maybe a believer could actually understand this from their own perspective.
But when it doesn't work out, it just doesn't work out... stubbornly, blindly... there's just no sense of altruism or loving your neighbor here (at least, not from what I can see).

@wanderingbadger44
Alright, alright...
You've hit the nail on the head... why bother with the law if they won't follow it themselves?🙂
And why defend others who clearly feel differently and should be allowed to make their own choices based on their own values?
Where does that urge even come from?

Since when did we run out of love and altruism?

wanderingbadger44 said:Mickey Mouse, I think pride has gotten the better of you a bit, leading you to compare a core academic subject to religious studies. Pride is really that first and most difficult sin that serves as the root for all the other mortal sins we face. You should probably do some soul-searching before you head to confession this season. Go in peace. 🙂

So, you claim kids learn absolutely nothing in religion class, then I point out that they don't learn much in other subjects either, and suddenly I'm the one being arrogant?

This is just a personal attack at this point. It's a total dead end.

Jacob Lewis5 said:So, you claim kids learn absolutely nothing in religion class, then I point out that they don't learn much in other subjects either, and suddenly I'm the one being arrogant?

This is just a personal attack at this point. It's a total dead end.

Sure, I maintain that religion class just isn't in the same category as science or art, so trying to weigh them on the same scale feels a bit misplaced. Beyond the issues we've already touched on, what else is bothering you? 😁

We need to be fighting against our basest instincts and raw passions, not against being different.

Minorities and outsiders have always been easy targets in every culture and every corner of the map throughout history.
I’ve never heard of a conflict between religious and non-religious kids—sure, it could happen, but the root cause wouldn't be the religion itself. People, seriously, just learn to live with differences, and teach your kids to embrace them.

wanderingbadger44 said:Yeah, I'm saying you can't compare religion class to other subjects because it isn't science or art. Comparing it to them is just pure arrogance. What's your deal, besides all those issues we've already touched on?

Since when did we start comparing religion class to other subjects? You claim that kids learn absolutely nothing in religion class—but I'm pointing out that they don't learn anything in other classes either...
And then, after all that, you heroically pivot to attacking me, calling me arrogant, bringing up my "problems" you think you see, and dragging art and science into it. In the spirit of tolerance, liberalism, and progress, you're just insulting me to avoid a debate you're clearly losing.

wanderingbadger44 said:They learn just enough to ensure that even after twelve years of Sunday school and claiming to be devout believers, they still feel the need to push for abortion bans, simply because the moral compass they developed in those classrooms isn't quite strong enough to guide them without the government stepping in to enforce it, right? 🙂

If they truly internalized those teachings and lived out their faith authentically, there wouldn't even be a need to debate abortion laws in the first place. It’s like saying you need a sign to tell you not to walk off a cliff when you can already see the drop; if eighty-four percent of people were actually living by those values, the legal necessity for such restrictions would essentially vanish.

So basically, it's pretty depressing that women who call themselves believers would consciously choose to end an embryo's life. And yeah, that's a mortal sin.

Nobody's arguing that. The Church does everything it can to help those women mend their relationship with God and their community, especially now with the focus on reconciliation through confession.

Religious education won't ever back down from Jesus's ideals, regardless of how much people stumble morally.
Bottom line: in terms of the command "not to kill," abortion is a heavy sin for the woman, but also for the guy pushing her toward it.

Jacob Lewis5 said:We need to be fighting against our basest instincts and raw passions, not against being different.

Minorities and outsiders have always been easy targets in every culture and every corner of the map throughout history.
I’ve never heard of a conflict between religious and non-religious kids—sure, it could happen, but the root cause wouldn't be the religion itself. People, seriously, just learn to live with differences, and teach your kids to embrace them.

Since when did we start comparing religion class to other subjects? You claim that kids learn absolutely nothing in religion class—but I'm pointing out that they don't learn anything in other classes either...
And then, after all that, you heroically pivot to attacking me, calling me arrogant, bringing up my "problems" you think you see, and dragging art and science into it. In the spirit of tolerance, liberalism, and progress, you're just insulting me to avoid a debate you're clearly losing.

Solid message. 😁

wanderingbadger44 said:Sure, I maintain that religion class just isn't in the same category as science or art, so trying to weigh them on the same scale feels a bit misplaced. Beyond the issues we've already touched on, what else is bothering you? 😁

Fair point—you can't really put religion in the same box as math or history. Sure, it’s technically on the school schedule, but it goes way deeper than that. Its whole purpose is about connecting people to the Lord—students, parents, teachers, and the whole church community all in one go.

It’s got this depth that’s way more powerful than any individual's attempt to toss aside the human spirit and its specific Christian search for meaning.

Obviously, history shows us that totalitarian systems will always try to force out whatever they don't like, but when it comes to faith, that’s a much tougher nut to crack. It's practically impossible because we're talking about an existential reality, not just some textbook curriculum.

(The critics who actually get this realize they're biting off way more than they can chew)